Author Topic: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle  (Read 1509 times)

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Offline GoingMyWay

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TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« on: September 14, 2018, 10:09 AM »
I've finally gotten back to doing some woodworking versus just cooking and taking pictures of food  ;).

Yesterday I bought a 5'x5' sheet of 3/4" baltic birch plywood.  I had it cut into roughly 3' and 2' pieces so it could fit into the back of the car to take home.

I was attempting to rip down a 10" x 5' piece of the plywood using my TS55 with a the blade that came with the saw.  I was using a brand new 75" rail that I had just cut the splinterguard prior to making my cut.

As you can see in the pictures the two end sections of the cut is pretty much right at 10", but the middle of the rip is something like 1/32" wider than either end.

285033-0
285035-1
285037-2

I initially made my cut using the edge that was the cut with the panel saw from the store as my reference.  I was thinking that maybe, somehow their saw was off so I made another 10" rip using the factory edge.  This time it looks to be almost 1/8" wider in the middle.

285039-3
285041-4
285043-5

I may actually be reversing which scenario resulted in the 1/8" difference, but in either case the middle of the cut does seem to be wider than either end.  Any ideas what could be causing this?

Thanks!
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Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 191
Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2018, 10:18 AM »
Off topic but who did you buy it from? I need to get some myself

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 567
Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2018, 10:21 AM »
I got it from Harwoods in the Rough out in Manassas.  It was $62.54 with tax.  I had previously bought a small piece of baltic birch from Woodcraft, but that was $50 for less than half a sheet.

I believe Tart Lumber in Sterling sells the baltic birch for closer to $50 before tax.
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Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1184
Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2018, 10:28 AM »
Well, don't rely on the factory edge or the panel saw to be straight.  Second, do you have a reference straight edge you can put along the raised profile on the track to check for straightness?  Make sure  the gibs are adjusted snug so the saw can't be moved sideways.  Even if that is properly done, you can introduce variations by shifting your grip or how you apply pressure to the handle, so try to remain consistent throughout the cut to minimize variations.
-Raj

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 191
Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2018, 12:13 PM »
I got it from Harwoods in the Rough out in Manassas.  It was $62.54 with tax.  I had previously bought a small piece of baltic birch from Woodcraft, but that was $50 for less than half a sheet.

I believe Tart Lumber in Sterling sells the baltic birch for closer to $50 before tax.

Thanks. The last sheet I bought was from Colonial Hardwood near the Costco in Springfield. It was somewhere around $60.

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 567
Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2018, 12:31 PM »
Well, don't rely on the factory edge or the panel saw to be straight.  Second, do you have a reference straight edge you can put along the raised profile on the track to check for straightness?  Make sure  the gibs are adjusted snug so the saw can't be moved sideways.  Even if that is properly done, you can introduce variations by shifting your grip or how you apply pressure to the handle, so try to remain consistent throughout the cut to minimize variations.

I forgot I should have probably trimmed off maybe 3/8" from either edge.  I'm just trying to make a clamp rack to hang on the wall so it actually doesn't matter if the cuts are even or square.

I have a 12" and 24" veritas straight edge, but they're rather short compared to a 75" track.  I also have a 30" stabila level, but I don't know that a level is quite the same thing as a straight edge.

I had said that the 75" track is "new" but it actually came with the reconditioned TS75 that I got from festoolrecon.com, so I guess the track could conceivably have been used also.  I did make sure that the saw base was tight to the track with no movement.  I also clamped the track to the plywood at both ends when I made my cut.  Hmm it could have been how I was pushing the saw - I admittedly did sort of speed up the push a little bit since it's just 3/4" sheet material.

I suppose I could retest with my TS75, but I'd really like to try to keep the remaining plywood in as large a piece as possible for a future project.

I believe Tart Lumber in Sterling sells the baltic birch for closer to $50 before tax.

Thanks. The last sheet I bought was from Colonial Hardwood near the Costco in Springfield. It was somewhere around $60.

I just double checked the voicemail that Tart Lumber left me when I asked for a quote a month or 2 ago.  They charge $58.29 before tax for the 3/4" 5'x5' baltic birch, so I guess that's about the average going price.  On a side note, they quoted me a $30 delivery charge to Fairfax.  Hardwoods in the Rough quoted $50 to deliver to Fairfax.  I sometimes wish I had a truck as I have no way of getting full size 4'x8' sheet goods home.  If I had to pay for delivery I'd want to buy plenty of sheets so I wouldn't run the risk of needing to reorder and pay a delivery fee again.
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Offline RKA

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Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2018, 01:19 PM »
Using the level is fine to verify that the extrusion is indeed straight.  Even new extrusions have been reported to be somewhat wonky (I haven't experienced that myself).

As for the delivery price, there is another way to look at it.  Factor in a delivery 4-5 times a year.  Compare that to the insurance and maintenance of the truck (assume you bought something used where you could resell and recoup your initial outlay).  Even with a monthly delivery you still come out ahead.  I've used this justification myself and either rent or have HD deliver once a year.  My closest lumber yard delivers only during business hours, which doesn't work for me, that's where I miss the truck.  And sometimes I feel like taking a trip to a not-so-local hardwood dealer, not knowing if I will find something interesting.  It would be nice to have the ability to drag home whatever catches my eye. 
-Raj

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 567
Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2018, 01:55 PM »
Oh I forgot I also have a cheap 4' level from home depot as well.

I was only very light heartedly yearning for a truck.  I think delivery is much more economical all the way around (I'm just kinda cheap when it comes to paying for shipping.  Amazon Prime has made me believe I should try to avoid paying shipping whenever possible).  I had also thought about renting a van or truck, but the hassle of putting more gas in and returning the truck comes out to almost as much as the delivery fee.  I'm also not strong enough or don't have long enough arms to pick up a 4'x8' sheet by myself so it would be more convenient to just have it delivered to my garage.
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Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2018, 04:22 AM »
Did you have enough support under the sheets so they didn't flex/bog down in the middle when you were running the track saw?

I usually run parallel support for long cuts along the cut line unless the sheets are small and then I cross brace them and make sure there is no flex at either end or in the middle before critical cuts.

It's either that or maybe if your tracksaw was not laterally adjusted to the track with them adjustment knobs so you had some play from side to side gouging out a wee bit more as you went along and could not keep parallel with the track with the baseplate due to lateral shift.
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Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3617
Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2018, 08:26 AM »
I got it from Harwoods in the Rough out in Manassas.  It was $62.54 with tax.  I had previously bought a small piece of baltic birch from Woodcraft, but that was $50 for less than half a sheet.

I believe Tart Lumber in Sterling sells the baltic birch for closer to $50 before tax.

@GoingMyWay, I bought Baltic birch from Tart in 2010 at ~$107/sheet (4' x 8').  You might want to look very carefully at Garnica plywood at Hardwoods in the Rough.  It's very nice stuff with no voids, and a bunch less expensive than Baltic birch.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 08:28 AM by Sparktrician »
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 567
Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2018, 09:23 AM »
Did you have enough support under the sheets so they didn't flex/bog down in the middle when you were running the track saw?

I usually run parallel support for long cuts along the cut line unless the sheets are small and then I cross brace them and make sure there is no flex at either end or in the middle before critical cuts.

It's either that or maybe if your tracksaw was not laterally adjusted to the track with them adjustment knobs so you had some play from side to side gouging out a wee bit more as you went along and could not keep parallel with the track with the baseplate due to lateral shift.

I was cutting on a piece of 2'x4' MDF.  The first cut was fully supported by the MDF (with the exception of the ends that were overhanging by ~6 on either side), but the second cut I made was actually skewed a bit on the MDF that maybe half or 3/4 of the end of the cut was not supported at all.  That could definitely be part of the problem that I hadn't considered at all - though the end of the cut still measured close to 10".

The track adjustment knobs were tight so there wasn't any play or wiggle on the track.

I got it from Harwoods in the Rough out in Manassas.  It was $62.54 with tax.  I had previously bought a small piece of baltic birch from Woodcraft, but that was $50 for less than half a sheet.

I believe Tart Lumber in Sterling sells the baltic birch for closer to $50 before tax.

@GoingMyWay, I bought Baltic birch from Tart in 2010 at ~$107/sheet (4' x 8').  You might want to look very carefully at Garnica plywood at Hardwoods in the Rough.  It's very nice stuff with no voids, and a bunch less expensive than Baltic birch.

Tart Lumber said they only have 5'x5' sheets of baltic birch now.  I wish I had known to look at the Garnica plywood when I was there.  Do you know about how much that goes for?  It's a 4'x8' sheet I assume?
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Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3617
Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2018, 07:08 PM »
I got it from Harwoods in the Rough out in Manassas.  It was $62.54 with tax.  I had previously bought a small piece of baltic birch from Woodcraft, but that was $50 for less than half a sheet.

I believe Tart Lumber in Sterling sells the baltic birch for closer to $50 before tax.

@GoingMyWay, I bought Baltic birch from Tart in 2010 at ~$107/sheet (4' x 8').  You might want to look very carefully at Garnica plywood at Hardwoods in the Rough.  It's very nice stuff with no voids, and a bunch less expensive than Baltic birch.

Tart Lumber said they only have 5'x5' sheets of baltic birch now.  I wish I had known to look at the Garnica plywood when I was there.  Do you know about how much that goes for?  It's a 4'x8' sheet I assume?

When I ordered the 4' x 8' Baltic birch, @GoingMyWay, it was a special order; it was not in stock.  I don't know the current pricing for Garnica.  It does come in 4' x 8' sheets. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 191
Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2018, 08:39 PM »
Hardwoods in the rough no longer carries Garnica

Offline Sparktrician

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Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2018, 09:40 AM »
Hardwoods in the rough no longer carries Garnica

Bummer!!!  A&M Supply in Upper Marlboro is apparently the only supplier in the area now.  They also have an outlet in Henrico, VA. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2018, 11:36 AM »
@Sparktrician , thanks for the source.

Peter

Offline Gregor

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Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2018, 11:46 AM »
You can check straightness of the rail by putting it with the splinterguard edge against the edge of the piece that was just under it at the cut (flipping it over or turning it) - any error will double, should it not be straight you'll see it.

Offline RKA

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Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2018, 12:59 PM »
@GoingMyWay  Any luck sorting this out?
-Raj

Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2018, 01:23 PM »
"...I was cutting on a piece of 2'x4' MDF.  The first cut was fully supported by the MDF (with the exception of the ends that were overhanging by ~6 on either side), but the second cut I made was actually skewed a bit on the MDF that maybe half or 3/4 of the end of the cut was not supported at all.  That could definitely be part of the problem that I hadn't considered at all - though the end of the cut still measured close to 10"...."

Ok, that isn't a large board - but was the MDF supported? And if so, by what? Laying out MDF between two sawhorses will not make them all that flat - especially running a track saw with a little pressure on. Unless supported length wise too they will deflect some during cutting. When I cut sensitive material like Corian/Staron I need to ensure the whole length is fully supported and straight with no flex before committing to the final cut.

"...The track adjustment knobs were tight so there wasn't any play or wiggle on the track...."


Ok, that's not it then.



Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 567
Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2018, 03:17 PM »
@GoingMyWay  Any luck sorting this out?

I hadn't had a chance to test the straightness of the rail yet. I won't be able to do that until next weekend at the earliest.

"...I was cutting on a piece of 2'x4' MDF.  The first cut was fully supported by the MDF (with the exception of the ends that were overhanging by ~6 on either side), but the second cut I made was actually skewed a bit on the MDF that maybe half or 3/4 of the end of the cut was not supported at all.  That could definitely be part of the problem that I hadn't considered at all - though the end of the cut still measured close to 10"...."

Ok, that isn't a large board - but was the MDF supported? And if so, by what? Laying out MDF between two sawhorses will not make them all that flat - especially running a track saw with a little pressure on. Unless supported length wise too they will deflect some during cutting. When I cut sensitive material like Corian/Staron I need to ensure the whole length is fully supported and straight with no flex before committing to the final cut.

"...The track adjustment knobs were tight so there wasn't any play or wiggle on the track...."


Ok, that's not it then.





The MDF was sitting on top of 4 bench dogs on my Kreg table. I'd think that was supported enough. I didn't think I was pushing down that hard.

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Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3617
Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2018, 08:05 AM »
I hadn't had a chance to test the straightness of the rail yet. I won't be able to do that until next weekend at the earliest.

Let me know if you need a second rail to compare to.   [smile]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline ElectricFeet

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Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2018, 09:46 AM »
I was attempting to rip down a 10" x 5' piece ... but the middle of the rip is something like 1/32" wider than either end.

I initially made my cut using the edge that was the cut [in] the store ... [then] I made another 10" rip using the factory edge.  This time it looks to be almost 1/8" wider in the middle...

My gut tells me that the material was bowed (in storage) or is bowing (while cutting), but more data is needed:

First, let me get this straight (no pun intended). You have tried to cut 2 x 10" pieces from either side of a single piece and they are both wider than the desired 10" in the middle.

Question: How wide is the remaining centre piece -- at the ends and centre? That is, the centre piece you left behind when you cut off 10" from either side.

If EITHER (1) the edges of that centre piece are parallel (it is of equal width all the way along) OR (2) the width increases uniformly from end to end, then you're cutting straight and the factory or the shop (or both) are messed up.

If on the other hand, they too are bowed, then something's happening in the cutting or the material itself is bowed.

Offline jobsworth

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Re: TS55 Cuts Wider in the Middle
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2018, 10:48 AM »
Ok coming in this thread late, my suggestions are

1) remove factory edge first.
2) verify you cutting technique, using 2 hands on the saw even pressure through the cut.
3) make sure you ply is supported completely under the ply. Some people use foam insulation
4) Clamp the ply make sure it isn't moving on you (prolly isn't but thought id throw it out there)

Hope tis helps