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Author Topic: Mortising Jig for Festool OF1400 *Router Modification*  (Read 38248 times)
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Pete Pedisich

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« on: September 06, 2008, 08:27 PM »

Hi,

It's been a long time since I've posted or been able to do some woodworking and this was a project waiting on my bench for 11 months.

This is a homemade mortising jig I designed and built for loose-tenon joinery. Previously I had used a Beadlock jig, but I always wanted to try router made mortises.
I studied plans from Workbench, Fine WW, Popular WW, etc...book articles by Pat Warner, Gary Rogowski, Tage Frid.
I designed it in CAD and had the curved outrigger support arms cut on the CNC at work, but all other parts I made at home. It's mostly 24mm and 27mm multi-ply (Russian birch ply) with a mounting plate of 3/4" mdf. The extrusions are 8020 10 series. I just have to figue out how to mount the edge guide to the linear motion bearings (UHMW). I'll add sliding stops in the t-slots. The reason for no top plate and a outrigger support is to not lose any depth capcity like other jigs, here the wood goes right up to the router base to enable deep mortises.

Capacity is 3.5" thickness, 8.5" width and length varies if it's a rail or stile.

I'd really appreciate any comments and criticisms.

Thanks for looking,

Pete

Picture Album of Mortising Jig!


* MT-O1A REAR.jpg (59.22 KB, 640x480 - viewed 1798 times.)

* MT-01A FR LEFT.jpg (66.28 KB, 640x480 - viewed 1559 times.)

* MT-01A REAR DETAIL.jpg (46.08 KB, 640x480 - viewed 1063 times.)

* MT-01A REAR RTR.jpg (66.65 KB, 640x480 - viewed 1687 times.)

* MT-01A RT FR.jpg (60.96 KB, 640x480 - viewed 1643 times.)
* MT-01B.skp (650.54 KB - downloaded 125 times.)
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 10:04 PM by Pete Pedisich » Logged
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Pete Pedisich

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« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2008, 08:31 PM »

more images...


* MT-01A UNDER V.jpg (45.35 KB, 480x640 - viewed 1030 times.)

* MT-01A UNDER.jpg (57.37 KB, 640x480 - viewed 965 times.)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 08:28 PM by Pete Pedisich » Logged
neilc

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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2008, 10:34 PM »

Wow Pete.  That's really nicely done.  It looks like you're using the edge guide only on one side to adjust the mortise location.  Are there any stop pins for length?

neil
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Pete Pedisich

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« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2008, 09:53 AM »

neil, yes I'll be adding adjustable stops in the t-slots.
The edge guide will be fastened to linear bearings on the rear extrusion allowing lateral motion.
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MickMcD

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« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2008, 01:43 PM »

Would be Nice if Images would  ENLARGE when you tried to View !!!!!
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Dovetail65

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« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2008, 02:14 PM »

They are enlarging for me. Refresh your browser ther was an inital problem that was fixed and you must be looking at the older page.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2008, 02:15 PM by nickao » Logged

The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.
Pete Pedisich

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« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2008, 08:58 PM »

UPDATE!

After testing it out, i realized a clamp was needed when mortising the end of a rail. It really helped.

Some new pics attached.

I welcome all comments and criticisms, especially from those of you with experience with mortising jigs.

It's no Domino, but since I already had the OF 1400, it made sense.

Thanks for looking.


* MT-01A REVa 04.jpg (70.31 KB, 576x768 - viewed 924 times.)

* MT-01A REVa 05.jpg (89.93 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 949 times.)

* MT-01A REVa 06.jpg (121.52 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 993 times.)

* MT-01A REVa 07.jpg (117.64 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 1043 times.)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 08:41 PM by Pete Pedisich » Logged
Overtime

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« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2008, 12:35 AM »

Wow thats nice Pete.  Cool

It might not be a Domino but it is basically a Leigh FMT !

Seeing that you have the edge guide securely riding in the extrusion, if stability becomes or is an issue you could add another edge guide or homemade version for the other side. Might require longer rods.

 Any way, that's beautiful.

If you add extrusions for the top - like MFS style, you can make the tenons, just like the Leigh MFT.  Wink

Leigh makes some nice HSS and Carbide bits that would work well with your setup. The HSS quality is very good.

I got a feeling your already working on that.
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Patrick
Pete Pedisich

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« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2008, 10:40 AM »

Patrick,

Your MFS idea is great, actually I had not thought of that. I would have to add a spacer to the jig mounting surface to keep the stock further out so the bit could route all four sides.

Thanks for the input!

Pete
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Pete Pedisich

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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2008, 11:16 PM »

Hello,

...forgot to show this pic of the linear motion bearing - machined out of UMHW like material and is captured in the t-slot.

I drilled holes in the plastic sub-fences on the edge guide, out at the ends, and there is no play - very smooth and stable.

These are available from 8020.net - I used 10 series aluminum extrusions because 1/4" carriage bolts and 1/4-20 brass toilet bolts fit in the slots.

I'm looking into whether Domino Sipo tenons would work well with a 10mm mortising bit made by Festool or CMT.
At first I thought large tenons were necessary for a storm door, but after seeing the French doors made by a FOG member with 10x25x50mm dominos I think multiple smaller loose tenons might be just as good.

Anyone use domino tenons with router cut mortises? is it a good fit?

Thanks for any help!

Pete


* linear motion.jpg (72.08 KB, 800x600 - viewed 557 times.)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 08:31 PM by Pete Pedisich » Logged
tvogel400

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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2008, 01:22 PM »

Nice looking jig-

In the end all you are talking about is loose tenon joinery, been around since the router I would suspect.

Why don't you make your own tenons, that way you can size your stock to fit your hole(the traditional method btw).

Your jig is so nice  I would suspect you have enough time in it to start approaching domino numbers, I mean if I had put like 15-20 hours into it I would have bought the domino already.

Personally I am dying to "Have a need for the domino" but I haven't yet, a dowel or bisket has sufficed so far.

There is also the fact that I love to rout mortices, it's funny kind just one of those things.

Tom
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Pete Pedisich

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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2008, 08:19 PM »

...I would suspect you have enough time in it to start approaching domino numbers, I mean if I had put like 15-20 hours into it I would have bought the domino already...

Tom


Tom, you got that right! If I had to pay myself for the time, I could have had a domino. Even though I only spent 3-1/2 shop hours on it, I spent many times that researching, sketching and drawing it.
But I enjoy designing and making jigs, helps me unwind from work.
And since I don't do this for a living, i'm a ways off from justifying a Domino, so it remains in my dreams, instead of my shop.
Thanks for looking.

pete
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David Werkheiser

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« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2008, 08:28 AM »

Pete,
Well done jig! I like the use of linear bearings.
The 80-20 extrusions are nice to work with . I have made a F/F assemembly table and a haunched miter jig for beaded face frames with the extrusions.
tvogle400, I have the Domino and like it alot but, it will-not make large mortices. I reacently made a combi. screen/storm door using dominos, and am concerned about racking over the years.
David Werkheiser
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Pete Pedisich

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« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2008, 09:58 PM »

Ok, not sure if anyone was following this, but I tried making domino sized mortises with my homemade mortising jig for my OF1400, and the setup is just too time-consuming.

I guess I expected this to be the case, but sometimes I need to try something for myself to realize my idea was no good.

If you want Domino mortises, get a DOMINO! Embarrassed

That's what I've learned from this experience.

They line up great and fit well, but I'd go crazy with so many mortises to set up and route. It makes more sense with fewer, larger mortises. So I'll be making my own tenon stock for this project, and using the Dominos for another.

Hey, at least I still get to use my OF1400, smoothest router I've ever used Grin

-pete
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 09:37 AM by Pete Pedisich » Logged
Dave Ronyak

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« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2008, 11:28 PM »

Pete,
Well done jig! I like the use of linear bearings.
The 80-20 extrusions are nice to work with . I have made a F/F assemembly table and a haunched miter jig for beaded face frames with the extrusions.
tvogle400, I have the Domino and like it alot but, it will-not make large mortices. I reacently made a combi. screen/storm door using dominos, and am concerned about racking over the years.
David Werkheiser

I have a Domino and an OF 1400 and an MFS.   In my pre-Festool past, I made mortices using either my router and a homemade jig designed for the particular job, or my Shopsmith in Drill Press mode together with a small machinest's vice to provide X and Y movement of the workpiece relative to the router bit. The Domino is very fast in any operation, especially if multiple mortices are involved in the project.  And you can easily make a larger mortise with the Domino.  For a wider mortise than can be done in a single plunge stroke, simply reposition the Domino machine to the left or right of the original plunge location.  Because you know precisely where the centerline of the plunge will occur and also the width of the mortice cut and thickness of the mortice cut (which corresponds to the diameter of the selected cutter), you can create whatever mortice width you desire rather easily and with good repeatablility.  You can also machine mortices for tenons of greater thickness than that of a single mortice plunge cut by repositioning the fence of the Domino, again with a high degree of precision and repeatability.  However, you will have to clean up the ends of the mortice with a chisel.  Thus, to me the main limitation of morticing with the Domino compared to a router-based jig is the maximum depth of the mortice.

Dave R.
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vkumar

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« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2008, 12:11 AM »

Dave do you use the MFS in conjunction with the Domino?  Can you go into some detail or better still do you have pictures?
TIA.
Vijay
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Dave Ronyak

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« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2008, 12:39 AM »

Dave do you use the MFS in conjunction with the Domino?  Can you go into some detail or better still do you have pictures?
TIA.
Vijay

Vijay,

No, I have not attempted to use the Domino machine with the MFS.   I cannot think of a reason why I would want to do that, except maybe to machine a line of mortices spaced further away from an edge than the range of the Domino fence, but for that I simply clamp any straight edged piece of scrap as a guide for the base of the Domino.  The MFS can be used to guide a router to machine mortices [slots] of various sizes, but not so deep as is possible with Pete's jig.

Sorry, I don't have any photos of oversized mortices cut with the Domino.

Dave R.
Dave R.
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vkumar

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« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2008, 01:17 AM »

Dave,

I thought somehow you were using the MFS to index the dominos.  The domino part and stacking them I understand.

Nevermind.

Vijay.
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Pete Pedisich

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« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2008, 10:35 PM »

OK, I worked out a good system for using stops and marks for routing multiple domino-sized mortises, and it takes more time to unclamp an reclamp the new piece of wood than it takes to route the mortise!

I have to say, the Festool 8mm HSS spiral bit is sharp! After cutting 22 mortises with it in white pine, it can still puncture my finger with the tip of the spiral, and the cut is clean.

Eventually I'll get a Domino...but for now this is fun! although very limiting...but since I don't make a living doing this, who cares?

You can see that I made the mortise a bit wider (1-2mm) than the 8x22x40mm domino, I could have tightened it up a little.
I used the dominos in the 3/4" joints in the door, and made larger, deeper ones for the 5/4 frame.
Now I have to glue up the storm door, I'll post pics when I'm done.

Thanks for your input, everyone.

-pete


* 007.jpg (73.14 KB, 800x600 - viewed 612 times.)

* 013.jpg (74.55 KB, 800x600 - viewed 450 times.)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 08:45 PM by Pete Pedisich » Logged
greg mann

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« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2008, 10:24 AM »

Dave do you use the MFS in conjunction with the Domino?  Can you go into some detail or better still do you have pictures?
TIA.
Vijay

Vijay,

No, I have not attempted to use the Domino machine with the MFS.   I cannot think of a reason why I would want to do that, except maybe to machine a line of mortices spaced further away from an edge than the range of the Domino fence, but for that I simply clamp any straight edged piece of scrap as a guide for the base of the Domino.  The MFS can be used to guide a router to machine mortices [slots] of various sizes, but not so deep as is possible with Pete's jig.

Sorry, I don't have any photos of oversized mortices cut with the Domino.

Dave R.
Dave R.



Dave/Vijay

You guys just solved a problem for me. I am making a removable auxilalry top for a dresser. It will be a changing station for a grandchild. The changing pad is smaller than the dresser top so I am making a base with edging that will slip over the dresser top. Attached to the base will be another frame to house the changing pad, this frame will be somewhat like a deep picture frame and since it will be smaller than the base my plan is to domino it to the plywood base. The challenge is to get dominos to mate perfectly in four sides. I felt it best to build the frame first so that the miters are perfect and then do the domino work through careful marking on the base. I think will use an MFS snugged up around the frame as a reference template to place the dominos in the appropriate location in the base, similarly to using a template to route for a router table insert. 
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Greg Mann
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Pete Pedisich

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« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2008, 08:56 PM »

some pics of the larger mortises...and a sketch of the door. The back side is rabetted for the glass and screen panels.

update: forgot to mention, with a spriral upcut bit like I used for the domino mortises (Festool 8mm HSS spiral) the dust collection on the OF1400 was complete. As in 100%
For the larger mortises I used an Amana staggertooth and I had to blow out the bottom of the mortise with comp. air.


* storm door front.jpg (37.83 KB, 390x743 - viewed 309 times.)

* storm door rear.jpg (67.6 KB, 701x743 - viewed 263 times.)

* 005.jpg (55.29 KB, 800x600 - viewed 417 times.)

* 006.jpg (62.7 KB, 800x600 - viewed 365 times.)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 08:46 PM by Pete Pedisich » Logged
Dave Ronyak

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« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2008, 12:35 AM »

Nice work and design, Pete!!

How did you make the lengthwise scoring marks (presumably to prevent hydro-locking due to glue on the tenons) on your shopmade tenons? 


Greg,

An MFS should work for your intended purpose.   Just be certain to keep correctly in mind which is the reference surface as you machine the mortices in the top and in the frame of the attachment.  I'm assuming you will be using the Domino with its fence at 90 degrees to plunge into the top, but I am not clear how you intend to reference the Domino when machining the mortices in the frame of the attachment.  If I understand you project (and I may not), I would try to reference off the bottom of the Domino, placing it against the sides of the MFS to cut the mortices in the top and if possible clamping the frame of the attachment, one side at a time, flat against the top of your MFT (or any flat reference work table) and again using the Domino base referenced against the top of the MFT.  I use this approach frequently and get very good alignment height or thickness wise.  I use simple pencil mark to locate the side to side position of Domino mortices.

Dave R.
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greg mann

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« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2008, 11:45 AM »

You have it right, Dave. I will doing this tomorrow and will let you know how it works. Since I will be cutting for Dominos in all four sides it will not be necessary to use the narrow settings as the frame will be constrained in both directions. This will make it easier to place the cuts without anxiety.
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Greg Mann
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Pete Pedisich

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« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2008, 10:40 PM »

How did you make the lengthwise scoring marks (presumably to prevent hydro-locking due to glue on the tenons) on your shopmade tenons? 

Dave,

Thanks, I made the grooves with a point cutting roundover bit.
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Dave Ronyak

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« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2008, 11:44 PM »

Thanks, Pete.  I'm still buying my (beechwood) dominos for basic joinery, but am thinking of making some of contrasting colors of woods for some drawers.

Dave R.
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Matthew deBeaupre

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« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2009, 04:39 PM »

From an product design perspective the jig is very mature in form development. The curve treatment on the arms is very resolved. Thats some pricey material to use for it but it looks killer.

A+
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Eduard M

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« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2009, 10:32 PM »

Hi  Man this is just cool Jig good job I was just wondering if it would be posebole to get a blue print or all dimmentions for this jig? Huh?
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bruegf

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« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2009, 08:04 AM »

Impressive!!!  Very nicely done Pete.

Fred
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Fred
Pete Pedisich

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« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2009, 10:24 PM »

Musatoved,

I'll get the dims this weekend, also it's not neccessary to use the alumnium extrusions with linear motion bearings, as a setup like Gary Rogowskis (from FWW) will work. The edge guide rides in a wood track.
This jig can be made with $15-20 worth of mdf instead of the 27mm multiply I used.

Pete

ps- just added images with dims, hope it helps


* MT-01B.jpg (86.21 KB, 790x697 - viewed 613 times.)

* MT-01B 2.jpg (82.28 KB, 823x658 - viewed 458 times.)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 09:07 PM by Pete Pedisich » Logged
Pete Pedisich

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« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2009, 12:44 AM »

Hi, I've had some questions about the hardware, so I've taken some more detail shots for those who may want to make one.
Feel free to PM me with any dimensional questions.
I'm also considering making and selling a cnc cut parts kit, but the appeal is probably not enough as it's only for the Festool OF1400.
But I'd like to get a feel for if anyone is interested, you can reply or PM me.

Thanks for looking.

-pete


* 021.jpg (70.71 KB, 800x600 - viewed 600 times.)

* 022.jpg (42.48 KB, 576x768 - viewed 547 times.)

* 025.jpg (62.59 KB, 800x600 - viewed 493 times.)

* 026.jpg (76.49 KB, 800x600 - viewed 541 times.)
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