Author Topic: 80/20 design help  (Read 37189 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
80/20 design help
« on: December 02, 2013, 12:09 PM »
OK I've got a stupid idea for incorporating an INCRA fence with a custom work table (thinking along the lines of a Ron Paulk design). I want the fence to be removable, attached to the side of the table on a height adjustable post (thinking some sort of linear bearing). Height adjustment is to accommodate material thickness. The fence will be used to butt my track saw rail up to so I can use the precision of the incra fence for repeatable rip cuts. It's highly possible that I am stupid and this is a dumb idea, but in my tiny mind it works great. I have no experience using 80/20 or even how to go abouts ordering the right components. Feel free to help and/or yell at me. I'll try and get a rough sketch going.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Richard/RMW

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 1689
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2013, 12:35 PM »
Ghost,

You might try to adapt this concept (the guide pins) to the 80/20 to get the height adjustment:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/rip-dogs-redux/msg251255/#msg251255

If you can post a sketch of your concept it would be easier to comment in more detail.

As far as ordering the components, I just found out that my local mfg. rep's minimum is only $40. Rankin Automation in Broomall PA. They tell me I can send them a sketch or drawing, they will convert to CAD and send it back with costs.

Up til now I just ordered everything I could from 80/20's ebay store by adding it to the shopping cart, then using "Commit To Buy" and requesting a total. When requesting the total I ask them to add in any additional items that they did not have listed on ebay, you can download their catalog at 8020.net. They send an invoice with everything including freight, pay via PayPal and I have the stuff in about a week.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2013, 01:26 PM »
OK I've got a stupid idea for incorporating an INCRA fence with a custom work table (thinking along the lines of a Ron Paulk design). I want the fence to be removable, attached to the side of the table on a height adjustable post (thinking some sort of linear bearing). Height adjustment is to accommodate material thickness. The fence will be used to butt my track saw rail up to so I can use the precision of the incra fence for repeatable rip cuts. It's highly possible that I am stupid and this is a dumb idea, but in my tiny mind it works great. I have no experience using 80/20 or even how to go abouts ordering the right components. Feel free to help and/or yell at me. I'll try and get a rough sketch going.
I'm doing something similar with a Incra LS 32"
 but I'm going to be using a MFT style table top & having the Incra LS positioner mounted on a AL 1/4" plate  & the bolting some Qwas rail Dogs ( 4 ) to the bottom of the AL mounting plate , So I could drop the LS anywhere on the MFT style table top  . I haven't got the process of Mfgering the plate yet as my 32" LS should be here this week . I do have the plate stock in hand from 80/20 & I am waiting on shipping for Festool MFT top to use as a template to cut a larger MFT style top .
 as for any material depth I would use a sample of the same size meterial either under the AL plate or just under the track rail either or both , I guess once I get the top made & AL plate mounted to the LS I  then would test which would work the best .
Mike

Offline CarolinaNomad

  • Posts: 305
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2013, 02:01 PM »
I used CPI Automation in Toronto.  I don't think 8020 on ebay will send to Canada.  For 1.5"x3"x145" cost 109.3097 a piece and 1.5"x1.5"x145" cost 59.9863.  You can design it like you are using 2x4, its just you need brackets to connect the pieces.  The below picture is one 145" piece with four brackets, two bags of M5 screws, two bags of washers (that's not the correct terminology, but it sounded better than the thinga ma jig) and 10 smaller brackets for the mdf top.

96586-0

The above photo is the sides of a table top.  I'm building the mftc using the 8020 as my sides to the table top.  Everything else will be made of plywood.  I was able to assembly the 8020 easily and maintain square at the connections and a flat surface.  Thereby, I can use my sides (8020) as reference surface for when I drill the dog holes on the MDF top.  Also, I can expand it so that it can function similar to Guido Henn's workbench while still maintaining squareness.  I have a sketchup of the drawing, but I can't share it because I purchased the sketchup drawing from TimTool.

Here's a pdf of it.

* mftc-jdl1.pdf (96.47 kB - downloaded 594 times.)

« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 02:17 PM by CarolinaNomad »
Jeff
resides in NAINA

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2013, 02:46 PM »
Nice to know about a Toronto retailer! Some good mods on your MFTC, I have his plans as well.

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2013, 02:49 PM »
what size series of 80/20 is that  NC  ?
I'm wrapping my extended MFT with the 10 series 3  X 1  extrusions
so that I have different options to clamp on the very sides (Vertical ) with the single channel up & I can cross brace the MFT top from below 3" down to keep it rigid .
 that way if I choose I can lower the table surface up to 2"  to expose the side to use as sliding rails with  linear bearings cross from each other  to get a  instant  jig   attachment point .
Mike

Offline CarolinaNomad

  • Posts: 305
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2013, 03:09 PM »
15 series (imperial size).  I wanted 40 series (metric) but they don't stock it as much as the 15 series.  I don't get this country.  I don't care which system they use, but freakin pick one.  Sorry about that.

The fence shown in the sketchup is made out of 8020 using the linear bearings and some 90 degree brackets.  I'm thinking I can make the fence to work very similar to a table saw fence shown on Askthewoodman.com website and maybe some day purchase the TS 75 insert module and add it to the table extension as well as add the router insert for the extension on the other side.

But then again, I might have gone a little crazy with my 8020 addiction when thinking of these add-ons.  I'm hoping that having this flexibility with 8020 will make some economical sense compared to just buying the MFT.

Jeff
resides in NAINA

Offline CarolinaNomad

  • Posts: 305
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2013, 03:18 PM »
I forgot to say, I widened the MFTC design to be just short of 30".  I'm hoping I should be able to move it through most of the exterior doors here.
Jeff
resides in NAINA

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2013, 03:22 PM »
15 series (imperial size).  I wanted 40 series (metric) but they don't stock it as much as the 15 series.  I don't get this country.  I don't care which system they use, but freakin pick one.  Sorry about that.

The fence shown in the sketchup is made out of 8020 using the linear bearings and some 90 degree brackets.  I'm thinking I can make the fence to work very similar to a table saw fence shown on Askthewoodman.com website and maybe some day purchase the TS 75 insert module and add it to the table extension as well as add the router insert for the extension on the other side.

But then again, I might have gone a little crazy with my 8020 addiction when thinking of these add-ons.  I'm hoping that having this flexibility with 8020 will make some economical sense compared to just buying the MFT.
Best part of the 80/20 stuff is that it's always usable in something else
my MFT is gonna be 4 x 8' with a drop in router table at the end
 still waiting on parts & pieces .
 does the 80/20 Ebay site ship to CA ?
 I've saved a wad on the connectors buying from there as well the AL plate stock  
80/20 it's addicting stuff  [embarassed]
Mike

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2013, 05:22 PM »
OK here's the crumbiest sketchup mock up as basic as can be.....

96596-0

No dimensions beyond the 4x8 table top. Some sort of extrusion for the lengths of the table, appropriate for a linear bearing attachment for the extrusion post. I'm thinking I'll have to fabricate some sort of plate to attach the LS positioner to this post, which shouldn't be an issue. I wan't to jig this plate so the fence system will hinge up and out of the way, again I think I can work that without much sweat. So here's what I need, an appropriate post to work with a linear bearing, a linear bearing that will lock into position once set, and appropriate extrusions for the rails of the table. With which I hope to be able to slide the whole unit and lock in place.
Reasons for wanting this mount along the edge is I want as much of the table as is possible for material support.

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2013, 05:28 PM »
Also here's a link to the Sketchup 3d warehouse for an incra LS positioner, in case anyone is interested.

INCRA

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2013, 05:43 PM »
OK here's the crumbiest sketchup mock up as basic as can be.....

(Attachment Link)

No dimensions beyond the 4x8 table top. Some sort of extrusion for the lengths of the table, appropriate for a linear bearing attachment for the extrusion post. I'm thinking I'll have to fabricate some sort of plate to attach the LS positioner to this post, which shouldn't be an issue. I wan't to jig this plate so the fence system will hinge up and out of the way, again I think I can work that without much sweat. So here's what I need, an appropriate post to work with a linear bearing, a linear bearing that will lock into position once set, and appropriate extrusions for the rails of the table. With which I hope to be able to slide the whole unit and lock in place.
Reasons for wanting this mount along the edge is I want as much of the table as is possible for material support.
Sweet  !
 I see where your going on this .
 80/20 have bearings that have a brake on them
 I'd run a rail extrusion down the tops side edge so the post can be positioned any where  a dual rail if you will
 side ways R/L  movement on tops edge
 & the post as a  up / down movement
you wouldn't need a bearing on the side to side that could secured with allan bolts on the rail
 but a rail with more precision up/down a bearing & brake would be useful
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 05:54 PM by Slappy »
Mike

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2013, 05:46 PM »
a bearing like this Note brake hole there is one on each of three sides 
Mike

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2013, 06:00 PM »
ya thats the piece. I don't think I' need to put a bearing for side to side travel, just use the the t-tracks on the extrusions along the side of the table. Concerns, is there any/much twisting of an extrusion when running in the linear bearing? The fence would have to remain parallel to the table length and perpendicular to the table top.

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2013, 06:22 PM »
ya thats the piece. I don't think I' need to put a bearing for side to side travel, just use the the t-tracks on the extrusions along the side of the table. Concerns, is there any/much twisting of an extrusion when running in the linear bearing? The fence would have to remain parallel to the table length and perpendicular to the table top.
use a double wide extrusion & a dbb wide bearing  even my 1" x 1" 80/20 extrusions  is stout stuff  go up the 15 or 40 series it really stout
 that's a 10 series single bearing with wings  in the pix  the other versions have only a lip that goes up only on one side thou
 they also make a ddb long bearing as well & a dbb wide /dbb long also .
 the catalog is Very complicated to use  but they do have 80/20 software for doing that sheckup  but I haven't gotten that deep into that yet
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 06:27 PM by Slappy »
Mike

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2013, 06:32 PM »
10 series dbb long without the bearing pads , cheaper to buy this way & then add the pads & shims
 P/N on this is 6726
And the parts needed
    6790 - Standard Bearing Pads, Qty 6.
    OR
    6490 - Brake Kit Ready Bearing Pads (Use this pad instead of the standard 6790 pad if a brake hole is needed), Qty 1 per brake hole. 

    3625 - #8 x 3/8" SS Standard Bearing Pad Screw, Qty 12 (two screws per pad).
    6780 - Shim Pack, Qty 2 (one per three pads
Mike

Offline CarolinaNomad

  • Posts: 305
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2013, 07:02 PM »
Is this what your talking about, but using 1530's?

* IncraLSpositioneron8020.pdf (176.6 kB - downloaded 424 times.)

I can't upload or attach file to 3d warehouse or this post, send me a PM if you want the sketchup drawing?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 07:08 PM by CarolinaNomad »
Jeff
resides in NAINA

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2013, 07:11 PM »
Is this what your talking about, but using 1530's?

(Attachment Link)

I can't upload or attach file to 3d warehouse or this post, send me a PM if you want the sketchup drawing?
Nice !
Mike

Offline CarolinaNomad

  • Posts: 305
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2013, 07:25 PM »
Yeah, but I don't see the benefit of having the ability to slide the incra fence.

Unless Ghostfist wants to have the TS 75 insert and the router insert back to back.  Then I do believe we have something here!  The ability to have one fence to service two inserts.
Jeff
resides in NAINA

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2013, 08:38 PM »
I know, hard to tell with the crudest sketchup ever. My thinking is that I will use the LS positioner to butt my track up against when doing rip cuts. For say an 8' sheet It would be optimal, I figures, to have the fence positioned on the center of the track (4'). If for instance I want to do some rips on a 4' long piece I'd want the fence centered at 2' from the end of the table or,the center of the work piece.
  Parallel guide systems for tracksaws on the market attach to the track itself, I don't really like this idea nor do I want to adjust two separate pieces in order to get a parallel cut. I want one movement, like a table saw fence, with the accuracy the incra system provides.
 no inserts....well maybe a router insert....but I have a separate router table going right now.

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2013, 09:12 PM »
Yeah, but I don't see the benefit of having the ability to slide the incra fence.

Unless Ghostfist wants to have the TS 75 insert and the router insert back to back.  Then I do believe we have something here!  The ability to have one fence to service two inserts.
that is what I was thinking , at least IMO to have flexibility to Use the the Incra LS for different things , hence the idea to mount on plate as then I drop any where on the table . but If your doing production work a slider .
BUT actually by have the Incra on plate you do all of these ideas  , I've got some very short rail dogs that are just a deep as a MFT is  so the amount of jigs is endless
limited just my imagination .
 Ghostfist has the right idea to be able move the LS where it is needed for quick easy repeatability mere seconds to change up a rip distance instead of messing with a parallel guide & resetting the two parts & then having to double check for accuracy .     
Mike

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2013, 10:20 PM »
Sorry, clarifying on the up and down motion is just to accommodate different material thickness as the fence will have to move on top of the material for cuts

Offline Sean KS

  • Posts: 90
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2013, 03:37 AM »
This should help. The wood keeps the knobs accessible so you don't rack your fingers on the bearing. Given the weight load I would use two brakes on a single side of the bearing.

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2013, 09:34 AM »
that is pretty much EXACTLY what I'm looking for! Do you know the part numbers, including the bracket?

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 1689
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2013, 10:37 AM »
Assuming that is 15 series (1.5") then this should be the linear bearing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8020-T-Slot-High-Cycle-Linear-Bearing-15-S-6834-N-/370137789765?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item562dee7545

Look under the fractional extrusion category for the t-slot and under the joining plates category for the top L bracket.

Same parts are available for the 10 or 25 series, basically 1" profiles if you want something lighter.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2013, 11:36 AM »
Assuming that is 15 series (1.5") then this should be the linear bearing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8020-T-Slot-High-Cycle-Linear-Bearing-15-S-6834-N-/370137789765?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item562dee7545

Look under the fractional extrusion category for the t-slot and under the joining plates category for the top L bracket.

Same parts are available for the 10 or 25 series, basically 1" profiles if you want something lighter.

RMW
those ( that's the dbb by dbb  bearing I was talking about )  & the other ones that I posted pix of come up on auction all the time as a bearing body only for a fraction of that $82.oo they want for that one , then you just get the bearing pad  kit , I've gotten about 6 of the various different bearings in the  last 2 months , I was paying about $8.50 for a bearing body .
Mike

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2013, 03:10 PM »
This should help. The wood keeps the knobs accessible so you don't rack your fingers on the bearing. Given the weight load I would use two brakes on a single side of the bearing.
is that the "10" series ?  I'm NOW gonna build that jig exactly the same be great to just be able to slide that onto a table & then slide it back off . gonna get that short track as well  so that I can just hang that whole set-up on the wall & use freely when needed
 Nice Job on the wood trim !!  Where did you get those knobs ???
Mike

Offline CarolinaNomad

  • Posts: 305
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2013, 05:32 PM »
To get the part numbers, download the catalog from www.8020.net.  It may take awhile to figure out, but it quite easy.  Just look for 15 series for Imperial or 40 series for metric.
Jeff
resides in NAINA

Offline Sean KS

  • Posts: 90
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2013, 10:47 PM »
The knobs are JW Winco

http://jwwinco.com/products/section8/gn5335/index.html these ones are 5/16-18 to connect to the incra track


http://jwwinco.com/products/section8/tkrsk/index.html these are 1/4-20 to connect to 15 series 80/20

You can order direct from them or find them on amazon

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: 80/20 design help
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2013, 11:54 PM »
The knobs are JW Winco

http://jwwinco.com/products/section8/gn5335/index.html these ones are 5/16-18 to connect to the incra track


http://jwwinco.com/products/section8/tkrsk/index.html these are 1/4-20 to connect to 15 series 80/20

You can order direct from them or find them on amazon
Many Many ThanX for those links I've been looking for those type of Knobs for my table build
Mike