Author Topic: CMS router table fence improvements ( micro adjust using crown stop) "updated"  (Read 29777 times)

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Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1619
Re: Elbow to D 36 Connection
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2016, 04:52 PM »
Can someone please post a closeup photo of the 36mm hose connection to the elbow...

It's actually all detailed in another post.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/festool-36mm-right-angle-hose-adapter/

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Offline ChipMonk

  • Posts: 27
Thanks for the link Garry, much appreciated.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1536
Onieda http://www.oneida-air.com/  look under Dust Deputy accessories they sell anti staic fittings, including 90 degree and hose.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 12:14 PM by rst »

Offline ChipMonk

  • Posts: 27
Thanks rst, that would be great if the size would fit.

Can someone please measure the OD an ID of the CMS fence dust port.

The dimensions of the Oneida DD elbow (AXD600103) I have are:
52mm ID / 58mm OD on the straight wider end
44mm ID / 49-54mm OD on the tapered end.

The standard 36mm hose end (487721 - D 36 DM-AS Reducing Sleeve) fits perfectly inside the elbow's tapered end.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1536
The fittings will work, they are the same ones used with the Dust Deputy, just leave the original Festool end on.

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1422
Great idea, however I have the CMS/VL and I don't think it will work.

I am so frustrated with the CMS fence I could scream.   Ya it's a dead horse topic but I gotta vent.   The product website says it's "New".   Hmmmmm  it looks just like my 2 year old version.

Considering all the innovative, exacting products Festool makes, one would think they could make a router fence that doesn't take 30 minutes to set up for 5 minutes of routing......  Like it did today.  Sorry for the logic attack.   [crying]

Looks like I'm going to bite the bullet and take the Incra LS route.  Heck a new version of the CMS fence would probably be twice as much.
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline vogel61

  • Posts: 17
Love your mod Benjamin.
I wondered if anyone had anything simpler. Obviously it wouldn't perform as well as this one but perhaps it would not require some many parts or alts to the fence. I always feel the Festool system but the "Festool Force" is stronger in others when it comes to using what we have to simplify how we do.
I always wondered if the angle stop could simply push the fence forward evenly to set the fence in position. In a previous post of mine I use it on the "cutter" side of the fence to align it but can see the possibility of placing it behind the fence to position it and then tighten the screws to set it.
Any ideas before I order the micro adjust and start drilling?
Scott
Hi,

Maybe this is simpler and non-invasive to the CMS construction :

https://tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffestoolownersgroup.com%2Findex.php?topic=40875.0&share_tid=40875&share_fid=11638&share_type=t
CMS router table and Rockler micro adjustment

Richard

Gesendet von meinem SM-N910F mit Tapatalk


Online Kev

  • Posts: 7638
Great idea, however I have the CMS/VL and I don't think it will work.

I am so frustrated with the CMS fence I could scream.   Ya it's a dead horse topic but I gotta vent.   The product website says it's "New".   Hmmmmm  it looks just like my 2 year old version.

Considering all the innovative, exacting products Festool makes, one would think they could make a router fence that doesn't take 30 minutes to set up for 5 minutes of routing......  Like it did today.  Sorry for the logic attack.   [crying]

Looks like I'm going to bite the bullet and take the Incra LS route.  Heck a new version of the CMS fence would probably be twice as much.

@iamnothim I would have thought you'd have gone with the Precision Plate for the Incra years ago .. did you have a change of heart?

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1422

Hi,

Maybe this is simpler and non-invasive to the CMS construction :

https://tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffestoolownersgroup.com%2Findex.php?topic=40875.0&share_tid=40875&share_fid=11638&share_type=t
CMS router table and Rockler micro adjustment

Richard

Gesendet von meinem SM-N910F mit Tapatalk
Hi Richard,
That's a creative good solution but I'm an all or nothing guy.
Luke
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1422
I would have thought you'd have gone with the Precision Plate for the Incra years ago .. did you have a change of heart?
Kev,
Ya.  It's all about what's in the "Leather"   I was searching yesterday for that "thingy" and couldn't find it.   Thanks for posting the name.  (Precision Plate)    Man I want one real bad.  It's crazy how sloppy the CMS fence is.  Very Un-Festool.

Here's the link to Brian's thread....  @bkharmon  Incra fence mounting plate for the MFT

Luke
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 10:49 AM by iamnothim »
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5159
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Decided to revive this thread rather than start another. Gives those who have not seen this thread an opportunity to see it and keeps the improvements in one place.

Wanted a way to adjust the fence without having turn the hand wheel so much. Eventually I will add the micro adjust, just have to figure out how.

Repurposed a couple of the parts from some extra angle heads I had laying around.

Original drilling for WP micro adjust. Never installed it, decided to go a different route. 246673-0

New hole location.246675-1

UHMW tape, creates a glide surface.246677-2

Had to relieve the bar to accept the jamb nut.246679-3

Piece of perforated angle iron to align the struts.246681-4

Installed, I'm going to get a couple of acorn nuts to cover the ends of the threaded rod.246683-5



Tom

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 868
Decided to revive this thread rather than start another. Gives those who have not seen this thread an opportunity to see it and keeps the improvements in one place.

Wanted a way to adjust the fence without having turn the hand wheel so much. Eventually I will add the micro adjust, just have to figure out how.

Repurposed a couple of the parts from some extra angle heads I had laying around.

Original drilling for WP micro adjust. Never installed it, decided to go a different route. (Attachment Link)

New hole location. (Attachment Link)

UHMW tape, creates a glide surface. (Attachment Link)

Had to relieve the bar to accept the jamb nut. (Attachment Link)

Piece of perforated angle iron to align the struts. (Attachment Link)

Installed, I'm going to get a couple of acorn nuts to cover the ends of the threaded rod. (Attachment Link)



Tom

Not owning the CMS GE just yet I've been speculating about the issue with the Fence, I'd thought about something that looks like what you created would be a good solution. And now you've done it. I will give this idea a try in the next few months..

Thanks
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 03:06 AM by PreferrablyWood »
850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline richk

  • Posts: 46
I have the CMS-GE and share the frustration about the fence. Here is the solution I'm working on:

Use a Fastcap Kapex table mount (http://www.fastcap.com/estore/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=54411) to attach 2 feet of Fastcap Best Fence (http://www.fastcap.com/estore/pc/viewprd.asp?idproduct=42614). Then attach an Incra LS Positioner with a Wonderfence ( http://incra.com/router_table_fences-ls_super_sys.html) to what is effectively an extension of the CMS table. That will be further supported by a Fastcap Upper Hand, which is essentially a collapsible leg.

Don't know for sure how it will work out, but the pieces are on order...

RichK

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 545
As long as you can get the positioner attached somehow and not have to move it you'll be golden. I have the incra rails on my mafell Erika and made a router leaf for it. The micro adjust ability of the fence is so useful for routing and the wonder fence is a great addition also with the split rail for dust collection. You won't be disappointed at all.

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 868
As long as you can get the positioner attached somehow and not have to move it you'll be golden. I have the incra rails on my mafell Erika and made a router leaf for it. The micro adjust ability of the fence is so useful for routing and the wonder fence is a great addition also with the split rail for dust collection. You won't be disappointed at all.

I'm looking at this and it seems to me the CMS GE and the Incra positioner super fence gets a little to bulky, If I need the Incra positioner and it to be portable, I think I would just make my own table for it built from the ground up to be a portable Incra setup..
850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline richk

  • Posts: 46
PreferrablyWood:

It's important to me to be able to break the whole thing down when not in use.

In my approach, the legs come apart and collapse to a small package, easily stowed, and the positioner either pops right off the table extension or the table extension unhooks from the CMS. Either way, the pieces should be easy to hang from a wall, out of the way.

Each of the pieces is designed to work that way so I figured it might be more secure and easier to take apart than what I could come up with. I had a design for a permanent addition to the table, but the Incra positioner makes the whole apparatus too large for my shop area.


Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 868
PreferrablyWood:

It's important to me to be able to break the whole thing down when not in use.

In my approach, the legs come apart and collapse to a small package, easily stowed, and the positioner either pops right off the table extension or the table extension unhooks from the CMS. Either way, the pieces should be easy to hang from a wall, out of the way.

Each of the pieces is designed to work that way so I figured it might be more secure and easier to take apart than what I could come up with. I had a design for a permanent addition to the table, but the Incra positioner makes the whole apparatus too large for my shop area.

I can see the logic then in a fixed location, it's easy to just stow things up out of the way, high on a wall. I'm going to moving to different locations, so I'd be a little concerned about taking the delicate looking Incra position out from place to place. To Bad Festool doesn't meet the need and come up with a more compact fence but with some of the Incra features, perhaps making it work together with the sliding side fence.
850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline cpap

  • Posts: 18
Thank you for the great idea Benjamin! Just finished up setting my CMS with the WP micro adjust. It works amazingly well. Such an improvement.

A few subtle differences in the way I mounted mine:
-I tapped holes in the crown stop so that the bolts thread directly to it.
-I also tapped the back of the fence for the long 6" bolts to attach to.
-I used a 1-1/2" Fernco rubber 90 deg to slip over the back of the fence port and hose end. It's a perfect fit.

For an extra $100 or so, it makes a lot of sense to do this mod.



« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 11:18 PM by cpap »

Offline ILovewood

  • Posts: 6
Just saw your project. Great idea. I have also looked at the Woodpecker micro adjuster. Very versatile.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1536
Great use of the Woodpeckers adjuster and realizing that the crown stop would work for attaching it to the table.  I really need to learn to download and attach pictures...I attached two CMS-VLs together with a section between that I put tee slots in so I could move the Woodpecker in and out and use it on either side.  Again my apologies for the teaser, I've been asked numerous times for pictures, it's just that lack of learning curve time has prevented my sharing.

Offline kieran989

  • Posts: 2
Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #50 on: July 23, 2017, 01:22 AM »
I really love your design.  It's so much cleaner than mine.  FYI, I'm an anal bastard and drilling or doing any surgery to a $1,600 apparatus is just so emotionally hard, but your clean design makes it's really easy.  This is why I attached to the wing of the fence mechanism rather than the body.  The problem with this is that it adds so much more junk to the equation.  I have a degree in architecture and design-wise, you definitely did a better job.  I'm definitely gonna modify my design, adopting many of your ideas, but what I made works for now.

In terms of Neil C's question, I don't think that adding a table saw crank is what he's talking about.  Yes, this will make it physically easier to crank, but I think the rapid adjustment he's taking about is moving it, say, 2 inches without cranking.  What if you add a board with 2 perpendicular slots or 2 perpendicular t-tracks mounted onto the crown molding attachment.  Then mount the Woodpecker Micro Adjust onto the board/t-track with the knobs that came with it.  Now simply loosen the knobs to move it 1 or 2 inches, lock it in place, and then utilize the micro-adjust.

What do you think?



Thx Jon,

I really like the idea but real soon me and a friend have a idea were going to impliment and if it works out the way we think it will I'll post the results

Hi Ben,

Did you ever impliment your other idea?

Offline kieran989

  • Posts: 2
Decided to revive this thread rather than start another. Gives those who have not seen this thread an opportunity to see it and keeps the improvements in one place.

Wanted a way to adjust the fence without having turn the hand wheel so much. Eventually I will add the micro adjust, just have to figure out how.

Repurposed a couple of the parts from some extra angle heads I had laying around.

Original drilling for WP micro adjust. Never installed it, decided to go a different route. (Attachment Link)

New hole location. (Attachment Link)

UHMW tape, creates a glide surface. (Attachment Link)

Had to relieve the bar to accept the jamb nut. (Attachment Link)

Piece of perforated angle iron to align the struts. (Attachment Link)

Installed, I'm going to get a couple of acorn nuts to cover the ends of the threaded rod. (Attachment Link)



Tom

How does the angle heads actually attach to the fence here?

Did you find a way to incorporate the micro adjust?

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5159
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
The arms from the angle head attach to the fence, the head itself does not. The head attaches to the v-grove as it normally would.

I believe so, work keeps getting in the way of working on the solution.

Tom