Author Topic: CMS router table fence improvements ( micro adjust using crown stop) "updated"  (Read 31239 times)

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Offline Benjamin

  • Posts: 171
Just like JohnymanyB  me and a friend wanted to figure out how to improve on his cms fence and add a micro adjust to it,
so this is what we did.

first we wanted to make it very light and simple so we to ordered the Wood pecker micro adjust as it is proportional to the rest of the cms table, rather then the larger possibilities . Next we wanted to be able to install it to the fence in a very short time period or I knew we wouldn't of used it or it would be to bulky to carry around, so we bolted the micro adjust to a festool crown stop . Next was to get around the hose connection at the back of the fence, but a couple weeks ago I figure out you could use a right angle attachment from the new tapered hose that comes with the Midi and attach it to the 36mm hose of the Y connection , and this now makes it possible to push the fence directly from the back of the table.

we next attached bolts to the fence that attached to the micro adjust with two nuts and there you go , a pretty simple micro adjust set up that only takes 10 seconds to attach.

and yes if you were wondering the fence is always perfectly square to the sliding table,  as the micro adjust is aligned so when you attach the fence to it it puts everything in sq. as the double nuts on each rod makes it possible to do fine adjustments.

( PS you need to flip the wood pecker micro adjust up side down as its not on a T track and this will make it sit flat)

"Update"

since this post we made a few changes that I thought some might find interesting.

first I wanted to speed up the movement of the fence so I was able to take the knob off the wood pecker micro adjust and expose a 3/8th threading , so then I purchased a 4" hand wheel from Fastenal and attached it. It now moves very smoothly and much quicker back and forth , but also can be used for micro adjusting .

another thing we did ( which I'm guessing every one else has done by now ) is add a bunch more spacers to the festool knobs that holds the fence down, as I hated having to turn the thing 30 times before it was snug, so now with the added spacers it just turns 3 times and the fence is now snug done. (As I'm not promoting doing this for safety reasons )  but with the crown stop holding the fence in place you barley need to have any knobs at all as it almost doesn't move , but I place just one of them in for extra support.

This comes down to the point of moving the fence really fast to switch out cutters and collets, with just 3 turns of one knob and 3 turns of the crown stop you can move the whole fence right out of the way and when your done place the fence back exactly where it was before, and as mentioned before completely square to the sliding miter gauge, so theres less tinkering with the set up every time you have to change something , which can drive you crazy.

as for the right angle hose connection , the end is 50mm and the port on the fence is probably 45mm on the outside of the aluminum, so i placed a piece of the anti slip track strip around the opening and now the adapter fits nice and snug.

I hope this will be useful to those wanting to improve on there fence, as the table is a dream now that the fence is pleasant to work with.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 11:20 AM by Benjamin »

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Online neilc

  • Posts: 2164
Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2014, 10:34 PM »
That's really a simple but effective approach.

Thanks for sharing the thinking and photos.

One question - effectively with this approach, you have to micro adjust ANY movement in the fence - there is no way as you have designed it to rapid adjust, or does the Woodpecker offer a fast advance option by chance?

neil

Offline Benjamin

  • Posts: 171
Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2014, 10:44 PM »
yes , interesting that you say that, what we ordered today was a crank handle ( similar to what you see on a table or band saw ) so when that comes in we want to attach it to the knob and were hoping this will speed the motion up hugely ,

as the crack is 4" wide so it will move 4X the rate , Cause remember most of a the motion is either moving the fence to switch a cutter or do some adjustment, so the fence really only has to move 3-4" one way or another to be effective .

I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/details/3126310?searchMode=productSearch&zipcode=&filterByStore=&filterByVendingMachine=

Offline jonmannyb

  • Posts: 7
Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2014, 09:28 AM »
I really love your design.  It's so much cleaner than mine.  FYI, I'm an anal bastard and drilling or doing any surgery to a $1,600 apparatus is just so emotionally hard, but your clean design makes it's really easy.  This is why I attached to the wing of the fence mechanism rather than the body.  The problem with this is that it adds so much more junk to the equation.  I have a degree in architecture and design-wise, you definitely did a better job.  I'm definitely gonna modify my design, adopting many of your ideas, but what I made works for now.

In terms of Neil C's question, I don't think that adding a table saw crank is what he's talking about.  Yes, this will make it physically easier to crank, but I think the rapid adjustment he's taking about is moving it, say, 2 inches without cranking.  What if you add a board with 2 perpendicular slots or 2 perpendicular t-tracks mounted onto the crown molding attachment.  Then mount the Woodpecker Micro Adjust onto the board/t-track with the knobs that came with it.  Now simply loosen the knobs to move it 1 or 2 inches, lock it in place, and then utilize the micro-adjust.

What do you think?


Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3357
Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2014, 01:32 PM »
I really like this version.  Where did you find the vacuum elbow? 

- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Online neilc

  • Posts: 2164
Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2014, 03:34 PM »
Jon - yes you read my question correctly, and I like your suggested approach as one way to enable a rapid adjust option.

neil

Offline supimeister

  • Posts: 76
Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2014, 08:51 PM »
I am curious if there is a way to imitate this solution with a cms-vl... I know of the Incra LS solution, but I really like the simplicity of this one as well... Any thoughts?

Offline Benjamin

  • Posts: 171
Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2014, 10:32 PM »
I really love your design.  It's so much cleaner than mine.  FYI, I'm an anal bastard and drilling or doing any surgery to a $1,600 apparatus is just so emotionally hard, but your clean design makes it's really easy.  This is why I attached to the wing of the fence mechanism rather than the body.  The problem with this is that it adds so much more junk to the equation.  I have a degree in architecture and design-wise, you definitely did a better job.  I'm definitely gonna modify my design, adopting many of your ideas, but what I made works for now.

In terms of Neil C's question, I don't think that adding a table saw crank is what he's talking about.  Yes, this will make it physically easier to crank, but I think the rapid adjustment he's taking about is moving it, say, 2 inches without cranking.  What if you add a board with 2 perpendicular slots or 2 perpendicular t-tracks mounted onto the crown molding attachment.  Then mount the Woodpecker Micro Adjust onto the board/t-track with the knobs that came with it.  Now simply loosen the knobs to move it 1 or 2 inches, lock it in place, and then utilize the micro-adjust.

What do you think?



Thx Jon,

I really like the idea but real soon me and a friend have a idea were going to impliment and if it works out the way we think it will I'll post the results
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 10:34 PM by Benjamin »

Offline Benjamin

  • Posts: 171
Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2014, 10:33 PM »
I really like this version.  Where did you find the vacuum elbow?
[/quote

It's actually a 32mm end to the midi

I posted it done the page as ( 36mm right angle adapter )

Check it out

Offline Benjamin

  • Posts: 171
Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2014, 03:49 AM »
I am curious if there is a way to imitate this solution with a cms-vl... I know of the Incra LS solution, but I really like the simplicity of this one as well... Any thoughts?

Yes the VL would probably be easier in the sense that you can use the dog holes of the mft to easily install and keep sq your micro adjust , I would just buy wood peckers micro adjust and try to install it to something like one of theses mounting plates that pop in the mft and then you could use your element clamps knobs to hold it down real fast and securely

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=70864&cat=1,43838,70865
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 11:09 AM by Benjamin »

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2014, 04:07 AM »
Hi Jonathan

A very simple but clever idea - well done. I am sure that there will be many of these being made up very soon.

It appears from your photographs that you have done away with the screw knobs that Festool provide to hold their fence in place. Does your setup hold the fence firmly enough or do you have to use the Festool knobs once the fence is adjusted?

Peter

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3357
Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2014, 08:37 AM »
I really like this version.  Where did you find the vacuum elbow?
[/quote

It's actually a 32mm end to the midi

I posted it done the page as ( 36mm right angle adapter )

Check it out

Excellent idea!  Thanks. 

- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Benjamin

  • Posts: 171
Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2014, 09:17 AM »
Hi Jonathan

A very simple but clever idea - well done. I am sure that there will be many of these being made up very soon.

It appears from your photographs that you have done away with the screw knobs that Festool provide to hold their fence in place. Does your setup hold the fence firmly enough or do you have to use the Festool knobs once the fence is adjusted?

Peter

Hi Peter,

Sorry I just didn't put them in before I took my photo graphs . yes I still use the one knob for extra security ,but you just unscrew it a turn and then you can micro adjust all you want.

Ben
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 11:10 AM by Benjamin »

Offline richk

  • Posts: 46
Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2014, 10:16 AM »
If you want to use the Incra LS positioner instead, you could hang that on the Festool crown stop and connect it to the Festool fence just as you connect using the Woodpeckers micro-adjust...

RichK

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3357
Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2014, 12:43 PM »
I really like this version.  Where did you find the vacuum elbow?
[/quote

It's actually a 32mm end to the midi

I posted it done the page as ( 36mm right angle adapter )

Check it out

Excellent idea!  Thanks.


Just tried the 90° end from my Mini, but it does not make anywhere near a tight fit to the CMS' fence dust port.  Do you have the same issue?  I suspect that I could remedy this with a couple turns of electrical tape if needed. 

- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Benjamin

  • Posts: 171
Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2014, 10:06 PM »
I really like this version.  Where did you find the vacuum elbow?
[/quote

It's actually a 32mm end to the midi

I posted it done the page as ( 36mm right angle adapter )

Check it out

Excellent idea!  Thanks.


Just tried the 90° end from my Mini, but it does not make anywhere near a tight fit to the CMS' fence dust port.  Do you have the same issue?  I suspect that I could remedy this with a couple turns of electrical tape if needed.

yes same issue, as the opening is now 50mm I placed some gasket tape to make it more snug and air tight.

you could always just use the hose with out a end to it, that works as well, ( but not as  sophisticated )



« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 10:11 PM by Benjamin »

Offline Benjamin

  • Posts: 171
Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2014, 11:57 PM »
If you want to use the Incra LS positioner instead, you could hang that on the Festool crown stop and connect it to the Festool fence just as you connect using the Woodpeckers micro-adjust...

RichK

yes I think this could be a good possibility as well.  I just didn't want to have so much length hanging out the back of the table so I choose the wood pecker micro adjust instead for its petit size. Id like to see some one do it and get back to us on how it works.

I also didn't want to spend 4x the amount as the wood pecker

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3357
Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2014, 05:24 PM »
I really like this version.  Where did you find the vacuum elbow?
[/quote

It's actually a 32mm end to the midi

I posted it done the page as ( 36mm right angle adapter )

Check it out

Excellent idea!  Thanks.


Just tried the 90° end from my Mini, but it does not make anywhere near a tight fit to the CMS' fence dust port.  Do you have the same issue?  I suspect that I could remedy this with a couple turns of electrical tape if needed.

yes same issue, as the opening is now 50mm I placed some gasket tape to make it more snug and air tight.

you could always just use the hose with out a end to it, that works as well, ( but not as  sophisticated )

Well, I wasn't too happy with this situation, so I went to my friendly neighborhood auto parts place and had a good chat with my counterman.  He got into the Gates book and found what he thought would work.  Unfortunately, it didn't, so he ordered another.  It worked just about right.  One end fits snugly over the fitting on the CMS' fence and the 36mm hose end fits snugly into the far end.  No clamps are needed.  There is a 30° uptilt right off the fence's port, then a bend to the left which can be cut off if needed.  I may leave it on because it works well in my shop. 

« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 05:28 PM by Sparktrician »
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Benjamin

  • Posts: 171
Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2014, 11:16 PM »
I really like this version.  Where did you find the vacuum elbow?
[/quote

It's actually a 32mm end to the midi

I posted it done the page as ( 36mm right angle adapter )

Check it out

Excellent idea!  Thanks.


Just tried the 90° end from my Mini, but it does not make anywhere near a tight fit to the CMS' fence dust port.  Do you have the same issue?  I suspect that I could remedy this with a couple turns of electrical tape if needed.

yes same issue, as the opening is now 50mm I placed some gasket tape to make it more snug and air tight.

you could always just use the hose with out a end to it, that works as well, ( but not as  sophisticated )

Well, I wasn't too happy with this situation, so I went to my friendly neighborhood auto parts place and had a good chat with my counterman.  He got into the Gates book and found what he thought would work.  Unfortunately, it didn't, so he ordered another.  It worked just about right.  One end fits snugly over the fitting on the CMS' fence and the 36mm hose end fits snugly into the far end.  No clamps are needed.  There is a 30° uptilt right off the fence's port, then a bend to the left which can be cut off if needed.  I may leave it on because it works well in my shop.

pretty cool

Offline jonmannyb

  • Posts: 7
Thanks for the Pics.  This is a really cool and efficient concept.  I'll definitely update my setup using a lot of your concepts.

Thanks again.
Jon

Offline jonmannyb

  • Posts: 7
Hi Benjamin,

I'm actually looking to update my mod to the CMS using a lot of your ideas.  Can you please clarify the whole set up you have with the right angle attachment into the back of the CMS?  I see you have some sort of rubber sleeve over the male end of the back of the
CMS fence.  I went ahead and picked up the "Anti-Static Angle Adaptor (part 456 806)".  I just got it from Amazon and realized that it only fits the 27mm hose and not the 36mm. 

Can you please tell me how you were able to attach the 36mm hose onto this Angle Adaptor, and where I can purchase that rubber looking sleeve that goes over the male end of the CMS fence?   

Offline Benjamin

  • Posts: 171
Hi Jon,

Sorry to tell you , you need to get the new tapered hose right angle end, as it is wide enough to fit around the 36mm hose snugly.

part #499907

and the stuff around the cms fence is the non skid tape that is used on the tracks. any weather stripping could be used as well.

best of luck.

Offline jonmannyb

  • Posts: 7
So sorry to bug you on this Benjamin and thanks so much for the prompt response. I just checked for that 499907 part and I can't seem to locate it in the 2014 catalog. I'm also Googling it and nothing is showing up. Is this a part I have to get directly from festool and just double checking if that's the correct part number.

Thanks so much again.

Offline Benjamin

  • Posts: 171
no that part number is the one Shane ( site moderator here ) gave me when I asked him for it.

I got my dealer to order me 2 of them and they got them in for me.

no problem , you can ask me any questions you'd like.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 02:31 PM by Benjamin »

Offline jonmannyb

  • Posts: 7
Thanks so much for all your help.  I contacted Festool USA and they said they can't get that part.  I Google that part and it only comes up for European websites.  No problem.  I'll used the 456 806 part I have and make a short 27mm hose section with the 27mm nozzle that will slip perfectly into the 36mm nozzle.  This is similar to the solution many use by using a small section of the 27mm hose with 2 nozzle ends where one goes to the tool and the other slips into the 36mm nozzle so that they don't have to constantly switch out the whole hose when working between, say, a TS and a sander.

Thanks again. 

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 868
This is a really nice thread on making a compact solution to the fence adjust problems mentioned about the router module for CMS. I'm putting the CMS back on my list because of it, will likely get the CMS GE + OF2200 kit offered here in Germany and Denmark oh and have to budget for the Woodpecker micro adjust fence.. The Accesories systainer for the OF2200 and som bits, shall be say I'll be suited out by 2018?
850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline Benjamin

  • Posts: 171
Thanks so much for all your help.  I contacted Festool USA and they said they can't get that part.  I Google that part and it only comes up for European websites.  No problem.  I'll used the 456 806 part I have and make a short 27mm hose section with the 27mm nozzle that will slip perfectly into the 36mm nozzle.  This is similar to the solution many use by using a small section of the 27mm hose with 2 nozzle ends where one goes to the tool and the other slips into the 36mm nozzle so that they don't have to constantly switch out the whole hose when working between, say, a TS and a sander.

Thanks again.

strange ..... I just got 3 of them?

any ways best of luck

Offline Charles Sharpe

  • Posts: 2
Sorry for delay in saying thank you for all the info but Ive not been very well.

Charles.
just like JohnymanyB  me and a friend wanted to figure out how to improve on his cms fence and add a micro adjust to it,
so this is what we did.

first we wanted to make it very light and simple so we to ordered the Wood pecker micro adjust as it is proportional to the rest of the cms table, rather then the larger possibilities . Next we wanted to be able to install it to the fence in a very short time period or I knew we wouldn't of used it or it would be to bulky to carry around, so we bolted the micro adjust to a festool crown stop . Next was to get around the hose connection at the back of the fence, but a couple weeks ago I figure out you could use a right angle attachment from the new tapered hose that comes with the Midi and attach it to the 36mm hose of the Y connection , and this now makes it possible to push the fence directly from the back of the table.

we next attached bolts to the fence that attached to the micro adjust with two nuts and there you go , a pretty simple micro adjust set up that only takes 10 seconds to attach.

and yes if you were wondering the fence is always perfectly square to the sliding table,  as the micro adjust is aligned so when you attach the fence to it it puts everything in sq. as the double nuts on each rod makes it possible to do fine adjustments.

( PS you need to flip the wood pecker micro adjust up side down as its not on a T track and this will make it sit flat)

"Update"

since this post we made a few changes that I thought some might find interesting.

first I wanted to speed up the movement of the fence so I was able to take the knob off the wood pecker micro adjust and expose a 3/8th threading , so then I purchased a 4" hand wheel from Fastenal and attached it. It now moves very smoothly and much quicker back and forth , but also can be used for micro adjusting .

another thing we did ( which I'm guessing every one else has done by now ) is add a bunch more spacers to the festool knobs that holds the fence down, as I hated having to turn the thing 30 times before it was snug, so now with the added spacers it just turns 3 times and the fence is now snug done. (As I'm not promoting doing this for safety reasons )  but with the crown stop holding the fence in place you barley need to have any knobs at all as it almost doesn't move , but I place just one of them in for extra support.

This comes down to the point of moving the fence really fast to switch out cutters and collets, with just 3 turns of one knob and 3 turns of the crown stop you can move the whole fence right out of the way and when your done place the fence back exactly where it was before, and as mentioned before completely square to the sliding miter gauge, so theres less tinkering with the set up every time you have to change something , which can drive you crazy.

as for the right angle hose connection , the end is 50mm and the port on the fence is probably 45mm on the outside of the aluminum, so i placed a piece of the anti slip track strip around the opening and now the adapter fits nice and snug.

I hope this will be useful to those wanting to improve on there fence, as the table is a dream now that the fence is pleasant to work with.

Offline ChipMonk

  • Posts: 27
Elbow to D 36 Connection
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2016, 03:40 PM »
Thanks for sharing your CMS mod Benjamin.

Can someone please post a closeup photo of the 36mm hose connection to the elbow (Angle piece D 32/27 DAG/90°-AS Part Number 499907) or explain how the elbow connects to a D 36 hose.

According to Festool catalogs and websites the 499907 fits only 27mm hose.
https://www.festool.com/Products/Accessories/Pages/Detail.aspx?pid=499907&name=Hose-sleeves-D-32-27-DAG-90-AS

Offline SMJoinery

  • Posts: 528
Love your mod Benjamin.
I wondered if anyone had anything simpler. Obviously it wouldn't perform as well as this one but perhaps it would not require some many parts or alts to the fence. I always feel the Festool system but the "Festool Force" is stronger in others when it comes to using what we have to simplify how we do.
I always wondered if the angle stop could simply push the fence forward evenly to set the fence in position. In a previous post of mine I use it on the "cutter" side of the fence to align it but can see the possibility of placing it behind the fence to position it and then tighten the screws to set it.
Any ideas before I order the micro adjust and start drilling?
Scott

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1639
Re: Elbow to D 36 Connection
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2016, 04:52 PM »
Can someone please post a closeup photo of the 36mm hose connection to the elbow...

It's actually all detailed in another post.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/festool-36mm-right-angle-hose-adapter/

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline ChipMonk

  • Posts: 27
Thanks for the link Garry, much appreciated.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1569
Onieda http://www.oneida-air.com/  look under Dust Deputy accessories they sell anti staic fittings, including 90 degree and hose.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 12:14 PM by rst »

Offline ChipMonk

  • Posts: 27
Thanks rst, that would be great if the size would fit.

Can someone please measure the OD an ID of the CMS fence dust port.

The dimensions of the Oneida DD elbow (AXD600103) I have are:
52mm ID / 58mm OD on the straight wider end
44mm ID / 49-54mm OD on the tapered end.

The standard 36mm hose end (487721 - D 36 DM-AS Reducing Sleeve) fits perfectly inside the elbow's tapered end.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1569
The fittings will work, they are the same ones used with the Dust Deputy, just leave the original Festool end on.

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1423
Great idea, however I have the CMS/VL and I don't think it will work.

I am so frustrated with the CMS fence I could scream.   Ya it's a dead horse topic but I gotta vent.   The product website says it's "New".   Hmmmmm  it looks just like my 2 year old version.

Considering all the innovative, exacting products Festool makes, one would think they could make a router fence that doesn't take 30 minutes to set up for 5 minutes of routing......  Like it did today.  Sorry for the logic attack.   [crying]

Looks like I'm going to bite the bullet and take the Incra LS route.  Heck a new version of the CMS fence would probably be twice as much.
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline vogel61

  • Posts: 17
Love your mod Benjamin.
I wondered if anyone had anything simpler. Obviously it wouldn't perform as well as this one but perhaps it would not require some many parts or alts to the fence. I always feel the Festool system but the "Festool Force" is stronger in others when it comes to using what we have to simplify how we do.
I always wondered if the angle stop could simply push the fence forward evenly to set the fence in position. In a previous post of mine I use it on the "cutter" side of the fence to align it but can see the possibility of placing it behind the fence to position it and then tighten the screws to set it.
Any ideas before I order the micro adjust and start drilling?
Scott
Hi,

Maybe this is simpler and non-invasive to the CMS construction :

https://tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffestoolownersgroup.com%2Findex.php?topic=40875.0&share_tid=40875&share_fid=11638&share_type=t
CMS router table and Rockler micro adjustment

Richard

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Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Great idea, however I have the CMS/VL and I don't think it will work.

I am so frustrated with the CMS fence I could scream.   Ya it's a dead horse topic but I gotta vent.   The product website says it's "New".   Hmmmmm  it looks just like my 2 year old version.

Considering all the innovative, exacting products Festool makes, one would think they could make a router fence that doesn't take 30 minutes to set up for 5 minutes of routing......  Like it did today.  Sorry for the logic attack.   [crying]

Looks like I'm going to bite the bullet and take the Incra LS route.  Heck a new version of the CMS fence would probably be twice as much.

@iamnothim I would have thought you'd have gone with the Precision Plate for the Incra years ago .. did you have a change of heart?

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1423

Hi,

Maybe this is simpler and non-invasive to the CMS construction :

https://tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffestoolownersgroup.com%2Findex.php?topic=40875.0&share_tid=40875&share_fid=11638&share_type=t
CMS router table and Rockler micro adjustment

Richard

Gesendet von meinem SM-N910F mit Tapatalk
Hi Richard,
That's a creative good solution but I'm an all or nothing guy.
Luke
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1423
I would have thought you'd have gone with the Precision Plate for the Incra years ago .. did you have a change of heart?
Kev,
Ya.  It's all about what's in the "Leather"   I was searching yesterday for that "thingy" and couldn't find it.   Thanks for posting the name.  (Precision Plate)    Man I want one real bad.  It's crazy how sloppy the CMS fence is.  Very Un-Festool.

Here's the link to Brian's thread....  @bkharmon  Incra fence mounting plate for the MFT

Luke
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 10:49 AM by iamnothim »
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5308
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Decided to revive this thread rather than start another. Gives those who have not seen this thread an opportunity to see it and keeps the improvements in one place.

Wanted a way to adjust the fence without having turn the hand wheel so much. Eventually I will add the micro adjust, just have to figure out how.

Repurposed a couple of the parts from some extra angle heads I had laying around.

Original drilling for WP micro adjust. Never installed it, decided to go a different route. 246673-0

New hole location.246675-1

UHMW tape, creates a glide surface.246677-2

Had to relieve the bar to accept the jamb nut.246679-3

Piece of perforated angle iron to align the struts.246681-4

Installed, I'm going to get a couple of acorn nuts to cover the ends of the threaded rod.246683-5



Tom

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 868
Decided to revive this thread rather than start another. Gives those who have not seen this thread an opportunity to see it and keeps the improvements in one place.

Wanted a way to adjust the fence without having turn the hand wheel so much. Eventually I will add the micro adjust, just have to figure out how.

Repurposed a couple of the parts from some extra angle heads I had laying around.

Original drilling for WP micro adjust. Never installed it, decided to go a different route. (Attachment Link)

New hole location. (Attachment Link)

UHMW tape, creates a glide surface. (Attachment Link)

Had to relieve the bar to accept the jamb nut. (Attachment Link)

Piece of perforated angle iron to align the struts. (Attachment Link)

Installed, I'm going to get a couple of acorn nuts to cover the ends of the threaded rod. (Attachment Link)



Tom

Not owning the CMS GE just yet I've been speculating about the issue with the Fence, I'd thought about something that looks like what you created would be a good solution. And now you've done it. I will give this idea a try in the next few months..

Thanks
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 03:06 AM by PreferrablyWood »
850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline richk

  • Posts: 46
I have the CMS-GE and share the frustration about the fence. Here is the solution I'm working on:

Use a Fastcap Kapex table mount (http://www.fastcap.com/estore/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=54411) to attach 2 feet of Fastcap Best Fence (http://www.fastcap.com/estore/pc/viewprd.asp?idproduct=42614). Then attach an Incra LS Positioner with a Wonderfence ( http://incra.com/router_table_fences-ls_super_sys.html) to what is effectively an extension of the CMS table. That will be further supported by a Fastcap Upper Hand, which is essentially a collapsible leg.

Don't know for sure how it will work out, but the pieces are on order...

RichK

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 561
As long as you can get the positioner attached somehow and not have to move it you'll be golden. I have the incra rails on my mafell Erika and made a router leaf for it. The micro adjust ability of the fence is so useful for routing and the wonder fence is a great addition also with the split rail for dust collection. You won't be disappointed at all.

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 868
As long as you can get the positioner attached somehow and not have to move it you'll be golden. I have the incra rails on my mafell Erika and made a router leaf for it. The micro adjust ability of the fence is so useful for routing and the wonder fence is a great addition also with the split rail for dust collection. You won't be disappointed at all.

I'm looking at this and it seems to me the CMS GE and the Incra positioner super fence gets a little to bulky, If I need the Incra positioner and it to be portable, I think I would just make my own table for it built from the ground up to be a portable Incra setup..
850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline richk

  • Posts: 46
PreferrablyWood:

It's important to me to be able to break the whole thing down when not in use.

In my approach, the legs come apart and collapse to a small package, easily stowed, and the positioner either pops right off the table extension or the table extension unhooks from the CMS. Either way, the pieces should be easy to hang from a wall, out of the way.

Each of the pieces is designed to work that way so I figured it might be more secure and easier to take apart than what I could come up with. I had a design for a permanent addition to the table, but the Incra positioner makes the whole apparatus too large for my shop area.


Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 868
PreferrablyWood:

It's important to me to be able to break the whole thing down when not in use.

In my approach, the legs come apart and collapse to a small package, easily stowed, and the positioner either pops right off the table extension or the table extension unhooks from the CMS. Either way, the pieces should be easy to hang from a wall, out of the way.

Each of the pieces is designed to work that way so I figured it might be more secure and easier to take apart than what I could come up with. I had a design for a permanent addition to the table, but the Incra positioner makes the whole apparatus too large for my shop area.

I can see the logic then in a fixed location, it's easy to just stow things up out of the way, high on a wall. I'm going to moving to different locations, so I'd be a little concerned about taking the delicate looking Incra position out from place to place. To Bad Festool doesn't meet the need and come up with a more compact fence but with some of the Incra features, perhaps making it work together with the sliding side fence.
850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline cpap

  • Posts: 18
Thank you for the great idea Benjamin! Just finished up setting my CMS with the WP micro adjust. It works amazingly well. Such an improvement.

A few subtle differences in the way I mounted mine:
-I tapped holes in the crown stop so that the bolts thread directly to it.
-I also tapped the back of the fence for the long 6" bolts to attach to.
-I used a 1-1/2" Fernco rubber 90 deg to slip over the back of the fence port and hose end. It's a perfect fit.

For an extra $100 or so, it makes a lot of sense to do this mod.



« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 11:18 PM by cpap »

Offline ILovewood

  • Posts: 6
Just saw your project. Great idea. I have also looked at the Woodpecker micro adjuster. Very versatile.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1569
Great use of the Woodpeckers adjuster and realizing that the crown stop would work for attaching it to the table.  I really need to learn to download and attach pictures...I attached two CMS-VLs together with a section between that I put tee slots in so I could move the Woodpecker in and out and use it on either side.  Again my apologies for the teaser, I've been asked numerous times for pictures, it's just that lack of learning curve time has prevented my sharing.

Offline kieran989

  • Posts: 2
Re: another CMS micro adjust ( using crown stops)
« Reply #50 on: July 23, 2017, 01:22 AM »
I really love your design.  It's so much cleaner than mine.  FYI, I'm an anal bastard and drilling or doing any surgery to a $1,600 apparatus is just so emotionally hard, but your clean design makes it's really easy.  This is why I attached to the wing of the fence mechanism rather than the body.  The problem with this is that it adds so much more junk to the equation.  I have a degree in architecture and design-wise, you definitely did a better job.  I'm definitely gonna modify my design, adopting many of your ideas, but what I made works for now.

In terms of Neil C's question, I don't think that adding a table saw crank is what he's talking about.  Yes, this will make it physically easier to crank, but I think the rapid adjustment he's taking about is moving it, say, 2 inches without cranking.  What if you add a board with 2 perpendicular slots or 2 perpendicular t-tracks mounted onto the crown molding attachment.  Then mount the Woodpecker Micro Adjust onto the board/t-track with the knobs that came with it.  Now simply loosen the knobs to move it 1 or 2 inches, lock it in place, and then utilize the micro-adjust.

What do you think?



Thx Jon,

I really like the idea but real soon me and a friend have a idea were going to impliment and if it works out the way we think it will I'll post the results

Hi Ben,

Did you ever impliment your other idea?

Offline kieran989

  • Posts: 2
Decided to revive this thread rather than start another. Gives those who have not seen this thread an opportunity to see it and keeps the improvements in one place.

Wanted a way to adjust the fence without having turn the hand wheel so much. Eventually I will add the micro adjust, just have to figure out how.

Repurposed a couple of the parts from some extra angle heads I had laying around.

Original drilling for WP micro adjust. Never installed it, decided to go a different route. (Attachment Link)

New hole location. (Attachment Link)

UHMW tape, creates a glide surface. (Attachment Link)

Had to relieve the bar to accept the jamb nut. (Attachment Link)

Piece of perforated angle iron to align the struts. (Attachment Link)

Installed, I'm going to get a couple of acorn nuts to cover the ends of the threaded rod. (Attachment Link)



Tom

How does the angle heads actually attach to the fence here?

Did you find a way to incorporate the micro adjust?

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5308
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
The arms from the angle head attach to the fence, the head itself does not. The head attaches to the v-grove as it normally would.

I believe so, work keeps getting in the way of working on the solution.

Tom