Author Topic: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400  (Read 28641 times)

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Offline vteknical

  • Festool Employee
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Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« on: September 05, 2008, 11:23 PM »
Yes it can be done.  I know it voids the warranty.  Buying them seperately just did not seem right since they are exactly the same and Festool is supposedly all about a system.  I prefer the RTS setup up better for my needs.

How would Festool Service know you swaped the pads out anyway? 
« Last Edit: September 06, 2008, 12:55 PM by vteknical »

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Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4589
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: RTS and DTS 400
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2008, 11:25 PM »
Yes I agree,  I always thought that should be one sander offered with two bases not two separate sanders.

Nickao
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Les Spencer

  • Posts: 487
Re: RTS and DTS 400
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2008, 12:12 AM »
 :) ;) :D ;D
Les (near Indy) XL

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: RTS and DTS 400
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2008, 09:44 AM »
Thanks for posting, you want to post the part members here so other members can try this it they dare. If I remember you need a mounting plate and sanding pad to make the change, is that right? I can't see why this should void the warranty (I'm almost 100% certain it does).
« Last Edit: September 06, 2008, 09:44 AM by Brice Burrell »
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline John Langevin

  • Posts: 245
  • Springfield, MA
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2008, 03:01 PM »
Vt,
I too have always wondered the same thing. However the local Woodcraft Store told me that they were not interchangeable. This didn't make any sense to me. I think they should make one sander with a quick change pad system. The fact that they don't has prevented me from buying either one.
Practicing Mediocrity Never Begets Perfection

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2008, 12:29 AM »
vteknical,

How much time does it take you to convert your sander from one pad configuration to the other?  On many jobs both a delta shaped pad and a rectangular shaped pad are needed to be most efficient.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline soggycrow

  • Posts: 10
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2008, 03:48 PM »
I just received the RTS today.  It's very light.  When I picked up the box I thought they had forgotten to pack something.  But everything was there.  The DTS is probably just a matter of time.  But my next priority is atable and plunging saw.

Offline soggycrow

  • Posts: 10
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2008, 03:42 PM »
Vt,
I too have always wondered the same thing. However the local Woodcraft Store told me that they were not interchangeable. This didn't make any sense to me. I think they should make one sander with a quick change pad system. The fact that they don't has prevented me from buying either one.

Festool wants you to buy and use their tools, but not muck around with them.  They don't want you to be mad at them if you make a mistake.  And people do make mistakes.  As for the guy at Woodcraft, I find most of those guys not too knowledgeable.  They seem to have a high turnover rate.  If he was knowledgeable what he should have said was that he couldn't guarantee that the pads were interchangeable and that the company provides no help.

Offline Mike Chrest

  • Posts: 386
  • N.W. New York State
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2008, 08:25 PM »
Voids the warranty :o :o :o

Oops. I switched my DTS to a RTS a couple years ago. No problems yet. I still have the triangle pad but find the rectangle more useful. Takes about five minutes to switch back and forth.

Mike

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5433
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2009, 06:19 AM »
I am planning on buying the RTS too and then possibly get the DTS pad and convert it when needed. I was wondering if this was possible as they seem to be the exact same sander. This thread has exactly the information I was looking for and I'm glad it's confirmed it is possible.

However, I got one question when I look at the photos, it seems that the holes for the bolts on both pads are on different places, the DTS's hind holes are placed farther apart than on the RTS pad.

Can anyone tell me how they still connect to the sander motor house?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 06:20 AM by Alex »

Offline Charimon

  • Posts: 651
  • Tool and Tile Junkie
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2009, 12:07 AM »
Alex

The 4 screws that mount the pad to the Housing are the silver  Torx screws not the brass threaded inserts you were identifying.

Thanks Craig
« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 12:08 AM by score0matic »
"The existence of the flame thrower proves that at one time, somewhere, somebody said, " You Know, There's a group of people over there that I'd like to set on fire right now but they're too far away."

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5433
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2009, 04:12 AM »
Ah I see now, how silly of me to have missed that, thanks for clearing that up score0matic.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 04:47 AM by Alex »

Offline jonny round boy

  • Posts: 3224
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2009, 02:17 PM »
Just found this thread - I've got a DTS400, and took the base off the other day to try to see if it was possible to convert it to the RTS.

vtek -

I don't know if your sander is slightly older, or if it's different because it's a USA machine, but on mine the black plastic moulding that is the 'base' of the sander (as opposed to the 'pad') is different to the one in the pics.

Basically, there are 4x black machine screws which release the 'pad' section from the base. Then, there are 4x silver screws which hold the base onto the sander. Removing these doesn't release the base. it appears that the base on mine goes up inside the rubber 'skirt'. I can't see this on yours.

To remove the base on mine it appears that you'd need to remove/release the bottom one of the two metal bands, and I can't see a way of doing that without either a) damaging the band or b) damaging myself in the process...

Can you confirm if yours came off without removing the clamp?


Edit: Looking at the pics again, it's clear that mine is a different design to yours - the 4x silver screws that hold the base on are 45 degrees rotated in relation to yours - yours are at 12 o'clock, 3 o'clock, 6 o'clock, and 9 o'clock. Mine are at 1:30, 4:30, 7:30 and 10:30 (if that makes sense?).

Also, on yours the lower section of the case that incorporates the dust port appears to be an aluminium casting - mine is the same moulded plastic as the top section.

I agree that the bases should be easily interchangeable though, as you say it's supposed to be a system...
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 02:26 PM by jonny round boy »
Festoolian since February 2006

TS55R EBQ saw - CTL26 - CTL Mini - OF1400EBQ router - KS120 Kapex SCMS - ETS150/3 sander - RO90 sander - DF500 Domino - PDC18/4 drill - PSC420 jigsaw - OFK500 trimmer

Wish list (in no particular order!): Anything not listed above....

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5433
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2009, 06:06 PM »
This thread should be called Converting an RS400 to a DS400, since the model displayed in the pictures is the older RS / DS Version. The part with the dust collection port on it is grey whereas with the newer RTS / DTS models it is black.

But that would really suck if you can't exchange the pads anymore. Who oh why would Festool do such a thing while they're constantly hammering on their "SYSTEM" approach and telling us their machines save money? It would be so easy to design a Fastfix interchangeable pad.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2009, 12:10 PM by Alex »

Offline John Langevin

  • Posts: 245
  • Springfield, MA
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2009, 08:59 PM »
Alex, See my original post above, right on!
Practicing Mediocrity Never Begets Perfection

Offline Notorious T.O.D.

  • Posts: 506
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2009, 01:51 PM »
I heard from a Festool rep a couple weeks ago that the two are becoming one machine with interchangeable pads...which makes a lot of sense.  I guess we will see if it comes true or not...

Best,
Todd

Offline NVA_WW

  • Posts: 245
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2010, 09:06 PM »
Any more news on whether the RTS and DTS will become one and the same with interchangeable pads?  Or whether you really can convert an RTS 400 to a DTS 400 or vice versa?  I am ready to take the plunge on the RTS or RS, but wanted to double check before I pull the plug.  TIA
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 09:14 PM by NVA_WW »

Offline Wonderwino

  • Posts: 802
  • That Green Koolaid causes mutations.
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2010, 05:01 PM »
That would be the R&D400S, due for release when the metric system is adopted in the US.    [poke] [scratch chin]
Water separates the people of the world; wine unites them.

Offline Wood_Junkie

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400 - ANSWERED!
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2010, 11:22 PM »
Proceed with your own cautions about opening up your tool!

I was too curious, and I love taking stuff apart... 

Before:
Standard, weeks old DTS400.  Hellooooo beautiful!

19284-0


Oh my!  What happened!?!
19286-1

 The *bottom* retaining ring must be removed.  I used a pair of needle nose pliers and great patience and care.  The factory installed band is press-clamped into place and the retaining tabs must be basically twisted off to release the band.  An alternative would be to Dremel through the rentangular "bump".


The Frankenstein surgery continues.  Here I've taken the DTS pad and DTS plate off, and show the new parts in the back.  On the left is the old retaining band, and on the right is part #453-707 ("Clamping strap") item #24 on the Festool part diagram.
19288-2


Reassembly requires putting the clamping strap in place first, then fitting the plate, and ensuring there are no folds or bumps on the rubber boot.  Once the plate is secured I tightened down the clamping strap, making sure it didn't pinch anywhere.  Finally, attaching the pad.


Here my little friend has gone all rectangular and $^!#, and one might suspect it is a mis-labeled RTS400.  Abra cadabra!
19290-3

The initial process took me about 25 minutes.  The most time consuming process was the careful removal of the stock strap.  I used only hand tools to make sure I didn't over-tighten anything.  It requires a T40 Torx bit, and a very small phillips for the replacement Clamping Strap (I used a computer-kit screwdriver).

I plugged it in and ran it for a bit as a RTS to make sure it was sanding, orbiting and not doing anything untoward.

For the sake of the curious I then did the reverso-chango and timed it.  4 minutes, 30 seconds flat to switch back to the DTS configuration.  I already had my drivers handy, soo.. YMMV.
Since my Systainer is configured for the DTS, and it doesn't fit in RTS 'mode', I'll let it sleep as a DTS.  RTS will only awaken when I specifically need it.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5433
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2010, 03:49 AM »
Nice work wood junkie. I never had a clue the replacement strip would come with a screw and just assumed Festool repairmen had a special tool to clamp it in place. If it only took you 4 minutes to change it is certainly worth doing it.

But it does look like you've just sacrificed your warranty on your brand new sander.

Offline wnagle

  • Posts: 502
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2010, 12:01 PM »
Even though you can take the RTS or DTS apart and change pads,  the current models have different counter weights that reduce vibration.  So if you change them you won't get optimal anti vibration that was designed into the two sanders.  

I'm sure the new model will be interchangeable by design and this won't be an issue.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 12:34 PM by wnagle »
Wayne

 

TS 55, CT 33 x2, ROTEX 150, RO 90, DOMINO 500Q SET, TRION PS 300, OF 1400, MFT/3, ETS 150/3, KAPEX KS 120, DOMINO XL.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5433
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2010, 12:46 PM »
Even though you can take the RTS or DTS apart and change pads,  the current models have different counter weights that reduce vibration.  So if you change them you won't get optimal anti vibration that was designed into the two sanders.  

I checked each part of the two sanders on the parts diagram website. They are identical, except for the bottom plate of course. So I don't know where you get that idea about different counter weights.

Offline Wood_Junkie

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2010, 01:26 PM »
Even though you can take the RTS or DTS apart and change pads,  the current models have different counter weights that reduce vibration.  So if you change them you won't get optimal anti vibration that was designed into the two sanders.  

I checked each part of the two sanders on the parts diagram website. They are identical, except for the bottom plate of course. So I don't know where you get that idea about different counter weights.

They are different between the RS/DS 400 models and the RTS/DTS 400 models.  But they are the same within each model line.  That was one of the officially reported enhancements to the tool, by Festool, making the xTS improved over the RS/DS.

As Alex pointed out, and I did the same sleuthing (someone else posted it before.. I can't remember who), the parts lists are *identical*, every single part, from top to bottom, except for the plate and the pad.

What I could see Festool doing, in creating a unifiied orbital sander, is adding a sub-base plate.  This would be the part which attaches at the rubber boot and is secured by the clamping strap.  It would be a simple thing, then, to attach different plates and pads without compromising any rules about opening up a machine.  Just my two-cents.

Offline wnagle

  • Posts: 502
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2010, 01:27 PM »
Alex,

It actually wasn't  my idea.  I'm really not that smart.  And maybe I re-stated it wrong but I was told by Festool that there are differences in the balancing system between the two and if interchanged you would not get optimal minimal vibration.  Maybe it's not the exact part, rather how it is designed, I'm not sure.  And even if they took the time to more fully explain it I may not totally understand it.  They just said the counterbalancing is different for each sander.  It was probqably my assumption that the actual weight was different.

That being said:  I suppose anyone is welcome to change their pad anyway.  However I thought I would relay the info from Festool as to why they aren't interchangeable.  Posibly some people wouldn't want to make the change having this knowledge.

No offense to you at all but if Festool tells me they are different in how they are balanced and shouldn't be interchanged, and you tell me they are the same...again no offense meant at all to you, but I think I'd rather rely on information directly from festool.  Others on here may too.  I suppose there are some who would deduce that Festool just told me that so they could sell two sanders instead of one, but I am not a conspiracy theorist, so I take them at there word.  And I suppose the person at Festool could have been mistaken but again I'd rather err on the safe side.

For me personally, at the moment it is a moot point, since I don't have either sander, I will wait until the new one comes out.  Even if I had both sanders I wouldn't try to interchange them.  I'd rather have both sanders since they aren't that expensive and I'd rather not have to deal with the hassle of making the changes back and forth.  (I have two band saws in my shop so I won't have to change blades as often)

Not to mention it may void the warranty even if I didn't screw something up taking it apart.

Just my take on the subject.
Wayne

 

TS 55, CT 33 x2, ROTEX 150, RO 90, DOMINO 500Q SET, TRION PS 300, OF 1400, MFT/3, ETS 150/3, KAPEX KS 120, DOMINO XL.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 2866
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2010, 01:47 PM »
Could be the spinning brass counterweight is a different mass
for different pads but doesn't look different.

Offline wnagle

  • Posts: 502
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2010, 01:59 PM »
Maybe it was Brian who told me...that could make the information suspect!!!   [embarassed]
Wayne

 

TS 55, CT 33 x2, ROTEX 150, RO 90, DOMINO 500Q SET, TRION PS 300, OF 1400, MFT/3, ETS 150/3, KAPEX KS 120, DOMINO XL.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5433
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2010, 02:26 PM »

No offense to you at all but if Festool tells me they are different in how they are balanced and shouldn't be interchanged, and you tell me they are the same...again no offense meant at all to you, but I think I'd rather rely on information directly from festool.  


Well, if somebody from Festool told you that then you interpreted it wrongly or he was simply wrong.

As far as I know, a part number is a part number. I checked the parts diagram and compared all part numbers from the DTS to those of the RTS. Except from the base plate and the sanding pad EVERY part number was the same. I checked very thoroughly.

But if you don't want to rely on my ability to check soemthing like that out (or wood_junkie's), fine, check it yourself.

I'll send you to the Dutch site for this because the American site list the 120 volt model for the RTS and the 230 volt model for the DTS, so they will be different of course and more difficult to check. But on the Dutch site you can see the 230 volt models of the DTS and RTS side by side.

DTS400 EQ 230v

RTS400 EQ 230v

Maybe you're not inclined to take Alex' word over that of Festool, but how about you take Festool's word over that of ........ Festool?   [huh]

Lemme know what you think.
 

Offline wnagle

  • Posts: 502
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2010, 02:40 PM »
Alex,

Well it is possible that Festool told me that just keep my grubby little fingers out of the insieds of the sander for my own protection.  But just for the sake of discussion.  Suppose the part numbers were identical but attached differently in each model causing a different balance.  It wouldn't surprise me much if one part could be used in both sanders in just a slightly different way to get a different effect.  Maybe I should call Festool service and get a second opinion since they haven't chimed in yet. 

And just to clear things up about taking your word for it, You are the smartest person I know from the Netherlands.  Well your the only person I know from the netherlands but from my statistical perspective your still on top! [poke]
Wayne

 

TS 55, CT 33 x2, ROTEX 150, RO 90, DOMINO 500Q SET, TRION PS 300, OF 1400, MFT/3, ETS 150/3, KAPEX KS 120, DOMINO XL.

Offline Forrest Anderson

  • Posts: 1072
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2010, 02:53 PM »
Wayne

I think the problem is that the Festool Knowledgebase says:


Q: What are the differences between the new palm sanders: RTS400, DTS400 and ETS125; compared to the older models: RS400, DS400 and ES125?

A: The improvements made to the new palm sanders, ETS125, RTS400, DTS400 are mainly internal; you may not notice any difference in how they look. The counterweight has been reshaped to provide better balance and stability. The cooling fan housing is now made of metal and the new fan is less likely to come in contact with the housing. This lessens the tendency for the sander to hop around, and will result in fewer swirl marks. On the ETS125, the rubber pad brake now has holes around the periphery. This prevents vacuum lock when connected to a vacuum, which allows for better pad rotation, making the sander easier to move across the work piece. This will also results in fewer swirl marks. Some have felt that these new sanders are not as aggressive as the older models. What you are actually noticing is improved performance and less vibration due to the improvements.


You will hopefully now see why it might be thought that the story you relate about the counterbalance being different between the DTS and RTS is a corruption of the above statement by Festool which says that the counterweight is different between the DTS and the DS, and between the RTS and RS?

Forrest

Compiler of the Consolidated List of Festool Links - the place to go for Festool reviews, manuals, brochures and videos!

Offline wnagle

  • Posts: 502
Re: Converting an RTS400 to a DTS400
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2010, 03:06 PM »
Forrest,

I was hoping you would respond to the subject.  I wasn't comparing and old model with a newer model, rather the triangular pad vs rectangular pad within the same model so to speak.  What I was told by Festool when I was at a training there, was that there is a difference between the RTS 400EQ and DTS 400EQ and that you shouldn't buy one and then change the pad out to the other due to differences in balancing.  I know others have done just that and haven't complained of feeling any difference.  So I'm not sure why they told us that in class.  Either I was given bad info or there is another explanation that we aren't seeing.  I don't doubt Alex in seeing the exact same part numbers but that isn't necessarily the complete answer.  

I put in a call to see if anyone knows the complete answer.   Hopefully they will have the time to enlighten us.

Edit:  These are the kinds of things one can do while stranded in a hotel out of town where one can't actually use his sanders! [doh]
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 03:10 PM by wnagle »
Wayne

 

TS 55, CT 33 x2, ROTEX 150, RO 90, DOMINO 500Q SET, TRION PS 300, OF 1400, MFT/3, ETS 150/3, KAPEX KS 120, DOMINO XL.