Forrest Anderson
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Location: Edinburgh. Scotland Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 1072
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« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2010, 04:13 PM » |
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I was hoping you would respond to the subject. I wasn't comparing and old model with a newer model, rather the triangular pad vs rectangular pad within the same model so to speak. What I was told by Festool when I was at a training there, was that there is a difference between the RTS 400EQ and DTS 400EQ and that you shouldn't buy one and then change the pad out to the other due to differences in balancing. I know others have done just that and haven't complained of feeling any difference. So I'm not sure why they told us that in class. Either I was given bad info or there is another explanation that we aren't seeing. I don't doubt Alex in seeing the exact same part numbers but that isn't necessarily the complete answer.
I put in a call to see if anyone knows the complete answer. Hopefully they will have the time to enlighten us.
OK! Let us know what they say! Personally, I think it would be great if Festool offered this type of sander as a kit with two easily interchangeable pads - you just clip on the pad you want for the job in hand, and off you go. Maybe the next generation of palm sanders will be like that... Forrest |
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wnagle
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Location: Akron, Ohio USA Member Since: Apr 2008
Posts: 502
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« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2010, 04:20 PM » |
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Forrest,
I agree, having a dual head sander would be best. The two models mentioned are 205.00 each here in the US, so neither is that bad. The expense comes from buying ten boxes of sandpaper in rectangular and triangular in all the needed grits. I have the Deltex right now so my plan was to get the rectangular pad sander next and be done with it, but if festool comes out with a dual mode I'd lean more that direction and buy another assortment of sand paper.
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Wayne
TS 55, CT 33 x2, ROTEX 150, RO 90, DOMINO 500Q SET, TRION PS 300, OF 1400, MFT/3, ETS 150/3, KAPEX KS 120.
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Peter Halle
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Location: Powhatan, Virginia USA Member Since: Jul 2007
Posts: 6388
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« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2010, 04:41 PM » |
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Wayne and others,
Sorry, I have been away from the computer for a while today. Wayne heard the statement regarding the differences in the internal vibration dampening while we were at the Training class at the end of August. So did I. I am wondering if there is a possibility that the online parts diagram doesn't have the new part numbers.
Peter
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The tools in my truck were talking the other day. The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy. They also were in the minority. Their complaint: They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in. I guess the truth hurts.
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Wood_Junkie
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin - USA Member Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 1304
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« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2010, 05:52 PM » |
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Oye, good discussion today!
I had hoped only to answer the *can* you do it question. Yes, they can be swapped with relatively minor fuss and about $24 worth of parts (pad, plate, clamping strap).
Whether they should or not is a morale / warranty question.
I look forward to anything our much-loved Festool staff can provide us regarding the mechanics.
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Alex
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Location: The Netherlands Member Since: Nov 2008
Posts: 2805
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« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2010, 06:07 PM » |
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Suppose the part numbers were identical but attached differently in each model causing a different balance.
So in how many ways can you attach something to a round object? The anchor inside the sander is completely round, as anchors for a motor usually are. To run smooth it must also be completely symmetrical. Only the lowest part No.31 in the parts diagram called 'Cam' is asymmetric. But it's center attaches right in the middle of the anchor. I'm sorry but I find the theory of different ways to mount the parts far fetched. I also don't think it's needed. I took my DS400 apart some time ago, and if you feel the weight difference between the motor and the pad (is BIG) then you'll know that the weight difference between the square and the Delta pad are close to negligible compared to the motor housing. I sincerely doubt it is needed to modify a heavy part that spins with 14000 RPM just to counter a couple of grams in weight shift. Also, if, as you say the counterweight is somehow modified, it is still attached to the anchor so when it spins, the force will be applied in all directions equally. I don't see how a force that is applied equally in all directions still is able to encounter the effect of different pad shapes. But I sure am curious to hear what a real Festool rep has to tell us about this. And then I hope not someone with sales related knowledge but with engineering knowledge. But I think you're susceptible to the theory Forrest mentioned, about the story in different counterweights between the old RS/DS models and the new RTS/DTS. Btw, I'm sorry if the links I gave to the Dutch Festool side don't work all the time. Only last Saturday did they change to a new design. Things aren't running entirely stable yet. |
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Peter Halle
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Location: Powhatan, Virginia USA Member Since: Jul 2007
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« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2010, 07:33 PM » |
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Respectfully to all posters,
As a member - and also a moderator - I think that it is unreasonable to expect that a manufacturer it going to give advice that could lead to an owner opening their manufactured product to make alterations - all which would void warranties and could depending on the complexity of the product - place the opener at risk based on their skills, etc.
Does Dewalt, Makita, BMW, Mercedes Benz, General Motors, Boeing, etc....?
Just my thoughts,
Peter
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The tools in my truck were talking the other day. The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy. They also were in the minority. Their complaint: They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in. I guess the truth hurts.
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Alex
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Location: The Netherlands Member Since: Nov 2008
Posts: 2805
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« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2010, 08:17 PM » |
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Peter, if they mentioned this on the training day it's hardly a secret, is it?
People, like me, who have their mind set on being able to use the xTS with both pads aren't deterred anyway by a vague story about counterweights not being the same while the parts diagrams list no differences.
A detailed explanation from Festool could only deter people from making the switch, not encourage them.
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« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 08:23 PM by Alex »
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wnagle
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Location: Akron, Ohio USA Member Since: Apr 2008
Posts: 502
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« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2010, 08:34 PM » |
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Peter,
I agree as I stated earlier that it's entirely possible that Festool told us that so they weren't sanctioning us to open up the sander. And that would make sense as well. But that really didn't seem like the case at the time. Seems like they really meant there was a difference. My conclusion is still the same. Either there is a real reason that we don't yet understand or we were given faulty info. As for Forrest's theory, it makes sense as a possible explanation, but when we asked the question we were specifically talking about the two newest units I mentioned earlier.
Alex,
Everything you say makes total sense and your description of the part number is correct. However, I'll give you an example of a single part that is used in two different ways.
On the Trion, the part number for the circle cutter on the Trion ps 200 and ps 300 is the same. However, when you use it correctly on the 200 you use one hole to attach it and it works correctly. When you use it on the 300 you use a different hole to attach it and it works correctly. If you use the wrong hole it doesn't work properly and you get poor out of square cuts and bent blades. But it is the identical part on both units...just attached differently for a different effect on two similar saws.
It's just a possibility which could explain the same part getting a different effect on two different sanders. Also the manual online may be incorrect for some reason. I really don't know the answer. You could very possibly be correct and they are identical and interchangeable in every way. I'm just not totally convinced since I was told different by Festool in Indiana at their headquarters. And I wasn't talking with a sales staff... but he wasn't an engineer either. We'll see what they have to say when they call me back. I will also ask them if it voids the warranty for sure or not. Shane is being awfully quiet on this one eh?
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« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 08:37 PM by wnagle »
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Wayne
TS 55, CT 33 x2, ROTEX 150, RO 90, DOMINO 500Q SET, TRION PS 300, OF 1400, MFT/3, ETS 150/3, KAPEX KS 120.
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Guy Ashley
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Location: Northampton, UK Member Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 662
Furniture & Cabinet Maker/Joiner
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« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2010, 04:15 PM » |
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I heard from a Festool rep a couple weeks ago that the two are becoming one machine with interchangeable pads...which makes a lot of sense. I guess we will see if it comes true or not...
Best,
Todd
Forrest The above quote is what I picked up on. I haven't attributed anything to you. Regards Guy |
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DIPLOMACY:
"The art of being able to tell someone to go to Hades in such a way that they positively look forward to the journey"
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Forrest Anderson
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Location: Edinburgh. Scotland Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 1072
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« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2010, 04:18 PM » |
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I heard from a Festool rep a couple weeks ago that the two are becoming one machine with interchangeable pads...which makes a lot of sense. I guess we will see if it comes true or not...
The above quote is what I picked up on. I haven't attributed anything to you. Thanks for the link! I'd forgotten about that post from last year, and hope that it's true! I'll keep my eyes open for any news about it... Forrest |
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harry_
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Location: Middleton, NH Member Since: Nov 2009
Posts: 1067
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« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2010, 02:30 PM » |
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Well it is possible that Festool told me that just keep my grubby little fingers out of the insieds of the sander for my own protection.
Or,....... nothing to do with fingers & sanders and more to do with fingers & wallets?   |
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Disclaimer: This post is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. This is not an offer to sell securities. May be too intense for some viewers. No user-serviceable parts inside. Subject to change without notice. One size fits all (very poorly).
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