Terp
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Location: Washington DC Member Since: Feb 2008
Posts: 179
I build, therefore I am.
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« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2008, 08:28 PM » |
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Thank you Dan, I'd like to thank my Mother & Father for giving me the camera, & my wife for enduring my festoolishness..............    |
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Dusty man
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Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.
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Mahogany Man
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Location: New York Member Since: Sep 2007
Posts: 71
Western New York
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« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2008, 08:40 PM » |
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I gotta agree, an imploded Systainer would be a great vision! Terp: You are correct, any leak and it is worse at that area. The barrel I used is a heavy duty Pharmaceutical container, (they both contained drug in powder form, before being made into pills) I chose these drums because the top seals Extremely tight, with a silicon seal, and locking ring. The side walls are 1/8" thick, and almost impossible to push in by hand!! That is.........until you hook them up to a suction  I have to agree with Terp, I can't see the Systainer working, but I can also agree with the attempt.......I know what it's like to get an idea in this thick skull  I have a used barrel distributor in my area, they have a ton of different open head barrels, both plastic and steel. I am taking a ride tomorrow in the morning, to get my third, and hopefully final barrel |
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« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 08:47 PM by Mahogany Man »
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Does Howdy Doody Have Wooden Balls?
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Don T
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Location: Phoenix, AZ Member Since: Jan 2008
Posts: 608
Phoenix, Az
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« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2008, 09:06 PM » |
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Hard headed, you must know me. I always have to find out for myself if my ideas will work or not. This time it looks like Nickao is going to take the idea to fruition before I will. The clear-vue is on my list of things to buy and I would like to incorporate it on my CT 33. You really don't know if something will work until you try it.
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RO150, C12, DF 500 Q, CT33, TS75, MFT3, Kapex 120, MFT3/Kapex, MFK 700, RO 90, ETS150/3, CT22, Centrotec Installers Kit
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jmelson
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Location: NH Member Since: Jul 2007
Posts: 4
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« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2008, 12:44 PM » |
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I have a Dust Deputy in front of my CT 33 and had it mounted on a 5gal joint compound pail. The first time that I dead headed the suction hose, the bucket collapsed. I went to HD and bought 2 of the opaque 5 gallon pails in the paint dept. I then cut the bottom off one of the pails ,cutting the side wall. Then cut the top of the pail just below the bottom reinforcing ring. This left me with an insert to put in the other pail. I put a ring of clear silicone around the out side of the insert about an inch above the bottom edge and another about three quarters of the way up from the bottom, slid the insert into the whole bucket and tapped it down with a wooden block, let it set over night and now I have a bucket with double the wall thickness. My DD sets on top and the pail does not collapse and an added bonus, I can see the level of sawdust through the side of the bucket.
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Michael Kellough
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 1905
Southern New York
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« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2008, 01:19 PM » |
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I went to HD and bought 2 of the opaque 5 gallon pails in the paint dept....and now I have a bucket with double the wall thickness.....I can see the level of sawdust through the side of the bucket.
You can?! |
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Terp
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Location: Washington DC Member Since: Feb 2008
Posts: 179
I build, therefore I am.
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« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2008, 05:10 PM » |
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I have a Dust Deputy in front of my CT 33 and had it mounted on a 5gal joint compound pail. The first time that I dead headed the suction hose, the bucket collapsed. I went to HD and bought 2 of the opaque 5 gallon pails in the paint dept. I then cut the bottom off one of the pails ,cutting the side wall. Then cut the top of the pail just below the bottom reinforcing ring. This left me with an insert to put in the other pail. I put a ring of clear silicone around the out side of the insert about an inch above the bottom edge and another about three quarters of the way up from the bottom, slid the insert into the whole bucket and tapped it down with a wooden block, let it set over night and now I have a bucket with double the wall thickness. My DD sets on top and the pail does not collapse and an added bonus, I can see the level of sawdust through the side of the bucket.
Hi, I thought the Dust Deputy comes attached to a container already. It can't be smaller than 5 gallons, so why change to the 5 gallon paint bucket? I like the creative thinking with the buckets though. Good job, but why? |
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Dusty man
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Corwin
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Location: Washington State, USA Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 1991
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« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2008, 05:17 PM » |
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.. and an added bonus, I can see the level of sawdust through the side of the bucket.
Great! I was thinking of making a bucket out of the same clear material that the ClearVue cyclones are made with for that very reason. Wish they offered products like this to complete the system. |
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Shirt Size: L
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Terp
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Location: Washington DC Member Since: Feb 2008
Posts: 179
I build, therefore I am.
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« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2008, 05:55 PM » |
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I just purchased a plastic shipping bucket on E-bay. Here's a link to that page. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220213117328&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=012 I hope this works we'll see. The lid will receive a plywood ring on the under side, to mount the CV06 & stiffen the lid. The bucket looks quite stout, yet we'll see.  Hey guys, I just got the bucket I purchased on E-bay over the weekend. I've never seen these before, but I'm confident this will work. I know, famous last words. This thing is real thick walled & very hard/rigid. The lid may or may not work, but the container is perfect. A lid can be made, if need be. I'll work on it this week, as I'm allowed, & let ya'all know how it goes. The bucket cost $12.00 on E-bay & was pick up only, but if it works I'l go collect a few more to distribute. BTW, to the writer of the last post, Corwin. I have the ClearVue CV06 myself & it's great, so is Ed Morgano, the manufacturer of them. He hadn't ever hooked this up to a Festool DC before, from what I gathered. I initially called to make sure the hoses would fit up. I worked with both Ed & Timmy the Festool dude at Festool Junkies that day. Timmy it turned out had just purchased the CV06, so he checked the fittings. The hoses mated up perfectly so I bought one, but Ed himself wasn't sure. That said, I'm sure the shop vac he demonstrates the CV06 on generates no where near the CFM of a CT33. He shows it on top of a 5 gallon paint pail. I was afraid of this when I ordered, yet I liked the CV06 for so many reasons I bought it. The main reason is the adaptability to mount different ways, sort of like an incomplete kit. Other than that it was because of the clear body. You can see that it is working & working well. If you stop generating waste into the vacuum stream & look at the CV06, you'll see no waste in the cyclone funnel, it's cleared. It all drops into the bucket. The great part about that is when it gets to full, you'll know it. You will see that the hose to the vacuum, out of the cyclone top, begins to pull debris from the bucket itself, through the cyclone. So that even when you have stopped your machining, you will seed waste in the cyclone funnel. The CV06 is fantastic, it's just that on top of the powerhouse Festool CT's, at 134 CFM, it needs a worthy container. Personally, I think we're on to something good with this setup. It only needs the right vessel for the bottom. I plan to share this experience with Ed, as I told him I would, so that he may perhaps provide a container for the CV06 in the future as an option. I already told him he needs to get a CT33 & see for himself. Then he can cater to us nuts. |
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Dusty man
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Ned
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Location: Mountains of Southern California Member Since: Jul 2009
Posts: 0
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« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2008, 06:46 PM » |
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... he needs to get a CT33 & see for himself. ...
The CT22 and CT33 are mechanically and electrically identical. They differ only in the size of the bag cavity, the bags used, and a little storage compartment on the front. Basically, one plastic spacer that makes the body taller. In Europe, they offer CT44s and even CT55s, which differ only in having additional spacers for even bigger bags. If you're using a cyclone, much of the waste will be going into the external drum. Unless you have a really high volume of waste getting past and into the CT, a CT22 would be lower initial cost with identical performance. Ned |
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Steve Jones
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Location: Austin, Texas Member Since: Dec 2007
Posts: 405
Austin, TX US
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« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2008, 07:25 PM » |
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interesting point you raise Ned - I'd noticed that apparent plastic insert being the diferrence - I could get tempted into spending the extra $60.00 for a plastic insert with a storage box (I guess in line with festools prices, they don't give this stuff away) is that section removable?
For example could I have the CT33 in the shop but remove the extra piece and take it as a CT22 on site (I guess slightly smaller and better able to fit in my tiny, overloaded vehicle)
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Steve Jones
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Location: Austin, Texas Member Since: Dec 2007
Posts: 405
Austin, TX US
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« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2008, 07:29 PM » |
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Wait, wait, if the plastic add on doohicky is removable, I want the discontinued CT11 ($295.00) and two of the $60.00 plastic inserts
Comes to $415.00 for a CT 33 kit!
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Ned
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Location: Mountains of Southern California Member Since: Jul 2009
Posts: 0
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« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2008, 07:53 PM » |
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Steve--
Check the EKAT parts catalog (in Germany, but accessible through Festool USA website).
Like the DTS/RTS sander pair, the CT's certainly use common parts, but weren't designed to be converted in the field, or converted back-and-forth. Maybe you could do it once.
If you could convert back-and-forth, you'd need bags for each configuration.
Ned
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Ned
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Location: Mountains of Southern California Member Since: Jul 2009
Posts: 0
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« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2008, 07:56 PM » |
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For example could I have the CT33 in the shop but remove the extra piece and take it as a CT22 on site (I guess slightly smaller and better able to fit in my tiny, overloaded vehicle)
Maybe a better idea would be a CT22 with cyclone in the shop, and leaving the cyclone at home when you're on site. Ned |
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Terp
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Location: Washington DC Member Since: Feb 2008
Posts: 179
I build, therefore I am.
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« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2008, 08:49 PM » |
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Hey guys, Put the tools down & step away from the CT's, please. Seriously, I have owned the CT33 for over a year now. During that time our household vacuum died, again. Does anyone know what they cost? A good one,... geez. Well I began using the CT33 to Vacuum the house on the weekends & quickly realized I'd never used a better house vacuum. Over time though the CT33 has become laden with attachments such as the Boom & above mentioned Cyclone. I decided to spring for a CT22 for the house. The best part is it lives under my chop saw bench & can be used to clean the shop & for site work. It's not really much lighter, but it is easier to carry. Also, I bought prior to the price increase & bought the 22 with a Trion jig saw to save on both before the price rise. They are identical except for the spacer. Don't chop down you CT33 though. it's all plastic & something might not be meant to be disassembled that way. All serviceable parts are in the head anyway, so the base may have limited disassembly. Either way you can use the 22 bags in the 33's. Make a spacer for under the bag though, so it won't tear. You might be able to convert a 22 into a 33, be careful & good luck. The parts are all available, that's for sure. |
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Dusty man
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Ned
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Location: Mountains of Southern California Member Since: Jul 2009
Posts: 0
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« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2008, 09:01 PM » |
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...During that time our household vacuum died, again. Does anyone know what they cost? A good one,... geez.
Well I began using the CT33 to Vacuum the house on the weekends & quickly realized I'd never used a better house vacuum...
My CT22 is welcome in the house any time, after it wipes its feet. If the Mini had a HEPA filter, my wife would have bought one by now. Ned |
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jmelson
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Location: NH Member Since: Jul 2007
Posts: 4
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« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2008, 09:07 AM » |
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Opaque=Translucent You can see the level of sawdust in the pail through the side wall. It is not clear enough to see the sawdust flying around inside. The Dust Deputy comes in two flavors, 1 Complete, 2 DIY kit. I opted for the kit as my original intent was to mount it on a 20 gallon grease drum, obviously empty and clean, but alas had to put it on a bucket do to lack of space in the work shop. I started out with the DD mounted on top of the CT 33 , but due to a rather quick slide down that slippery slope, I needed more space for sustainer's and now my DD resides on top of my shaper. By the way, I have had this system for about a year and have emptied the bucket no less than twenty times and have very little accumulation in the CT 33 bag. The material that is in the bag may have come before the see Thur bucket, when I was using the joint compound bucket and let it get too full.
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Michael Kellough
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 1905
Southern New York
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« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2008, 09:48 AM » |
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Opaque=Translucent
According the the American Heritage Dictionary, official Republican Edition, from the VP's desk
By the way, I have had this system for about a year and have emptied the bucket no less than twenty times and have very little accumulation in the CT 33 bag.
That's the kind of testimonial that gets me going, I want one now. |
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merklebob
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Location: seattle , washinton Member Since: Mar 2008
Posts: 45
seattle, wa
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« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2008, 01:00 PM » |
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to correctly use a cyclone you need air volume. it looks like your connecting with the 52mm hose to the cyclone and connecting the tool to the 3-4 " hose to the tool from the cyclone. put a gate in the line close to the tool. open the gate until the plastic container doesnt colaspe.
to move dust thru the tubes you need volumes of air movement. at 135 cfm the ct22/33 is just enough to barely keep the dust supended in the air stream. the gate will allow you to increase the air flow and reduce the total static pressure[which is colapling the containers] . you'll need just enough to pull the dust from the tool and the rest thru the gate.
if you look at full size dust collectors the volume is 900 cfm and static draw pressure is less then 10" vs about 27 for the ct.
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Dave Ronyak
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 2233
Flyin' from NE Ohio
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« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2008, 01:50 PM » |
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Merklebob,
I have both a Dust Deputy and and Oneida 2.5 HP portable twin cyclone. I agree that cyclones require a minimum volume of air flow (actually air velocity within the conduit lines and the cyclone) to work properly, and that they generally use much lower static pressures than shop vacuum machines like the CT 33 (which has the same flow and static pressure ratings as the CT 22). I own a CT 22, a Fein Turbo II and an old 16 gal. Craftsman 11A vacuum, and my Dust Deputy works quite well with any of these (most of the time I use a 36mm hose on the inlet). Oneida specifically warns in its operator's manual for the 2.5 HP machine to not run it with all blast gates closed because this can cause overheating even though it is equipped with a high quality (Baldor) motor of the TEFC type (which is cooled by a fan within the motor housing). I also agree with your easy-to-implement instructions for adjustment of the blast gate (or some by-pass) to limit static pressure and maintain adequate air flow through the cyclone. But ideally, shouldn't much of that air should be in the conduit that is transporting the debris to be captured in the cyclone, and the velocity in that conduit needs to be high enough to keep that debris moving, and ideally suspended in the moving air. I don't understand where you obtained the static draw pressure of 27 (inches of water?) for the CT. Is this from some performance chart of graph? Does this represent the value within a certain size of hose coupled to a certain Festool sander or other machine? Or an open 27mm hose?
Dave R.
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Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement. PCs...I'm not so sure.
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Michael Kellough
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 1905
Southern New York
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« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2008, 02:26 PM » |
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......a gate will allow you to increase the air flow and reduce the total static pressure[which is colapsing the containers] . you'll need just enough to pull the dust from the tool and the rest thru the gate.
An easy way to add a bootstrap gate is to add a Y at the inbound port on the cyclone. With the tool hose connected to one port you can cover the open part partially with something to get a good ratio. My central shop vac is a Fein which is too powerful for small sanders so I put a Y on the vac and adjust (partially cover) the open port so the sanders run freely. Most times I simply leave the Fein hose installed and use it to pick up stray dust and debris without having to switch hoses or pull the hose from the tool. Only a small amount of suction is wasted at the tool so this works well. |
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merklebob
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Location: seattle , washinton Member Since: Mar 2008
Posts: 45
seattle, wa
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« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2008, 12:44 PM » |
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the 27 is based on the normal shop vac static numbers. its really not important that its 27 or 22 but that its usually twice what a dust collector system draws. the extra gate[or valve needs to be close the the sander[or other tool]. closed enough to pick up the dust generated by the tool only. i cant remenmber the number exactly but i remember something like 100 fpm to keep the dust flowing. in the picture it looked like a large host from the cyclone to the tool. it would be better if it was the 52mm size hose. as you increase the hose size the velosity of the air movement goes down.
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greg mann
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Location: Michigan Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 1126
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« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2008, 03:56 PM » |
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Based on my experience with the ClearVue mini I would say it is sized and configured to work best with 2 inch hoses on input and output side. As far as imploding the collection containers goes, the challenge is to keep from constricting airflow on the pickup size. I have been using a 2 inch hose between DC and the ClearVue and a 2 inch hose to various stationary tools, including a 15 inch Powermatic planer. Even there it ahs done a credible job on ,say, a .050 cut on an 8 inch workpiece. I have used the 36mm hose with my Bosch CMS with no issues. However, I once tried cleaning the floor with a 27mm hose and the tradesman cleaning attachment. Too much static pressure build resulting in an imploding container. The same job with the 36mm hose resulted in far better pickup and no implosion. The key is to keep the airflow as high as possible which will also keep the static pressure lower by default. The cyclone itself just creates an eddy current of air in which to trap the heavier than air particles. the trick is to keep negative pressure as low as possible in the container. If you are imploding the container you are restricting airflow and losing efficiency. Michael's Y at the input to the cyclone is a good way to accomplish this, especially if you could fit it with a spring loaded relief valve, but to let air in when needed to keep static pressure from climbing. A reasonble analogy would be the damper and air inlet adjustment on a wood stove. They work in unison to keep the fire a burning at the rate you want while not allowing the natural draw of the chimney from pulling heat out too quickly. In our case we want maximum airflow so it would be an open damper and an increasingly open inlet until they are matched. Of course for the analogy to work you need to ignore the fact that the woodstove has expanding gasses to deal with.
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Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan
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merklebob
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Location: seattle , washinton Member Since: Mar 2008
Posts: 45
seattle, wa
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« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2008, 04:48 PM » |
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the y at the cyclone only keeps the container form imploding. you need the air flow thru out the whole line. that why the y, gate... should be close to the tool. i agree with everything else.
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greg mann
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Location: Michigan Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 1126
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« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2008, 06:27 PM » |
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Correct. Close to the tool is best but is really only practical for stationary tools and one will presumably have bigger hoses on them anyway. I personally think the clearvue is unnecessary for the Festool saws or sanders or even the Domino, unless you are doing a whole bunch of mortices. It would help in any circumstance where you would want a full cyclone but don't have one or when you are out of the shop.
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Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan
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Corwin
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Location: Washington State, USA Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 1991
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« Reply #54 on: April 13, 2008, 05:24 AM » |
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Oops, I posted this on the wrong thread... Yep, that ClearVue showed up yesterday, and I hooked it up as shown in the photo in no time today. Works like a champ -- Hoses fit directly (but I did order a longer D50 just for the occasion) and the paint bucket does not collapse when you deadhead the nozzle. Be a little nicer if those paint buck lids came on and off easier, but this was quick and easy. Best of all, it works great!  Now for one of those tool organizers that fits on the inside a Systainer lid... I especially liked how quickly this arrangement went together. As it happened, my last cuts before the cyclone arrived left sawdust that indicated that the bag needed changing, so before I started up this contraption, I installed a new bag -- nice timing. I am using a new longer D50 from CT to ClearVue as I figured the one that came with the Boom Arm was likely a little too short (and, as configured, that is correct.) This longer hose may account for that meager 5 gallon paint bucket holding its own, even when the hose was deadheaded. Once I know how I'll want it, I'll cut down the D50 for a more appropriate fit -- hope I'm not then left in a fit looking for a better bucket, or adding back some of that removed hose... Anyway, so far, so good -- well, actually it is great! Oh, and some of that copper tape to finish up the AS system will be a future addition too. And that tool holder for inside the lid is heading up on my wish list. A second (maybe for different items) would be nice on the lid of the Sys-1 that I now use (thank's to Ned for pointing this out to me) to set down the current tool in use. That Sys-1 sits on the top of two Sortainers that all roll around on a Systainer Cart -- and they can roll under my MFT to get out of the way, well, as long as that tool has been put away and the Sys-1's lid is closed first. With the hose garage attached, the Sys-4 that came with the WorkShop Cleaning Set had been rather empty without the hose. Now that Sys-4 is going to good use and the floor nozzle along with several other attachments fit nicely into the big drawer in the 4 drawer Sortainer. All works great for me, and I can easily clear off the top of the CT for other storage by placing the Cyclone setup on a Systainer Cart. |
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mitch dugo
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Location: St. Peters MO. west of St.Louis Member Since: Mar 2008
Posts: 17
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« Reply #55 on: April 13, 2008, 07:02 PM » |
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Opaque=Translucent You can see the level of sawdust in the pail through the side wall.  Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) o?paque ?adjective 1. not transparent or translucent; impenetrable to light; not allowing light to pass through. |
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"choose you this day whom ye will serve; . . . but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord" (Josh. 24:2, 15).
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