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Steve Jones

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« on: August 9, 2008, 12:25 AM »

I had posted some pictures of my cutting table some time ago, but since some items have changed and a couple of folks asked me for pictures, i thought now would be a good time to show it again.

Some thoughts about it's purpose: since I spend most of my time cutting up full sized sheets of 3/4" plywood, this system is designed to enable me to cut full sheet goods efficiently alone (My business if building custom cabinets in a one man shop).

I don't have construction diagrams or pictures taken during contruction, but I think the pictures and description here will enable anyone to make their own versions. The table serves as my main assembly table as well (despite the fact that I have two other tables intended for the purpose, I find that you can't beat a really big table with enough room to flip and spin a partially assembled cabinet).

Pic 1: is the infeed table, a couple of folding stands with a plywood top, this is set up before a delivery so can stack the 3/4" stock (the heavy stuff) at the "infeed" end of my cutting table, each sheet can then be slid onto the "operating" table as needed.

(You'll see also some handy home made storage to keep some of the clamps handy, the hooks are simple plywood scraps cut into "L" shapes and pocket screwed to the end panel)

Pic 2: Under the table are several simple "drawers" designed to hold a systainer, this keeps all my Festools to hand (always within reach) and I find the added advantage that if their regular storage is this close I actually put things away between uses.

Pic 3: Also under the table is the regular home for my small compressor, primarily used for powering pin and brad nailers, this home means it also is close (I don't have to move it to use the nail guns) it's stored in the back side of the table (non work side).




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Steve Jones

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Steve Jones

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« Reply #1 on: August 9, 2008, 12:33 AM »

Pic 4: Dust control is handled by a CT22 sitting on a stand I had around (actually an old table saw stand, the saw died but I have trouble throwing anything away), the arm is simple 3/4" PVC piping (also lying around) it's a bit too flexible on it's own, so I dropped about 30" of 3/8" threaded bar (also lying around the shop - are you seeing a trend here?) into the top end to stiffen up the lower section, it's simply bolted to the steel frame of the stand, I use one sacrificial nylon tie through a hole near the outer (top) end to hold the vac hose and power cord in place, (this stops the hose from sliding through the supports) then a series of velcro strips to support the rest of the length of both (vac and power).

Pic 5: the shop vac on it's cheap support stand, I find hold the CT at table height gives me enough hose to work tools all over the 8'+ x 4'+ table, the flex in the PVC allows easy movement while keeping the cord and hose out of my way without too much pull.



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Steve Jones

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« Reply #2 on: August 9, 2008, 12:51 AM »

Pic 6: the crosscuts are done with a rail dropped into this slot in the fence (this is a closeup of the working "near" side of the table) The fence runs the length of the table with Kreg top_track along the top, there is a slot wider than the rail around the center point and right-to-left tape on the left section, left-to-right tape on the right section (of which more later)

Pic 7: The other end of the rail rests against a hard maple stop mounted with two bolts to a piece of angle aluminum with t-slots (would you believe I found this lying around too?), being adjustable enabled me to experiment and get an exact right angle between a rail in position and the fence on the working side.

Pic 8: Length of crosscuts (I tend to do crosscuts first on full sheets, makes the pieces easier to deal with for any second cuts needed) is set by an adjustable stop on the left fence, I simply slide a sheet from the infeed table onto the cutting table up to the stop, drop the rail in place pushed to the left against the left fence section and to stop on the far side of the table and retrieve the saw from it's systainer (at my fingertips below the table to my left)


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Steve Jones

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« Reply #3 on: August 9, 2008, 12:56 AM »

Pic 9, 10, and 11: Lengthways cuts on a full sheet are done by measuring and marking positions of the cut at each end of the plywood panel, then dropping the fill length rail lengthways on the marks, you'll see a long cut in progress (since it's a one man shop what you actually see is  where i left the saw to go take the picture, but you get the idea).

Note that the flexible boom easily allows the cord and hose to reach all areas of the table without sagging to the tabletop to get in the way and without pulling hard enough to spoil any operations.


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Steve Jones

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« Reply #4 on: August 9, 2008, 01:07 AM »

Pic 12: at the outfeed end of the table is my parts bin, once cabinet parts are cut and labeled (a full kitchen has enough parts I find it very worthwhile to keep track of what piece is what part of which cabinet) they are put into the parts bin, sorted by next operation (shelf pin holes, edge banding, etc)

The box on the back of the parts bin is to hold stretchers and nailers (2" or 3" strips of ply, cut from the same material as the cabinet panels), the parts bin itself is mounted on swiveling casters so I can roll the whole parts bin around the shop (to the edge banding station for example)

Notice also in this pic the roll of paper, handy to pull over the cutting surface when it's time to slop glue around during assembly, again this was easy to I cut ends out of scrap 3/4 ply (i tend to have a few of those handy at all times in my shop), drilled a hole in each to carry a closet rod and keep it in place with some large rubber seals "o" rings outside the end mounting plates (plates fixed to the end panel of the table with glue and Kreg screws)

Pic 13: another view of the clamp rack, this keeps my clamps handy for the assembly process, again my life is much simpler if stuff is close and handy, and I actually manage to put stuff away if it's as easy as this.

The top of the cutting table is a full sheet of 3/4 MDF (MDF comes about 1" oversize on both dimensions as compared to plywood, so it makes an excellent top for cutting plywood, the front rail and rear stop and attached to the MDF sheet rather than the table itself, that way I can slide the MDF top to one side without affecting the settup (explained in the next post)




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« Last Edit: August 9, 2008, 01:09 AM by Steve Jones » Logged

Steve Jones

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« Reply #5 on: August 9, 2008, 01:14 AM »

Pic 14: The reason the cutting table top needs to slide is to clear the flip top that my planer is mounted to, in this pic you see the planer mounted nicely out of my way upside down under the table, once the cutting surface is slid down about 20", the flip top (A section of the table top normally under the cutting surface) can be flipped over moving the planer into position above the table (and right side up), this operation takes a few seconds (including hooking up dust control) so I find it an ideal place for my planer to live.





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« Last Edit: August 9, 2008, 01:17 AM by Steve Jones » Logged

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Rey Johnson

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« Reply #6 on: August 9, 2008, 06:42 AM »

Steve,

This is an absolute great setup. Thanks for posting...and including the pics!! You have given me several ideas. I like the way that the layout and homes of some of your other tools have been incorporated. I have been contemplating lately about where my planer should live in the shop.

Great stuff there!!

Rey
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Steve Jones

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« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2008, 01:40 PM »

Pic 15: This is a closeup of the left side stop, here you see it set up to cut at 13 1/2" - The scale is set to read the distance between the right edge of the stop and the right (cutting side) or the rail when is position against the stops on the table.

Pic 16: The rail in position, it sit's with the left edge against the hard maple stop built into the fence...

Pic 17: and the far end against another hard maple stop, these two stops on the table ensure that the rail is exactly at right angles to the fence, so if the piece to be cut is against the fence my cut will be a perfect right angle also.


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Steve Jones

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« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2008, 01:52 PM »

Pic 18: to cut thin slices, I use a different stop on the right side fence, this one has an adjustable bolt which provides the reach to put the stop on the fence and give clearance for body of the saw to pass over while making the cut.

If the piece is narrower than the Festool rail, I use another piece of the same material as a backer to support the rail and also to unsure that my cut will be square (because of the larger edge against the fence)

Pic 19: the two piece are pushed together while keeping them tight against the fence and up against the stop on the right.

Pic 20: here is a piece of 1/4" ply ready to cut 1/4" strips (Festool rail in place for cutting), The measurement is taken from the right edge of the stop body.

I can cut any sized pieces down to really tiny slices with this stop, it measures from the right hand edge of the target piece (what will be the outer edge of the cutoff piece) the bolt adjusts to allow for different blade widths (should I need to, usually I use the same model blade)

Both stops are adjusted by cutting scrap pieces on the relevant side and measuring the cut piece.


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« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2008, 02:00 PM »

Pic 21: Here's the piece after the cut, notice the 1/4" strip cut is automatically straight and has no taper because the scrap used like all pieces around my shop (parts, offcuts, jigs, etc) are ALWAYS square because everything is cut against the fence on this table, it took some valuable time away from production to build this cutting table, but the benefits in accuracy make the time spent pay off every day,m something as simple as being able to relay on every piece of scrap from the bin having exact right angles is an enormous time saver (I use scraps of 3/4 for routing the profiles in the end of rails for 5 piece doors, support for thin strip cutting operations (as shown above), it's great just to be able to grab a piece of scrap and know it's square.

Pic 22: for clarity, here's the cut 1/4" strip moved away from the rail. If I need more than one strip I'm already set up to cut multiple strips by simply sliding the stock panel to the stop and cutting again.



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« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2008, 02:34 PM »

Steve, absolutely awesome post!  I have been designing a similar table for the past couple of weeks and will definitely integrate some of your ideas!  One question for you, how is the reach when you are crosscutting a full 4x8 sheet?  I was thinking of making the top of my table tiltable for wide crosscuts.  Something like the picture below.


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« Last Edit: August 15, 2008, 02:38 PM by EricL » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2008, 02:50 PM »

Eric, I kept the table fairly low to maximize reach, I just measured from the fence to the saw handle at maximum reach, it's 43".

I have no trouble reaching that far, but I'm 6'2" do some measurements if your height is different (your mileage may vary, as they say in the car adds).

Bear in mind that the table is at waist height for me, that means I'm covering some of that reach by leaning over the table as I cut, it's not a stretch when I get to the end of the cut. (although my GF at 5'2" would require a re-design to be ble to use it, but i think that would simply be making the table lower)
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Steve Jones

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« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2008, 03:37 PM »

Pic 23: This is the actual top of the cuttign table with one of the flip tops shown (The cutting surface is a full uncut sheet of MDF since it's about 1" longer and wider than a standard 4' x 8' sheet of plywood it makes it easier to slide plywood sheets around on top).

This section is the top under which my planer is mounted, since I don't really use this surface much I simply countersunk the mounting bolts into the top, if I was using this surface I'd fill the countersink holes with epoxy.

This table was based on a cabinet design published in one of the woodworking magazine about three years ago, I adapted the design to my cutting table changing just about everything except the basic concept.

Pic 24: these tabs lock the flip top in place in either mode, I made these from flat aluminum stock from Home Depot, drilled for the mounting bolts then cut to length. to flip to planer into position I rotate the locks out to the front (towards me) as shown in this pic.

Pic 25: Tnben rotate the planer into position, notice the lock tabs at the outer end are already pointed towards me (forward) this position leaves them under the top at the rear in the stowed position.




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Steve Jones

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« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2008, 03:38 PM »

Pic 26: Once the planer is upright...

Pic 26: rotate the tabs out to the side to lock in place.

Pic 27: the power cord is routed through the top and ends up inside the cabinet whichever way the top is, so I don't have to wrestle with the cord while rotating the top.



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« Last Edit: August 15, 2008, 03:40 PM by Steve Jones » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2008, 03:40 PM »

Steve,
   A great post and the pictures show a real system. It must be a joy to use it now. Thanks for presenting such a thorough story.
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Steve Jones

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« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2008, 03:53 PM »

Thanks for the kind words John.

Just a couple more things to point out on the table....

Pic 28: The rear tabs are now also on top of the table (if your following the logic here, all four locking tabs are under the table when the planer is stored and all above the table when the planer is in use, since they do not affect operation of the planer (or any other machines mounted this way) the tabs are out of the way when the table top is clear (all tools folded away) the reason I  mention this is that the table is suitable for all kinds of table top machine, I also have flip tops in this table for a pair of router tables, but do not us them in this configuration at the moment.

Pic 29: Edge on view of the front edge of the flip top, (sorry about the focus - or lack of it) but I think you can see the relevant details, the top of the entire table is a sandwich of two pieces of 5/8" MDF with 1/2" MDF in the middle. this means that the flip top shown here is one piece of 5/8" MDF, with two pieces of 1/2" MDF cut to leave a 1/2 gap in the middle of the panel, then 2nd single slab of 5/8" on top, this leaves a 1/2" square hole through the width of the panel top accept a length of 1/2" steel rod (from Home Depot) to act as a pivot for the flip top. The edges are re-inforced with  piece of 3/4" x 1 1/4" pine to give a bit of extra support (though Maple would be ideal, pine is what I had at the time). The board stock is drilled to accept the 1/2" steel rod in the center (actually, I cut the strips oversize and drilled the hole then mounted them in place with the rod inserted, then trimmed the ends, I found it easier to get a smooth edge that way.

Everything is coated multiple times in whatever poly I had left over from cabinet jobs at the time,





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« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2008, 04:06 PM »

Pic 30: A little more about the sliding storage for the systainers in case someone wants to duplicate or adapt the idea..... (I have 8 of these around the table at the moment, more will follow as the collection grows - one of the nicest things about this method of storage is that it easily grows with my needs without ever looking half done or wasting any space, for example if I get enough more systainers my compressor (which currently lives in an empty bay under the table) will have to find a new home.

Pic 31: Each slider is simply a 15" x 15" piece of scrap material (this one is 5/8" MDF, but some of them are 3/4" ply) covered with a piece of 1/2" material (in my case usually MDF) which measures 11 1/8" wide x 11 5/8" long placed in the center (approximately), then 3/4" x 3/4" strips of whatever (in this case clear pine) cut to 15" and placed (glued) against each end form a stable base which a systainer will suit on securely. The goal here was to design a stable platform which would keep a systainer in place without having to lock it in down, I have yet to have a systainer move so I guess the design works.

Pic 32: I used oversize (over long) cheap Blum 230's (cause they're cheap at Home Depot) and the overside part means the drawer slides out enough to open the lid on the systainer without lifting it off the shelf. (Slides are 20")





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« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2008, 10:38 PM »

Thanks allot for sharing this Steve.  You have given me a bunch of ideas to incorporate into my table WHEN I build it. 
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« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2008, 12:25 AM »

Steve,

I've been trying to keep myself thinking portability with my FESTOOL gear but circumstances are forcing me to get more serious about productivity.  That may mean heavier machinery like a panel saw or a sliding table saw.  After seeing this cutting table, which is the best I've seen,  I may be changing my mind on that.  How would you rate your productivity with this setup versus a really good panel saw or slider?  How about ease of use?

By the way, this setup and concept looks better than anything I've seen from Eurekazone and I've been studying their Power Bench offering pretty close.  It's good stuff but what you have here is better than a power bench.  Not to put too fine and edge on it but this bench of yours is just freakin brilliant.  Dino needs to see it.

Another question.  Looks like you have thin rips pretty much solved.  Are you ripping and cross cutting you face frames and door and drawer parts on this table as well?  If so how is it handling hardwoods.

Final question.  What about the other axis?  I'm going to need rips probably up to the full 8' in some cases.  It would be nice to be able to keep the pencil in my pocket and handle that with ruled stops as well.

Thanks for sharing this innovation.











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Steve Jones

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« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2008, 01:39 AM »

Frank,

Thanks for the kind words. I wouldn't trade my cutting table for any
tablesaw I've seen anywhere.

I use an infeed table which is simply two heavy duty stands with a
plywood top framed with 4" skirt of 3/4" ply to keep it flat. The infeed
table is a little shorter than the cutting table height making it easy
to slide sheets onto the cutting table single handed. I unload
deliveries of 3/4 stock from the supplier directly onto the infeed
table.

BTW, I use a couple of quick and dirty racks made from 2" x 4"s to hold
other sheet goods, I need to keep everything flat otherwise even prime
quality plywood warps (which makes it useless for slab doors). The racks
are made from 4 pieces of 2x4", 4' long making the long sides of two
triangles, the base of the triangles is a furniture dolly from Harbor
Freight which come carpeted on the short sides, The carpet ends up under
the edge of the plywood on the racks which protects the edges and makes
sure they can't slip off the rack. My 2x4s are screwed through the
bottom of the dolly into the lower ends of the 2x4s and the the two are
screwed together at the top. two complete dolly/racks hold several
sheets of plywood and roll around easily when fully loaded.

I also screw scraps between the triangles to keep them upright and
several at different heights between the legs of each triangle to make a
rack for board stock.

Back to the cutting table: I considered making the top with a 4"
skirt/frame to make it rigid or even MDF on the top and bottom of the 4"
frame to make a torsion box so I could pivot the top at the center of
each end to ease loading and cutting, But after some experimenting I
found the Festool rails work best when flat and level, and the infeed
table makes loading very easy. (plus you can't beat a good, solid table
when it comes time to assemble the big cabinets, I'm passed the age when
I like to crawl around on my knees when working).

The only downside I have found to the current design is that the
operator has to have long arms, you have to be able to reach pretty much
across a 4' piece of ply at the table height, mine is perfect for my
reach (because the table is shorter than my waist) but my shorter
assistants have trouble with it. (and my 5'2" girlfriend/partner would
have to crawl across the table to be able to make a 4' cut).

On productivity I've got tablesaws beat cold, you could probably come up
with effective carts to move and load sheets onto the tablesaw (I've
seen some nice tilting cart designs that would work) but you still have
to slide and rotate a pretty hefty sheet around to cut it up.

The whole advantage with the Festool approach is that what we really
need to do is move a blade with it's power source and a heavy sheet of
material past each other accurately and in a straight line. It seems to
be so much smarter to move the lighter one of the two. (the saw)

Two doors down from me used to be another cabinet shop, he had a nice
$1,800 table saw setup in the middle of his shop, he politely refrained
from laughing at me when he visited and introduced himself while was I
setting up shop with Festools.

We used to visit back and fourth regularly, I learned that a standard
kitchen took him a week to ten days from design to assembly...

and he learned that it took me two or three days to do the same.

He's not there any more, I kind of miss visiting with him, He's now
working for someone else, probably still pushing sheets through  a
tablesaw. maybe he tells his new co-workers about this crazy idiot who
makes kitchens with a circular saw. maybe they all laugh together about
that story, I don't mind.

Most of the time I cut the crosscuts first, then rotate each piece to
cut to length (for example cabinet sides and decks are usually 23 1/4"
deep (complete cabs plus 3/4" doors are 24" deep), I cheat and make the
cabs total 24" because anything less than 24" means I get twice the
material usage (half the width of the sheet less kerf).

So I cut off 30 1/2" from the end of a sheet, spin it long side against
the fence and set the stop to 23 1/4", cut twice and I have two cabinet
sides and a skinny (minimal waste) offcut.

Set those on the parts rack and slide the rest of the sheet down to the
stop set at my cabinet width (say 22 1/2" for a 24" cab), cut another
slice and then again spin it long side against the fence, set the stop
to 23 1/4" and cut the deck, then set the right stop to 3" and cut three
stretchers from the offcut, and then set the right stop to 4" and cut
two toekicks/bases....

I just made a cabinet!

The grain is all the right direction (vertical on the sides, horizontal
across the deck and stretchers). and I made minimal waste.

draw out those pieces and imagine the steps you'd go through to make
them on a table saw. same number of cuts but I'm sliding and slamming
the pieces around on a piece of MDF with no blade and movable fence to
avoid (my fence stays securely screwed to the front of the table) The
MDF will not hurt the working material - even if it's already finished,
neither will the saw. and I'm only moving the minimum sized piece to
make each cut. and I don't have to worry about supporting the ends, I
don't have to catch the offcuts, I don't even have to pick them up, I
slide 'em off the end of the table into the scrap bin.

I think if you made the table rigid enough it could easily be on wheels
(or casters) don't go cheap on the casters, get good strong locking ones
(the ones that lock the swivel too) because you'll need the table to
stay in place while sliding a sheet onto it.

One further thought, My top is replaceable, I made the fence from Hard
maple and Kreg (pocket) screwed it to the top (pocket holes under the
front edge of the top into the fence) in other words the fence is
against the edge of the top, not sitting on it, this give me maximum
width which will actually hold another sheet of MDF (which comes one
inch bigger then 8' x 4' in both dimensions). The top with fence
attached is simply sitting on the table, the actual top of the table
(under the cutting surface) is a sandwich of several pieces of MDF 5/8"
- 1/2" - 5/8") reasons for which I think I covered in the description on
FOG.

Hope all this helps.

Steve
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« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2008, 01:58 AM »

Another question.  Looks like you have thin rips pretty much solved.  Are you ripping and cross cutting you face frames and door and drawer parts on this table as well?  If so how is it handling hardwoods.

Final question.  What about the other axis?  I'm going to need rips probably up to the full 8' in some cases.  It would be nice to be able to keep the pencil in my pocket and handle that with ruled stops as well.

Thin rips are covered easily by the right hand stop, There is much discussion about getting thin rips from thin stock - use bigger pieces guys!

Frankly i used to rip the frames (not so much face frame work, I usually talk the customer out of it, I pretty much detest all the hinges I have seen that work with face frames, as far as I'm concerned it's an outmoded way of making cabinets inefficiently, you can get away with bad cabinets and doors and bang the hinges around to align them, tacky!

i do however usually make 5-piece doors, these days I get my rail and stile stock already ripped, cut, squared and sanded, I simply cut to length and route the profiles. (shop around, this may be catching on in your area, so far i can buy Maple, Oak, and Mahogany all prepared this way from my lumber supplier at not much over the going board foot price. (you have to buy in bundles of 100 linear feet) sized in 3/4" x 2" or 3/4" x 2 1/2"

Other door and drawer parts (I use 1/2" ply for drawer parts) are cut on the table, sometimes norrower parts (shallow drawer sides and ends) are cut to length on the miter saw because I can set the stop, stack them  and cut them 4 at a time.

For long cuts on sheet goods I use the table and a long rail, (stuff that fits in the sizes for the edge guide get cut that way) everything else I use shop made story stick to the widths I cut (for example I rip a lot of 11 1/4" strips for top cabinets,) story sticks are made in pairs each is an "L" shape with the leg very short to sit over the edge of the material, the top of the stick touches and pushes the top hat on the rail unit its perfectly in place, for a bunch of narrow rips at odd sizes I sometimes use the edge stops supplied with the 32 system kit.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 02:01 AM by Steve Jones » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2008, 02:09 AM »

Missed a question: you also asked about how it handles hardwoods.

It handles hardwoods great, I don't much like the edge I was getting with the Festool Panther blade, cuts reasonably quick but I like all my cuts to be ready for assembly (sanding and jointing while great fun take too long - and I don't own a jointer)  I recently received a Tenryu blade for evaluation (which I haven't written yet) but the thing is awesome! its what the Panther should be, rip cuts fast in hardwood with an edge as perfect as the fine Festool blade in plywood (and it doesn't eat the edge strip from your rail like the panther does). And I understand it will be cheaper. Thanks Tenryu - nice one
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« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2008, 10:36 AM »

Steve,

That's what I wanted to hear.  This is less work, less lifting, more efficient material handling in general.  And safer than a Sawstop.  A panel saw is just not as versatile.  You've got a true production setup with a lot of versatility to boot.  Plus you're not as likely to scratch prefinished ply or melamine.

You mention experimenting to square the rail in picture no. 7.  That's a key to success.  What technique did you use to get the stop in the right place on that opposite side?

Do you cut dadoes and rabbets with this setup?


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« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2008, 10:58 AM »

Old carpenters trick for aligning any power saw to square, works for miter saws and radial arm saws.

Place a scrap of the widest material the saw will cut (about 8" for my miter saw, 4' for the cutting table) preferably as long as the fence and cut it in the middle, flip the offcut piece away from you (the cut edges stay together, the edge that was towards you is now away from you), slide the pieces together and look at the join, if it does not taper at either end you are set perfect. if any taper appears forming a gap adjust and re-cut until the join is tight.

BTW this also works for the MFT.

I use two sizes of dado, 1/4 for drawer bottoms and cabinet backs and 1/2" for drawer sides. the 1/4" are usually done with two passes of the TS on the table (I usually use a scrap shim to put between the workpiece and stop on the first cut, remove it and slide up for the second, means all my dados end up in the same place and the same width.

For the 1/2" it quicker (and much messier) to use an old radial arm saw (you can pick these up very cheap, nobody wants them anymore, mine was given to me) I leave a dado blade set to 1/2" on the saw with the blade turned sideways (parallel to the fence) and 3/8" from the fence - that way I can quickly feed any drawer parts through the saw without any measuring or setup involved, the radial arm saw's main disadvantage is the mess it makes.
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« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2008, 12:45 PM »

How about an adjustable story stick for rips.  Here's a concept.



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« Reply #25 on: November 9, 2008, 05:44 PM »

Steve,

Absolute dream setup....
Can't imagine how incredibly useful this setup must be...
Your table is so well thought out... You have truly captured the ideal situation...
I don't have much space... that I can dedicate to a table.. but if I did this would be it.. hands down!!!

Did you ever think about an actual bissemeyer fence... or unifence or something that would stick into the table more than the kreg stop?
You could use it to gang cut face frames etc...
The complication... would be that you would have to have some sort of rail imbedded in the table in front of it that you could slide stops to the right of the fence to pull your boards against..

The only extra advantage would be to crosscut more than one board at once... just an idea...not sure if it is worth dealing with the stops to the right of the fence...

Unless there is a table saw fence that the actual rail that the fence rides on is raised enough to pull boards against...


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« Reply #26 on: November 9, 2008, 07:51 PM »

Jeff,

Thanks for the kind words.

I actually experimented with a Incra fence (love those things) on the table early on, but since I can be sure of my crosscuts (right angles) and not sure of the factory edges on sheet goods, i found I get good enough accuracy and more speed with the simple Kreg stop.

I also have considered the table saw type fence to run across the cutting table for bunch-cutting rails & stiles, but I get away with 4 at a time on the miter saw which also has a full length Kreg rail fence and stop setup (same rail but uses a flip stop since the fence is long and shared with the radial arm saw and needs to get out of my way sometimes - it's also handy because I set the stop and the flip it up to cut the first piece 1/2" long to lose the factory edge on the board stock too).

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« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2008, 10:24 PM »

Jeff,

That setup on your mitre saw sounds great... unfortunately I don't have a great fence there.. Your table has inspired me to make a narrower version for crosscutting only.. Right now everything has to be portable..my mitre is on a ridgid msuv... and I have a ridgid portable table saw.. so you can see why I want to use the guide to rip full sheets... and crosscutting is the one gap that I need to fix... as the capacity for sleds on my ts wouldn't be safe.. and not nearly as fun.. I wan't to get rolling on a new project for my home.... Unfortunately, I can't work with wood for a living yet!!! maybe someday.. anyway...

So what I was planning was to make a crosscutting table about 24" deep by 8 foot long... make a front and rear fence like yours with a cutout for the guide.. that I can just setup on sawhorses or a folding table and start cutting...

would 3/4 mdf, or plywood, or a prefab laminate counter top be best for this? what material should I use for the front and rear fence?  was it hard to get the slots where you place the rail square?

Do you find when you pull pieces toward the front fence to cut that there is risk of movement of the rail or piece.. I heard it is much better to push the work against the far fence to prevent this... do you clamp down the piece or the rail? Or is this a non issue...

Any direction would be appreciated......
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« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2008, 12:46 AM »

Steve, Sorry called you jeff on the last post....

Ok, now I am thinking that I need to go the full 4x8 sheet... after reading through your whole process again... simply amazing... can't imagine how anyone who owns a small cabinet shop could want to do it any other way....brilliant..

I am just a homeowner with lots of projects ahead... lots of built ins and cabinets... all paint grade... prefinished ply for the inside of the cab.. painted face frames and doors..

So... Help me out with this one.. my shop doubles as a garage... so.. The amazing part about the table is that it is really just a mdf top with the front maple fence screwed to it.. the back aligning fence is screwed to the table underneath right?

So, I would like to use this set up somehow by making it somewhat temporary..... I could leave it up for a week at a time etc... So what do think about this...

I buy a sheet of 3/4 mdf... pocket screw a front fence out of hard maple... leaving a cutout for the rail... Is the maple stock 1by or 5/4? ...
I put the top on some sort of supports... folding tables.... sawhorses... sawhorses with stringers would probably be best...
when I am done the only way I could free up my garage is if i take the top off and lay it on edge (protecting it somehow)...

1st... any ideas on how i would support the table underneath.. keeping it ridgid  enough to funtion this way? 

2nd... I would have to find a way to secure that back fence... directly to the mdf .. which will cause a tight fit for plywood.. and probable impossible for mdf.. unless I somehow extended it by a panel underneath...hmm...

3rd... you mentioned about keeping stock flat and how important that is.. not knowing much about that... do you see major problems for me keeping the mdf from warping et... leaning against a wall when not in use?

While typing this I think I just came up with another Idea... wow.. If I could find a used folding ping pong table!!! that folds in half and rolls!! ive got to check those dimesnsions, but I could replace the top... with the right size mdf... could work great...

but for now, what do you think of those first few questions..

Thank You!!!
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« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2008, 12:59 AM »

Ping pong table... 5ft wide by 9ft long...30" height.. very promising...
Oh yea... tried my reach across the table... not quite 4'...
solution.. stand on a stool... lean over the table... put left hand down to support your weight.... not an issue...
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« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2008, 04:17 PM »

Does anyone else use a system like Steve's?
Using stops to push the rail against... saving on measuring square every time?
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pci

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« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2008, 03:49 PM »

Does anyone else use a system like Steve's?
Using stops to push the rail against... saving on measuring square every time?


I use this http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=3791.0

with a fence made of plywood.

The square precision is about 0,0039" on a 23" length +- 0,0078 the error of my measurement tool.

note: i can also cut really small piece.

I updated it a little i have to post new pics.

regards
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« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2008, 06:55 PM »

hey Pci...
That is awesome..
Is the rail attached to the bridge?
or does it just but up against those stops?
do you crosscut pulling the piece against the front of the bench or pushing it toward the back?
How did you make your "bridge" supports.. cutting the slots etc... do they have to be spot on to keep it square?
thanks!!
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« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2008, 08:05 PM »

hey Pci...
That is awesome..
Is the rail attached to the bridge?
or does it just but up against those stops?
do you crosscut pulling the piece against the front of the bench or pushing it toward the back?
How did you make your "bridge" supports.. cutting the slots etc... do they have to be spot on to keep it square?
thanks!!

Q1: Yes the rail is clamped with a FS RAPID to the bridge. It's faster Wink
Q2: and it is blocked on the stops
Q3: I don't move the piece but the TS55

Q4: The bridge is plywood & the stops are  mdf + i use my of 1400 + parallel guide 

How do i setup it:
 I "normalize" my blocker fence. I use only one side as my reference.
I draw a on my blocker fence a square line. i ajdust my blocker fence on my reference side
the i clamped the rail & adjust the stop.
Do the cut.

How do i use it:
the part of the piece to keep is always under the rail.
For the first piece.
I measure from the left side the width i want (do it with an incra T rule).
Then to adjust the rail i slide down the bridge as the stops stop on the piece to cut. (do it for each foot of the bridge Wink )
Ok now i've my height setted.
I put my blocker fence against the piece clamp the rail and cut.

The next piece is easy Wink

another hint i clamp my mft on a workmate b&d 550. I remove the removable jaw and place my table. This is why there some part under the table.

a picture.














* Ma MFT 96x96.jpg (77.08 KB, 640x449 - viewed 518 times.)
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« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2008, 10:24 PM »

pci...
So little help here...
Is the rail not attached to the bridge in any way.... before it is clamped...
you simply but the left edge of the rail against the two small pieces of plywood .... and then clamp it?
I looked at pics of the fs clamp, but cant picture how it works..

two pieces.. one small and one with a trigger...

I imagine they both attach to the rail...
Do you position the smaller one at the far end of the bridge on the back side?
Then you slide on the trigger side on the front... and tighten essentially pulling those two pieces together?
Thanks...
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pci

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« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2008, 06:49 AM »

pci...
So little help here...
Is the rail not attached to the bridge in any way.... before it is clamped...
you simply but the left edge of the rail against the two small pieces of plywood .... and then clamp it?
I looked at pics of the fs clamp, but cant picture how it works..

two pieces.. one small and one with a trigger...

I imagine they both attach to the rail...
Do you position the smaller one at the far end of the bridge on the back side?
Then you slide on the trigger side on the front... and tighten essentially pulling those two pieces together?
Thanks...

The rail is not attached in any way before it is clamped.
Then the FS RAPID clamp it.

The two pieces go under the rail.
 I attached two picture to help you figure out how it works.







* Ma MFT 96x96 FS BIG.jpg (67.48 KB, 640x449 - viewed 413 times.)

* Ma MFT 96x96 FS SMALL.jpg (78.93 KB, 640x449 - viewed 386 times.)
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JEFF JOHNSON

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« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2008, 10:36 AM »

Pci,
I am blown away by your rendering skills!!!
Thank You!
I am designing a table like steve jones...
And I am thinking of how to incorporate your bridge as well...
What is the minimum amount of rail I need protruding from the front part of the bridge in order for the pistol grip side to function properly?

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pci

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« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2008, 01:13 PM »

Pci,
I am blown away by your rendering skills!!!
Thank You!
I am designing a table like steve jones...
And I am thinking of how to incorporate your bridge as well...
What is the minimum amount of rail I need protruding from the front part of the bridge in order for the pistol grip side to function properly?



I think you're right ! the steve's table is better.
I use mine because i don't have room for more. But sure if i have more room one day i'll built the steve's one

The table is 23" wide and i use a FS1400, it's really comfortable. The FS800 is too small.

regards.
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« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2008, 01:41 PM »

I am thinking of incorporating your fs rapid clamping idea... into steve jones cutting table..
by making two fences in front and back that would incorporate the fs-rapid..
the fences could be made so there is a slot that the fs rapid pieces fit in to align the rail perfectly square....
this could be made to tighten the rail... up against the side stops... or if it is strong enough.. they could act on their own...
have you thought of adding 2 strips on each side of your raise-able bridge so that the clamping pieces always pull the rail snug up against the stops?
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pci

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« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2008, 02:52 PM »

I am thinking of incorporating your fs rapid clamping idea... into steve jones cutting table..
by making two fences in front and back that would incorporate the fs-rapid..
the fences could be made so there is a slot that the fs rapid pieces fit in to align the rail perfectly square....
this could be made to tighten the rail... up against the side stops... or if it is strong enough.. they could act on their own...
have you thought of adding 2 strips on each side of your raise-able bridge so that the clamping pieces always pull the rail snug up against the stops?

I feel a good idea but I don't understand it. You lost me with your natural english ;-) (i'm french)
What kind of strip ? Wood, steel, plastic, ...
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« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2008, 05:25 PM »

when I get some time i'll try and draw it...
Au Revoir
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« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2008, 01:47 AM »

Hopefully tomorrow I will have my cutting table based on Steve's done, or almost done at least!  I will post pics once it is finished.
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« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2008, 05:38 AM »

Steve,

Please post some photos of the Harbor Freight / 2x4 racks you described.
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« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2008, 08:29 AM »

I keep recommending Festool's right angle rails called a parallel stop - here I go again.

http://www.festool.co.uk/artikel/artikel_weiterleiten.cfm?id=998&CFID=348668&CFTOKEN=81458536&jsessionid=2a30f64c7c5c77325566TR



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« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2008, 08:59 AM »

Richard,
  How do you support the part & parallel stop? Looks like it is sitting on a sawhorse. Will it fit on a MFT?
Mike
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« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2008, 09:45 AM »

Yeah, but when will we have it over here.? Sad

NAINA

I keep recommending Festool's right angle rails called a parallel stop - here I go again.

http://www.festool.co.uk/artikel/artikel_weiterleiten.cfm?id=998&CFID=348668&CFTOKEN=81458536&jsessionid=2a30f64c7c5c77325566TR
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« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2008, 02:26 PM »

pci




The fs rapid would slide into 2 added strips on both sides of your bridge... to set it up parallel every time..
sorry for the poor sketch...
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pci

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« Reply #47 on: November 21, 2008, 04:49 PM »

Hi,
Many thanks Jeff, really nice idea. Your sketch is fine.
Now i know what i have to do Smiley just patch my jig ;-)
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« Reply #48 on: November 21, 2008, 09:11 PM »

Hey pci,
Do you think it could work?

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« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2008, 09:17 PM »

Sparky...
I am eagerly awaiting your table pics Smiley Smiley
Hope it's going well...
Jeff
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« Reply #50 on: November 21, 2008, 09:42 PM »

Hey pci,
Do you think it could work?



Hi,
I think it will help :-)
i will put only one as there's the stop on the other side.



* Ma MFT 96x96.jpg (11.88 KB, 640x426 - viewed 225 times.)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2008, 09:43 PM by pci » Logged
JEFF JOHNSON

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« Reply #51 on: November 21, 2008, 11:20 PM »

Pci,
Awesome, let me know if it worked... I just ordered my system from bob marino online.. ts55 extra 55 rail, connectors, ct-22, 2 screw clamps and a fs-rapid thanks to you... my table parts.. incra track, super track, and different clamps are coming from woodpeckers next week... cant wait...

If that clamp works well, with the stops you have created an awesome home- made bridge....

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« Reply #52 on: November 23, 2008, 01:01 AM »

Sparky...
I am eagerly awaiting your table pics Smiley Smiley
Hope it's going well...
Jeff

Yeah, I was hoping to be finished with it already, but haven't had as much time in the shop as I had hoped lately.  Maybe Monday I will be able to finish it.
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« Reply #53 on: November 24, 2008, 11:14 AM »

Hey steve,
Do you make a crosscut on the first edge of ply when you slide it in .... or do you just count on the ply being square from the supplier...?
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« Reply #54 on: November 25, 2008, 04:23 PM »

Finally got my cutting/assembly table done!  Thank you much for your inspiration Steve.



The drawers:


Backside of table with more storage for future Festool purchases  Grin


Rear adjustable stop for guide rail:


another view:


My next thing to do on this table will be whenever Festool starts selling sections of the extruded rails for the MFT3.  I would like to be able to use rail mounting hardware for the MFT3 on this table.  I think it would make squaring the rail up with the fence easier.

« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 04:36 PM by Sparky977 » Logged

TS 55, RO 125, CT 22 w/ Boomarm, Domino, OF 1400, RS2E, C12, MFT3, 4 guide rails (1080, 1400, 1900, and 2700), Sortainer, Router bit Systainer, Sandpaper Systainer, Domino Systainer
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« Reply #55 on: November 25, 2008, 04:54 PM »

If its not obvious in the pictures, I made the cabinet base out of four seperate cabinets.  That way it will be easier to move whenever I finally am able to build my shop on my property.  (I am using my dad's pole barn right now.)

This table is so sturdy, I could probably put a bench vise on it!
The mdf top is easily replaceable whenever it gets too cut up.
The drawers are just 3/4 ply with 1/2 ply edging to keep the systainers in place.  The drawer guides are just basic blum, nothing fancy.  Would love to have nice ball bearing guides, but don't really feel the cost would be worth it here.
The base is only 44" deep, so there is clamping area all the way around.
Having the boom arm for the CT22 just makes everything work so smooth.
If I had the space, I would try to make this bench 10' long, as opposed to 8'.  It would give me more area to the left of the cutting notch-out.  Right now, the guide rail location is 36" from the right of the table, so 60" from the left.  It would just be nice to have a couple extra feet on the left for another section of Kreg fence for longer cuts.  Its not a major thing though.
Right now, I have 10 Systainers stored in the cabinets on drawers.  I have room for probably 12-20 more, depending on the size.  Now if I only had that much money. . . Smiley
I probably have as much invested in this table as I would have had in one Systainer storage cart from Festool.   Grin
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TS 55, RO 125, CT 22 w/ Boomarm, Domino, OF 1400, RS2E, C12, MFT3, 4 guide rails (1080, 1400, 1900, and 2700), Sortainer, Router bit Systainer, Sandpaper Systainer, Domino Systainer
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« Reply #56 on: November 25, 2008, 04:55 PM »

Sparky --- all I can say is  of a setup ----- green (with jealousy ) is the color of the day.


Justin
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JEFF JOHNSON

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« Reply #57 on: November 26, 2008, 01:13 AM »

sparky.
Stunning!!!
Man, you don't mess around.
Great looking space..
Great job on the base..
I Was in my garage today.. starting to put together my temporary table that I can break down...and park a car..
I'm feeling very inadequate!!!
But I hopefully will still be able to get square results..
I bought an incra fence with a shopstop... hopefully it will work as well as the kreg fence.. hope I didn't make a mistake..
Thanks again to steve jones...
Sparky love to hear how your first cuts go...
Great job..inspiring.

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richard.selwyn

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« Reply #58 on: November 26, 2008, 09:38 AM »

Richard,
  How do you support the part & parallel stop? Looks like it is sitting on a sawhorse. Will it fit on a MFT?
Mike

I just use it on the cutting table on top of some polypropylene insulation board - just as with the rail on its own.  I see that its NAIN - I think you guys should lobby for it becuase it's quick and easy and avoids making all the complicated jigs that I see people coming up with.
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JEFF JOHNSON

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« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2008, 01:21 AM »

Richard ...
you are right...10 foot would be ideal.....having extra room for the offcut on both sides...

I just spent the day finishing my temporary table setup...
All the parts came in from woodpeckers...
And my ts55, ct22, and rails..
wish I had bought the second rail at 75 stead of 55.. oh well..

I am blown away by the function of the table.. and the feeling and precision of the saw... combined with the ct-22 pleasure to use...
I also am very impressed with the incra track.. and stop shop... it clicks and locks at each 1/32 increment... so even if you come back to it at a later date.. you can dial in the exact measurement...

I used bungee cords hanging from the ceiling for my hose and cord.. works well
I also hung an air hose to blow dust off the table.
I will try and post some pics soon..

Table looks so nice...dreading making all those long rip cuts on it...lol.. but I might throw down some insulation for those...
Thanks again Steve...
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mhoy

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« Reply #60 on: November 27, 2008, 03:26 PM »

...
I also am very impressed with the incra track.. and stop shop... it clicks and locks at each 1/32 increment... so even if you come back to it at a later date.. you can dial in the exact measurement...

How about a couple of pix to show the rest of us how you set this up?

mark
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« Reply #61 on: November 28, 2008, 02:29 AM »

I have been trying to upload photos..
each photo is 2mb .......too large to upload.. any ideas on how to reduce the size of the file to upload pics?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 02:30 AM by JEFF JOHNSON » Logged
Sparky977

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« Reply #62 on: November 28, 2008, 02:42 AM »

I have been trying to upload photos..
each photo is 2mb .......too large to upload.. any ideas on how to reduce the size of the file to upload pics?

You can post them to Flickr.com.  They have the option of resizing pictures. 
Upload the picture, then click on it.  At the top of your picture, you will find a link that says "All Sizes"
Click that, then pick whichever size of the picture you want.  It will give you the correct link to copy and paste into your thread post.
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TS 55, RO 125, CT 22 w/ Boomarm, Domino, OF 1400, RS2E, C12, MFT3, 4 guide rails (1080, 1400, 1900, and 2700), Sortainer, Router bit Systainer, Sandpaper Systainer, Domino Systainer
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« Reply #63 on: November 28, 2008, 11:28 AM »

Ok, my garage is gross, never finished the wainscoating.. will be a lot easier to finish now!!
Here are some pics of my steve jones inspired setup...
Needed to be able to put it together and break it down quickly.... probably will take 5-10 minutes to do...

I used two pairs of sawhorses with 2x4's as the base.. will probably make some rolling cabinets..but for now sawhorses are really easy for me to store.. very sturdy.. even stood on the table to screw eye bolts in the ceiling...

Here you can see basic set-up..
2 doors both 6'8" one is 30" wide one is 24" wide.
clamped together at first..then I attached the incra track fence on the front...it's 1 1/2 tall so i added a 3/4 strip underneath to bring it to the same height as the mdf.. also I don't think I will ever need it taller than that..
and used 3/4"mdf pieces on top.. through bolted and attached with wing nuts.. so they wouldn't move and easily removable.
woodpecker super tracks... were used for clamping.. they are amazing.. and versatile.. they are attached with hex nuts.. and thumbscrews underneath..
I simply loosen them and slide them back out of the way when ripping.... very easy..
« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 11:30 AM by JEFF JOHNSON » Logged
JEFF JOHNSON

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« Reply #64 on: November 28, 2008, 11:36 AM »

Here you can see the incra track.. and the supertrack.. I use the board attached to the super tracks to pull against the piece I am crosscutting..slides easily and guarantees even small pieces won't move..Here you can also see the notch out for the rail.. was easy to square up..
shop stop is amazing.. dials in to 1/32" and clicks in to exact measurement for crosscuts..

Here is where I store the sheets of plywood.. just a few sawhorses.. very easy to pull full sheets on to the table.. also nice to slide rips back on to the table afterword.. I set up a banquet table next to it.. and slid all my rips on to it..



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Sparky977

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« Reply #65 on: November 28, 2008, 11:38 AM »

Ok, my garage is gross, never finished the wainscoating.. will be a lot easier to finish now!!
Here are some pics of my steve jones inspired setup...
Needed to be able to put it together and break it down quickly.... probably will take 5-10 minutes to do...

I used two pairs of sawhorses with 2x4's as the base.. will probably make some rolling cabinets..but for now sawhorses are really easy for me to store.. very sturdy.. even stood on the table to screw eye bolts in the ceiling...
[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]
Here you can see basic set-up..
2 doors both 6'8" one is 30" wide one is 24" wide.
clamped together at first..then I attached the incra track fence on the front...it's 1 1/2 tall so i added a 3/4 strip underneath to bring it to the same height as the mdf.. also I don't think I will ever need it taller than that..
and used 3/4"mdf pieces on top.. through bolted and attached with wing nuts.. so they wouldn't move and easily removable.
woodpecker super tracks... were used for clamping.. they are amazing.. and versatile.. they are attached with hex nuts.. and thumbscrews underneath..
I simply loosen them and slide them back out of the way when ripping.... very easy..
[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]

Very nice, and quick to set up!  If I didn't have room for the table I built, I would probably do something similar to yours.  Whenever you are able to make your rolling cabinets, you could make them like mini sysports!  Smiley  Then, whenever you are done with the table you could just roll them right out of the way, but they are still useful for holding your systainers.  
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« Reply #66 on: November 28, 2008, 11:40 AM »

For this project.. I needed a lot of 15 3/4" x 74" pieces.. so I made another crosscut area on the right of the table which will allow me to do that as well when needed...I have to figure out a way to add another tape somewhere on the incra track or just measure.. but I still will be able to use the shop stop to reference the distance..

That's it!! I can dress this up alot.. I'm going to add some more supertrack.. it will be great to use this for clamping and assembly...copying a kreg table..
Pretty simple actually.. put it all together and calibrated in half a day.. will stay calibrated even after breakdown and reassembly cause of the super track and through bolts on the mdf..The great thing for those of you who need to be able to break it down and park a car in-between projects.. it can all fit on a shelf..
Cuts were dead on square...
Let me know what you think
I'm going to try and add a pic of how I do the rips...have to reduce the pic i took thanks sparky...
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JEFF JOHNSON

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« Reply #67 on: November 28, 2008, 11:45 AM »

Here you can see the setup for full sheet rips..just push the sheet against the fence.. and use story sticks... easy and very accurate.. I did have to take a small slice off the edge of the sheet first.. found out that they really aren't straight from the lumberyard!!

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JEFF JOHNSON

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« Reply #68 on: November 28, 2008, 11:59 AM »


shot of simple "boom arm" ... just eye hooks on the ceiling... two bungee's... I remove unhook one of the bungees to rip.. works great.. boom arm makes all the difference in the world not fighting with the hose and cord...
I also hung an air hose to blow dust off the fence..

Wanted to thank Steve Jones again for the inspiration...
Can't imagine working any other way....
Didn't have to ever pick up a sheet of plywood.. simply slide and cut... The two different crosscut points is huge.. and helps cause my table is only 7 foot long..
If anyone needed to make one like this for on-site work... could just use two doors..(flush doors.. solid core from home depot about 45$ each..) put an incra track on the close door.. stop on the back door.. line up the left edges of the doors to make sure it stays calibrated..bar clamp the tables together from underneath.. put it on sawhorses.. and cut away... I know many of you just use styrofoam.. and measure and try and square it up.. But having a front fence...makes square rips so much easier... pushing the work against it and make some story sticks... I used three sticks... I'll keep them and re-use them for any future 15 3/4" rips.. every time I have a different rip width... I'll just make some new ones..
Also, having the front and back stops makes cutting squares fast and effortless.. just dial in the exact distance... and cut away.. perfectly square every time!!
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JEFF JOHNSON

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« Reply #69 on: November 28, 2008, 12:03 PM »

sparky,
No doubt on the rolling cabinets.. your storage is amazing!!!  I am green with envy..
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Jesus Aleman

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« Reply #70 on: November 28, 2008, 08:22 PM »

Jeff, great setup.  I guess it wouldn't be too difficult to add a t-track and an Incra miter guage on the back side.  You are inspiring me to build a small cutting table until I can splurge on the MFT.

JGA.
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JEFF JOHNSON

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« Reply #71 on: November 28, 2008, 09:34 PM »

Jesus,
I just can't imagine how an mft could be more useful.. with the exception of mitre cuts... even then it would be no problem to add a mitre slot in a cutting table.. I just cut up a zillion cabinet parts today.. accurate and easy... no need at all for any extra support... didn't actually lift a piece of wood... some of the small squares... but everything else was slid between tables.. having all the room for the offcut was unbelievable.. Also thought it was going to be a pain dealing with the rail between cuts.. but I simply put it on top of the front fence and on the back fence.. had to move it maybe 6" each time.. I ripped 10 15 3/4"x74" pieces.. and 20 other square pieces... and other parts as well... easily!! butting the rail against the stops and cutting was a pleasure...
I did feel that for the smaller pieces I did need to secure the piece.. but I just unscrewed two nobs.. pulled the fence toward me and tightened.. it secured it and made sure it was square against the front fence... A table like this that Steve Jones designed is no doubt easier than a panel saw... I also croscutted full sheets first.. the full 48"... like steve described..   I also realized.. that if I had the clamps for it.. which are available.. I could easily drill 20mm holes and use festool table clamps anywhere.. or I could drill 3/4 inch holes and use other brands.. but I am going to add a couple more super-tracks... maybe on the edges as well for holding pieces verticle... with all the stuff available at woodpeckers... the possibilities are endless.. I had so much fun cutting up parts today...I am hooked.. Now I know why this is forum is here and why people love the tools so much.. the ts55, ct22 and rails are amazing... Felt like I was using hand tools instead of power tools..  I am always slow to recommend anything... but without a doubt no one would be dissapointed building a table like this.whether it is something that you could break down or a masterpiece like Steve's or Sparky's..Thank you Steve Jones!!! Anyone from a novice to a professional would benefit from this way of cutting up sheet goods!!! I will start assembling soon.. and I know that all that room will be nice to have...
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Deke

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« Reply #72 on: November 29, 2008, 10:35 AM »

Jeff, as a new owner of an MFT who still has the need to rip 4 x 8 sheets, I am truly envious! I'll say this, my MFT serves me very well as a stationary bench for cutting as well as clamping, outfeed for table saw and more, but it can't do what you are doing and what I need to do is what you are doing!

Minus the Festool stuff and the saw horses, what would you say the bench parts cost?
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Garry

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« Reply #73 on: November 29, 2008, 11:08 AM »

I don't have room in my shop (garage) for a large cutting/assembly table, so I've been using a cheap door on saw horses, which works fine, but isn't as stable as I'd like when I'm hefting sheetgoods onto it. 

This thread has inspired me to come up with some better way of doing things, so I think what I am going to attempt is  building a torsion box top with folding/locking legs that I can suspend from the ceiling when not in use.

I did make a rolling base for my MFT this weekend that raises it up to a more comfortable working height for me, and I "Garry-rigged" a boom arm substitute.  (A piece of cable tensioned between the supports for the garage door track and the garage door opener) with a couple of pulleys and some bungee.  What a difference that makes! 
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http://www.avidhome.com  This is for Fred > Kapex, TS75,TS55, MFT1080, CT22, CT-Mini, OF1400, MFK700, RO150, ETS150/3, DTS400, RTS400, DX93, RS2E, LS130, PS300, Domino, HL850, MFS700, LR32 Kit, 11 Sortainers, 6 extra systainers, and LOTS of Accessories.
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« Reply #74 on: November 29, 2008, 11:35 AM »

Deke,
Bench parts

Qty  Name                                  SKU            Each Sub Total
------------------------------------------------------------------------
3    Universal Track Clamp ea.             utc          $16.99    $50.97
2    Super Track - 48"                     SPT-48       $49.99    $99.98
1    Knob Kit - 12 pc                      13-KK-12      $5.95     $5.95
1    36" Woodpecker Story Stick            STRYSTK-36W   $34.95    $34.95
20   KNOB 1/4-20 Thru 5/8 Dia Knurled Brass 13-KN120P     $0.36     $7.20
1    Incra Track 36"                       TRACK36      $37.00    $37.00
1    Incra Track 18"                       TRACK18      $27.50    $27.50
1    Incra ShopSTOP                        SHPSTOP      $28.95    $28.95
1    Super Track - 24"                     SPT-24       $29.99    $29.99
1    T-Handle Vertical Toggle Clamp 12070  CLA12070      $9.50     $9.50
2    Hold Down Clamp, Pivot, Non-Slip      HDCG-PIV-WP    $6.99    $13.98
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                   Sub Total     $345.97

Story Stick isn't necessary.... supertrack is expensive... but you could get away with one 48" the one pictured closest to my rail... Got to do the incra track.. or kreg version... so could have easily spent 200$ or so plus the 125$ for the two doors and mdf...


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Sparky977

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« Reply #75 on: November 29, 2008, 02:02 PM »

Just for another option for people, this is very similar to the knock down table that I use to use.  The version I used was in a woodworking magazine that I can't find at the moment.  It was nice because it was very easy to set up and take down.  Granted, there was no fence or anything.  It was purely for basic cutting down to smaller sizes.  I used a square to make perpendicular cuts.  Table saw for parallel cuts after the pieces were a more manageable size.  It was very nice for taking to the job site.
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TS 55, RO 125, CT 22 w/ Boomarm, Domino, OF 1400, RS2E, C12, MFT3, 4 guide rails (1080, 1400, 1900, and 2700), Sortainer, Router bit Systainer, Sandpaper Systainer, Domino Systainer
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« Reply #76 on: November 30, 2008, 11:00 AM »

Garry,
Do you have room to add another door and pair of sawhorses?
put a fence on one and a stop on the other...
The doors need to be around 50" in width combined... line up the edges and squeeze them together with a bar clamp from underneath...

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Garry

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« Reply #77 on: November 30, 2008, 09:31 PM »

Garry,
Do you have room to add another door and pair of sawhorses?
put a fence on one and a stop on the other...
The doors need to be around 50" in width combined... line up the edges and squeeze them together with a bar clamp from underneath...



I could probably swing that, but I want to build the torsion box, anyway.  My logic is that I'll eventually be able to use it on a permanent base...

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http://www.avidhome.com  This is for Fred > Kapex, TS75,TS55, MFT1080, CT22, CT-Mini, OF1400, MFK700, RO150, ETS150/3, DTS400, RTS400, DX93, RS2E, LS130, PS300, Domino, HL850, MFS700, LR32 Kit, 11 Sortainers, 6 extra systainers, and LOTS of Accessories.
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« Reply #78 on: December 5, 2008, 12:05 AM »

Looks good Jeff. Can you post pic's of the underneath? Wondering how everything is connected together and if attached to horses?
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Les (near Indy)
Dave Ronyak

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Flyin' from NE Ohio


« Reply #79 on: December 22, 2008, 04:24 PM »

Jeff,

Yours is a great cutting table project.   Thanks for sharing the many details of how you built it and how you use it.

If only I had the space....

Although smaller in width, I think a line of MFTs connected together could be used to create a similar cutting table.  When MFTs are arranged end to end, F-style clamps can be inserted and slid quickly to any desired position along the top channels of the abutting side rails of the MFTs, much like you can do with clamps inserted into your embedded track sections.

Dave R.
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« Reply #80 on: February 6, 2009, 09:00 AM »

Steve Jones....Thanks for your inspiration!  I just bought  the Festool TS 55EQ and CT 22 E to expand my business!

I currently do cabinet finishing for several cabinet shops in So California but due to the slow down in the economy
many of the shops have closed their doors or have started to do their own finishing to stay busy. I have several
complete kitchens to build for customers and am excited to get started.

I only have one question on your setup...where did you get the the screw type adjustable stop on the right hand side of the fence?

I have searched for it on the Kreg web site but don't seem to find it.

I will post pictures of my setup when I am done.

Thanks in advance for all your help.

Andy
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Steve Jones

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« Reply #81 on: February 6, 2009, 09:47 AM »

Andy,

Congratulations on your new purchases, I've had the TS55 now for a couple of years and must have cut miles of plywood with it, and I still get a kick out of how well it does it's job.

The right hand stop is simply an old flip stop I had around the shop fitted with a flat headed bolt (actually an allen screw) with two knurled brass knobs to lock it in place, the bolt fitted through one of the holes provided in the stop. I also have a Kreg flip stop in the shop (used on my miter saw stand) and it also has holes for a similar adjustable bolt.

Steve
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JEFF JOHNSON

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« Reply #82 on: February 13, 2009, 11:25 PM »

Andy,

First off, you found the right inspiration in Steve... His table design has saved me hours and hours!!! and my back... Here is a link for the incra shopstop that works with incra track... I have the track on the left and right as my front fence.. the stop has a rod that sticks out the left side for use on the right fence...
you use tape measures... that slide... calibrate it once on each side and you are done.. the stop clicks in 1/32" inch increments.. it is incredible... I have often repeated the same exact measurement on cuts... after setting up different cuts... with absolute precision.  Here's the link...
http://www.woodpeck.com/shopstop.html

Thanks to steve's design,
In the last few weeks I have carved up probably 75 cabinet parts for my mudroom and laundry room with ease... never lifting full sheets at all... just dial in the crosscutt dimension on the stop.... but the festool rail against the front and back stops and cut away... effortless... and accurate... unbelievable..
I know many on this forum use different types of tables...etc.... but they all have to measure up each cut, and square it up... etc... I'm telling you I can cut up 4 sheets in the same time it takes any other method to cut one... and it is completely repeatable... getting exactly the same size panels... key for cabinet making.. when face frames have to line up...

Thanks again steve... a life saver...

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fourxguy

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« Reply #83 on: February 18, 2009, 10:39 AM »

Jeff Johnson,

Thanks for the stop tip! I will put in an order today. I have cut a ton of pre finished maple plywood for
a bookshelf/entertainment center for one of my best customers and I am amazed at how accurate the parts are
once stacked up. I have 32 book shelves that are all cut nice and square and are all within .010 of an inch of each other.

I am not using the chip guard on my TS55 and find that there is no tear out on the off cut pieces. I invested a couple
thousand dollars in Festools with the thought that I would probably take them back in 30 days if I wasn't 100 percent satisfied.
So far a I am amazed with all of the stuff and mostly the great support on this forum.

Many thanks for you helpful suggestions.

Andy Lopez

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JEFF JOHNSON

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« Reply #84 on: March 2, 2009, 10:44 AM »

Unfortunately... had to break down my cutting table last night... done with major projects for a little while... and have to finish off wainscoating.. and painting the garage... Came apart really easy took about 5 minutes... leaned everything against the wall... will put it on a shelf once I can find the floor in my adjacent basement room!  Table has been a dream for my cubbies.. bench seat.. and laundry room projects in "member projects"...
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