Author Topic: Dust collection manifold?  (Read 3819 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 145
Dust collection manifold?
« on: July 29, 2018, 05:59 AM »
I've set up my mft workstation with a systainer cart under the table. The cart has a top shelf where I keep my ts55, domino, sander, and jigsaw out and ready to use. They are all plugged into a power strip which is plugged into a ct 26.

I also have a dust deputy connected. The idea is that I can walk over, crosscut, join, sand etc. without having to pull out and connect tools. It's a workstation ready made for instant dust "less" use.

The problem is I ended up with a horrible concoction of 3 Festool "Y" fittings hanging off of the dust deputy that ends up looking like the Charlie Brown Christmas Tree (it's a little bit better if 1 of them goes straight into the ct26 with the dust deputy on 1 port and say a sander on the other).

Has anyone created a dust collection manifold for this type of use? Maybe one with gates to alleviate the loss of suction with several tools concurrently attached.

Would love to find a ready to buy solution - or at least photos of something that has been created before (possibly with auto open gates).

Thoughts?
"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do almost anything, with nothing at all."

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Online Gregor

  • Posts: 977
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2018, 10:20 AM »
Try https://www.grngate.com/ - just don't follow their manual in regards to tinning the wire ends.

Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 145
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2018, 11:09 AM »
Thanx - I've looked at their stuff - problem is that it's all 4", and very large.

I'm looking for a 2 1/2" compact manifold to hang behind an mft, with or without auto gates.

I did find this by Peter:



I guess I could build a manifold like Peter's with no gates. So far I haven't had significant suction problems using 3 "Y"'s on the dust deputy/ct26 setup. OR - I could build on with gates and try leaving them open

My main goal is to walk up and use the tools with no connecting, opening, switching of hoses, or turning on the dust collection (which I can do now, but it's crude, ugly, cumbersome, and I'm sure suction actually IS compromised.

Was really hoping there was a commercial ready to go solution.

And I haven't found any 2 1/2" auto gates anywhere, just 4" and larger.

There are tens of thousands of 2 1/2" vacuums being used, and an increasing emphasis on the health hazards of dust - seems like a market looking for a product.
"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do almost anything, with nothing at all."

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 11526
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2018, 12:38 PM »
I don’t know if you can get some ideas for this but here is a video:



Peter

Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 145
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2018, 05:26 PM »
Thanx Peter. Yes - good ideas there. I had also seen the one where he made one out of white pvc pipe. He's right - it's pretty clunky.

Perhaps I can make a linear one out of a series of Wye's (and turn each Wye out with a 45), and include it in a rectangular wooden box that can be bolted to the back, bottom, or end of the mft with a power strip attached.

Still looking for auto opening 2 1/2" gates. Please let me know if anyone is aware of them.
"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do almost anything, with nothing at all."

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 668
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2018, 10:39 PM »
Still looking for auto opening 2 1/2" gates.
I would buy a couple 2.5" blast gates in a heart beat if they were available.

Swapping hoses back and forth today I screwed up and had the wrong hose plugged in when I used my saw. Oops!

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 807
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2018, 12:48 AM »
Does iVac offer 2-1/2" gates? I don't believe they did when I bought some of their sensors and switches a few years ago.

I have their switches on most of my tools and the one controller that starts my dust collector. You can link up to 8 sensors (at the tools) to one switch (at the dust collector) and they have 120 and 220volt models which can both be used with the same switch. So my 220v TS as well as all my 120V tools can all start the same dust collector.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 145
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2018, 06:48 AM »
I didn't see any 2 1/2" models on Ivacs site. I'm glad you told me about your system, as I have several 220v large tools connected to a 3 hp Oneida collector, and I hadn't noticed that they have 220v triggers. I also have a few 6" gates so it could get expensive. The table saw, miter saw, bandsaw, and jointer/planer all have 6" gates.

I keep vacillating between hooking my mft station to the Oneida system or to the ct26 - mainly because the ct comes on automatically, and I have to use a remote and manually open a gate to use the Oneida (so at the mft I would have to open the appropriate 2 1/2" gate, then a 4" gate, then trigger the remote - or eliminate the 4" gate, but have to remember to keep all those small gates closed....).
"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do almost anything, with nothing at all."

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 4047
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2018, 07:29 AM »
The kit that I used in my video came from Axminster here in the UK. They will ship world wide and sometimes it is not as expensive as you might think.

I did check to see if Lee Valley had a similar set of parts but with no success.

This is what you get for just over $130 from Axminster:
https://www.axminster.co.uk/63mm-dust-extraction-kit-410063

You can get a delivery quote very easily from their export sales people.

EDIT:
I was curious about the cost of shipping so I just spoke to Axminster's Export sales people. If you go to their web site, change your currency to US $ and then follow the various instructions after giving your shipping address then you will get an automatic quote. I am told that the quote will be less than talking with the export sales staff as they now have an automated world-wide shipping system tat gives instant quotes at very competitive rates.

I am not sure how many different currencies are available but the system should work for everyone. I did note that orders over Euro 90 are shipped free within the European Union.

Peter
« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 07:59 AM by Peter Parfitt »

Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 145
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2018, 08:15 AM »
Thanx Peter - it's a trade-off.

Buy plumbing fittings locally on the cheap and take the time to make them fit, or buy this kit with pipe I don't need and bolt it together.

The tees will be a little more restrictive than wyes, but the overall length will be shorter. Apparently you didn't have any flow problems?

I recently bought some knipex from amazon.de (recommended by another thread here), and after shipping actually saved almost 50%, so I'm not afraid of buying internationally. I bought your mft kit from Axminster before Lee Valley started importing them.

I really like your manifold box, and can see it fastened under the end of the mft with easy access to the gates and power strip.

Still looking for auto gates!
"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do almost anything, with nothing at all."

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 4047
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2018, 09:04 AM »
Keeping the 63 mm pipe will help future proof your dust collection as you never know when it might come in handy.

For all to use free of charge for their own personal use here are some photos and a simple drawing.









Peter

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 4047
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2018, 09:08 AM »
I should have said that the fat end of a Festool hose fits into the blast gate very well. With one hose (it is not the blast gate) I had to put one layer of tape around the hose end as it was for some reason about 1 mm under size.

Peter

Offline guitarchitect

  • Posts: 59
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2018, 09:44 AM »
Thanx Peter - it's a trade-off.

Buy plumbing fittings locally on the cheap and take the time to make them fit, or buy this kit with pipe I don't need and bolt it together.

The tees will be a little more restrictive than wyes, but the overall length will be shorter. Apparently you didn't have any flow problems?

I recently bought some knipex from amazon.de (recommended by another thread here), and after shipping actually saved almost 50%, so I'm not afraid of buying internationally. I bought your mft kit from Axminster before Lee Valley started importing them.

I really like your manifold box, and can see it fastened under the end of the mft with easy access to the gates and power strip.

Still looking for auto gates!

Something I've considered is getting a central vacuum pipe set - they typically have swept T's as well as 45 degree connectors. Probably needs a bit of tweaking to make everything fit just right but it's a cost-effective alternative to workshop-specific stuff and depending on the brand you can get lots of accessories for cleaning up that are cheaper that bosch/festool's offerings.

In terms of blast gates I've seen DIY stuff that involves controllers but it's all a bit too involved... i feel like it would be easier to get 4" pre-made auto blast gates and figure out a way to make them work with 2.5" hoses... just reduce the openings with inset MDF or plywood or something. Aside from iVac, Nordfab makes auto blast gates but I'm not sure what the smallest size is... if you talk to them let us know what the pricing is like!

Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 145
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2018, 10:19 PM »
Nordfab makes a 3", but they are several hundred dollars each - for industrial use!
"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do almost anything, with nothing at all."

Offline guitarchitect

  • Posts: 59
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2018, 10:58 PM »
Nordfab makes a 3", but they are several hundred dollars each - for industrial use!

Well that's that - I guess you should look at infilling 4" iVac units!

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 668
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2018, 01:29 AM »
I did a little research today and found lots of folks are building their own automatic blast gates, often from scratch. Easiest though is to use an aluminum manufactured blast gate and attach a servo to it. Just haven't figured out which servo and how to control it yet, but cost should be under $50 each. Still would need the Ivac setup or the like to control the blast gates automatically, but there are still questions.

Does the Ivac switching device leave the last gate used open? Or does it shut the gate every time the tool is turned off? How does the Ivac controller engage the solenoid?

Pneumatic is not an option, only electric for mobility. I would like to mount it all somewhere on my CT36.

Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 145
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2018, 07:01 AM »
So glad that I'm not alone in my desire to automate this economically.

I'd seen that others were building their own, but that's generally out of my realm of experience.

Curious about both ideas:

Building an inexpensive servo for metal gates (could be time consuming) OR
Infilling Ivac gates - maybe with pvc donuts (concerned about the overall size of the gates)

My ultimate goal is to be able to pick up an already connected tool, use it, and move on to the next tool/process.
"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do almost anything, with nothing at all."

Offline guitarchitect

  • Posts: 59
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2018, 09:18 AM »
So glad that I'm not alone in my desire to automate this economically.

I'd seen that others were building their own, but that's generally out of my realm of experience.

Curious about both ideas:

Building an inexpensive servo for metal gates (could be time consuming) OR
Infilling Ivac gates - maybe with pvc donuts (concerned about the overall size of the gates)

My ultimate goal is to be able to pick up an already connected tool, use it, and move on to the next tool/process.

I'll say that every time I DIY something like this, it becomes a "new hobby" and the thing sometimes ends up collecting dust. If you aren't really keen on maintaining and troubleshooting a bunch of custom servo gates, you should go with something off-the-shelf. My understanding of a power-draw automatic blast gate is that you need both the actuator/servo to drive the gate up+down, but you also need something to sense the power draw to turn that servo on/off. It gets more complicated if the gate needs to be "driven" down, because the servo needs to be told "reverse direction if power flow stops" as opposed to just going on/off with the tool. That's when you get into controller boards that are linked to the outlet that your tool is on. This is why every iVac needs to be plugged in, and you end up with wires everywhere

After some more thinking, I wonder if instead of infilling the iVac gates if you couldn't just put a 4" -> 2.5" adapter on each side of it. I don't know enough about air flow on an engineering level to know if this will cause a SP loss or any other complications because of turbulence but it would sidestep any issues caused by infilling. I guess the key consideration would be to continue your antistatic path across the gate! It would be quite the pricey manifold though...

Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 145
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2018, 07:56 PM »
Pricey, yeah - and big too.

I may proceed with a box similar to Peter's, and use it till auto gates materialize.
"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do almost anything, with nothing at all."

Offline guitarchitect

  • Posts: 59
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2018, 10:19 AM »
Pricey, yeah - and big too.

I may proceed with a box similar to Peter's, and use it till auto gates materialize.

This is the best DIY implementation I've seen! I think the servos seem a little under-powered for the blast gates, but it seems that the system works overall.



It would be pretty neat to combine this with Parfitt's Manifold, and as long as you never disconnect your tools to use them elsewhere in your shop it could be a pretty great system. I can just imagine myself building the whole thing and then, after finally getting back to doing real projects, realizing that I need to take my tracksaw to the other side of the shop! I'm constantly torn between the perfect setup that requires a tonne of investment of time and money and design (i can never settle on a design for fear of screwing it up), or just wheeling my CT around to do what + where I need.

Offline fritter63

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 1391
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2018, 12:27 AM »

Would love to find a ready to buy solution - or at least photos of something that has been created before (possibly with auto open gates).

Thoughts?

I'd be willing to work with you designing a manifold (and doing the CAD work) that could be 3D printed, say at Shapeways.com

Shouldn't be too difficult. Let me know.

Offline fritter63

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 1391
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2018, 12:45 AM »
Is this what you were thinking?


Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 668
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2018, 12:52 AM »
Hmmm...a triple auto blast gate would have been nice to have today, and now I want one. RO90 with a D27 hose, OF1010 on another D27 hose, and a TS55 on a D36 hose. I had the three hoses in use today, and a triple tap plugged into the CT36, just need all the automatic blast gate components. At least today I had the right hoses plugged in for the tools I was using.

Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 145
Re: Dust collection manifold?
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2018, 08:48 PM »
For my purposes a linear series of 3 or 4 ports makes more sense. I'm wanting to fasten it closely under the top of an MFT, and have the gates handy to reach.

A V shaped collector like you've drawn is probably more efficient in air flow, but would seem harder to mount, stabilize,  open/close the gates, and require two hands to change hoses.
"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do almost anything, with nothing at all."