Festool Owners Group

FESTOOL DISCUSSIONS => Festool Jigs & Tool Enhancements => Topic started by: jussi on January 21, 2018, 10:15 PM

Title: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: jussi on January 21, 2018, 10:15 PM
Advertisement for this just popped up for me.  Is this just re-branded by TSO or completely different company?

https://www.festoolproducts.com/insta-railsquare-festool-makita-track-saw-square.html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwaPH38zq2AIVDZNkCh2QMAuGEAEYASAFEgKBW_D_BwE
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: SRSemenza on January 21, 2018, 11:05 PM
Not TSO. See this topic  http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-sales-dealer-area/new-guide-rail-square-made-in-canada/


Seth
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: ben_r_ on January 22, 2018, 12:30 PM
Completely different product.
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: Shane Holland on January 22, 2018, 12:50 PM
Completely different product.

Not completely different at all. They are very similar. I certainly don't want to fuel a debate on the merits of each, but the rail square that we offer works in much the same way and ultimately do the same task of providing a quick, accurate way of achieving 90 degree cuts with your rail.

That said, the one we offer is not manufactured by TSO. It is manufactured in Canada.

I realize there are a lot of TSO fans on the forum. Hans and his team make great products. This is just another option.

Shane
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: ben_r_ on January 22, 2018, 01:37 PM
Completely different product.

Not completely different at all. They are very similar. I certainly don't want to fuel a debate on the merits of each, but the rail square that we offer works in much the same way and ultimately do the same task of providing a quick, accurate way of achieving 90 degree cuts with your rail.

That said, the one we offer is not manufactured by TSO. It is manufactured in Canada.

I realize there are a lot of TSO fans on the forum. Hans and his team make great products. This is just another option.

Shane
Oh I just mean completely different product from the TSO one. Functionally they do the same thing. Wasn't trying to start a debate. Im for whichever is cheaper and does the job just as well in this case!
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: mrgeigh on January 22, 2018, 02:53 PM
Does the TSO square accept bench dogs like the Insta-Square? Seems like a nice feature.
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: Shane Holland on January 22, 2018, 02:55 PM
Does the TSO square accept bench dogs like the Insta-Square? Seems like a nice feature.

No, it does not.

This feature was an addition made in the second generation of the Insta-Railsquare.
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: ChuckM on January 22, 2018, 05:55 PM
Does anyone know if the deficiency mentioned in this video about the Canadian version (damaging the track) is still true?

http://forum.toolsinaction.com/topic/13073--toolnut/

Thanks.
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: Shane Holland on January 22, 2018, 06:06 PM
We’ve sold a lot of these and I’ve not seen or heard a single complaint about them damaging rails.
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: ChuckM on January 22, 2018, 06:28 PM
Thanks, Shane. The video did show a slight indentation on the tester's track.

Any idea why they put a recess there instead of a straight edge? If it is there to give an extra grip or pull, then indeed there is a risk of deformation if the latch is too strong.
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: Shane Holland on January 22, 2018, 08:46 PM
Thanks, Shane. The video did show a slight indentation on the tester's track.

Any idea why they put a recess there instead of a straight edge? If it is there to give an extra grip or pull, then indeed there is a risk of deformation if the latch is too strong.

Chuck, I've never asked the manufacturer about the design, but I certainly can and see what (if any) purpose that serves. I'll keep you posted.

Like I said, I know of no issues with the Insta-Railsquare. There are a total of 20 reviews between our two websites for this product and all of them are positive. All 5 stars with the exception of two which are 4 stars. We wouldn't be selling these if we were being bombarded by customers with damaged rails.

I won't comment on the claims or video. Those considering a rail square can decide which product is right for them based on the features, price, reviews, etc. that are important to them.

Shane
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: ChuckM on January 22, 2018, 09:40 PM


Chuck, I've never asked the manufacturer about the design, but I certainly can and see what (if any) purpose that serves. I'll keep you posted.
Shane

Appreciate that.
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: bnaboatbuilder on January 22, 2018, 10:53 PM
I've had an Insta RailSquare for 6 months. I use it with 3 rails mainly, 32", 55", 75", switch out often as needed. No bent rails. Accurate no fuss cuts. Just over the last few months, have cut up many dozens of sheets of ply.

The biggest challenge is plywood itself, even higher priced sheets from Murphy and Columbia aren't square sheets to begin with, edges are rough. Start with a full sheet straight edge cut, then start crosscutting as needed.

The few times I don't use the square are when a rail is barely long enough for plunging before and exiting after for the cut size. The Insta does take away 6 inches of usable rail. I don't always want to mess around with an unnecessarily long rail for a crosscut.

A few weeks back doing on site work for a week in a restaurant. Didn't want to take a miter saw. Used the Insta and 32" rail for trim crosscuts. Cordless Makita track saw, Mafell dust bag. Simple, easy, accurate and refreshing not lugging around my heavy Makita miter saw.

It's one of those tools I would never be without now.
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: Shane Holland on January 22, 2018, 11:32 PM
Thanks for the feedback on the Insta-Railsquare, John. Good to see a paying customer and respected forum member give their firsthand experience with it.  [thumbs up]

So, I heard back from the manufacturer. The "notch", for lack of a better word even though that seems like an exaggeration since it's so tiny, is a design feature. According to them, based on their testing the notch improves accuracy compared to other rail squares and their original prototype version.

Again, all I can tell you is to read the reviews on our website from paying customers and decide for yourself.
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: ChuckM on January 23, 2018, 12:40 AM
Thanks to both for your comments that have answered my questions regarding the Insta rail.
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: Mario Turcot on January 23, 2018, 10:05 AM
I recently purchased the inta-railsquare. In my case it was ~55$ cheaper. I only use it to rip two sheets of BB so far and I am pleased with the result.

I can see how the rail can get damaged, if when you clamp it you do NOT push the clamping mechanism right to the rail bottom. This may occur with the TSO version as well.

Note: In one of the video from the insta-railguide, I believe it's the one from Tool Nut, it mention that the tool store into the TS55 systainer. Perhaps I have a different version but mine do NOT fit unless I modify the insert.
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: Shane Holland on January 23, 2018, 10:13 AM
Note: In one of the video from the insta-railguide, I believe it's the one from Tool Nut, it mention that the tool store into the TS55 systainer. Perhaps I have a different version but mine do NOT fit unless I modify the insert.

@Mario Turcot,

Here's a photo of it in the Systainer, below.
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: Mario Turcot on January 23, 2018, 11:04 AM
Shane, you did photoshop this just for me right  [tongue].

I will check tonight if from that angle it fits. If so I will retract,if not I will have to find you some punishment  [big grin]
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: ChuckM on January 23, 2018, 11:22 AM

I can see how the rail can get damaged, if when you clamp it you do NOT push the clamping mechanism right to the rail bottom. This may occur with the TSO version as well.



Great user feedback! Thanks, Mario. I will bear your observation in mind, no matter which square I end up buying.

Perhaps, manufacturers should consider adding your advisory to their product literature (if any) to keep any user error to a minimum.
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: bnaboatbuilder on January 23, 2018, 11:56 AM
If a user can't operate either of these rail squares, then my suggestion is that they shouldn't be operating any tool, nor building anything someone else relies on.

Using these squares is about like handing an iphone to a 2 year old, instant understanding and usability.

Not trying to be snarky, just these things are stupidly easy, slide square into rail slot, get hook attached to outer slot, close down on the spring clamp.
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: ChuckM on January 23, 2018, 12:16 PM

Not trying to be snarky, just these things are stupidly easy, slide square into rail slot, get hook attached to outer slot, close down on the spring clamp.

There is no harm done if, based on what we did see in the video that does show some kind of deformation, a manufacturer points out where a user can do wrong, is there?

The easy way you described of its use is exactly how a user, not being aware of the point Mario made above -- could get wrong: simply slide it without paying attention to whether or not the latch is on the bottom of the slot before he clamps it.

Anyone can operate the rail square including the one who posted the video and experienced a deformation on his track! As a potential user of a rail square, I am thankful for Mario's caution.
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: Mario Turcot on January 23, 2018, 10:10 PM
My sincere apologize, the inta-square fit pretty well in the systainer. Mine fit on a different angle tho. Must be because I have a Lefty TS55  [tongue]
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: TSO Products on January 25, 2018, 11:17 AM
 As the inventor of the Patent Pending GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE we continue to go to great lengths to support our products and purchasers.

While we await issuance of our US and International Patents, purchasing the imitation deprives TSO of the incremental income to continue to innovate.

We appreciate the continuing support of our worldwide customer base who do enable us to move forward.

Hans
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: Slartibartfass on February 01, 2018, 06:32 PM
As the inventor of the Patent Pending GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE we continue to go to great lengths to support our products and purchasers.

While we await issuance of our US and International Patents, purchasing the imitation deprives TSO of the incremental income to continue to innovate.

We appreciate the continuing support of our worldwide customer base who do enable us to move forward.

Hans

You have me as a customer..... Malte
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: Job and Knock on April 15, 2018, 07:21 AM
It would be interesting if anyone could comment on a newer squaring attachment which has appeared on eBay UK in recent months called a Pallette 370. It is little more than a plate of ally with an alignment bar welded to the top, a screw-down attachment bar and a couple of spring clamps, so really basic - but mine is square and it works well on thin materials, too.

[attach=1]
[attach=2]

[attach=3]

It really could do with a longer rail, though, when cross cutting 4ft (2440mm) of plywood - more so with the Makita saws which have a greater distance between the rail adjustment "thingies".  I feel a 1900mm rail purchase coming. Comes in Makita colours as well.

[attach=4]

At that price it's cheap enough to take to the job site without worrying about damaging it. It also fits into a Systainer as well.

A "steal" at under £50 I reckon. But is this also patent/copyright infringement?
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: Mario Turcot on April 15, 2018, 07:01 PM
Oopsy moment
Title: Re: Insta-RailSquare Track Saw Square
Post by: TSO Products on April 15, 2018, 07:36 PM
It would be interesting if anyone could comment on a newer squaring attachment which has appeared on eBay UK in recent months called a Pallette 370. It is little more than a plate of ally with an alignment bar welded to the top, a screw-down attachment bar and a couple of spring clamps, so really basic - but mine is square and it works well on thin materials, too.

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

It really could do with a longer rail, though, when cross cutting 4ft (2440mm) of plywood - more so with the Makita saws which have a greater distance between the rail adjustment "thingies".  I feel a 1900mm rail purchase coming. Comes in Makita colours as well.

(Attachment Link)

At that price it's cheap enough to take to the job site without worrying about damaging it. It also fits into a Systainer as well.

A "steal" at under £50 I reckon. But is this also patent/copyright infringement?

thanks for the chuckle: A "steal" . . .at under GBP 50.

Come to think of it, we don't recall being asked for permission to "borrow" TSO's  US and International Patents Pending intellectual property.
In fact we have not "loaned it to anyone.