Author Topic: MFT 90* Square  (Read 9920 times)

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Offline Woodwork Wizard

  • Posts: 431
MFT 90* Square
« on: February 09, 2016, 06:52 AM »
It's a big triangle of 18mm ply with a strip of 12mm MDF glued and pinned to one side. Because the MDF gives it an overall height of 30mm it butts up against the guide rail, making checking for square very easy without lowering the height of the guide rail.

Adjusting the height of the guide rail brackets to cut different thicknesses of sheet goods may alter the accuracy of the MFT so this device will be useful for that issue too.




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Offline Latech15

  • Posts: 5
Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2016, 09:36 AM »
What was your method for determining absolute square on the plywood?  Not questioning, I just found myself questioning everything that I ever held to be true and square in my shop the other day after I determined by measuring corner to corner, that the large rafter square that I have and my drafting square are both out of square.

Offline Woodwork Wizard

  • Posts: 431
Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2016, 05:06 PM »
I used the 5 square cut method, measured with digital calipers, corrected the guide rail/error to within something so tiny it really makes no difference, then cut the triangle on the MFT. I do realise that you do need to have your MFT already set accurately to accomplish this, but now I can check it whenever I adjust the guide rail height, remove the rail or just want to make sure the guide rail is at 90*.




 







Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5068
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Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2016, 02:21 AM »
You best come to Jobby connect this summer, maybe we can get you to demo how you make some of your jigs.

Good stuff buddy

Offline Anderson-Plywood

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  • Posts: 52
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Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2016, 12:56 PM »
You can also use phenolic plywood for this purpose.

Pretty sure you already know about Euro Color Ply phenolic plywoods, in case not, here are some more info:

Euro Color Ply is an ideal material for the furniture and joinery industries. Its features provide smooth and superior surfaces that are ready for use. The panels are rigid and often used for making jigs and tooling as they are extremely durable.

Size: 2' x 4' (24" x 48")
Thickness: 3/4" (19mm)
Color: Green, Light Brown, Dark Brown, Black, Red, White
Number of Plys: 14 Plys

Advantages:
Environmentally friendly, durable, easily workable, hygienic, odour free, easy-to-clean, wear-resistant, weather- and water-proof, resists commonly used chemicals. Riga Form for shuttering can be re-used many times.

Characteristics of Overlay:
Surface with an overlay is smooth, glossy and hard. It resists abrasion, it is weather and moisture proof and resists commonly used chemicals, dilute acids and alkalis. The surface is easy to clean with water or steam.

Applications:
  • Jigs and tooling
  • Desks, table tops, shelves
  • Fittings for kitchens, offices, shops
  • Garden furniture
  • Signs, billboards

Click here to order!


Anderson Plywood's Layout Square for MFT Table is also made from the same material:

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Anderson Plywood

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www.andersonplywood.com

Offline Anderson-Plywood

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Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2018, 11:52 PM »
Good news! Our Layout Square is now available on Amazon.com, and it ships free for Amazon Prime users!
You may use the link in our signature line.
-----------
Anderson Plywood

Ask Us Questions, We Are Here To Help.

Largest Festool Distributor in Southern California
With a Vast Range of Festool Products, Hard to Find Parts and Accessories





www.andersonplywood.com

Offline mattbyington

  • Posts: 117
Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2018, 12:39 AM »
I know this is an old thread but - how do you move the guide rail when it's locked height-wise (black things down)? Doesn't that lock it to the track and it can't be moved?

I have had trouble perfectly squaring mine because after doing so I have to change the height.

I wish Festool would have designed something that could move while locked height-wise (and then locked from sliding w/ the same black knob).

Matt

Offline jobsworth

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Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2018, 12:55 PM »
Try useing 2 protractors/angle stops on the fence and do away with that little black do hickey festool provides for securing the fence.

I hace no issues when raising or lowering the rail or even banging the fence every now and then.

Offline mattbyington

  • Posts: 117
Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2018, 11:08 PM »
Thanks @jobsworth . You're talking about the guide rail right? I am talking about the guide rail - the thing the saw rides on. Not the fence at the back of MFT. Not sure how the protractor head would work for the guide rail - maybe I am missing a secret :)

Offline jobsworth

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Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2018, 01:18 AM »
Ive never had to re adjust the rail after raising the height.

 Once I got the fence and rail set to 90 it stays at 90.

Do you have a slop stop on your rail? That seems to help.

Im trying to figure out what the issue is.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3385
Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2018, 08:52 AM »
In theory you just square the rail to the fence while the rail is laying on the table and then raise the rail to the work height and go. In practice significantly changing the height of the rail often does change the angle slightly.

As designed the MFT requires you to leave the rail where it is and adjust the fence so there is no need to be able to move the rail after the height is locked.

Some people prioritize keeping the fence parallel to the holes. This is contrary to the design of the MFT and will cause unnecessary difficulty in making adjustments.

As designed, the holes in the MFT are for clamps not precision positioning. While they are set out in a regular pattern and “pretty close” to precise they may or may not be “good enough” for your intended use if that is other than passing clamps through.

As designed, you set the rail snug on the work and lock the height clamps front and back. Then you adjust the fence to the angle (relative to the rail) that you need. The difficulty here is that rail is often too far above the fence to use any readily available reference tool to see if the angle is right. It would be nice if Anderson made a square that is twice as thick (and not all cuts need to be square) but as Roger Savaterri says, “good cutting hygiene requires that you test the cut” and then make adjustments. You may have used the best reference tool in the world (with the rail set to 1/4” height so you had good registration of the tool to the fence and rail) but the actual cut might still be off.

For me using the MFT as designed makes the most sense. My oldest table is 15 years old and it has only two kerf cuts, one on top and one on the bottom (the original top).
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 12:25 AM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4672
Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2018, 09:24 AM »

As designed, the holes in the MFT are for clamps not precision positioning. While they are set out in a regular pattern and “pretty close” to precise they may or may not be “good enough” for your intended use if that is other than passing clamps through.


This was confirmed by a Woodpeckers designer recently when he took 3 Festool MFT tops and measured the dog hole pattern on their in-house vision system.

Offline JZ Bowmannz

  • Posts: 140
Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2018, 09:36 AM »
In theory you just square the rail to the fence while the rail is laying on the table and then raise the rail to the work height and go. In practice significantly changing the height of the rail often does change the angle slightly.

As designed the MFT requires you to leave the rail where it is and adjust the fence so there is no need to be able to move the rail after the height is locked.

Some people prioritize keeping the fence parallel to the holes. This is contrary to the design of the MFT and will cause unnec
essary difficulty in making adjustments.

As designed, the holes in the MFT are for clamps not precision positioning. While they are set out in a regular pattern and “pretty close” to precise they may or may not be “good enough” for your intended use if that is other than passing clamps through.

As designed, you set the rail snug on the work and lock the height clamps front and back. Then you adjust the fence to the he angle (relative to the rail) that you need. The difficulty here is that rail is often too far above the fence to use any readily available reference tool to see if the angle is right. It would be nice if Anderson made a square that is twice as thick (and not all cuts need to be square) but as Roger Savaterri says, “good cutting hygiene requires that you test the cut” and then make adjustments. You may have used the best reference tool in the world (with the rail set to 1/4” height so you had good registration of the tool to the fence and rail) but the actual cut might still not be off.

For me using the MFT as designed makes the most sense. My oldest table is 15 years old and it has only two kerf cuts, one on top and one on the bottom (the original top).

All above procedures. In addition, I lock the rail at the right height, and use a pair of 1-2-3 parallel setup block between rail and my known square to adjust the fence. When cutting height has to be changed, check with setup block again, it takes less than a couple of minutes.

The setup block is 1" x 2" x 3", and they are precision grounded and hardened. 0.0003" flatness and 0.0002/inch squareness was the spec.


Offline mwbrewster

  • Posts: 46
Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2018, 10:55 AM »

The setup block is 1" x 2" x 3", and they are precision grounded and hardened. 0.0003" flatness and 0.0002/inch squareness was the spec.

Do you have a picture of that block? Any more info?

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3588
Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2018, 11:00 AM »

The setup block is 1" x 2" x 3", and they are precision grounded and hardened. 0.0003" flatness and 0.0002/inch squareness was the spec.

Do you have a picture of that block? Any more info?

- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3385
Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2018, 11:02 AM »
1-2-3 = great tip!

Now I want to get an extra set and clean the grease off and replace with wax for use at the MFT.

Should have added that if you go to the bother of really squaring (4 cut method) the rail and fence at a particular height that you often use, then you should label and preserve the piece that results. You can carefully add a pair of riser blocks so the rail side meets the rail (instead of sliding under).

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5068
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Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2018, 11:40 AM »
heres a set of set up blocks I got. havent used them on the MFT YET. But Ill give it a go the next time I use it for cross cutting

https://www.infinitytools.com/8-pc-precision-setup-blocks

Offline mwbrewster

  • Posts: 46
Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2018, 11:51 AM »

The setup block is 1" x 2" x 3", and they are precision grounded and hardened. 0.0003" flatness and 0.0002/inch squareness was the spec.

Do you have a picture of that block? Any more info?

Thanks

Offline mattbyington

  • Posts: 117
Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2018, 11:56 PM »
How do you do auto complete for people's names with a space in it..? I type in Michael trying to tag Michael K but it doesn't work because of the space. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Anyways he hit the nail on the head. It's good to know that the holes aren't perfectly square! I didn't know that!

Matt

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 422
Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2018, 09:37 AM »
How do you do auto complete for people's names with a space in it..? I type in Michael trying to tag Michael K but it doesn't work because of the space. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Anyways he hit the nail on the head. It's good to know that the holes aren't perfectly square! I didn't know that!

Matt

Like that?
@Michael Kellough You hit the nail!

highlite his name from his posts and copy + type @ + paste  [tongue]
Mario

Offline mattbyington

  • Posts: 117
Re: MFT 90* Square
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2018, 10:48 AM »
Oh. well that was stupid of me. thanks. haha