Author Topic: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?  (Read 7291 times)

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Offline sprior

  • Posts: 353
MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« on: January 09, 2018, 10:46 PM »
The new Woodpeckers MFT square got me thinking again that I really don't need the back fence of my MFT to be anything but square and preferably aligned with the dog holes, so the miter gauge hanging out the back isn't necessary.

I know about the Qwas Fence Dogs, but the product page for them doesn't make it sound like they were ever finalized.  Are there other people who still use the stock back fence on the MFT, but keep in place with a dog solution instead of the stock miter gauge?

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline huskercrue

  • Posts: 12
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2018, 11:32 PM »
I used parf dogs and 80/20 inside corner brackets to mount the fence to the dogs.  Worked well.

Offline Chris Perren

  • Posts: 85
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2018, 11:50 PM »
I used parf dogs and 80/20 inside corner brackets to mount the fence to the dogs.  Worked well.

@huskercrue - Interesting ... Any pics or links to the corner brackets ... Thanks   

Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1343
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2018, 12:16 AM »
"Are there other people who still use the stock back fence on the MFT, but keep in place with a dog solution instead of the stock miter gauge?"

Nope, I use dogs and rail dogs exclusively. A lot of good products out there that compliment the MFT well.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 890
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2018, 07:24 AM »
I use two 495541 MFT/3 fence clamps (both in the back v-groove, one at the corner and one near the rail), works nicely.

Offline huskercrue

  • Posts: 12
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2018, 01:09 PM »
I sold my MFT and built my own so I can't take any pics, but my current setup is basically the same.  All you need to do is drill out one of the holes in the corner bracket to 8 mm and insert the parf dog from the bottom of the table and attach the corner bracket using an 8 mm screw.  Then, attach the fence to the other hole in the corner bracket.  I believe these are the brackets that I used but you may want to measure the hole location on the bracket and line it up with the one on your fence to make sure they are compatible. 

https://8020.net/shop/25-4119.html
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 01:28 PM by huskercrue »

Offline copcarcollector

  • Posts: 1424
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2018, 02:28 PM »
I have had these for a while but have no idea where i got them, or if they are available any longer. I know that FOG user EROK made something similar for his personal use.









Offline Corwin

  • Posts: 2573
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2018, 09:51 PM »
[ Specified attachment is not available ]
...  Are there other people who still use the stock back fence on the MFT, but keep in place with a dog solution instead of the stock miter gauge?

Using the stock fence extrusion can be as simple as:

273560-1

In that configuration, the fence is held in place and would be difficult to knock out of position. Standing upright, however, is a little more precarious.

Having a sturdy fence on the MFT has always seemed to be a necessity to me. Around a decade ago I came up with this method to attach my fence to the MFT via the dog holes:

273567-2

This fence can be removed and replaced as quickly as can be. And goes back to the same location every time. I like it.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 09:58 PM by Corwin »
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5068
  • Does Anyone Know What Time It Is?
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2018, 10:08 PM »
this is what I use. Its bomb proof, I can bump it pull the fence out out it back in doesnt change anything unless I move either the rail or the angle stops.I also have 10 flag stops so i can use the fence as a story pole



« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 10:11 PM by jobsworth »

Offline sprior

  • Posts: 353
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2018, 10:10 PM »
I've been goofing around in my favorite CAD tool for a couple of hours and came up with this design which could be 3D printed.  The two pieces should fit without slop in the MFT holes and the gap between them would provide travel to tighten them.  a M6 hex bolt would fit down through the top piece and a matching nut would be expoxied in the bottom piece which would also act as the tightening knob.  A second M6 bolt and nut would fasten the fence to this dog.

This just a first draft, will have to print one and try it out.

Offline sprior

  • Posts: 353
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2018, 11:25 PM »
Just printed the top and it looks like it'll work pretty well.  I've already made some minor tweaks to the design like rotating the top nut hole so it leaves a thicker side wall.  I think I'll also increase how much the top piece extends into the hole and reduce the bottom by that amount, but overall I think this should work well. 

Offline Chris Perren

  • Posts: 85
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2018, 09:30 AM »
Looks good - Great Idea. Does the gap within the 20mm hole cause any problems? Thanks

Offline justaguy

  • Posts: 173
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2018, 11:49 AM »
eBay seller toolimprovements maker of the "slop-stop" for the MFT guide rail used to periodically offer "Lock Fence Bench Dogs". I have not seemed them offered in a while. You might try contacting him via eBay to ask if he would make some more.

Offline Chris Perren

  • Posts: 85
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2018, 09:59 PM »
Unfortunately eBay seller toolimprovements is no longer making them...  I'm interested in @sprior latest design ... Thanks

Offline gnlman

  • Posts: 120
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2018, 10:53 PM »
Hi. I have several sets of tool improvements fence dogs....no sorry you can't buy any from me...lol....His name is Jon and is a member on fog...I have some other stuff he made as well, very nice guy but yes kinda closed down to do other stuff.
I use his fence dogs on the original mft/3 fence and his slop stop as I was having issues with the protractor staying square...you increase your crosscut capacity as well, and keep the festool fence which you already have allows you to have multiple fence stops, I think I have 5...they are or were not that expensive to buy from lee valley....it's a good solution and I have had no squaring issues since I set my table up this way....I also have many of Qwas products, and they are the dogs that I use all the time, and fit the best of all the dogs I've purchased. He too is a member here, and was one of the first if not the first to understand how the layout of the holes on mft could be used with dogs...I see his site is still up, and if you want to keep your original fence I'm thinking his fence dogs will be very accurate and you will be pleased with them...also like others have said, you could try Jon, but he's been out of business for quite a while....Qwas seems to be selling his stuff thru Bob Marino in US, and Ultimate tool Supply in Canada...I've bought stuff from both dealers, and they are very good. Good luck, I don't think you'll be unhappy getting rid of the protractor, and well folks have found other uses for the protractor on the side of the table for making cuts under the size of the rail...I've tried it and it works...do a search on fog and you'll see what I mean.
Then again, what you have made looks pretty cool...lol
Greg
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 10:56 PM by gnlman »

Offline sprior

  • Posts: 353
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2018, 12:36 AM »
When I started this thread the thought of designing and 3D printing my own hadn't yet occurred to me, but here we are.  I have published the files to Thingiverse here so anyone with a 3D printer can make a set, though I've licensed the design for noncommercial use - that means if you want to sell them you need to talk to me first.  I'm open for Parf, Qwas, Woodpeckers to make me an offer I can't refuse  [big grin].  The dogs fit quite snugly so there's no slop and they don't move around at all when tightened.  I printed them with an unusually high infill (85%) so they're effectively solid plastic.  You could probably break them, but you're going to have to work at it.  The only additional hardware that's needed is a pair of M6x25 hex bolts and nuts for each clamp and you'll want a pair of clamps.  A drop of epoxy to fasten the head of the vertical bolt in the top section and the nut in the bottom section would make them less fiddly to install.   For now this design is done, I'm happy with it.


Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 556
MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2018, 01:08 AM »
Here’s the solution I used to maximize my cutting capability on my MFT3.  Recommended my Festool on one of their instagram tips.  If you want to simplify your setup you can buy a second clamp and ditch the angle assembly. -




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 01:11 AM by Scorpion »

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 800
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2018, 07:40 AM »
@sprior , can you provide any details of your print setup, and what resolution
did you print these at and the material (looks like nylon to me).

I am interested in getting a 3D printer and I don't want to take this thread off
topic, but would like to know a little more about what was involved in printing
these.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline sprior

  • Posts: 353
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2018, 08:45 AM »
Those details are actually listed in the Thingiverse page except that it's plain old PLA plastic which is what I start with and then switch to some other plastic only when necessary.  If this print breaks someday I'll print it in either PETG or nylon (I have both), but I think it'll be fine in PLA.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1794
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2018, 09:30 AM »
Are there other people who still use the stock back fence on the MFT, but keep in place with a dog solution instead of the stock miter gauge?

I still use the fence and assembly and have found that it works well for me for the purpose of final square crosscutting. I also own some dogs which I use for various tasks on the MFT. I would recommend using one or the other. Either square the fence to the table with the miter assembly in place or use some dog system to square and make cuts.
Randy

Offline Ralph Mignano

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  • Posts: 26
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2018, 02:55 PM »
Hey, guys if anyone is interested I have designed this which I will be putting on my website (www.benchdogs.co.uk) This will be available in the next week or 2.  Can be used for the Festool or Incra fences.

TS 55 R, CTL MIDI, RAILS 1400mm, DF 500 Q, OF 1400, CMS-OF, CMS-GE GB 240V, CMS-TS55, ETS 150/5, BS 75 E, MFT/3, KS120, MFK 700 EQ, T 18+3 FL, CTL 36,PS 420 EBQ, ETS EC 150/3, RTS 400 REQ, FS5000/2, FS 1400/2-LR 32, SYSROCK BR10, VAC SYS Set SE1, SYS3-Set SURFIX, FS-PA, FS-PA-VL, LR 32-SYS

Offline cortes

  • Posts: 24
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2018, 09:43 PM »
I used Paul Marcel's, aka half inch shy, solution shown in his video on the subject here. It clamps the fence to the very back of the table.

Offline Ralph Mignano

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  • Posts: 26
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2018, 03:19 AM »
Hi, all here is a new product we have just made.

TS 55 R, CTL MIDI, RAILS 1400mm, DF 500 Q, OF 1400, CMS-OF, CMS-GE GB 240V, CMS-TS55, ETS 150/5, BS 75 E, MFT/3, KS120, MFK 700 EQ, T 18+3 FL, CTL 36,PS 420 EBQ, ETS EC 150/3, RTS 400 REQ, FS5000/2, FS 1400/2-LR 32, SYSROCK BR10, VAC SYS Set SE1, SYS3-Set SURFIX, FS-PA, FS-PA-VL, LR 32-SYS

Offline mattbyington

  • Posts: 117
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2018, 10:04 AM »
@Ralph Mignano just ordered some thanks! Looking forward to trying them!

Matt

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 56
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2018, 10:41 AM »
They're great but only hold the MFT fence in its laid-flat orientation. They also work wonderfully as MFS "clamps" when you swap in some 30mm M4 knobs (see here).

Offline jpmeunier

  • Posts: 51
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2018, 11:13 AM »
I'll second the question for US suppliers.

Offline mattbyington

  • Posts: 117
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2018, 11:19 AM »
@jpmeunier I live in the US and my order went through!

Online GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 482
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2018, 12:55 PM »
This looks like just the product I've been looking for.  How much is the shipping to the US?
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

Offline mattbyington

  • Posts: 117
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2018, 01:02 PM »
@GoingMyWay looks like I paid 17 (pounds not dollars). I’m in CA

Matt

Online GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 482
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2018, 01:20 PM »
Thanks for sharing your shipping cost.  I might consider ordering these in the future.
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

Online GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 482
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2018, 06:34 PM »
Well that didn't take long - I just placed my order for the Fence Bench Dogs with Fence and the Festool Guide Rail Dogs.  Shipping cost was still 17GBP.
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1290
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2018, 07:40 PM »
@TSO Products

Didn't TSO say they were coming out with something similar to this?

Offline TSO_Products

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    • TSO Products LLC
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2018, 08:21 PM »
@RobBob  - we keep adding to our collection of Workholding solutions and are a bit behind in posting pictures of some of these applications. We do not currently have any plans to offer a Dog to secure the MFT fence to dog holes. But we are always listening.
Let’s see if we can get some pictures up on this FOG thread this holiday week to shed some light on solutions we do have available now.

Hans and Eric

Offline mattbyington

  • Posts: 117
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2018, 12:35 AM »
FYI to all I received mine and like them a lot. I feel a lot more confident that the fence isn't moving when I knock it. Would buy again. Shipping was good to and I got mine in the US (shipped from UK).

Matt

Offline jroth33139

  • Posts: 16
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2018, 10:49 PM »
When I started this thread the thought of designing and 3D printing my own hadn't yet occurred to me, but here we are.  I have published the files to Thingiverse here so anyone with a 3D printer can make a set, though I've licensed the design for noncommercial use - that means if you want to sell them you need to talk to me first.  I'm open for Parf, Qwas, Woodpeckers to make me an offer I can't refuse  [big grin].  The dogs fit quite snugly so there's no slop and they don't move around at all when tightened.  I printed them with an unusually high infill (85%) so they're effectively solid plastic.  You could probably break them, but you're going to have to work at it.  The only additional hardware that's needed is a pair of M6x25 hex bolts and nuts for each clamp and you'll want a pair of clamps.  A drop of epoxy to fasten the head of the vertical bolt in the top section and the nut in the bottom section would make them less fiddly to install.   For now this design is done, I'm happy with it.

(Attachment Link)

@sprior sold me a pair and they are awesome. Very rigid solution, and great for setting a tape on your fence. Gives you tablesaw-like precision and repeatability if you set it up correctly. I use it with a pair of dogs and clips from TSO and it is foolproof. I barely use my tablesaw any more, and get great square cuts.

Offline sprior

  • Posts: 353
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2018, 11:36 PM »
Yeah they've been working well for me as well.  I think we did come up with ideas for some possible improvements, but none sufficiently motivating to redo them yet.

Offline rj_mccall

  • Posts: 9
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2018, 01:07 AM »
FYI to all I received mine and like them a lot. I feel a lot more confident that the fence isn't moving when I knock it. Would buy again. Shipping was good to and I got mine in the US (shipped from UK).

Matt


Hey Matt, could you point me in the direction of where to order these from?? Thanks!!

Online GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 482
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2018, 08:04 AM »
Hey Matt, could you point me in the direction of where to order these from?? Thanks!!

He ordered them from: https://benchdogs.co.uk/ (I also ordered a set).
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

Offline rj_mccall

  • Posts: 9
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2018, 12:20 PM »
Hey Matt, could you point me in the direction of where to order these from?? Thanks!!

He ordered them from: https://benchdogs.co.uk/ (I also ordered a set).

Thanks for your help, if I just scrolled back a page I guess I would have found the link! Oh, well. Thanks none the less.

Now that a few members have ordered these, and are using them, could you give me your initial impressions?? I would like to order a pair, but it would be nice to hear a bit of feedback from current users!

Thanks

Offline mattbyington

  • Posts: 117
Re: MFT dogs to secure the stock back fence?
« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2018, 10:24 AM »
They’re wonderful. The only thing I might change is to make the knobs slightly smaller diameter wise. Once locked down to the MFT you can’t turn them because they hit the table. Makes micro adjusting slightly difficult (to align the tape measure). But small gripe. They rock.

Matt