terrystouf
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« on: May 01, 2010, 07:16 PM » |
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"ITS LIKE PLANET OF THE APES,,,,,,,WITHOUT THE APES"
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John Stevens
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« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2010, 10:02 PM » |
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I guess its only as good as your eye-balling to a line Same with Festool's. At least with yours, the "stop" actually sits on the line, unlike Festool's. And yours don't sag down, and can be used with stock of any thickness without having to fuss with spacers. As someone who paid full price for the Festool version, I think yours are great, thanks for sharing. Regards, John
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Corwin
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« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2010, 10:14 PM » |
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Nice job! And I'll agree with John's statements above on how your parallel guides have an advantage over those that Festool now offers. If you want positive stop notches you may want to use Incra Incremental Tracks for your next jig.
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AlexR
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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2010, 02:44 AM » |
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Brilliant!  I was thinking about doing similar but using the groove on the underside but yours is so much better. Did slotting the rules make them flimsy though ? I'll definitely be making some soon. Thanks for sharing. edit- this is the kind of rule stop i was thinking. It's Veritas and can be used on rules up to 32mm/ 1.1/8". 
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« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 02:52 AM by AlexR »
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terrystouf
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Location: Brandon Manitoba-Canada Member Since: Mar 2010
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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2010, 12:52 PM » |
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Thanks,Yea the rulers lost some strength with the slot,they are a Johnson and are 2" wide,.125 thick.you can see a slight sag in the first picture,i wouldn't call it flimsy , but you wouldn't want to pick the assembly up by the end of the rulers.It wasn't ideal but it was the best solution i could come up with with what was on the shelves.I dont anticipate a problem, but,I think if you made them with a 24-26" capacity they would be alot stiffer,maybe i will make some shorter ones too,i don't know if i will need that much width often.I don't know how much grip the Veritas stops would have if you slammed up to your edge,not that we want to be slamming. [blink]One more note on clamping from the back slot,its not perfectly parallel with the rest of the track,at least on mine(check with straight edge on bottom of track at the end ,off the rubber).The guides tilt up slightly.I have to correct for that yet.The Incra Track idea mentioned is definitely worth looking into also .Happy building...
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"ITS LIKE PLANET OF THE APES,,,,,,,WITHOUT THE APES"
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AlexR
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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2010, 03:08 PM » |
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Terry is it possible for a little demo pic of the jig at work and dude i shouldn't have to ask......put some pants MAN! 
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wnagle
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Location: Akron, Ohio USA Member Since: Apr 2008
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« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2010, 03:25 PM » |
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I guess its only as good as your eye-balling to a line Same with Festool's. At least with yours, the "stop" actually sits on the line, unlike Festool's. And yours don't sag down, and can be used with stock of any thickness without having to fuss with spacers. As someone who paid full price for the Festool version, I think yours are great, thanks for sharing. Regards, John John, I put self stick imperial tapes on top of the metric one's on my Parallel guides. In doing so, I placed the tapes so they just touch the pointer reducing parallax error. The thickness of the line on the tape is about equal to the gap in the end of the pointer. Since it almost touches it's really easy to get very accurate parallel cuts. I calibrated mine cutting 4 inch strips by 8 feet long. Once calibrated, end to end, the cuts were withing .004 thousandths of an inch when I set the pointers by eye and measured the cut pieces with a digital caliper. The self stick tapes were made by Starret and cost about 4-5 dollars each at Hartville tool.
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Wayne
TS 55, CT 33 x2, ROTEX 150, RO 90, DOMINO 500Q SET, TRION PS 300, OF 1400, MFT/3, ETS 150/3, KAPEX KS 120.
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terrystouf
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Location: Brandon Manitoba-Canada Member Since: Mar 2010
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« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2010, 04:40 PM » |
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Pretty self explanatory.Once they are dialed(they are now),what you set is what you get.  Set the stops smaller than the piece  ,throw the rail on the piece,as long as its .25 or thicker,In this case,I use may left hand to keep slight pressure at the back of the rail,against the stops(no clamps)   And cut it ,check it.YES.   And with pants... 
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"ITS LIKE PLANET OF THE APES,,,,,,,WITHOUT THE APES"
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AlexR
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Location: Derby.UK Member Since: Apr 2010
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« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2010, 05:17 PM » |
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Yes Yes Brilliant, that just looks shed loads less awkward............. than fessies original. Thanks for facing your public robed. Man Pink Floyd Dark side of the Moon rocks 
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RonWen
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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2010, 06:43 PM » |
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Excellent! Very simple and easy to adjust & use. I would probably add the "stick-on" measure tapes calibrated to the guide rail kerf zero. (maybe you've already done that?)
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suds
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Location: Spokane Wa Member Since: Aug 2008
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« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2010, 09:46 PM » |
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Even though I have the Parallel Guides this thread set off a light bulb in my head. I have one of those Johnson adjustable T squares that's 54" long. I don't know where I'll go with this but it has a lip that fits in the Guide Rail channel. Maybe one of you fellas can come up with something/suggestion to make this work for a longer setup.
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MFT's, Kapex, TS 55, Vac, 150 Rotrex, 300 Trion, Domino
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fshanno
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Location: Silsbee TX Member Since: Sep 2007
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« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2010, 08:43 AM » |
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Do you have a machine shop connection or did you just show up at a random machine shop as a complete stranger and have them cut those slots?
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The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.
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AlexR
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« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2010, 09:29 AM » |
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Ali rule? surely clamp well put plunge slot cutter in your router drop speed and wear googles. Makes a lot of noise though. 
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terrystouf
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Location: Brandon Manitoba-Canada Member Since: Mar 2010
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« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2010, 02:10 PM » |
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Do you have a machine shop connection or did you just show up at a random machine shop as a complete stranger and have them cut those slots?
I know a few guys with milling machines(I used to be a machinist),paid a guy $20,but that said, a few slots in a piece of aluminum is not a big deal for any shop,go to a small general repair shop,not a production cnc shop,they will be happy to do it,thats what they do,price will vary with shop rates (30-45 min with setup). I sloted a 2" groove in a piece of mdf the depth of the ruler thickness ,to place the ruler face down when clamping to protect the numbers..I thought about the router table ,but didnt think my router would run slow enough,or be ridgid enough,try it on a scrap piece(.250 hss cutter,8000rpm,maybe, but still a little to fast for a flimsy piece)would probably chatter like heck ? 
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"ITS LIKE PLANET OF THE APES,,,,,,,WITHOUT THE APES"
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Eiji Fuller
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« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2010, 12:50 AM » |
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Nice Terry! Your avatar pic is scary though. 
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« Last Edit: May 04, 2010, 12:50 AM by Eiji Fuller »
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John2532
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« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2010, 04:43 PM » |
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 Here is an option to having a slot machined in the rule. H.D. has these t-squares for around $19. The rule section is removable and pre-slotted half-way. (24") If you needed the extra length you could reverse the rule and have the slotted portion away from the mount. Not quite as clean as Terry's setup but an option for those without access to a milling machine. John
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terrystouf
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« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2010, 08:13 PM » |
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Hey John2532,was that head that is mounted to the rail a custom piece?Wish i had that to start with...The Home Depo here doesnt have half the stuff as a large US one.  Thanks Eiji, seeing your set inspired me,i knew what i wanted it to do,but it helps to see it implemented . If you think THAT one is scary... 
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"ITS LIKE PLANET OF THE APES,,,,,,,WITHOUT THE APES"
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John Stevens
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« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2010, 08:58 PM » |
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H.D. has these t-squares for around $19.
Hey, John, where'd you get the piece that mounts the t-square to the guide rail? That is awesome. Regards, John
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John2532
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« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2010, 09:52 PM » |
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I machined the head when I was working on a similar project. The goal then was to use only the one T-square mounted on the rail as a parallel guide. The weak link though was the original T-square setup, (not the mount to the rail or ruler to the mount) even with above average tightening forces it would work itself loose enough to cause problems. I've been sidetracked for awhile so I haven't pursued it lately but I think it still has potential to work on the shorter rails. Rails longer than 1400 would probably require a double set-up. One thing I did like though was using nylon screws to tighten the mount against the rail. Finger tight worked great and they screws did not mark up the rail.
John
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Wood_Junkie
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« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2010, 10:03 PM » |
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I machined the head when I was working on a similar project. I think if you made up a couple more pair you've found at least a few customers here in this thread. I would definitely want a pair for rail use. I already have one of those squares and was already planning to get another to make this precise type of setup. But the bracket is the tricky part.
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« Last Edit: May 04, 2010, 10:05 PM by Wood_Junkie »
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John2532
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« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2010, 10:12 PM » |
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 Here are some closer pics. A bit on the "heavy-duty" side but it was the size material that was on hand. (please overlook the rough edges and finish) If anyone wants some specs I will be happy to provide. John Edit--If there is interest I would be willing to work on a slimmed-down version to be used in a "double" setup. They key element would be to find rules available to everyone in the same width.
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« Last Edit: May 04, 2010, 10:22 PM by John2532 »
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vkumar
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« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2010, 12:12 AM » |
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John,
I would be interested. Keep us updated.
Vijay
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RonWen
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« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2010, 07:46 PM » |
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I really like the idea of using the inexpensive HD T-squares as a base for a parallel guide system. I've sketched up a version that will allow cutting parallel pieces from 7-1/4" to 58" in width (flipping the slotted bar end for end). By applying the Starrett stick-on scale tape they can be calibrated for direct reading measurement. I'll make the brackets and the slide stops of aluminum. and the scale lens of Lexan. The brackets will attach to the guide rail using the Festool guide rail connectors.
EDIT: I changed the shape of the slide stops so that I can cut narrower strips (from 7-1/4" (185mm) to 58" (1475mm) parallel strips).
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« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 01:43 AM by RonWen »
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suds
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« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2010, 10:43 PM » |
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RonWen....I'd really like to see what you come up with using the HD T Squares.
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terrystouf
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« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2010, 09:23 PM » |
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I really like the idea of using the inexpensive HD T-squares as a base for a parallel guide system. I've sketched up a version that will allow cutting parallel pieces from 11" to 60" in width (flipping the slotted bar end for end). By applying the Starrett stick-on scale tape they can be calibrated for direct reading measurement. I'll make the brackets and the slide stops of aluminum. and the scale lens of Lexan. The brackets will attach to the guide rail using the Festool guide rail connectors.
Looks great ,another thing you could think about adding would be an indexing pin of some sort at ,say .5" or 1" increments or .5 staggered on each side or somthing,where you would push a pin through the lexan into the track,take out any eyeball error....60" would be way too long for me,thinking of cabinet sides and such.Looking good...
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"ITS LIKE PLANET OF THE APES,,,,,,,WITHOUT THE APES"
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RonWen
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« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2010, 09:36 AM » |
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I put self stick imperial tapes on top of the metric one's on my Parallel guides. In doing so, I placed the tapes so they just touch the pointer reducing parallax error. The thickness of the line on the tape is about equal to the gap in the end of the pointer. Since it almost touches it's really easy to get very accurate parallel cuts. I calibrated mine cutting 4 inch strips by 8 feet long. Once calibrated, end to end, the cuts were withing .004 thousandths of an inch when I set the pointers by eye and measured the cut pieces with a digital caliper.
The self stick tapes were made by Starret and cost about 4-5 dollars each at Hartville tool. [/quote]
Wayne, The description at Hartville Tool says "1/16" graduations" -- I would like to find 1/32" graduations (or even 1/64") -- Does the tape that you used only have 1/16" grads? Thanks, Ron
(I'm also playing with making it a digital readout)
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« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 09:38 AM by RonWen »
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wnagle
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Location: Akron, Ohio USA Member Since: Apr 2008
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« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2010, 09:25 PM » |
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I put self stick imperial tapes on top of the metric one's on my Parallel guides. In doing so, I placed the tapes so they just touch the pointer reducing parallax error. The thickness of the line on the tape is about equal to the gap in the end of the pointer. Since it almost touches it's really easy to get very accurate parallel cuts. I calibrated mine cutting 4 inch strips by 8 feet long. Once calibrated, end to end, the cuts were withing .004 thousandths of an inch when I set the pointers by eye and measured the cut pieces with a digital caliper.
The self stick tapes were made by Starret and cost about 4-5 dollars each at Hartville tool.
Wayne, The description at Hartville Tool says "1/16" graduations" -- I would like to find 1/32" graduations (or even 1/64") -- Does the tape that you used only have 1/16" grads? Thanks, Ron (I'm also playing with making it a digital readout) [/quote] Ron, I've thought about making it work with digital...maybe with the wixey digital set up for a table saw fence. But I've never really come up with a workable Idea. As for the tapes at Hartville Hardware, they do have increments of 1/32 of an inch on the first 12 inches only and only on one edge. After using it as is, I can't see the need for 32nd increments. It is easy enough to split the lines by eye and be very accurate. Besides the Festool pointer is as wide as the ink on the line and doesn't come to a distinct razor point. So having a finer scale to line up to is a moot point. AS it is, I have found it incredibly reliable and accurate. If I were doing something really critical and expensive, I suppose it would make sense to do some test cuts on lesser expensive material first to be sure your dialed in and nothing had been knocked out of whack. I only had a .004 thousanths difference over an 8 foot cut the first time I tried it with this set up. Edit: Ron, another thought I've been churning is to make a digital story stick that once calibrated, you could use it to set the stops on the on the parallel guides one at a time from one digital adjustable stick. If both guides would be set to the same story stick, and the parallel guides were accurately set up, Theoretically you would get accurate and parallel cuts. But as I mentioned before, it really works quite accurately with the stick on tapes and my eye.
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« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 09:45 PM by wnagle »
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Wayne
TS 55, CT 33 x2, ROTEX 150, RO 90, DOMINO 500Q SET, TRION PS 300, OF 1400, MFT/3, ETS 150/3, KAPEX KS 120.
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RonWen
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« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2010, 09:45 PM » |
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Ron, I've thought about making it work with digital...maybe with the wixey digital set up for a table saw fence. But I've never really come up with a workable Idea. As for the tapes at Hartville Hardware, they do have increments of 1/32 of an inch on the first 12 inches only and only on one edge. After using it as is, I can't see the need for 32nd increments. It is easy enough to split the lines by eye and be very accurate. Besides the Festool pointer is as wide as the ink on the line and doesn't come to a distinct razor point. So having a finer scale to line up to is a moot point. AS it is, I have found it incredibly reliable and accurate. If I were doing something really critical and expensive, I suppose it would make sense to do some test cuts on lesser expensive material first to be sure your dialed in and nothing had been knocked out of whack. I only had a .004 thousanths difference over an 8 foot cut the first time I tried it with this set up. [/quote] Thanks Wayne. I forgot you added it to the Festool parallel guide which does have a somewhat "clunky" pointer. The setup that I intend will have a better "sight glass" without parallax error & could nicely zero in on 1/64" increments if the scales had them. As you say, even with just 1/16" (or I'll probably use the metric scale for a bit finer resolution) you can compensate accordingly. I guess there's no point in getting too carried away here... EDIT: I just looked at Lee Valley, they offer the Starrett R to L Imp./Metric tape which appears to be my best choice. http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,43513,43517&p=32550
There's always the excellent Incra positive stop scales but they are just a little on the heavy side for what I want.
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« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 10:00 PM by RonWen »
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wnagle
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« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2010, 10:26 PM » |
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Ron,
When you order your tapes, I'd suggest setting your parallel guides and looking at them the way your going to use them to make sure the edge of the tape what you want to use will be adjacent to the pointer. It's not just a matter of left to right and right to left. I learned the hard way.
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Wayne
TS 55, CT 33 x2, ROTEX 150, RO 90, DOMINO 500Q SET, TRION PS 300, OF 1400, MFT/3, ETS 150/3, KAPEX KS 120.
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RonWen
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« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2010, 10:48 PM » |
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Ron,
When you order your tapes, I'd suggest setting your parallel guides and looking at them the way your going to use them to make sure the edge of the tape what you want to use will be adjacent to the pointer. It's not just a matter of left to right and right to left. I learned the hard way.
Thanks, I thought about that -- I imagine that I'll stand with the guide rail & saw to my right and the scales & stock to my left so I'm thinking "right to left" tapes should be OK. Using the Home Depot T-squares as the basis for this they are wide enough that I could place tapes in both directions on them. Actually they are only slotted about 1/2 way so I think rather than cutting the slot almost the entire length (leaving ~2"-3" at each end to keep them joined I think that I'll drill & tap both ends and just swap ends when I need the longer range.
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