Author Topic: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions  (Read 11283 times)

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Offline wch

  • Posts: 7
Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« on: December 16, 2018, 04:51 PM »
I recently got my Parf Guide Mark II system, and I have some issues and questions.

First off, it looks like one of the Parf sticks has hole spacing that is ever-so-slightly greater than the other. The error is such that over the 960mm from hole 0 to hole 10, one stick has holes that are around 0.10-0.15mm farther apart than the other one. Has anyone else encountered this before?

My grid is 15 wide by 7 high. When using the Parf sticks to make the "starter" set of 11x7 holes, it worked out OK. Next, I extended the grid to the right by adding 4 holes to the top row and 4 holes to the bottom row. Then I tried to connect the far-right top and bottom holes by pinning one of the Parf sticks to the top-right hole and bottom-right hole. Unfortunately, the 3mm holes I drilled in the table were slightly too far apart, and the pins wouldn't seat all the way. I think this is because the 3-4-5 triangle that was used to create the grid was slightly off, resulting in a grid that wasn't quite square.

I'm concerned that with the slight error of the holes, when I try to cut a right angle, the angle could be off by an amount that will cause problems when I try to do precise work. Is that a reasonable concern? I watched Peter Parfitt's video where he found that cuts on the workbench he made had an error of about 0.03 degrees per cut, which is very good.

Incidentally, the fact that I'm encountering fit problems when the error is so small is a testament to the overall precision of the Parf Guide system.

I have a few other questions that hopefully someone here can help answer. These first two relate to how close to perpendicular the holes will be.

  • How accurate can I expect the hole spacing to be on the underside of the panel?
  • For taller dogs like Super Dogs, how accurate can I expect them to be further away from the table?
  • The panel I'm using is MDO, based on the recommendation of someone from this forum. Unfortunately, it's slightly bowed so that if one end is pressed all the way down, the other end will stick up probably half an inch. Is unreasonable to expect an MDO panel to be much flatter than this?


Here are some pictures that show the misalignment of the holes.

With the fixing pin connecting both Parf sticks at hole 0, the longer drill guide seats easily all the way into hole 1.

289040-0

With the fixing pin still at 0, the drill guide fits tightly in hole 5. In this picture, it's tight enough that I'm able to lift both Parf sticks off the table with the friction.

289042-1

With the fixing pin still at 0, the drill guide won't go through both Parf sticks at hole 10.

289044-2


Using calipers going through both Parf sticks at hole 1, I measured a width to be 5.98mm.

289046-3

If I lift the calipers slightly so that it's engaging the hole in only one of the Parf sticks, the width is 6.00mm.

289048-4


At hole 10, going through both Parf sticks, the width is 5.86mm.

289050-5

At hole 10, lifting the calipers slightly so that it engages the hole in only one Parf stick, the width is 5.99mm.

289052-6

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Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2018, 04:26 AM »
This is something that Axminster will sort out and the OP is now aware that that is the best route to take if there is any suspicion of a faulty part.

Peter

Offline tallgrass

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2018, 12:48 PM »
do you have gauge pins to measure the holes? Just curious.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 07:58 PM by tallgrass »

Offline wch

  • Posts: 7
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2018, 04:36 PM »
I contact Axminster about the issue and they must have agreed that the ones pictured above are defective, because they promptly shipped out some replacement Parf sticks.

tallgrass, I don't have any gauge pins, but I believe that, based on my measurements, the holes themselves are within 0.02mm of 6.00mm -- it's just that they're not spaced exactly the same on both Parf sticks, so that that when the two sticks are on top of each other and registered at hole 0, the further you get from hole 0, the more out of alignment the holes get.

Offline tallgrass

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2018, 08:06 PM »
I am sure you are correct. I was just curious. measuring holes accurately with Veneers can be fiddly. I always suggest when people get calipers or veneers, they should get a reference block, small surface plate and a set of pins.

These kind of jigs can have horrendously difficult tolerances to measure accurately. Especially when dealing with something like this. I am always impressed with these various solutions and how "accurate" they are, especially when dealing with the implications of accumulative error. Sounds like they handled it well.

Offline box185

  • Posts: 57
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2018, 05:04 PM »
Side by side, the metric scales are different between the original Parf stick and the Mark II Parf stick - not sure yet about the hole spacing. Other than a relative comparison, I also do not know which one is more accurate. Does any of this matter?

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2018, 12:57 AM »
Side by side, the metric scales are different between the original Parf stick and the Mark II Parf stick - not sure yet about the hole spacing. Other than a relative comparison, I also do not know which one is more accurate. Does any of this matter?

The metric scales are not relevant to the function f the tool and were put there as a bonus. If you go into any store and take rules and tape rules and compare them you will find variation between manufacturers. That is why one is encouraged to use just one for the duration of a project.

I have covered all of this in my "Measuring and Marking video from a while back:



The Original PGS and the PGS Mark 2 are expected to produce the same degree of accurate layouts of 20 mm holes. The Mark 2 will last longer as there are no moving parts to wear out the Parf Sticks.

Peter

Offline Euclid

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2018, 04:02 AM »
The scale on the 'stick' seems like something of a distraction in this matter.

What is important (for the resulting "squareness" or "perpendicularity" of the resulting hole pattern), however, is that the spacing between the holes is consistent - and that the two sticks used are identical. The former is a matter of pre-production planning; the latter would seem to be virtually guaranteed (barring some highly bizarre circumstances in production). If either of those conditions were not met, I'm sure some difficulties would be encountered in laying out the hole pattern on a worktop, long before one got as far as cutting any wood.

If you want the resulting hole pattern to conform accurately to the 32mm (or any other) system, then the actual distance between the holes on the sticks becomes important too.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 04:05 AM by Euclid »

Offline box185

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2018, 05:57 AM »
. . . and that the two sticks used are identical.

. . . the latter would seem to be virtually guaranteed (barring some highly bizarre circumstances in production).

If I understand it correctly, this seems to be the problem encountered by the OP. If there were some highly bizarre circumstance in production, I would think more than one set of sticks would be affected.

Is it possible that the two sticks were made in different production runs? I doubt that the two sticks I received were produced consecutively. Was production outsourced to meet demand?

I certainly don’t expect them to be perfect, but they should be consistent. Are there any other reports of this problem? Any comments from Peter?

Offline Euclid

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2018, 06:16 AM »
Ah, I see what you mean box185; (I was, at first, imagining the OP was comparing the measurement scales but clearly that's not so).
Thus, my comments stand in a general sense - but are not solving this particular situation.
Sorry!
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 06:20 AM by Euclid »

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2018, 08:49 AM »
The two Parf Sticks shown with their scales compared are from different products and were made on different machines The material and processes used to create the improved Mark 2 Parf Sticks are quite different as well.

Peter

Offline box185

  • Posts: 57
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2018, 10:25 AM »
. . . but the meter itself has not changed. Because I am now in the process of checking the hole size and spacing on the MK II sticks I received, I started by taking a quick look at the scales. They are different, and that causes me to question the hole pattern. What I have seen so far is that one of the two sticks seems alright, but the second one appears to have oblong holes. I will be looking at these with gauge pins, but still . . . the end user should not see these problems.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2018, 12:01 PM »
. . . but the meter itself has not changed. Because I am now in the process of checking the hole size and spacing on the MK II sticks I received, I started by taking a quick look at the scales. They are different, and that causes me to question the hole pattern. What I have seen so far is that one of the two sticks seems alright, but the second one appears to have oblong holes. I will be looking at these with gauge pins, but still . . . the end user should not see these problems.

If you have any issues whatsoever use the excellent Customer Services at Axminster. You will get any problem you have resolved very quickly and it will save you time as well. They do not monitor the FOG and so contacting them yourself is the best way forward.

Peter

Offline marmot

  • Posts: 21
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2018, 01:35 PM »
I still maintain that the easiest and cheapest way to replicate an MFT top is as follows:


*Purchase the Sys-MFT Systainer and remove the Festool-brand MDF top from it.  The top on it is removable and can be re-attached later with the same torx screws on the underside of the lid.  I think it's 4 or 6 screws total.  Mine was very easy to remove.  ~1 minute or so.
http://www.amazon.com/Festool-500076-SYS-MFT-Tabletop-Systainer/dp/B00F0GJW12

*Purchase three or four 20mm dogs to hold the Sys-MFT top in place while you clamp it down and drill.

*Buy a 20mm drill bit.  There are a few different bits that would be suggested around here.  If you let it this can actually be one of the most expensive parts of this method!

*Line the Sys-MFT top up square in a corner of your MDF or bench top surface.  There are a few ways to ensure it's square on the wood.  Clamp it securely so it will not move at all during drilling - which is actually surprisingly easy because of the recessed clamping areas on the MDF top - then drill your first hole.  If you have a drilling jig use it, but it's not that important due to the depth of the Sys-MFT MDF top which helps keep the bit straight and completely negates speed wobble.  Router bits are actually not as great because they cut from the side.  Insert your 20mm dog into the first hole to help keep it in line even more, leaving it clamped.  Drill the additional holes, inserting dogs into the holes as needed.

*After all holes for that section have been drilled, remove the clamps and dogs, and re-position the Sys-MFT top using the dogs as a guide to keep it straight and square.  Keep repeating the process as needed until you get as many holes in your bench top as you want.

---------------
You can just use a standard drill.  I used the PDC-18, and all of my holes are identical, perfectly square and in-line.  The Forstner bit's cutting motion (only straight down) and the depth of the Sys-MFT hole's sidewalls are enough to keep your work perfectly clean.  You essentially get holes that were good enough for Festool when they batched out their tops for Sys-MFT.  Unless you're a machinist and/or are working for NASA, you're good.  It's woodworking.  The wood will move in greater increments than the tolerances Festool used anyway.


The Sys-MFT is actually extremely valuable as well - it's one of the most underrated Festool products out there.  At ~$78.00 I am very surprised more people don't feature it in threads.

Offline travisj

  • Posts: 328
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2018, 01:22 AM »
I still maintain that the easiest and cheapest way to replicate an MFT top is as follows:


*Purchase the Sys-MFT Systainer and remove the Festool-brand MDF top from it.  The top on it is removable and can be re-attached later with the same torx screws on the underside of the lid.  I think it's 4 or 6 screws total.  Mine was very easy to remove.  ~1 minute or so.
http://www.amazon.com/Festool-500076-SYS-MFT-Tabletop-Systainer/dp/B00F0GJW12

*Purchase three or four 20mm dogs to hold the Sys-MFT top in place while you clamp it down and drill.

*Buy a 20mm drill bit.  There are a few different bits that would be suggested around here.  If you let it this can actually be one of the most expensive parts of this method!

*Line the Sys-MFT top up square in a corner of your MDF or bench top surface.  There are a few ways to ensure it's square on the wood.  Clamp it securely so it will not move at all during drilling - which is actually surprisingly easy because of the recessed clamping areas on the MDF top - then drill your first hole.  If you have a drilling jig use it, but it's not that important due to the depth of the Sys-MFT MDF top which helps keep the bit straight and completely negates speed wobble.  Router bits are actually not as great because they cut from the side.  Insert your 20mm dog into the first hole to help keep it in line even more, leaving it clamped.  Drill the additional holes, inserting dogs into the holes as needed.

*After all holes for that section have been drilled, remove the clamps and dogs, and re-position the Sys-MFT top using the dogs as a guide to keep it straight and square.  Keep repeating the process as needed until you get as many holes in your bench top as you want.

---------------
You can just use a standard drill.  I used the PDC-18, and all of my holes are identical, perfectly square and in-line.  The Forstner bit's cutting motion (only straight down) and the depth of the Sys-MFT hole's sidewalls are enough to keep your work perfectly clean.  You essentially get holes that were good enough for Festool when they batched out their tops for Sys-MFT.  Unless you're a machinist and/or are working for NASA, you're good.  It's woodworking.  The wood will move in greater increments than the tolerances Festool used anyway.


The Sys-MFT is actually extremely valuable as well - it's one of the most underrated Festool products out there.  At ~$78.00 I am very surprised more people don't feature it in threads.


My dealer suggested a similar method for when it came time to replace MFT tops.  Essentially use the old top as a template with a router and a bearing guided template bit.  Router bit should be more accurate than a drill and bit.  An actual MFT top could be more accurate than using the SYS-MFT top since more holes would be bored off of the same template prior to moving, less likely to misalign.

All of that said, I used the Parf guide on my outfeed table and couldn’t be happier.


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Offline Farming_Sawyer

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2018, 07:00 AM »

The Sys-MFT is actually extremely valuable as well - it's one of the most underrated Festool products out there.  At ~$78.00 I am very surprised more people don't feature it in threads.

I love my Sys-mft. Im about to buy a second. Use it all the time on the job. But in the time it takes to remove the top, align it on a top I could have squared the Parf system and been drilling a grid. Trying to accurately drill holds thru an mft top is needlessly slow if you want accuracy and are trying not to damage the template.

A router and template bit won't work on existing 20mm holes because the resulting holes will be too small. Enlarging the template mft top holes for a guide bushing is as much work as making a top. The Parf guide costs a bit more than a pre  made top but is so much more useful than a fixed template.
I'm very happy with its purchase. Now I just need to find a way to simply make the Sys-mft tops....



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[/quote]
CT 26E, RO125, sys-mft, sys-toolbox, a bunch of 30 year old tools I'm looking to replace.

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 585
Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2018, 09:36 AM »


Can’t blame the machine, looks to me like the they forgot to take the width of the markings into account when laying out the rule in CAD.  Lacking some quality control processes too it would appear.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 09:38 AM by Scorpion »

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 858
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2018, 10:26 AM »
I still maintain that the easiest and cheapest way to replicate an MFT top is as follows:

*Purchase the Sys-MFT Systainer

Snip.

The Sys-MFT is actually extremely valuable as well - it's one of the most underrated Festool products out there


I don't use or need (for now at least) an MFT platform, but it's good to know that my Sys-MFT can be used to make a clone MFT! I have all the items (drill, dogs, etc. you list). Thank you for sharing this.

You're right that the Sys-MFT is underrated and, in my case, underused. The brand new item has been in my shop, never used for two years or more. Could you share how you use it or what you use it for in your shop?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 10:29 AM by ChuckM »

Offline Farming_Sawyer

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2018, 10:54 AM »
On the job away from the main work area, it's great. Also as a portable extension for table or chop saw, or for holding the end of a long board for shaping.
CT 26E, RO125, sys-mft, sys-toolbox, a bunch of 30 year old tools I'm looking to replace.

Offline travisj

  • Posts: 328
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2018, 05:52 PM »

The Sys-MFT is actually extremely valuable as well - it's one of the most underrated Festool products out there.  At ~$78.00 I am very surprised more people don't feature it in threads.

I love my Sys-mft. Im about to buy a second. Use it all the time on the job. But in the time it takes to remove the top, align it on a top I could have squared the Parf system and been drilling a grid. Trying to accurately drill holds thru an mft top is needlessly slow if you want accuracy and are trying not to damage the template.

A router and template bit won't work on existing 20mm holes because the resulting holes will be too small. Enlarging the template mft top holes for a guide bushing is as much work as making a top. The Parf guide costs a bit more than a pre  made top but is so much more useful than a fixed template.
I'm very happy with its purchase. Now I just need to find a way to simply make the Sys-mft tops....



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
[/quote]

I misspoke.  A router and a bearing guided flush trim bit is what I meant to say.  Lay the MFT top on the new surface, drill a clearance hole, and trim the the holes in the new surface with the flush trim bit.

This suggestion was years before the Parf Guide came into existence.  I have the Mk I version of the guide and used it on my outfeed table.  I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend it or use it again on whatever surface I wanted system holes in.


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Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5602
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2018, 06:27 PM »
The Sys-MFT is actually extremely valuable as well - it's one of the most underrated Festool products out there.  At ~$78.00 I am very surprised more people don't feature it in threads.

I agree...I have one attached to my CT 22 and one attached to my MIDI. Open them up and inside you’ll find pencils, felt markers, MFT clamps, a few sheets of sandpaper, a small pad of  note paper and a vac nozzle or vac brush. Pretty handy little mobile work bench.

Offline gnlman

  • Posts: 186
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2018, 04:36 PM »
Hi. I thought I'd bring this thread back to life, and glad I came across it today.

I ordered the Mark II system from Axeminster tools as it was not available in NA yet and was not sure when it would be...
I was planning on making a top for my paulk style workbench I am building, and wanted it for the holidays when I had some time off.

I rec'd it towards end of November and like a lot of people do, I opened up the package inspected it to make sure all parts where there and no damage..then put it back in the packaging until I was going to use it. I didn't check the sticks for alignment issues as they seemed to be fine just eyeballing the holes....

Today I decided to start my new top and when I tried to align the 2 sticks with the threaded pin, the pin was difficult to install...the sticks would not lay flat once thru both sticks which made me think something was off. I took the 2 sticks and stacked them like the OP and found the same results.

I have contacted Axeminster tools, and am totally confident they will sort this out for me.

I realise that this system is now available in NA, and the only reason I'm posting this again is there may be more folks that have now purchased this item, and like myself only inspected it for damage ect., and not used it yet. Hopefully if you are one of them and read this post you will check our sticks for accuracy in case you don't use the system for a while and when you go to use it you can't.
The rest of the parts for the system seem to be very accurate and machined very well to me. I'm sure once this gets sorted out it will be a great system for making larger benchtops.
Greg



« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 04:46 PM by gnlman »

Offline Bernmc

  • Posts: 40
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2018, 06:33 PM »
I've also got my PGII from Axminster recently, and used over the last few days. I didn't have any issues with the standard spacing grid - everything seemed to line up properly. Where I did encounter a problem was with the offset 32 hole, which seems to be out. I couldn't install the little pin with the stick flat on the table, and when I used Peter's recommended 'put the pin in the stick in the air and then place the whole thing on the table, it bowed the parf stick slightly (and seems to have left a permanent slight bow/twist in the guide).

I'm not confident enough in my own skill and accuracy to rule out user error, but it would seem strange that everything else seems to line up perfectly. I'll let Axminster know and see what comes of it. I have a Paulk workbench pending, and two tops to do, so it'll get another workout shortly.

Hard to photograph well, but I had a go. ALthough the pic is of the no. 10 hole, it’s actually the 32 offset hole drilled previously, and I was then using the parf stick to check alignment. Side view is the bow in the stick now (it’s not pinned to the bench in this pic)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 08:04 PM by Bernmc »

Offline wch

  • Posts: 7
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2019, 01:31 AM »
I received my replacement Parf sticks from Axminster. The package arrived fairly beat up. In the original order, the kit arrived in a tube inside a box, and was well protected. This time, it was just the tube, with no box.

290128-0

The Parf sticks were bent.

290130-1

I was able to bend them back a bit, but they still didn't quite rest flat.

I'll call my first pair of Parf sticks A and B, and the second pair C and D. As I described earlier, the holes in A and B were slightly out of alignment. So were the holes in C and D. Luckily, the holes in A and C did line up, so I used that pair. (Of the six possible pairings, that was the only pair where the holes were in good alignment.)

Even though C was slightly bent, it didn't cause any problems with the hole layout.

This time, the hole layout went much more smoothly. In my previous attempt, I had some situations where I extended the top and bottom rows of 3mm holes to the right, but then could not get the Parf stick to line up with both the right-most top and bottom holes. This time, I didn't have that problem. There were a few situations where it was very tight and difficult to insert two distant pins through the Parf stick holes into the 3mm holes drilled in the MDF, but I found that I was able to push the pins sideways just a little, and since the MDF has a little give to it, this would slightly extend or shorten the distance between the pair of pins, allowing them to seat all the way in the Parf stick.

I found that inserting and removing the pins was in general very difficult because the fit in the holes was very tight. There's no way I could have inserted and removed them by hand without assistance. I ended up putting clamps on the pins (and leaving them on) so that there was a much larger handle to push, pull, and twist the pins. Here's a picture of the 20mm guide pinned to the worktop, where each pin is being held by a quick clamp.

290134-2

I added some holes that were offset by 48mm both horizontally and vertically, and I used the UJK chamfer cutter to chamfer the holes. Here is the end result. I think it turned out very nicely!

290132-3

One thing that I was curious about was how close to perpendicular the 20mm holes would be. I drilled the 3mm holes as close to perpendicular as I could by hand, and the same for the 20mm holes. The guides help immensely, but still, most of the holes were slightly out of perpendicular. Here is a typical one; some were slightly better, some were slightly worse. (For this photo, I positioned the square from the direction that had the most error.)

290136-4

I also noticed that holes on one side of the the worktop tended to tilt one way, and holes on the other side tended to tilt the other way, probably because I have a systematic bias when drilling the holes (say, angling to the right), and I stood on opposite sides of the table to drill holes that were on opposite sides.

This could be an issue when the dogs are used to position the guide rail. Obviously, the thicker the stock being cut, the higher up the guide rail will be, and so the greater the cut error. I suspect that the small amount of error won't cause any real problems. The error could be reduced by using dog holes that are as far apart as possible -- this will reduce the error angle.

I also noticed that if I placed three dogs in one row, then pushed a good straightedge up against them, in most cases I could rock the straightedge a little bit (with the middle dog acting as the pivot point) if it was on one side of the dogs, but not the other. This indicates that the holes are slightly non-colinear. Again, I suspect that the amount of error is small enough that it won't cause any problems in real-world usage.

290140-5

I don't have access to a Festool MFT table, so I don't know how my worktop compares in terms of accuracy. At any rate, I am looking forward to getting some good use out of it!

Offline cubevandude

  • Posts: 48
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2019, 08:54 AM »
I'd be wild if I got a package like that.
I'd say your problems are because your sticks are bent.  The tolerances are so tight any bend would affects how it works.  I have the mark 1 system from Lee Valley and bent one of the pins ever so slightly and it is tighter to insert, just by lifting up one end of the stick before removing the pin.   I've never had any problems with accuracy with the Mark 1 jig.  They whole key to the system is drilling the 3mm holes properly as they are the guide for the 20mm bit.  There are a few videos our there in which they are not using the guide dog when drilling the 3mm holes.  I think that is why they created the MarkII. To try and eliminate human error.

Offline wch

  • Posts: 7
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2019, 12:29 AM »
A few more follow-up notes on this:

I did the four-cut test on a 24"x24" piece of hardboard, and the error I found per cut was only 0.021 degrees, which is actually better than the 0.031 which Peter Parfitt in the where he tested it. So I'm very pleased with the accuracy of the work top!

One thing worth mentioning is that the hardboard was only 3/32" thick; it's possible that the error will be larger with thicker stock due to holes being slightly off from being perfectly vertical (as I showed in an earlier photo), and the higher-positioned rail therefore being more offset.

I finished the table with three coats of water-based polyurethane. This had the result of making the surface a bit rougher and grippier. I think it's because the water raised the "grain" of the MDF. I'm glad this happened, because I have had some issues with narrow stock moving when it's being cut. I would actually like to make the surface even grippier than it is, but I'm not sure how to do that now.


I'd be wild if I got a package like that.
I'd say your problems are because your sticks are bent.  The tolerances are so tight any bend would affects how it works.

I actually found that the bent sticks (which were from the second shipment) didn't cause problems in accuracy. I made sure to push the bent part flat when I used it. The problem was that the holes were not spaced exactly the same in the first pair of Parf sticks. I haven't contacted Axminster about it yet because I've been very busy with other things. Hopefully they'll be able to provide some sort of remedy.

Offline box185

  • Posts: 57
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2019, 01:01 AM »
What is important (for the resulting "squareness" or "perpendicularity" of the resulting hole pattern), however, is that the spacing between the holes is consistent - and that the two sticks used are identical.

I'm sure there are a lot of people here who are not interested in this level of detail, but I'll post this information because I found the results interesting. I have the MK II Parf Guide System and like the OP, I also noticed problems with the hole spacing. I finally got around to making some careful measurements, and discovered a pattern.

First, I checked the hole diameters with metric Gauge Pins. The results seemed good - most holes were 6.00 mm or 6.01 mm ( only one hole was 6.02 mm ). The distance between the holes, however, seems to alternate between being 0.003 to 0.004 inch short on the expected value and being 0.003 to 0.004 inch long. With that much difference between the measurements, my dial calipers were accurate enough to detect the pattern. I was also able to measure the distance between one pair of holes, lock the calipers and clearly see that the adjacent pair of holes are different. The measurements were rounded to the closest 0.001 inch.

PS 1      PS 2
3.539   3.539
3.547   3.547
3.540   3.540
3.547   3.548
3.539   3.540
3.547   3.546
3.540   3.540
3.547   3.548
3.539   3.540
3.547   3.547

Given the 96 mm spacing of 6 mm holes, the expected distance between the holes should be 96 - 6 mm, or 3.5433 inches.

I contacted Axminster on 20 December as Peter Parfitt suggested. On 03 January, I reached out again and received the following reply.

"We are currently working on a solution to this issue and the correct stock will be dispatched shortly

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Kevin King
Specialist Sales Advisor
"

I have not heard anything since 03 January.

I am not an expert in tolerance measurements, but the pattern I saw seems to indicate a quality issue with the MK II product.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 07:26 AM by box185 »

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2019, 08:08 AM »
I have been in contact with Axminster about this and they believe that a batch of 5 pairs of rulers may be affected by a manufacturing error. They had already sold out of the Mark 2 system before this came to light. They are now waiting for some blanks to arrive in order to produce replacements and new stock.

Unfortunately the Christmas and New Year breaks, which were in two short periods for Axminster, have delayed he arrival of the blanks.

I am really sorry for the disruption and disappointment that this has caused for those affected. As soon as I get any more news I will let you know.

Peter

Offline wch

  • Posts: 7
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2019, 10:20 AM »
box185, good idea to measure the spacing between each adjacent pair of holes.

I just measured the spacing on my ruler A (as I mentioned previously, I labeled the two from my first shipment A and B, and the two from the second shipment C and D). My results, in mm:

89.91
90.07
89.90
90.06
89.93
90.07
89.95
90.07
89.92
90.10

I checked the other rulers as well, and found that they all had a similar alternating pattern. I will be contacting Axminster about this as well.

Although this didn't prevent me from making a work surface that gives me very accurate results with the 4-cut test, I do wonder if some of the tight spots (where I had to push the pins sideways a bit) were caused in part by this issue.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2019, 10:35 AM »
Hi @wch

Can you provide a picture of the equipment and method that you are using to produce results to 2 decimal places of a mm please?

Peter

Offline wch

  • Posts: 7
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2019, 10:55 AM »
Can you provide a picture of the equipment and method that you are using to produce results to 2 decimal places of a mm please?

I'm just using some cheap digital calipers. It reads to .01mm, but I don't know if it's really that accurate. I'm sure that, combined with my measurement method, the values I gave were not accurate to .01mm. It might be more like +/- .02 or .03mm, but I can't say for sure.

The way I measured was to put the jaws in the two holes, and while pushing the jaws together gently, and I wiggled the caliper until it settled to a minimum value.

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Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 422
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2019, 01:07 PM »
Can you provide a picture of the equipment and method that you are using to produce results to 2 decimal places of a mm please?

I'm just using some cheap digital calipers. It reads to .01mm, but I don't know if it's really that accurate. I'm sure that, combined with my measurement method, the values I gave were not accurate to .01mm. It might be more like +/- .02 or .03mm, but I can't say for sure.

The way I measured was to put the jaws in the two holes, and while pushing the jaws together gently, and I wiggled the caliper until it settled to a minimum value.

Another way to measure for hole center spacing would be to put pins in the holes and measure to the outside of the dowels/pins, then subtract the diameter of one pin from the measurement.  It is likely that both the drilled holes and the ground pins/dowels are of high precision and the pin diameters are quite easy to measure.  I have found it more convenient and more repeatable to measure this way than trying to measure directly inside between two  holes.  Just a suggestion to consider.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2019, 01:25 PM »
Nobody is disputing that there has been a small number of rulers produced which were outside of tolerance but I must caution everyone about measuring techniques.

As a rule of thumb any digital device in a sensible budget range should be viewed as not accurate beyond +/- 5 of the of the final decimal point on the screen. Some can be better and the top of the range devices will be very accurate indeed.

When Axminster agreed to take on the various new "Parf" products I insisted that they had the measuring equipment necessary to do their QA. In order to measure the size and spacing of the holes on the rulers they have purchased a machine for that task alone. It cost over £25,000 and there are about another £10,000 of precision reference blocks, probes and so on to make the whole thing work. Also, it is used in a temperature controlled area and items introduced to that area have to be given time to adjust to that temperature.

So, digital kit in the sub £1,000 range should always be used with the final digit to the right of the decimal point as a rounding mechanism for the digit to the left. That means that 1.76 should be read as 1.8 and 0.7182 should be read as 0.718.

Peter

Offline box185

  • Posts: 57
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2019, 02:11 PM »
I spoke to one of the machinists where I work and asked him how to measure the distance between holes spaced on 96 mm centers. He suggested a technique, but also cautioned me to consider the instrument that I am using to measure with.

When I started, I was not certain that I would accomplish anything. That changed when I was able to measure the distance between one hole pair, lock the dial calipers so they could not move, and then proceed to the adjacent hole pair.

I absolutely question the precision of my measurements, but I do not question the fact that I could visibly see the difference when I placed the locked dial calipers in an adjacent hole pair (0.006 to 0.008 inch is visible). When I moved on to the next hole pair, the calipers fell into position. I understood that a pattern existed as I moved down the rule - adjacent hole pairs were different, but the hole pair next to the adjacent hole pair was nearly identical.

I understand the difficulty in making accurate and precise tools, the accumulated errors are always a problem. What tolerance is the hole pattern of this tool designed and tested to?

Measurements aside - I really like the Parf Guide System, but I started questioning my experience when I read the the initial post.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 02:15 PM by box185 »

Offline box185

  • Posts: 57
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2019, 02:24 PM »
When Axminster agreed to take on the various new "Parf" products I insisted that they had the measuring equipment necessary to do their QA. In order to measure the size and spacing of the holes on the rulers they have purchased a machine for that task alone. It cost over £25,000 and there are about another £10,000 of precision reference blocks, probes and so on to make the whole thing work. Also, it is used in a temperature controlled area and items introduced to that area have to be given time to adjust to that temperature.

In addition to having the equipment, they should also have agreed to use the equipment; loop-holes are everywhere. My dial calipers were significantly less than £25,000. Purchased back in 1985, I think I paid $170 and they weren't even digital.


Offline Morse

  • Posts: 2
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2019, 03:55 PM »
I own both the MK1 and MK2 versions of the Parf Guide System. I'm just wondering if what I have observed is acceptable. 

First I place a MK1 and MK2 stick, back to back ( one on top the other) and insert one of the new MK 2 pins through both sticks from the MK 2 side.  I insert the MK 2 pin until the MK 2 pin shoulder passes thru the MK 2 stick and rests on the back of the MK 1 stick.




The second image shows that when I go to the opposite end of the overlaid sticks, I am not able to fully insert a MK 2 pin through both sticks to the point the MK 2 pin shoulder passes thru through the MK 2 stick and touches the underlying MK 1 stick. 

If the MK 1 and MK 2 holes spacing were the same I would expect to be able to line up the pin on both ends at the same time.

I'm hoping what I've described is nothing to worry about.  I have communicated this with Axminster and their solution is for me to return the MK 2 System (using their pre paid label).

I'd really like to keep the MK 2 System. Maybe what I've described is not important  Or maybe I just need new MK 2 sticks which I'm not sure they offer.

Any feedback would be appreciated. I order frequently from Axminster and their shipping times and prices are not out of line. For me usually quicker than an East Coast US order.  I am in California

Offline Morse

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2019, 04:02 PM »
I see I attached same image twice I will try again with first image

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2019, 11:32 PM »
Anyone with rulers which are faulty should contact Axminster Customer Services. But do make a top with the system and check that it works as a very minor variation between a pair of rulers may not be an issue.

Always contact Axminster Customer Services first if you have any problems. They manufacture and distribute the kit and I am unable to help other than provide the guidance that I have given above.

Peter

Offline box185

  • Posts: 57
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2019, 06:16 AM »
Great news . . . Axminster has responded as shown below.

"A new set of rules have been checked with the correct hole spacings and we have arranged to dispatch them later today.

We would like to pass our thanks to you with regard to the feedback and we have changed our manufacturing procedure to accommodate the change.

Regards

Kevin King
Specialist Sales Advisor"

As I mentioned earlier, I really do like the Parf Guide System. I would encourage anyone interested in making their own MFT/3 to use Peter Parfitt's PGS and his technique. The man is a wizard and makes wonderful video for YouTube - great teacher.

I also appreciate the open forum available on the FOG for discussing issues that people have with their woodworking related tools.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2019, 10:50 AM »
Excellent and many thanks for the kind words.

Peter

Offline Bernmc

  • Posts: 40
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2019, 10:44 PM »
Had a similar mail from Axminster today- They’re putting a new set of rulers in an order I have waiting for dispatch.

Very happy with their service - things go wrong occasionally, and it’s the way a company deals with an error that really sets the good ones apart.

Offline Sean KS

  • Posts: 104
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2019, 12:39 AM »
I’m very happy to see a great resolution on this. Peter, you have an amazing mind. Thank you for your work and the grace with which you handle yourself.

Offline casper

  • Posts: 16
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2019, 08:13 AM »
I have just been told by email that the Mk2 system will be available for retail sale until next spring which seems rather vague.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2019, 08:37 AM »
I have just been told by email that the Mk2 system will be available for retail sale until next spring which seems rather vague.

I suspect that bulk export to dealers will only come when Axminster can gear up to the high demand. They have sold out 2 or 3 times since the launch and despite this the demand for the original system remains high.

Peter

Offline box185

  • Posts: 57
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2019, 10:41 PM »
Just to follow up on the second set of Mk II Parf Sticks that were sent out by Axminster . . .

I received the second pair of Parf Sticks this morning and carefully measured them in the same manner that was used to measure the initial pair.  One of the two Parf Sticks was excellent, with only 0.001 to 0.002 inch variation between the hole spacings - this error is most likely attributable to the measurement method, given that I was using a dial caliper. The second Parf Stick exhibited the same alternating error as the initial pair - alternating between positive and negative 0.003 to 0.004 inch.

3.543   +0.0003         3.540   +0.0033
3.542   +0.0013         3.547    -0.0037
3.543   +0.0003         3.539   +0.0043
3.541   +0.0023         3.546    -0.0027
3.544    -0.0007         3.539   +0.0043   
3.543   +0.0003         3.546    -0.0027
3.543   +0.0003         3.539   +0.0043
3.542   +0.0013         3.545    -0.0017
3.543   +0.0003         3.539   +0.0043   
3.542   +0.0013         3.545    -0.0017   

One other detail I noticed was that of the four Parf Sticks I now have, three of them have what I would call an embossed UJK logo. These are also the Parf Sticks which have the alternating error pattern. The one Parf Stick that appears to have the much improved precision has a silk screened UJK logo.

Paul

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #45 on: January 25, 2019, 01:01 AM »
Hi Paul

You need to report this to Axminster. I cannot help you and they are not here on the FOG.

Peter

Offline box185

  • Posts: 57
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2019, 07:54 AM »
You need to report this to Axminster. I cannot help you and they are not here on the FOG.

Peter, the post was not directed at you. I am posting this information based on what was observed by the OP. In the open forum of the FOG, there are numerous discussions about tools. This is just another open discussion about this specific tool.

If one were to look at the Axminster website and see the description of this tool, one could read:
  • Straightforward to use, produces highly accurate results
  • Based on the Pythagoras' theorem for infallible accuracy
Some users may have a different experience, and question their technique. Others may question the tool . . .

I have already contacted Axminster - thank you.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2019, 08:10 AM »
@box185

I understand.

I have asked Axminster to sort this out.

Peter

Offline wch

  • Posts: 7
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2019, 12:46 AM »
Axminster sent me another set of replacement Parf sticks (my third pair now), which they said were checked for accuracy. Like box185's replacements, there was one "old-style" and one "new-style" ruler in the package. The old-style ruler has the logo embossed (imprinted) in the surface, while the new-style ruler has the logo raised on the surface.

New (raised logo) above, old (embossed logo) below:
292450-0

These are the spacings I measured, in mm:

Old-styleNew-style
89.9290.05
90.0189.99
89.9790.02
90.0289.98
89.9390.03
90.0389.99
89.9490.03
90.0289.97
89.9290.03
90.0689.94

According to my measurements, the new-style ruler has more consistent hole spacing than the old one.

When I stacked the on top of each other and connected them using the fixing pin at hole 0, and found that for some hole position, the longer drill guide would go through both sticks easily, for some, it went through but was a bit tight, and for some, it would not go through both.

292452-1

292454-2

I decided to calculate the overall positioning of of the holes, assuming that each hole is exactly 6.00mm in diameter, and that my measurements are accurate. (These assumptions may not be exactly true, but later on we'll see that they are still useful.) I then calculated the difference of the hole positions in the old and new ruler.

Old-styleNew-styleCumulative oldCumulative newDifference
89.9290.0595.9296.05-0.13
90.0189.99191.93192.04-0.11
89.9790.02287.9288.06-0.16
90.0289.98383.92384.04-0.12
89.9390.03479.85480.07-0.22
90.0389.99575.88576.06-0.18
89.9490.03671.82672.09-0.27
90.0289.97767.84768.06-0.22
89.9290.03863.76864.09-0.33
90.0689.94959.82960.03-0.21

The smallest difference was .11mm, and the largest was 0.33mm. I found that for the holes that were <.15mm apart, the drill guide went relatively easily through both holes. For the holes that were around .20mm apart, the drill guide would go through both holes, but it required a bit of force. For the two holes that were .27mm and .33mm apart, the drill guide would not go through both holes. (Note that with the fixing pin in place in hole 0 of both rulers, there was a little play, so the rulers could move a tiny bit.) So even if the numbers aren't exactly correct due to measurement error, they do correspond with the behavior of the drill guide.

All this said, I don't think that this necessarily problematic for getting good 90-degree cuts. As I mentioned earlier, I had very good results with the four-cut test on my second work surface, which was made with my previous set of rulers that had more error. To maximize consistency, I think it is probably a good idea to use one ruler to drill all of the holes, and use the other ruler only to form the hypotenuse of the 3-4-5 triangle. When I made my second work surface, I did this without really thinking about it, and looking back on it I think it probably helped with the accuracy of the final result.

Overall, I think the design of the system is brilliant; I just wish I had gotten more accurately-made rulers from the beginning.

A note regarding the accuracy of the digital calipers I have: I agree that in general, one can't expect inexpensive measuring devices to have good accuracy, but I've been pleasantly surprised by these. When measuring in inches, they record a resolution of 0.0005 inches. When measuring in mm, they record a resolution of 0.01mm. I have a pair of 1-2-3 blocks, and when set to inch mode, this caliper says that, for both of them, all three dimensions are within .0005 of the inch of expected. Now, it's possible that the 1-2-3 blocks and the calipers have manufacturing and measurement error that cancel out, but a much simpler theory is that the blocks and calipers are very accurate. Other objects I've measured also result in readings that seem to be very accurate. The reviews I've seen for these cheap digital calipers and similar ones agree that they are surprisingly good.

Offline Bernmc

  • Posts: 40
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2019, 07:01 PM »
I finally got to play with my replacement parf stick yesterday

292522-0

It's not that obvious in the photo, but the original stick on the far left is a distinctly different colour to the other three, and it's this stick that is inaccurate. It's more tarnished than the others.
All three other sticks - the two replacements and one of my originals - appear to be accurate. At least all the holes line up, and can be anchored together by the various pins and locking wotsits in the kit.

Milled half of my bench (it does take a long time to do something like a full-size Paulk worktop), and did a few bench dog/track saw square cuts, and they are perfect. Made me pretty happy  [big grin]

292524-1

Offline box185

  • Posts: 57
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2019, 09:41 PM »
I received a third pair of Parf Sticks today. Both of them have the embossed UJK logo.  I am on travel this week, but I do look forward to checking these new parts out next week.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 183
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2019, 09:52 PM »
@Bernmc - Looking at your first picture, maybe it's just the camera/angle, but, some of the holes seem to be deformed (not crisp/sharp)?

Where did you get that small dust collection hood?

I was ready to buy one of these for making three 32" x 48" tops but after reading through this thread I'm worried about the quality of the components, time to bore all my holes, and it's not in stock (likely due to the quality issues).

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2019, 10:07 PM »
@Peter Parfitt

Anyone with rulers which are faulty should contact Axminster Customer Services. But do make a top with the system and check that it works as a very minor variation between a pair of rulers may not be an issue.

Always contact Axminster Customer Services first if you have any problems. They manufacture and distribute the kit and I am unable to help other than provide the guidance that I have given above.

Peter

Peter,

I think you need a hotdog with lots of mustard

Offline box185

  • Posts: 57
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2019, 11:11 PM »
@Bernmc - Looking at your first picture, maybe it's just the camera/angle, but, some of the holes seem to be deformed (not crisp/sharp)?

I noticed the deformed holes on some of the first Parf Sticks that I received. When I checked them with gauge pins, they were good except for the hole to hole spacing. The holes in the  silk screened parts that I have do not look deformed.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 11:17 PM by box185 »

Offline Bernmc

  • Posts: 40
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2019, 12:11 AM »
@Bernmc - Looking at your first picture, maybe it's just the camera/angle, but, some of the holes seem to be deformed (not crisp/sharp)?

Where did you get that small dust collection hood?

I was ready to buy one of these for making three 32" x 48" tops but after reading through this thread I'm worried about the quality of the components, time to bore all my holes, and it's not in stock (likely due to the quality issues).

Mike, it's the camera angle. They are all sharper than a sharp thing on a sharp day.

I 3D-printed the dust collection hood - it works really well (PETG on a Prusa i3 Mk3): https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2952709 - 'dust' collection is essential for this process as the special forstner bit peels the MDF apart in a paper-like ribbon which quickly clogs the jig if not removed.

I believe the quality issues have been resolved and you can buy with confidence - the new parf sticks have addressed the issue I originally had. The rest of the system is fantastically well-machined. In fact, tolerances are so tight that I occasionally need to go back and introduce a bit of wobbly in the guide holes because the pins are so tight. Similarly , the dogs are a very secure fit in the finished product. And when I did have the issue originally, Axminster sorted it out without fuss.

It definitely takes time, but I think that aside from a CNC'd top, it's the most accurate way to mill something like this. I did have a pop at using a 20mm router bit, and while you might get everything square with a considerable amount of care, the holes are just too sloppy for standard bench dogs.

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 807
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2019, 09:32 AM »
@Mike Goetzke

I got mine from YellowBoxshed, price is low and shipping was good. But the best is it fit like a glove on the Parf guide. i'll post a photo of mine later tonight. I also ordered a few goodies to work with MFT tops and I'm very impressed by the quality.



« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 08:47 PM by Mario Turcot »
Mario

Offline jasen

  • Posts: 37
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2019, 06:47 PM »
If you have a 3D Printer https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2952709

Works well

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #57 on: February 08, 2019, 08:30 PM »
@Mario Turcot @ Mike Goetzke @jasen and All:
Not to discourage the Makers and their 3D Printers, but the rest of us may want to consider what $34.95 from  TSO’s Minnesota warehouse buys you.

Peter Parfitt explains it best:
                   https://tsoproducts.com/tools-equipment/ujk-technology-parf-dust-port/
   
This seriously tooled, injection molded, snaps-on and stays-put Parf Dust Port from Axminster is part of the largest selection of AXMINSTER and UJK Brand products stocked in the US at TSOproducts.com
Hans and Eric
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline jasen

  • Posts: 37
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #58 on: February 08, 2019, 08:47 PM »
Another good option from TSO for the U.S.

Its all about options. Down under with US dollar and postage costs someone like Yellowbox shed is great for Aussies/Kiwis and another great option if you 3D Print.

OT. I want to buy $35 worth of Robertson bits (square) from Canada at a postage cost of $120CA!!

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 807
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2019, 08:54 PM »
@Mario Turcot @ Mike Goetzke @jasen and All:
Not to discourage the Makers and their 3D Printers, but the rest of us may want to consider what $34.95 from  TSO’s Minnesota warehouse buys you.

Peter Parfitt explains it best:
                   https://tsoproducts.com/tools-equipment/ujk-technology-parf-dust-port/
   
This seriously tooled, injection molded, snaps-on and stays-put Parf Dust Port from Axminster is part of the largest selection of AXMINSTER and UJK Brand products stocked in the US at TSOproducts.com
Hans and Eric

Unfortunately the Axminster dust hood was not available at the time I ordered the Parf Guide from TSO Products.  [crying]
Mario

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 807
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2019, 09:04 PM »
Another good option from TSO for the U.S.

Its all about options. Down under with US dollar and postage costs someone like Yellowbox shed is great for Aussies/Kiwis and another great option if you 3D Print.

OT. I want to buy $35 worth of Robertson bits (square) from Canada at a postage cost of $120CA!!

I hear you about postage fees. The order I did with Yellowboxshed came at a total of 96$ and the postage was 14.50$ I call this extremely fair. Personally I tried several times to order from Woodpecker Tools. Just last week they had a router bit I just received from Toolstoday, Toolstoday charged me 26$ for shipping, there was 2 bits. Woodpecker was charging me 37$ for a single bit and the bit was 35$  [eek]


Mario

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 858
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2019, 09:15 PM »
Cross shipping costs have prevented me from buying more tools or things from the US. Recently, I bought some magazines on eBay and had them shipped to a US address free; to a Canadian location? The shipping cost would be five times the total cost of the magazines!

Another reason why I shop mostly at Lee Valley for woodworking tools, and any vendor whose products are not carried by Lee Valley, or any local tool vendors in Canada seldom gets my business.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2019, 09:17 PM »
Another good option from TSO for the U.S.

Its all about options. Down under with US dollar and postage costs someone like Yellowbox shed is great for Aussies/Kiwis and another great option if you 3D Print.

OT. I want to buy $35 worth of Robertson bits (square) from Canada at a postage cost of $120CA!!

Non-US woodworkers:
TSO hears you. Until we developed capable Dealers in key geographic areas we subsidized international shipping so we know from our own pocketbook how expensive that is [sad].

Since then we have established  capable stocking dealers in Australia and New Zealand CARBATEC, in Europe AXMINSTER and GereedschapPro plus South Africa's BPM TOOLCRAFT and HARDWARE CENTRE with ULTIMATE TOOLS in Canada our very first International Dealer.

We thank them all for offering our customers a choice.

Hans and Eric
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 127
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #63 on: February 09, 2019, 04:37 AM »
After reading this thread I checked my Parf sticks and they seem spot on, mine is a Mk 2 system. Whenever I make a top of any type with the system, I always check for square cutting etc, and from the many I’ve made so far, all seems fine and on par with my MFT/3.
Hopefully any faulty versions of the systems are few and far between.

I also just want to reassure anybody thinking of buying these systems, or anything else from Axminster Tools. Apart from a possible inconvenience if something is damaged, not up to standard, or any other cause for disappointment, rest assured Axminster will sort it out and make sure you are happy.
Without going into detail, I use many suppliers and buy tools from many companies, and without doubt, Axminster have the best customer service, that I have personally ever experienced. That alone means a lot too me.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #64 on: February 09, 2019, 07:17 AM »
After reading this thread I checked my Parf sticks and they seem spot on, mine is a Mk 2 system. Whenever I make a top of any type with the system, I always check for square cutting etc, and from the many I’ve made so far, all seems fine and on par with my MFT/3.
Hopefully any faulty versions of the systems are few and far between.

I also just want to reassure anybody thinking of buying these systems, or anything else from Axminster Tools. Apart from a possible inconvenience if something is damaged, not up to standard, or any other cause for disappointment, rest assured Axminster will sort it out and make sure you are happy.
Without going into detail, I use many suppliers and buy tools from many companies, and without doubt, Axminster have the best customer service, that I have personally ever experienced. That alone means a lot too me.

I absolutely agree and it was one of the major factors that convinced me that they should take on my Parf (R) products.

Peter

Offline Euclid

  • Posts: 135
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #65 on: February 09, 2019, 08:36 AM »
Whilst we are on the subject of Axminster (rather than specifically the ‘PGS’)...

Although I’d bought from Axminster by mail order (online) a number of times in the past (with considerable satisfaction - well, total satisfaction to be honest), I’d never visited one of their stores.
Having now done that (my “local” one, in Kent - not the easiest of journeys) I’ve been back several times because it is just a nice place to go... calm and spacious, loads of kit to look at and accessories to browse, and good relaxed atmosphere. The staff seem to be endlessly patient and helpful, knowledgeable and enthusiastic, with no pressure to buy and leave you alone until you want help. Odd items that have been out-of-stock, they have sent on to me free of delivery charges.

My only real “complaint” is that on each visit I’ve bought (and spent) much more than I intended when I left home...!

Sorry if all of that sounds like a “shill” or covert marketing for them, but it isn’t... I just feel they deserve a  public “thumbs up”. Yes, some of the stuff (eg. Some Festool items, but not all) can be found a little bit cheaper elsewhere, but overall ther prices seem very fair and sometimes very good; I’m happy to support, when I can, a business that provides both good service online and an extremely good “bricks-and-mortar” presence.

I’ve been buying quite a bit of “UJK” stuff lately and am very pleased with the quality and the finish; though I don’t (yet) have a Parf Guide System...
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 08:40 AM by Euclid »

Offline Bill Fleming

  • Posts: 21
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #66 on: February 09, 2019, 11:51 AM »
I am in need of a new top for my MFT/1080 and the cost of a new top is about equal to the MK2 and of course with the MK2 I can do many things.

So is all this issue of MK2 quality sorted such that getting a properly machined and packaged version more likely than not?

Thx Bill

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #67 on: February 09, 2019, 12:11 PM »
I am in need of a new top for my MFT/1080 and the cost of a new top is about equal to the MK2 and of course with the MK2 I can do many things.

So is all this issue of MK2 quality sorted such that getting a properly machined and packaged version more likely than not?

Thx Bill
@Bill Fleming - based on the answer I received earlier this week from a senior technical manager at AXMINSTER the answer is an unqualified YES.

TSO's stock replenishment order from AXMINSTER with PGS Mark 2 was ready to ship to us by airfreight. Sign up here to be notified when PGS Mark 2 is back in stock here in the US:

            https://tsoproducts.com/workholding-accessories/ujk-technology-parf-guide-system/


Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline Bill Fleming

  • Posts: 21
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #68 on: February 09, 2019, 01:24 PM »
Great news, signed up to be notified on your site!

Thx Bill

Offline box185

  • Posts: 57
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #69 on: February 10, 2019, 01:47 PM »
I checked the third pair of Parf Sticks that I received from Axminster - greatly improved, but still the patterned error.

About 0.003 inch difference between adjacent hole pair. Good enough already . . . move along.

Axminster has done a great job following up on this issue. Still curious how a patterned error appears, but it doesn't matter.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 183
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #70 on: February 11, 2019, 09:54 AM »
Talked to Axminster this morning and they say don’t expect availability until mid-March! I need to look for CNC supplier for my three new tops.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #71 on: February 11, 2019, 11:13 AM »
Talked to Axminster this morning and they say don’t expect availability until mid-March! I need to look for CNC supplier for my three new tops.

Mike, - we just received confirmation that our AXMINSTER shipment has shipped airfreight to TSO's Minnesota warehouse. Should be available to ship out to our customers some time next week. automatic notifications will go out to all who have signed up on our website:

         https://tsoproducts.com/workholding-accessories/ujk-technology-parf-guide-system/

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Online Solly

  • Posts: 6
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #72 on: February 25, 2019, 04:35 PM »
Looks like the Mark II is back in stock at TSO - but alas not shipping to Australia ;-(

Still showing as backorder at Axminster ...

Anyone know of another way to get one in Oz?

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #73 on: February 25, 2019, 04:43 PM »
Looks like the Mark II is back in stock at TSO - but alas not shipping to Australia ;-(

Still showing as backorder at Axminster ...

Anyone know of another way to get one in Oz?

I spoke to them a couple of days ago to check what is happening. When the Mark 2 PGS was launched they had estimated the demand for the first quarter. That initial stock sold out in a matter of days. They were then going flat out to try to keep up but it was an impossible task. Things were not helped by a hiccup in the raw material supply chain and with so many back orders they had to stop taking new orders. I understand that they are working some extra shifts and new stock will be available very soon. I know that they are a commercial organisation but I feel sorry for them as everything was going so well and they were overwhelmed by demand. It sounds like a nice state to be in but I can assure you that it is not quite what they were expecting. They have tried to balance the flow of stock to dealers outside the UK and to direct customers. Things should be back to normal within 7 days.

Peter

Online Solly

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #74 on: February 25, 2019, 08:41 PM »
Great thanks for the update Peter, much appreciated  [thumbs up]

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 183
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #75 on: February 25, 2019, 08:45 PM »
Really interested in this product. With the quality spill on the Parf II are the ones at TSO fully corrected? Just wondering why TSO would have them before Axminster.

Mike

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #76 on: February 25, 2019, 10:19 PM »
Really interested in this product. With the quality spill on the Parf II are the ones at TSO fully corrected? Just wondering why TSO would have them before Axminster.

Mike
TSO has the widest selection of AXMINSTER  UJK brand products in North America. No wonder that they see to it our customer base is supported.
If you didn't get in on our latest shipments today with your order, you may want to sign up to be notified and act promptly when you see availability.

One difference with the Parf Guide sold by TSO: we add a Stainless 10mm Clamping Collar for customer use in lieu of the standard Aluminum stop collar. This $ 10.00 item is quickly appreciated once you start to use the PGS.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Online Solly

  • Posts: 6
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #77 on: February 26, 2019, 03:45 AM »
Really interested in this product. With the quality spill on the Parf II are the ones at TSO fully corrected? Just wondering why TSO would have them before Axminster.

Mike

Very pertinent question Mike, especially in the context of Peter's notes above - I hope burning the candle at both ends to meet demand isn't resulting in repeat manufacturing / quality control concerns ... hopefully Peter and/or Hans can put our minds to rest.

Solly

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #78 on: February 26, 2019, 08:59 AM »
to all: the concern with the Parf Stick irregularities were traced to a supplier. Axminster told us they have brought this operation in house to have control over the operations. That is the reason they are behind on deliveries - replacing non-conforming product in the field plus starting up and ramping production of the involved parts in house./

In the end you can rest assured that this issue has top managements attention. Probably never going to be an issue again.

The result is worth the wait.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline jayshahu

  • Posts: 2
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #79 on: March 11, 2019, 07:51 PM »
I have been lurking on this forum for a bit now. I am interested in the PARF Guide mark II system.

I had a question about compatible bench dogs.

I am aware that lee valley has a couple of bench dogs which have a lip and no chamfer. The UJK has a guide pup and a guide dog with a chamfer.

If I go make a table top with 20 mm holes which dont have a chamfer would I still be able to the UJK guide pup and guide dogs? Will my track saw register properly or am I better off using the less valley dogs.?




Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #80 on: March 11, 2019, 08:21 PM »
@jayshahu – you need not let the Chamfer issue concern you. Here’s why:
If your Dogs don’t have a Chamfer – nothing to worry about.
If your UJK Dogs have a Chamfer: nothing to worry about either because you can buy AXMINSTER / UJK’s Chamfer Tool – modest cost and very effective and easy to use.
Whether your benchtop has chamfered 20mm holes or non-chamfered has no other effect. Think of the Chamfer as an option which does not preclude using any style of Dog
ULTIMATE Tool in Burnaby BC carry our line of Dogs in two tolerance versions: Standard and CF-Dogs = Close Fit Dogs which are the identical diameter and tolerance as the UJK Parf Dogs. You can tell our Dogs apart because they have a set of Double Grooves to make it easier to extract them 😊

Enjoy the Mark 2 – worth the wait
Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA

Offline jayshahu

  • Posts: 2
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #81 on: March 11, 2019, 11:03 PM »
Thanks. I will check out ultimate tools

@jayshahu – you need not let the Chamfer issue concern you. Here’s why:
If your Dogs don’t have a Chamfer – nothing to worry about.
If your UJK Dogs have a Chamfer: nothing to worry about either because you can buy AXMINSTER / UJK’s Chamfer Tool – modest cost and very effective and easy to use.
Whether your benchtop has chamfered 20mm holes or non-chamfered has no other effect. Think of the Chamfer as an option which does not preclude using any style of Dog
ULTIMATE Tool in Burnaby BC carry our line of Dogs in two tolerance versions: Standard and CF-Dogs = Close Fit Dogs which are the identical diameter and tolerance as the UJK Parf Dogs. You can tell our Dogs apart because they have a set of Double Grooves to make it easier to extract them 😊

Enjoy the Mark 2 – worth the wait
Hans

Offline Bernmc

  • Posts: 40
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #82 on: March 12, 2019, 03:13 AM »
I have the UJK chamfer tool, but with 300 holes in my worktop to do, I found whizzing around with a trim router and a rounding bit much quicker and easier, with a similar result to the chamfer tool.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 127
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #83 on: March 12, 2019, 09:33 AM »
I chamfer all the dog holes in all my tops, as I like the chamfered dogs but, also it seems to keep edge damage to the holes at a minimum.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 183
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #84 on: March 12, 2019, 10:50 AM »
I have the UJK chamfer tool, but with 300 holes in my worktop to do, I found whizzing around with a trim router and a rounding bit much quicker and easier, with a similar result to the chamfer tool.

Couple weekends ago I did the same thing - rounded over 60 slots and chamfered about 250 holes (top & bottom). Used a dust mask and did this outside even though it was pretty cold out. I used a small cordless handheld router for the chamfers.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 127
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #85 on: March 12, 2019, 12:30 PM »
I have the UJK chamfer tool, but with 300 holes in my worktop to do, I found whizzing around with a trim router and a rounding bit much quicker and easier, with a similar result to the chamfer tool.

Couple weekends ago I did the same thing - rounded over 60 slots and chamfered about 250 holes (top & bottom). Used a dust mask and did this outside even though it was pretty cold out. I used a small cordless handheld router for the chamfers.

Yes same here, I use a 1/4” palm router and chamfer/bevel cutter.

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 183
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #86 on: March 15, 2019, 09:29 AM »
I had my original work table CNC'd because I had a few projects and got tired waiting on the MK2 to be back in stock. This is my first use of an MFT type table and I already have other ideas for special purpose tops requiring dog holes. So when I found the MK2 back in stock I ordered one at Axminister on Monday and received it Thursday (I'm in the Chicago area). I was somewhat skeptical of the cost but once you have one in your hand you will think it's a bargain. The rules are perfect twins. I would recommend this jig to anyone.

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1819
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #87 on: Yesterday at 11:42 AM »
FWIW I'd grabbed the Mk2 guide a while back directly from Axminster before TSO had them available. Only got around to looking at the sticks this past weekend and sure enough, they had the misalignment issue that started this thread. Went to Axminster's site yesterday late, entered the info into their issues form, received notice this AM that replacement sticks are shipping.

It also blows me away that anything I've ever ordered from them ships @ a very reasonable cost and arrives in 4-5 days to the US east coast.

@AxminsterTools - Kudos for fabulous customer service.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #88 on: Yesterday at 12:15 PM »
FWIW I'd grabbed the Mk2 guide a while back directly from Axminster before TSO had them available. Only got around to looking at the sticks this past weekend and sure enough, they had the misalignment issue that started this thread. Went to Axminster's site yesterday late, entered the info into their issues form, received notice this AM that replacement sticks are shipping.

It also blows me away that anything I've ever ordered from them ships @ a very reasonable cost and arrives in 4-5 days to the US east coast.

@AxminsterTools - Kudos for fabulous customer service.

RMW

Hi Richard,

I am not sure if Axminster monitor the FOG so I will pass this on to them.

I am sorry that your original Parf Sticks were faulty - a problem that they have narrowed down to one batch of I think 20, probably when someone was finishing up for the weekend !

Peter

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1819
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #89 on: Yesterday at 12:38 PM »
FWIW I'd grabbed the Mk2 guide a while back directly from Axminster before TSO had them available. Only got around to looking at the sticks this past weekend and sure enough, they had the misalignment issue that started this thread. Went to Axminster's site yesterday late, entered the info into their issues form, received notice this AM that replacement sticks are shipping.

It also blows me away that anything I've ever ordered from them ships @ a very reasonable cost and arrives in 4-5 days to the US east coast.

@AxminsterTools - Kudos for fabulous customer service.

RMW

Hi Richard,

I am not sure if Axminster monitor the FOG so I will pass this on to them.

I am sorry that your original Parf Sticks were faulty - a problem that they have narrowed down to one batch of I think 20, probably when someone was finishing up for the weekend !

Peter

Thanks Peter, appreciate you passing it along. I'm just glad that @wch noticed the problem originally and posted it here. I don't know what the end result would have been (i.e. how much deviation would have actually been introduced) but more accuracy is always better.

As a side note, it's been interesting to watch as companies like Axminster, Woodpeckers & TSO have gone thru the growing pains ramping up production of precision tools. During my limited foray into it with the Rip Dogs I ran into a couple of issues that required rework, it can be very time consuming especially for a dabbler like myself.  All 3 of the companies mentioned above are to me the gold-standard for how to deal with those challenges.

Cheers!

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 183
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #90 on: Yesterday at 05:19 PM »
Another somewhat disappointed customer.

When I received my MK2 everything looked good after a quick visual inspection. I had time to check the rules a little closer and think I too have an issue  [mad] even though I waited for rule issues to be flushed out.

Got somewhat specious when I took the plastic sleeves off the rules. Rules had many fingerprints and grease/goop marks on them. The UJK markings don't look the same so I'm wondering if I have a mix new/old rules (photos below).

My 96mm spaced holes if pinned at the zero hole will accept the long shoulder drill guide easily on most and with a twist of the guide on the others. The 32mm holes are similar to the 96mm. My issue is with the 48mm spaced holes. I couldn't even get the pin on the drill guide to go in. Upon further inspection the 48mm spacing holes in one of my rules are undersized!

Rule on bottom is the one with the issue - does it look like old stock? (look at last image - looks like I received two old stock)

Have emailed Axminister.

What bothers me is if they did indeed invest in expensive measuring devices why do they fail somewhat simple functional test performer by customers.

« Last Edit: Yesterday at 05:37 PM by Mike Goetzke »

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Online Solly

  • Posts: 6
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #91 on: Yesterday at 05:35 PM »
Definitely looks like you have two "old" ones there Mike going by wch's post above in this thread.

I was just about to order as the Mark II's have just come back into stock today, but if you just received those, then I will be asking for them to be checked before they go out!
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 05:51 PM by Solly »

Offline box185

  • Posts: 57
Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #92 on: Today at 01:48 PM »
Reading through this thread from top to bottom, there appears to be some conflicting information on what created the problem and how many pieces may have the problem.

I have one stick that’s as good as I can measure. The other five pieces each have the alternating error pattern to different extents. That’s twenty minus five, or fifteen for everyone else.

It does seem odd to me that the expensive tools at Axminster do not detect a problem the can be measured with inexpensive dial calipers. Still more curious is the root cause.

A great tool, but plagued with a problem.

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #93 on: Today at 01:54 PM »
Reading through this thread from top to bottom, there appears to be some conflicting information on what created the problem and how many pieces may have the problem.

I have one stick that’s as good as I can measure. The other five pieces each have the alternating error pattern to different extents. That’s twenty minus five, or fifteen for everyone else.

It does seem odd to me that the expensive tools at Axminster do not detect a problem the can be measured with inexpensive dial calipers. Still more curious is the root cause.

A great tool, but plagued with a problem.

If you haven't already, I would suggest that you reach out to Axminster.  They are a class act from what I have read and I can't imagine that they wouldn't want to make things right.

Peter

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Parf Guide mark 2 issues and questions
« Reply #94 on: Today at 03:10 PM »
TSO's customers have only reported an occasional missing small part with the MARK 2. We solved that by stocking small parts - just in case.
No other Mark 2 problems.
For TSO customers: we have your back and AXMINSTER supports us very well.

Hans and Eric
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE  plus TPG Parallel Guide -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions plus AXMINSTER UJK in the USA