Author Topic: Parf Guide System Review  (Read 12859 times)

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Offline DiscoStu

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Re: Parf Guide System Review
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2017, 03:53 AM »
Love it, much tidier than mine. I've been waiting to visit Halfords to get some metallic orange so very much on the same page.


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Online Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide System Review
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2017, 06:18 AM »
@Z48LT1
As requested - photo of underside

The only question for @squarecut is...

Does the dust extraction work well enough as it is split between both holes at the same time - so, presumably, that is half the suck ?

Peter

Offline DiscoStu

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Re: Parf Guide System Review
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2017, 04:15 PM »
I guess there is always a solution to that in the form of a thing called a parf dog! :-)


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Offline squarecut

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Re: Parf Guide System Review
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2017, 05:09 PM »
@Peter Parfitt
Your observation about possible 50% loss of suction via the second chamber orifices being open led me to perform a test both ways.
With both chambers open there was a slight loss of suction, however drill shavings were completely removed from the work surface.
With the unused chamber sealed off with tape a stronger pull of air could be felt at the infeed air opening. Obviously, this was not a scientific test with instrumentation. To err on the safe side & eliminate the possibility of unremoved debris fouling the 20 mm boring bit, I decided to augment my DES (Dust Extraction Shoe) with a 90 degree closure segment affixed with rare earth magnets.
Many thanks for your alerting me to the possibility of reduced suction. With your single chamber device, it precluded the loss of suction issue. You obviously had that in mind when designing your unit. See attached photos.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 12:07 AM by squarecut »
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Online Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide System Review
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2017, 12:20 AM »
@Peter Parfitt
Your observation about possible 50% loss of suction via the second chamber orifices being open led me to perform a test both ways.
With both chambers open there was a slight loss of suction, however drill shavings were completely removed from the work surface.
With the unused chamber sealed off with tape a stronger pull of air could be felt at the infeed air opening. Obviously, this was not a scientific test with instrumentation. To err on the safe side & eliminate the possibility of unremoved debris fouling the 20 mm boring bit, I decided to augment my DES (Dust Extraction Shoe) with a 90 degree closure segment affixed with rare earth magnets.
Many thanks for your alerting me to the possibility of reduced suction. With your single chamber device, it precluded the loss of suction issue. You obviously had that in mind when designing your unit. See attached photos.

Well done.

If you look carefully at the start of my video for the dust port you will see a clear piece of Perspex which I bent to almost exactly the shape of the top of your dust port. It was part of one of my early efforts and was going to be mentioned but it had to be removed to cut the length of the video down. That design had two places for the hose to be connected and would have had a central divider inside so that the whole of the vacuum was applied to the particular port needed.

I had to do a double bend in the Perspex in order to get the height to allow the sloping face to be long enough to have the 35 mm holes in it for the hose end. I decided it was too difficult for people to make as it needed a hot air gun and some forming tools.

I like your finished design.

Peter

Offline squarecut

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Re: Parf Guide System Review
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2017, 06:19 PM »
I am presently working on a portable dual track cutting station & a 3 section clamping/assembly table which when completed will have me drilling a total of over 275 20mm holes. I have completed the dual track station & currently working on the assembly table. My constant companion Arthur-Itus is rearing his ugly head when I hold the 3mm guide bushing with two fingers while drilling holes. So I came up with a bushing holder to overcome the issue. It occurred to me that others out in FOG land may be experiencing the same problem so here are a few photos.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 07:40 PM by squarecut »
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Online Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide System Review
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2017, 01:39 AM »
Arthur visits me most days as well !

I really like that idea. May I use a picture of it in a video at some time please? If so, please PM me your email address and what name I can use for you.

Cheers.

Peter

Offline squarecut

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Re: Parf Guide System Review
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2017, 08:20 PM »
While working on my portable cutting station I realized that I wanted to add a 20mm hole to a row but had neglected to drill the requisite 3mm hole in that end column. Annoyed that I had not heeded the advice of @Peter Parfitt regarding carefully mapping out the 3mm hole pattern to allow for future additional 20mm holes, I set about figuring out a way to achieve the extra 20mm hole.

I came up with what I have named the "Oops Stick". I made it out of a 2mm thick piece of hard maple, 34mm wide by 635mm in length. Using a Parf stick I drilled seven 3mm holes & then with the guide block, enlarged four holes to 20mm and now I am able to add additional 3mm holes to any row of 20mm holes that I neglected to plan out properly. A proper "Oops Stick" should be made of steel for endurance as this one made of maple will have a relatively short life.

This might prove to be a valid accessory to the Parf Guide System that Axminster might consider. It would not require any engraved measurement scales on it and quite possibly would be a welcome addition to users of the PGS as I am positive I am not the only PGS user who has said "Oops" when producing their creation.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 08:25 PM by squarecut »
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Offline live4ever

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Re: Parf Guide System Review
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2017, 10:02 PM »
Very clever and I'm sure many of us will benefit from this idea!  Failing to plan ahead sounds right up my alley.

On another note, might I suggest renaming the "Oops Stick" to "Barf Stick?"  (Sorry Peter, we're not known for our clever wit this side of the pond...mainly crude low-hanging fruit is our style).   [embarassed]
"What you have to do tomorrow, do today.  What you have to do today, do now."  - a wise grandfather who was clearly talking about purchasing Festools

Offline HarveyWildes

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Re: Parf Guide System Review
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2017, 10:44 PM »
While working on my portable cutting station I realized that I wanted to add a 20mm hole to a row but had neglected to drill the requisite 3mm hole in that end column. Annoyed that I had not heeded the advice of @Peter Parfitt regarding carefully mapping out the 3mm hole pattern to allow for future additional 20mm holes, I set about figuring out a way to achieve the extra 20mm hole.

I came up with what I have named the "Oops Stick". I made it out of a 2mm thick piece of hard maple, 34mm wide by 635mm in length. Using a Parf stick I drilled seven 3mm holes & then with the guide block, enlarged four holes to 20mm and now I am able to add additional 3mm holes to any row of 20mm holes that I neglected to plan out properly. A proper "Oops Stick" should be made of steel for endurance as this one made of maple will have a relatively short life.

This might prove to be a valid accessory to the Parf Guide System that Axminster might consider. It would not require any engraved measurement scales on it and quite possibly would be a welcome addition to users of the PGS as I am positive I am not the only PGS user who has said "Oops" when producing their creation.

@Peter Parfitt, is the 3mm bushing exactly 20mm on the small diameter end?  If so, you could just drill all 7 holes a 20mm and put in the 3mm bushing.  That way there would be no 3mm holes to wear out.

Online Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide System Review
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2017, 11:16 PM »
@squarecut

Nice idea - my only worry about all additional bits of kit or accessories is whether the accuracy be maintained. I will do some math on it.

@HarveyWildes

Yes, the 3 mm Guide should fit snugly in a 20 mm hole or a 25 mm hole depending on the way around. It has any uses, some of which we have not discovered yet !

Peter

Offline Rob-GB

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Re: Parf Guide System Review
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2017, 10:29 AM »
What a great thread. [thumbs up] Loads of ideas being bounced around which is great for me as I just picked up the jig and some dogs from my (almost) local Axminster store.  [big grin]
First job is to replace my warped MFT top, it got damp while on a job and no one knows how (odd that one) so a moisture resistant top is on the agenda with some sort of sealer coat.

Rob.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

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Online Peter Parfitt

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Re: Parf Guide System Review
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2017, 11:25 AM »
What a great thread. [thumbs up] Loads of ideas being bounced around which is great for me as I just picked up the jig and some dogs from my (almost) local Axminster store.  [big grin]
First job is to replace my warped MFT top, it got damp while on a job and no one knows how (odd that one) so a moisture resistant top is on the agenda with some sort of sealer coat.

Rob.

Hi Rob

A quick tip - put the sealer on before you start drilling the holes as the addition of sealer can make the material expand slightly in the holes. You can use almost anything to seal the MDF - water based varnish is good, polyurethane or even Osmo.

Good luck.

Peter

Offline Rob-GB

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Re: Parf Guide System Review
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2017, 12:01 PM »
A quick tip - put the sealer on before you start drilling the holes as the addition of sealer can make the material expand slightly in the holes. You can use almost anything to seal the MDF - water based varnish is good, polyurethane or even Osmo.

Good luck.

Peter

Thanks Peter, I have a ready source for Osmo worktop oil (having just fitted a kitchen for a friend who has a whole tin spare  [big grin] and the advice on coating pre-drilling is well worth mentioning...I was thinking along the same lines but wondered how much it might affect MRMDF (the Medite brand is my preferred choice, most of the others I have experienced are made to a price not a standard).

Rob.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

"A $2 guppy swims......" Deke

Offline bnaboatbuilder

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Re: Parf Guide System Review
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2017, 12:10 PM »
I use boiled linseed oil on my MFT style top and other MDF table work tops. It's not expensive, leaves a smooth finish, easy to re-apply over the years without getting a thick film and doesn't swell the holes like a water based product would.
- John

Offline MacMitch

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Re: Parf Guide System Review
« Reply #45 on: April 17, 2017, 02:34 PM »
1)Peter has a YoutTube video which I interpret to mean, one can drill a 20mm approximately 1” deep hole with the stock bit that comes with the Parf Guide System. The resulting 1” deep hole may then be used, as a guide, to “carefully” drill deeper holes in thicker workbenches. I have plans to make a 3” thick workbench top from German Beech. I am wondering if the described system is a reasonable approach to drilling 20mm dog holes in that thick a hardwood bench?

2)Lee Valley sells a 20mm bit that is 6” long, "with 3 5/8” of fluting”. The bit is designed to be used with a 20mm Dog Hole Bushing LV sells. This is about the only 20mm bit I am finding on line that I believe will drill a 3” deep, 20mm dog hole. According to the LV description the bit will only drill through 2” thick tops in conjunction with the bushing, which is typically installed in 1.5x ? lumber. I guess if I use it in the 1” deep 20mm hole made by the Parf bit, without the Bushing Guide, it might work? I know it want work in the Parf bushing. My favorite large bits turn out to be metric although they are marked in inches, made by Wood Owl (Ultra Smooth Tri Cuts). However, Wood Owl apparently makes 19 and 21mm bits, 7.5” long but not a 20mm. I am wondering if the LV bit, or some other bit I have yet to discover, will drill through the additional space below the 1” 20mm hole the Parf system makes?

3)Peter uses Medite Smartply, a moisture resistant MDF, to make his table tops. I have a height adjustable table/workbench I am working on that I may use a similar material on. My search for Medite Smartply seems to suggest that this product is only offered in European countries. I was impressed with the fact that drilling this material in Peter’s videos was producing actual shavings vs dust that got airborne. I am wondering if there is a similar product people use here in the US use to achieve similar results?

4)I already  own Veritas: Surface Clamp, Hold Down, Bench Anchors, Planing Stops, Bench Dogs, Wonder Dog. I also own a Festool table, Festool saws, Festool clamps...Will the LV items work in the slightly larger 20mm holes or do I need to drill holes for both size dogs?

Offline squarecut

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Re: Parf Guide System Review
« Reply #46 on: April 17, 2017, 04:12 PM »
@MacMitch
I am currently using Medex with my PGS projects, it produces actual shavings when drilling holes with the PGS boring bit. It is also moisture resistant.
Here is a link to my local suppliers info page - http://www.roberts-plywood.com/mdf-nauf-fsc-certified.html
Largest private sawdust producer in Huntington NY

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Parf Guide System Review
« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2017, 05:09 PM »
Hi Everyone

it is really important to use a dust extractor when drilling the 20 mm holes as cutting MDF (especially poorer grades) produces a lot of waste that clogs the cutter leading to an inaccurate cut, overheating and potential damage to the cutter.

I appreciate that some users have produced their own Extractor Port accessories to make it easier to use. I have been playing with several designs over the last few weeks and have now settled on what I think is the easiest to make yet most practical to use. Here is a picture of the finished prototype:

(Attachment Link)

The gadget can be attached in either 20 mm drilling position and it has a hose opening on both sides so it will suit both right and left handed users. It fits snugly on the 20 mm Guide Block and helps the user keep the Guide Block pushed flat on the bench top.

I am in the process of a making the video which I expect to be able to release within the next 5 days. The plans will be available once the video is live. It would take the average woodworker about an hour to make with an additional allowance for gluing time. It consists of 5 pieces of wood all of which require some form of 30 degree cut. Tools required are a 22 mm Forstner (but larger would do), a 35 mm Forstner (for a Festool 27 mm hose fit) and a screwdriver.

Peter

Whoa, hold the phone, you expect me to use a hand tool like a screwdriver
when I could use a nice Festool drill to drive those screws?  [big grin]

Seriously, I love your chip collector and think it's great. Hope to see the video soon.
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Offline MacMitch

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Re: Parf Guide System Review
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2017, 10:49 AM »
Thanks for the information squarecut. Trying to locate one near me from the link you provided.