Author Topic: QQ about Parf guide holes + Veritas and TSO dogs  (Read 2013 times)

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Offline kitui

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QQ about Parf guide holes + Veritas and TSO dogs
« on: January 24, 2018, 08:00 PM »
Hello, I purchased the PARF guide with 2 sets of small veritas bench dogs and the TSO tall bench dogs with the clips for the festool guide. I made a hole to see if the new corded drill could handle the process. I tested the hole and I noticed that the Veritas bench dogs snuggle perfectly but the TSO are quite loose. I was not expecting this outcome. Is it normal? Is it important? Probably not if all the holes are drill equally and equally distant and perfectly perpendicular. Please advise. Thanks

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Offline TSO Products

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Re: QQ about Parf guide holes + Veritas and TSO dogs
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2018, 10:32 AM »
All:
when using the ParfGuide SYstem we now recommend using our new CT-Dogs. These Close Tolerance Dogs as the name implies are made to extremely close tolerances with a slightly larger diameter specifically for use with the ParfGuideSystem.

Our general purpose Dogs in our workholding line up are intended to be secured with Knobs from below to ensure their square alignment. They are intentionally made with more clearance to allow for the wider tolerances to which homemade worktops and the MFT tops are made. Close tolerances come at a price: namely its easier to encounter interference when all elements involved, especially worktops, are not machined to matching dimensions and equally tight tolerances.

More information and a no-cost exchange program for replacing the TSO  general purpose Dogs will be in a TSO INSIDER newsletter shortly. We already have the Small and Tall CT-Dog in stock. They will be on our website within a week.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline RustE

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Re: QQ about Parf guide holes + Veritas and TSO dogs
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2018, 11:08 AM »
Hans:

Are your CT dogs an improvement over the Veritas Parf Dogs?  Such that the resultant hole pattern is more accurate?

Offline TSO Products

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Re: QQ about Parf guide holes + Veritas and TSO dogs
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2018, 02:23 PM »
Hans:

Are your CT dogs an improvement over the Veritas Parf Dogs?  Such that the resultant hole pattern is more accurate?

we can't comment on Veritas Parf Dog tolerances.
We do know that our CT-Dogs will be an extremely good match for the Parf Guide System - money back guaranteed by TSO [smile]
Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline kitui

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Re: QQ about Parf guide holes + Veritas and TSO dogs
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2018, 10:42 PM »
TSO-Hans
I bought the Parf guide from Lee valley ( I do not think TSO had the guide at that time)  but the TSO long dogs and the clips from Bob Marino. Does TSO SWAP also the long dogs I bought from Marino? I followed another post that suggested long dogs with clips after drilling holes with the PARF guide. They were all defined as 20mm. :(

Offline TSO Products

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Re: QQ about Parf guide holes + Veritas and TSO dogs
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2018, 04:15 PM »
TSO is moving to produce the first batch of Stubby Dogs as soon as we can. Meanwhile, we will give some thought on how to make these available for customers who purchased the Tall Dogs from us and prefer the Stubby version instead.

Hans and Eric
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: QQ about Parf guide holes + Veritas and TSO dogs
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2018, 06:42 PM »
Hans, FWIW I tested the non-CT dogs I recently received from you in parf guide drilled holes today and they fit perfectly. If they were any bigger I would have had to hammer them in.

My PG was purchased about a year ago from Axmister and has the old-style 20mm bit. Not sure if the new bits are slightly larger or ???

RMW

All:
when using the ParfGuide SYstem we now recommend using our new CT-Dogs. These Close Tolerance Dogs as the name implies are made to extremely close tolerances with a slightly larger diameter specifically for use with the ParfGuideSystem.

Our general purpose Dogs in our workholding line up are intended to be secured with Knobs from below to ensure their square alignment. They are intentionally made with more clearance to allow for the wider tolerances to which homemade worktops and the MFT tops are made. Close tolerances come at a price: namely its easier to encounter interference when all elements involved, especially worktops, are not machined to matching dimensions and equally tight tolerances.

More information and a no-cost exchange program for replacing the TSO  general purpose Dogs will be in a TSO INSIDER newsletter shortly. We already have the Small and Tall CT-Dog in stock. They will be on our website within a week.

Hans
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline TSO Products

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Re: QQ about Parf guide holes + Veritas and TSO dogs
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2018, 08:33 PM »
@Richard/RMW
your comment about TSO's standard Dogs fitting just fine with your top made some time ago with a ParfGuide Drill Bit is appreciated. You confirm our recent experience that there is a place for both Dog body diameters (as we try to explain on our website www.tsoproducts..com  and also mentioned in our latest TSO INSIDER newsltter.

By the way: we made a naming change on our Close Fitting Dogs to CF-Dog from  the CT- moniker we had planned earlier. It dawned on us that all our Dogs are made to close tolerances (duuuuh...) but the are made to different fits. So don't retire your TSO or other standard 19.9mm body diameter dogs. You will continue to find them appropriate for many tasks in the future - especially with knobs like our SpeedKnobs.

A couple of things we have learned to appreciate:
our Tall CF-Dogs work QUITE well when A "handle" is useful to pull them out of close fitting holes and especially when using them with the Parf Guide drill fixture.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline RustE

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Re: QQ about Parf guide holes + Veritas and TSO dogs
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2018, 11:14 PM »
Hans:  Are your close-fit dogs marked to differentiate them from standard fit dogs?

Offline TSO Products

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Re: QQ about Parf guide holes + Veritas and TSO dogs
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2018, 11:21 PM »
from TSO's website product page on the CF-Dogs:
So Exactly What's Different Here?
DoubleGroove CF-Dogs are distinguished by their slightly larger body diameter, 0.003" (0.08 mm) to be exact. While this change may seem minute, it makes all the difference in eliminating any unwanted play that may be present when a standard 20mm dog is inserted into a precision cut 20mm hole. A CF-Dog can be easily identified by the addition of a single annular groove in its top surface.

thanks for asking
Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline RustE

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Re: QQ about Parf guide holes + Veritas and TSO dogs
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2018, 11:25 PM »
Hans:  I meant marked for easy identification.  I don’t always have a micrometer handy.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: QQ about Parf guide holes + Veritas and TSO dogs
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2018, 11:29 PM »
@RustE  -
I was unable to underscore the copied and pasted text from our website - last sentence above:
 A CF-Dog can be easily identified by the addition of a single annular groove in its top surface.

sorry about that

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline RustE

  • Posts: 198
Re: QQ about Parf guide holes + Veritas and TSO dogs
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2018, 11:35 PM »
Hans:  My apologies. I read your last post too quickly. Thanks for the clarification.