Author Topic: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers  (Read 15097 times)

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Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 52
Introducing Ryan’s SYS-Stacker Inserts: Router Bit Storage
No Longer Accepting Pre-Orders -- See Order Instructions at Bottom of Post

Updates:
  • 01-20-2017: Received approval from Festool/FOG to use their likeness - TylerC is even in for a pre-order!
  • 01-21-2017: Updated this post with pre-order cutoff date, and more clarity on pricing (shipped CONUS)
  • 01-25-2017: New production update posted at bottom of thread
  • 01-27-2017: Added note about new 8mm euro shank option in the FAQ section
  • 02-03-2017: Sent out Paypal invoices to all who pre-ordered; if you didn't receive an email, it's either because (a) I don't have your email or (b) it's stuck in your spam filter
  • 02-09-2017: Making a small design change, increasing the thickness of each deck by 5mm (to 30mm) to increase the recess of each hole and provide more stability for your router bits - this change won't impact bit headroom or cost
  • 03-13-2017: Prototyping is complete, but design changes and new tooling will push out the delivery ETA (see full post)
I’m happy to report that I’ve refined my original router bit insert design, and am now going to produce these inserts in volume for fellow interested FOGgers! If you’ve got a spare Systainer and a respectable collection of router bits, I’m willing to bet you’re going to want one… or more! Without further ado:



So, what makes these inserts so cool?
  • Mix and match to fit your specific T-LOC Systainer, from SYS1 to SYS5: two deck configurations, and three different “riser kits.” (For optimal configurations to fit your Systainer, see bottom of post.)
  • A dual-shank hole design means you can insert your 1/2" and 1/4" router bits into the same hole! (Option available for 8mm bits as well -- see FAQ below for details.)
  • Each deck is stackable, making it easy to quickly access your bits, no matter how far down you put them.
  • Each deck is made from 25mm thick Baltic birch plywood, coated with a top layer of finish color-matched to Festool’s official RAL 6018 yellow/green.
  • Incredible capacity: closed decks hold more than 200 bits, and open decks hold over 170 bits--limited only by the cutting diameter of your bits.
  • Cut with CNC precision, so every piece fits perfectly.
  • Ships flat-packed (to save on shipping costs), with easier-than-IKEA assembly and screws included.
  • Have I mentioned the FOG logo on the handle? :-)


Let's discuss the decks: open or closed?



A closed deck is best for maximizing the router bit capacity, is ideal for smaller Systainers (SYS 1 and SYS2), and also works well as a lower or bottom deck on larger Systainers (SYS3 and up). The open deck serves as a perfect top-level for larger Systainers, and with this open design, you can store particularly tall bits in this area without having to worry about headroom.



What kit is best for my particular Systainer? See below for my recommended kit, guaranteed to fit. (Note that I have not tested fitment on Systainer Classics; just the T-LOCs.) I've also added the total price (shipped CONUS) here, for maximum clarity.

SYS 1 T-LOC Systainer – Recommended Configuration – $32 Shipped CONUS

Closed deck, small handle, plugs instead of risers. This configuration will accommodate router bits ranging from 70 to 80 mm in total length.

SYS 2 T-LOC Systainer – Recommended Configuration – $32 Shipped CONUS

Closed deck, large handle, plugs instead of risers. This configuration will accommodate router bits ranging from 120 to 130 mm in total length. If you’ve got a router bit longer than that, I’d love to see it.

SYS 3 T-LOC Systainer – Recommended Configuration – $61 Shipped CONUS

The preferred Systainer for this insert. One closed deck with medium handle and risers, one open deck with small handle and plugs instead of risers. This configuration will accommodate router bits ranging from 68 to 96 mm in total length, and the “open area” will accommodate bits larger than that.

SYS 4 T-LOC Systainer – Recommended Configuration – $90 Shipped CONUS

Two closed decks with medium handle and risers, one open deck with small handle and plugs instead of risers. This configuration will accommodate router bits up to 96 mm long under the covered portions, and any bits longer than that can be stored in the open area.

SYS 5 T-LOC Systainer – Recommended Configuration – $119 Shipped CONUS

Three closed decks, with small, medium, and large handles and risers. One open deck, with small handle and plugs instead of risers. This will fit any router bit you can dream up. Lots of ‘em.



Price?
I’ve tried to make it as simple as possible: $25 per deck (open or closed), with no additional cost for the handles, risers or plugs. Add $7 for shipping in CONUS (please add $4 to ship each additional deck). Clearly, this isn’t a money-making endeavor--just having some fun and covering material costs. Baltic birch (in 25mm thickness) is not cheap, nor is the General Finishes Pigmented Poly I'll likely be using for the topcoat. Only top quality for you, my friend.

How to Order!
It's passed the pre-order date, so I'm not taking any orders at the moment. Focused on production right now. I will be making a few spares of each size, so do PM me if you're interested in ordering after production ends. I'll keep a log and fulfill these orders on a first-come-first-serve basis.

When will you be producing these beauties?
My current plan is mid-March. I'll be accepting pre-orders up until February 24.

I'm interested, but need shipping outside the continental United States. Can you still do that?
Sure, just note that shipping will be more expensive. Shoot me your address and I'll get a quote back to you. (Note that I'm just a dude, not a huge corporation, so I don't have great negotiated shipping rates. I'm just going to be passing my shipping charge on to you.)

Can you provide a variant with 8mm and 12mm holes?
Yes: Send me a PM and note that you would like the 8mm euro option, and if you're ordering a multi-deck insert, be sure to specify to which deck it applies. Note that the only design change here is boring out the 1/4" holes to accommodate your 8mm bits; if you have 12mm bits, that's close enough to half-inch that no design change is necessary.

Will you be making more decks like this?
I'll consider it, if the interest is there and the need is universal enough. Send me your ideas!



Special thanks to epicxt for motivating me to finish this one...
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 01:50 AM by ryanjg117 »
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Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Albiski

  • Posts: 1
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2017, 01:43 AM »
Let me know when you're ready.

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Offline epicxt

  • Posts: 402
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2017, 01:47 AM »
You know I'm in! Set aside an appropriate systainer as well! These look great!![emoji106][emoji2]
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Offline lawhoo

  • Posts: 168
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2017, 02:03 AM »
Very impressive. I'm in for a Sys 3 or 4 set.

Offline davlen

  • Posts: 2
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2017, 02:29 AM »
Hi,

Great design!
Two questions:
1) Shipping to France will be possible ?
2) Can you made these inserts for european 8 and 12mm shank ?

David.

Offline Alan m

  • Posts: 3290
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2017, 06:22 AM »
pritty sweet.
not sure i would need that many bits on site  but im all for organisation.

would some kind of plastic like hdpe be better than ply. im thinking about moisture rusting the shanks. is making the holes tight
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline Jamie_MA

  • Posts: 47
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2017, 09:01 AM »
Great Job  [thumbs up] [thumbs up] [thumbs up]


Good luck with the Pat Pen!!!!

Offline promark747

  • Posts: 397
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2017, 09:34 AM »
Put me down for a Sys 3 configuration, thanks!

Offline Stoli

  • Posts: 345
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2017, 09:49 AM »
Can't tell if you're serious about the patent pending on the dual hole idea, but @Rick Christopherson has you beat on the prior art in this thread:  http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/router-bit-storage-cabinet/msg339189/#msg339189
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 09:58 AM by Stoli »
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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2017, 10:00 AM »
I don't know how long this thread will last here (it could be considered a competing project and using this forum for advertisement and sales might be an issue (not to be decided by me) but additionally I would offer caution on using the FOG logo on your products for sale without the prior permission of Festool USA. 

Peter
Scraps to Smiles.  To be continued.....  Stay Tuned.

Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2017, 10:09 AM »
Nice idea for portable bit storage. 

Can't tell if you're serious about the patent pending on the dual hole idea, but @Rick Christopherson has you beat on the prior art in this thread:  http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/router-bit-storage-cabinet/msg339189/#msg339189

Yup. Built the first one probably around 20 years ago after noting the limitations of the one I built before that for my father's shop before he/we began hording more router bits. Proposed it to the Woodworker's Journal over 15 years ago, and finally made the final iteration when I did the FOG writeup.

Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 52
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2017, 10:15 AM »
Can't tell if you're serious about the patent pending on the dual hole idea, but @Rick Christopherson has you beat on the prior art in this thread:  http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/router-bit-storage-cabinet/msg339189/#msg339189

Not serious about the "patent pending lingo." I'll update the post to eliminate confusion.
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Offline Goneshootin88

  • Posts: 23
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2017, 10:47 AM »
I'm in for a sys2 setup. Can you ship to Hawaii?


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Offline tmccowan

  • Posts: 16
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2017, 01:51 PM »
Looks great! I'm interested.

Offline mculik5

  • Posts: 52
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2017, 10:02 PM »
Very cool!

Please send me the PayPal details. Interested in the SYS2 option.

Also, separate questions:

1. Where do you get 25mm plywood? Or do you make it yourself from thinner sheets?
2. What kind of CNC machine do you use?

Thanks!

Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 52
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2017, 11:52 PM »
Thanks for all of the comments and PMs. If you've either messaged me or expressed interest in this thread, I have sent you a PM to confirm you're on the pre-order list, and will follow up with additional details as I get closer to CNC time.

Also, Eric Brandt brought up a great question about Systainer Classic compatibility. I'm willing to undertake the design changes necessary to make the inserts backward compatible with Systainer Classics (if it can be done with minimal reengineering), but I don't actually own one. If anyone is local to the Seattle area and has a Classic they can part with for a couple weeks, please let me know.
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Offline epicxt

  • Posts: 402
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2017, 01:22 AM »
Hey Ryan- I've got a classic at the jobsite that I'm just using for storing glue and epoxy. If you want to swing by anytime this week or weekend you can grab it. Text me first. Cheers!
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Offline UncleJoe

  • Posts: 105
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2017, 08:39 AM »
I am interested in a sys 2 or sys 3. I also agree with the use of a synthetic material if possible. I love all the thought and effort that went into this. I did not read all the threads regarding this but wondered if a small tray/well area would be useful to store bearings and hex keys and other little things we end up needing with our routers and bits.
I am not young enough to know everything!

Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 703
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2017, 10:27 AM »
@ryanjg117

I'm in for a Sys 3 setup. What are the chances of you changing some of the 1/4" holes to accommodate 8mm bits? I guess that it wouldn't be too hard for me to drill the holes out for my 8mm bits.

Thanks,

Daniel
Daniel

Offline JSlovic

  • Posts: 83
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2017, 11:59 AM »
Ryan,
I'm in for a sys 3 configuration
Thanks
jack

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 337
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2017, 12:24 PM »
Man thats a lot of router bits to carry around! I cant imagine owning or needing that many! Cool idea though.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 52
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2017, 01:59 PM »
Thanks for all of the interest and pre-orders. I've updated the post with more pre-order details, and also attempted to answer questions received below:

Will these fit Systainer Classics?
I'm looking into that now, and will test fitment after I have the first prototype CNC'ed. Should be some time in February. If I can make minimal modifications for backward compatibility, I will, and I'll update this post when it happens.

Would you be willing to offer these with 8mm or 12mm? (Or some other shank size?)
Sure - the redesign effort is minimal for changing the size of the router bit holes. Send me a PM with your specific design changes, and your home address, and I can get you a shipping quote. (Shipping might kill the deal here, if you're international.)

I wish you could make this in a composite or HDPE, rather than plywood.
I've looked into HDPE or a millable composite like RenShape as an alternative, and unfortunately, it is cost-prohibitive. An HDPE sheet in 25mm thickness, for example, runs over $500, compared to 25mm baltic birch at about $80 per sheet. If you've got an idea for a better material that is available in 25mm thickness and doesn't break the bank, I'm all ears.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 11:53 PM by ryanjg117 »
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Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 52
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2017, 11:50 PM »
01-25-2017 Production Update

I'm happy to report we're up to almost 30 pre-orders -- what a response! This might end up being a little more than a Saturday project after all.  [eek]

I've placed an order for a gallon of General Finishes Enduro Pigmented Poly, color matched to Festool's RAL 6018 yellow/green. It's over $100 a gallon shipped, but sprays well with my Apollo HVLP kit and doesn't require a sanding sealer. I'll post pictures once I get to atomizing!

My friend and professional woodworker, Darrell Peart, has generously offered to let me use his dual-spindle CNC machine for this project. Be sure to check out his website if you're a fan of Greene and Greene.

I'll post more production updates (and pictures) as meaningful progress is made.
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Offline Claimdude

  • Posts: 283
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2017, 08:32 AM »
Ryan,

I will take the single deck SYS 1 recommended configuration you show at the top of this thread at $32 CONUS.

Thanks
Jack Lemley

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3249
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2017, 01:00 PM »
How about one full deck for 1/2", and another split equally between 1/4" and 8mm?  Possible?   [unsure]
- Willy -

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Offline dlyons41

  • Posts: 13
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2017, 07:35 PM »
Ryan, I am interested in a SYS 4.  Let me know what I need to do to make it happen.  Thanks, Doug

Offline Horio

  • Posts: 5
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2017, 11:06 PM »
Ryan,

Would it be possible to do a SYS-3, with the upper open deck configured for 8mm & 1/4 inch (dual shank holes or split half-half as suggested 2 posts up maybe)?  Thanks for offering these sweet inserts to FOG!
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Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 52
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2017, 09:12 PM »
How about one full deck for 1/2", and another split equally between 1/4" and 8mm?  Possible?   [unsure]

Sparktrician, sure. Send me a PM and note your modifications and I'll add you to the pre-order list.
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Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 52
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2017, 09:13 PM »
Would it be possible to do a SYS-3, with the upper open deck configured for 8mm & 1/4 inch (dual shank holes or split half-half as suggested 2 posts up maybe)?  Thanks for offering these sweet inserts to FOG!

Yep - shoot me a PM, note your modifications, and I'll get you on the pre-order list.
My Shaper Origin Referral Link (You & I Save $100):
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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 2775
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2017, 02:17 PM »
How about one full deck for 1/2", and another split equally between 1/4" and 8mm?  Possible?   [unsure]

Would it be possible to do a SYS-3, with the upper open deck configured for 8mm & 1/4 inch (dual shank holes or split half-half as suggested 2 posts up maybe)?  Thanks for offering these sweet inserts to FOG!

Hey Ryan,
Why not consider using/supplying 1/2" to 8mm Delrin or nylon bushings. That way using the same layout you have now would accommodate 1/4", 8mm & 1/2" router bits. It would also allow the end user greater flexibility in the placement or rearrangement of router bits. [smile]

Offline bobandmic

  • Posts: 9
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2017, 09:17 AM »
Not sure if my PM went through, but I would be interested in a closed SYS1 and a closed SYS2.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 52
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2017, 10:24 PM »
Not sure if my PM went through, but I would be interested in a closed SYS1 and a closed SYS2.

Yep, I've got you on the pre-order list. Thanks!
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Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 52
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2017, 12:32 AM »
02-03-2017 Production Update

I've identified the supplier for the 25mm baltic birch panels, and learned they can even special-order panels up to 40mm thick! Those weigh in at 141 lbs. per 5x5' sheet!

At the recommendation of General Finishes, I'm changed the finish to their Milk Paint, tinted RAL 6018, rather than my original plan to use their Pigmented Poly, which they worried could become too thin with this specific color. I've sprayed white milk paint before and it's beautiful, so I have total confidence this is going to look great.

If you're on the pre-order list, you should have received the Paypal invoice via email by now. If you haven't seen an invoice from me (Ryan's Pursuits LLC), it's likely because I don't have your email address. Please PM or email me your email address, and I'll get your invoice out the door.
My Shaper Origin Referral Link (You & I Save $100):
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Offline GadgetGuy

  • Posts: 2
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2017, 03:47 PM »
I could use the SYS3 configuration today, but would like to potentially expand to a SYS4 config in the future.  Given the possibility that this may be a one-time, limited offer, if I order the SYS4 config today, can I reconfigure the purchased components now to use two decks in a SYS3 container and store the 3rd deck for use in a SYS4 later on?

Would I need to order any additional parts?  e.g. - handles, risers, etc.?

Thanks, Mark

Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 52
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2017, 09:52 PM »
I could use the SYS3 configuration today, but would like to potentially expand to a SYS4 config in the future.  Given the possibility that this may be a one-time, limited offer, if I order the SYS4 config today, can I reconfigure the purchased components now to use two decks in a SYS3 container and store the 3rd deck for use in a SYS4 later on?

Would I need to order any additional parts?  e.g. - handles, risers, etc.?

Mark, the only difference between the SYS3 and SYS4 configuration is the addition of a third deck (medium risers and handle). So, absolutely, you can order a SYS4 and simply store the additional deck until you've got the SYS4 systainer. If that sounds good, send me a PM and I'll get you on the pre-order list for a SYS4 Recommended Kit. Thanks!
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Offline bwehman

  • Posts: 4
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2017, 01:35 AM »
Would be kind of neat to have a few of them through drilled to accept Forstener bits, maybe? IDK ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Could Forsteners fit as is?

This is incredibly awesome btw.

Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 52
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2017, 03:14 AM »
Would be kind of neat to have a few of them through drilled to accept Forstener bits, maybe? IDK ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Could Forsteners fit as is?

This is incredibly awesome btw.

Thanks - I believe most forstners have a 3/8" shank so, unfortunately, they won't fit in these holes. Not tightly, at least.
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Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 52
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2017, 03:25 AM »
02-09-2017 Production Update

Had a good meeting at a local CNC/woodworking meetup. Got some great feedback from pro woodworkers and, as a result, will be making one design modification: I'll be increasing the thickness of the platforms by 5mm, using 30mm thick baltic birch plywood rather than 25mm stock. This change is necessary to give the dual-shank shouldered holes more depth, which will make your bits more secure/stable when they're inserted--especially when you're on the move.

This design change won't impact the bit headroom/capacity or cost. There will be a negligible increase in weight (about 1/2 lb per deck).
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Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3388
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2017, 04:39 AM »
How about one full deck for 1/2", and another split equally between 1/4" and 8mm?  Possible?   [unsure]

+1 (Same for me)
I ain't no mathematician but i have some negative and positive screwdrivers
I ain't no pilot but i have some planes.
I ain't no sucker but i have a vacuum.
And I has me some saws, and some sandpapers.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 64
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2017, 06:40 AM »
I'm in, but where do you get those translucent Systainers ? :-)
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Gwerner

  • Posts: 223
  • They call me George...
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2017, 03:34 PM »
I'm in for a SYS1 insert, I sent you a PM with my e-mail for the invoice. Thanks!

Offline Bhend18

  • Posts: 176
    • Hendricks Construction
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2017, 10:39 PM »
I'm going to be ordering one of these kits. They look great. I also wonder if there would be interest in a deck cut for the drawer in a SYS-Combi. I have my routers in these and use the drawers for bits. Perhaps the original deck plan could be cut to fit the drawer?
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Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 52
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2017, 10:55 PM »
I'm going to be ordering one of these kits. They look great. I also wonder if there would be interest in a deck cut for the drawer in a SYS-Combi. I have my routers in these and use the drawers for bits. Perhaps the original deck plan could be cut to fit the drawer?

Shoot me a PM with an image that shows how you're storing your router bits in the SYS-Combi and I'll see if I can dream up any ideas.
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Offline Bhend18

  • Posts: 176
    • Hendricks Construction
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2017, 10:38 PM »
I couldn't figure out how to attach an image to a PM so I'll leave this here. Modified a foam systainer insert to fit the SYS-Combi. I was wondering if one of your closed decks could be modified to fit as well.

Domino DF 500, CT 36 E, Boom Arm Set, CT MIDI, OF 1400, LR 32, FS 2424/2-LR 32, FS 1400/2 LR32, TS 55 REQ, TS 75 EQ, HKC 55 EB, FS 800, FS 1080, FS 1900, FS 3000, FSK 250, FSK 420, Parallel Guide Set, MFT/3, Kapex KS 120, Kapex UG, CXS, PDC 18/4, Drilling Dust Nozzle, CMS-GE, Carvex PS 420 EBQ, Pro 5 LTD,RO 90 DX, RO 150 FEQ, RTS 400 EQ, RS 2 E, LS 130 EQ, RAS 115 E, CT Wings, Vecturo OS 400, SysLite KAL-2

Offline onevw

  • Posts: 44
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2017, 06:47 AM »

Hello

I do not see a place to store the necessary wrenches used to change the bits or a place to store the necessary nuts used to lock the  bits in the router motor spindle.

Rick B
Sys 3 on order with some 8mm holes

Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 52
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2017, 04:12 PM »
I do not see a place to store the necessary wrenches used to change the bits or a place to store the necessary nuts used to lock the  bits in the router motor spindle.

Rick - If you're using the traditional flat router wrench, you should have enough room on the sides or front/back to stow the wrench. I've intentionally designed the inserts to *not* be super tight, since my prototyping has found that it can make the inserts tough to remove, especially on deeper systainers. As for the nuts you reference, do you mean collets? Those should be small enough to fit in the pockets of the open deck at the top of your SYS3 insert assembly. Thanks! Ryan
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Offline oneeyesquare

  • Posts: 29
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2017, 08:28 PM »
PM sent for one SYS3 variant.

My tool budget this quarter has been dominated by systainers!  [eek]

Offline Marc2010

  • Posts: 77
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2017, 01:43 PM »
Hi Ryan<
Im assuming this is done on a CNC. Would you sell the tool path file to me so i can cut my own? No wood- No $$paint -No shipping - Just $$$
Marc
Marc Ker
Mft, TS 55, Of 1400, MFK700 kit, RO125, DTS 400 EQ, RO 125,CT 26,36mm hose,VS 600, FS 2700, FS 1400,Kapex

Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 52
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2017, 11:38 PM »
03-06-2017 Production Update

I've made some good progress in the last couple of weeks. I processed the Baltic birch plywood, sanding it, spraying it Festool green, and cutting it down to size for the CNC process. Later this week, I will run what will (hopefully) be a last prototype on the CNC. My primary goal with this final prototype is to determine the precise hole sizes necessary for the 1/2", 1/4", and 8mm holes; the shouldered holes were a cool idea, but having only half the material depth for each bit means these tolerances need to be fairly tight. Too tight, though, and you'll have a frustrating time trying to get your bits inserted. Hoping to find a happy middle ground there.

I'm still shooting to get all deliveries out by end of month. I'll try to provide at least one more production update before you get the shipping notification.
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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 2775
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2017, 12:10 AM »
Thanks for the update Ryan...I'm pretty impressed with your updates, they're on point and much appreciated.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 64
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #50 on: March 07, 2017, 05:05 AM »
Thanks for the update Ryan...I'm pretty impressed with your updates, they're on point and much appreciated.

ditto. thanks for keeping us informed and thanks for taking this on.

This may turn into a profitable sideline business for you if that's what you want.
-----
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Offline JBag09

  • Posts: 134
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2017, 06:36 AM »
Another thank you for keeping us informed. And I'm sure I'm not speaking for just myself, but looking forward to receiving the insert. Keep up the good work Ryan


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 52
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #52 on: March 14, 2017, 01:49 AM »
2017-03-13 Production Update:
The Painful Reality of Drilling 36,856 Holes




The last week of prototyping has been an enlightening one; I’ve discovered a number of design fixes that need to be made, which I’ve done my best to summarize below.

Change 1: Reducing the number of holes
 
Quite simply put, my original design called for 280 stepped holes to be drilled in the closed decks, and 167 stepped holes in the open decks. For the volume of this project, that’s more than 36,000 holes that would need to be drilled. During prototyping, it didn’t take long to realize that (a) no (affordable) bit in the world has the tool life necessary to perform all (or even a good chunk) of these cuts, which is a tall ask given the bits need to go through 20+ plys of Baltic birch with tough adhesives that kill cutter life, and (b) just the CNC machine time alone would have added up to more than 80 hours – just for the hole drilling portion of the CNC process!
 
So, I’ve tried to address this most challenging part of the project in two ways: first, reducing the number of holes. Simply put, 280 holes in a single deck was overkill, and while it did add slightly to the versatility, the truth is that most of you will be storing bits that have cutters wider in diameter than their shank. By reducing the number of holes and spacing them out more practically, I’ve been able to reduce the hole count by a little more than half. Secondly, there’s simply no router bit that can do these holes, in this volume. Even the most expensive Vortex long-life carbide up-cut end-mills aren’t optimized to drill holes all day. For that process, I need a proper drill bit with a high helical flute angle to evacuate chips without building up too much heat. Fortunately, W.L. Fuller manufactures a stepped drill bit with the exact tolerances necessary to drill these holes. This means I can now reduce the drilling operation to a single process, rather than four individual processes involving three different bits. I’m going to cross my fingers and hope they will have the tool life necessary, but we’ll only know once the production starts in earnest. They can always be sharpened along the way.
 
Here is a depiction of the production version of the SYS3 kit – so you can get a feel for what the reduce hole count will look like:


​Caption 1: Here is how the SYS3 kit will look, with fewer holes. I’ve also removed the periphery, dedicated ¼” holes since those bits can be securely stowed in the stepped holes.


Caption 2: This picture shows what the open deck will look like, with the closed deck beneath it.


Caption 3: Here’s how the closed deck will look.

Change 2: Eliminating narrow material walls

Based on issues with the prototype, I’ve increased the wall thickness along the pockets, and also thickened and brought in the risers. Basically, any walls less than 5mm in thickness have been fattened, since these walls were structurally rigid but tearout did occur on the surface veneer. Increasing the wall thickness fixes this problem.
 
On a related note, there were issues with the “through hole” for the FOG logo as well. Specifically, the material inside the “G” was hanging by a thread. So, I’ll be changing this to a slight, 0.50 mm pocket and will paint this lettering.


Caption 4: Rather than the thru-cut for the FOG logo, this detail will be slightly recessed and painted in Festool green.

Change 3: Improving balance and stack-ability

I’ve added “strong man powerlifting arms” to the risers to serve as a resting spot for the sides of the stacked decks, and will also be rounding over the slots on the underside of the decks, making it easier to “find” the mounts as you’re stacking them back into a Systainer.


​Caption 5: The risers now closely resemble Magnús Ver Magnússon.

Due to these design changes and the fact that I’m waiting on delivery of the stepped drills, the likelihood of this project shipping by the end of March is highly unlikely. This project will now be shipping in April or, worst case, May. I’ll strive to produce them as quickly as I can, and provide regular updates as the project continues. Most likely I will be producing these a few at a time, and will ship them in smaller batches in the order I received your pre-orders.
 
In summary, I’m making a number of changes that will improve the quality and manufacturability of the inserts. However, I also recognize that I’m changing the design midway into the project, after I’ve already accepted your pre-orders. I understand that some of these changes may no longer work for all customers, so I want to provide you an opportunity for a full refund now. Just reply back to this email and let me know if that’s the case – no hard feelings.

I appreciate the trust (and financing) you put into these inserts. Many of you have shelled out close to $100, and I recognize that's nothing to scoff at (even at Festool prices). But I want to make sure what you receive is of Festool quality, even if these rounds of refinement take a little longer than I had initially hoped.
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Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 703
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #53 on: March 14, 2017, 09:45 AM »
Hi Ryan,

Thanks for the update. I actually like the new version with fewer holes, now I do not need to buy as many router bits to fill it up.
Daniel

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2018
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #54 on: March 14, 2017, 10:50 AM »
Thanks for the update, Ryan.  And welcome to prototyping!

I'm on the order list and happy that you are taking your time and doing it right.  The changes look like excellent refinements and well justified.  BTW, your design and renders look amazing.  If only you could render the inserts, email them for installation, and be done!

From my standpoint, take your time and get it right.  If you need an additional fee to cover the unexpected costs, at least let us know.  I would be happy to help so you don't lose your shirt on this community effort.

Please capture some video of these being cut.  CNC is amazing in action...

And be aware that sharpening CNC bits will affect your tolerances!

neil

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 2775
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #55 on: March 14, 2017, 11:21 AM »
I second what @neilc  suggested...take your time and get it right.  [big grin]

I'm probably close to the last on the list if not indeed the LAST on the list, but I'll be happy to wait because I believe the delay will produce a better product. All of the modifications you've described just make sense. Case in point, I have a Systainer with the foam insert for router bits, the Systainer is fully populated with 42 bits, yet there are 104 holes in the foam.

Offline jdv84usn

  • Posts: 1
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #56 on: March 16, 2017, 06:46 AM »
Too late to get in on this?

Offline Rusty Miller

  • Posts: 215
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #57 on: March 17, 2017, 11:09 AM »
Any chance on getting the part # for the stepped drill bit from W.L. Fuller. [big grin]

Thanks,
Rusty
Rusty Miller
I'd rather be woodworking!

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 2775
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #58 on: March 17, 2017, 01:16 PM »
Any chance on getting the part # for the stepped drill bit from W.L. Fuller. [big grin]

Here are a couple of the smaller sized counterbores.

http://wlfuller.com/html/type__r_.html

http://wlfuller.com/html/carbide1.html

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 670
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #59 on: March 17, 2017, 02:05 PM »
Here's a one piece step drill:

http://www.wlfuller.com/html/hss_step_drills.html

SD14F is 1/2 1/4 and a flat step

Difference with these versus the ones that cheese linked is the smaller pilot has a limited depth. 5/16 for the bit mentioned.

Ron

Offline Rusty Miller

  • Posts: 215
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #60 on: March 17, 2017, 05:20 PM »
Thanks @Cheese and @rvieceli for the links.  May have to pick on of those up.
Rusty
Rusty Miller
I'd rather be woodworking!

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 2775
Re: Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers
« Reply #61 on: March 18, 2017, 10:03 AM »
Thanks @Cheese and @rvieceli for the links.  May have to pick on of those up.
Rusty

As Ron noted, on the one-piece step drill, the pilot has a very limited amount of drilling depth (because it is a pilot). The proper way to use this item is to drill the pilot hole to the depth needed and then use the step drill to give the desired amount of counterbore depth while using the original pilot hole diameter to center and guide the step drill. It will always be a 2-step process.

With the carbide counterbores, you have more options for the pilot diameter as well as the pilot diameter drilling depth. Select the counterbore diameter, select the pilot drill diameter then assemble them to attain the pilot drill depth desired and drill. It is a 1-step process.

It just depends upon the product/manufacturing requirements.




Offline tdc

  • Posts: 1
Hi Ryan,

Am wondering what render engine you are using for your renders - they look wonderful.

Cheers,

Tony

2017-03-13 Production Update:
The Painful Reality of Drilling 36,856 Holes