Author Topic: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20  (Read 78619 times)

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Offline Sean KS

  • Posts: 90
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2013, 03:45 AM »
Steve,

Incra miter gauges use the miter slide bar to pivot the fence. This means all pivot action is controlled off of the miter slide bar itself. They are stainless steel so not too fun to machine. Regardless, I cut the bar so that it stopped before the cross cut fence but left all the pivoting mechanisms intact. This allows for a bracket, that holds the gauge to the fence, to be flipped giving enough height to accommodate the 1003. The cross cut fence sits flat on the bench with the bracket in this configuration. The Incra gauge can pivot fully so long it is mounted slightly ahead of the 1003, leaving a small gap to reach a 45 position. That being said, I am going to switch to a 1010 with the 4 t-slots. I don't have the ability to accurately machine the stainless with centered, tapped and counter sunk 1/4-20 holes, but I have a friend who can. Time to call in the friends, and call in amazon for a piece of 1010. Thanks as always Steve!
 
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 03:49 AM by Sean KS »

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Offline Sean KS

  • Posts: 90
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2013, 05:51 AM »
I am playing around with a DIY leadscrew instead of an Incra positioner. Here's the mock up of the design. It uses an 80/20 rail with two linear bearings. One has a bronze bushing bored in, and the other has an aluminum plate that has been bored and tapped. The lead screw is pinned with 2 split nuts buffered with thrust washers. The system works well, just can't decide if the incra positioner would be better for anything? Thoughts?

Offline Sean KS

  • Posts: 90
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2013, 06:58 PM »
Here's why this bench is on a Festool forum. The aluminum to the right of the Guide rail acts as a rip fence or parallel guide. It's connected to the micro adjuster in the trough between the top slabs. Any thoughts on how wide the trough should be? I have room to play because of the 80/20 subframe.

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2141
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2013, 09:02 PM »
I think i'd create some trays, maybe 6 or 8" wide and perhaps 2' long that could drop into the Roubo space and size the space to what feels right for your tools.

Chisels in slots, MFT clamps, dogs, glue bottles, pencils, tape measure, etc are all potential to outfit into a sliding tray.

neil

Offline Dave Lame

  • Posts: 77
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2014, 07:08 PM »
Sean: I admire your creativity and skill. Have a learned a great deal from this and other posts of yours.  Also learning a lot from RMW posts. I am planning 2 MFT rolling cabinets (plywood cabinets supporting MFT with folded legs) and would like to use some of your ideas. Will use Incra LS 25 (ordered last night) with 8020 fence). Will leave rail in one place and move workpiece as needed. Guide rail mounted with standard Festool hardware. Adjoining router table will be 8020 base with JesEm fence, lift, phenolic top, and accessories.

Would like to use Incra miter on MFT rather than Festool protractor but wondering is feasible to modify standard Festool protractor mounting hardware or possibly rout t track in standard MFT top for Incra miter?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Dave

Offline Sean KS

  • Posts: 90
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2014, 04:25 AM »
Thanks Dave, I have lots of time to think about this project and very little to execute it. It's a dangerous combination and I've ended up with this thing.

I've looked at the festool protractor but don't own one. I'm scanning through some pictures and I think that you might be able to use the festool bracket. You would have to check one measurement: the maximum height the incra angle bracket (connects protractor to fence) would allow. I can get that measurement for you if you don't have an incra kicking around the shop. From there you can drill through the festool aluminum extrusion at the same points the incra protractor would normally attach its own miter slider. I can't remember how many drilled and tapped holes this is, but it'd be some rather tight tolerances. I'd say its very doable. It's really just dependent on that one measurement between the festool sliding aluminum extrusion and the table surface.
As far as routing in a miter slot. You have to make sure the bench surface will clear the aluminum side rails by the height of the miter bar. You would also have to laminate support to the bottom of the bench surface. Those incra miter slots are around 1/2" in height, which doesn't leave much meat on the underside. Then you have those locking bars which are okay at best. They work for restriction of movement on a crosscut sled. But I don't know if I'd trust them for positive referencing. Plus they use tiny set screws that would need very frequent replacement under this application stress. I vote for a modified festool bracket if you plan on using mft side rails. Or a custom bracket solution which is really not very hard to pull off. I'm a Colorado boy myself, FOG Coloradans seem pretty regular on the site
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 04:28 AM by Sean KS »

Offline B_Swanson

  • Posts: 45
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2014, 07:35 AM »
The first TS cut on that workbench might bring a tear to my eye.  Nice work.. 

Offline Dave Lame

  • Posts: 77
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2014, 05:41 PM »
Sean,

Studied photos of the your saw and miter brackets again. I think I can copy your design.  Thanks for your help.

Next time I am in Boulder (usually make it there once a year) would be happy to buy you lunch.

Dave

Offline Sean KS

  • Posts: 90
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2014, 03:56 PM »
Dave

I'm building another rail bracket this weekend. I'll take pics of the build process and post them

Offline Michael_Swe

  • Posts: 361
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2014, 11:43 AM »
I really like your build. That bench will serve you well. You will of course have it in your living room. No way you're going to use tools on that table, are you?  [scared]

Offline Sean KS

  • Posts: 90
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2014, 04:59 AM »
How do you say backhanded complement in Sweedish?! Thanks Michael, I have to say your boom arm build showed me that functional tools can look beautiful too. So maybe I should ship my bench to your living room to say thanks. You'll just have to find those festool throw pillows you've been looking for!

Offline Sean KS

  • Posts: 90
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2014, 03:46 AM »
I'm coming close completing the project, I'm tinkering with the rip fence. My original thought was an Incra adjuster in the split. I'm playing with a Woodpeckers' micro adjuster. It's much smaller and easier to removed if needed. I can still go with an Incra solution if the Woodpeckers' fails to fit the bill. The fence reaches all the way to the cutting edge of the guide rail and only stands 1/2" tall. I need to complete an apron attachment bracket to lock the rip fence down really well. I'm waiting on parts from JW Winco.

The other part that I need to finish is the miter gauge. I would like the fence to extend at least to the end rail to attach it. Although I like the Incra Shop Stop, I think that it could be improved if micro adjustment could be accessed directly next to the guide rail. I've contacted a local company Fiero Fluid Power, who are going to help draw up my design to be milled. The gist is using a 10 series 80/20 with a linear bearing that is attached to a lead screw. The lead screw adjustment knob would be on the guide rail side of the miter fence. The linear bearing would move as you turn the lead screw adjustment knob. The bearing itself is able to release from the threads to be macro adjusted then re-engaged for micro adjustment. The bearing would have a hinged stop block on the material handling side of the fence. Ill post the CAD drawings when the come back from Fiero.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 02:57 AM by Sean KS »

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3323
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2014, 08:35 AM »
Sean, that is such a beautiful build.  I think I'd have a heart attack if I laid my TS 55 in the guide track, even if there was no power cord plugged in. 

 [scared]

- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Sean KS

  • Posts: 90
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2014, 04:38 AM »
After not liking my first attempt with the woodpeckers rip fence adjuster I bit the bullet and got another Incra 32" LS Positioner. I much prefer the results.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 05:05 AM by Sean KS »

Offline amt

  • Posts: 357
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2014, 11:25 AM »
This has inspired me to try parts from the Incra miter 5000 on my own home made MFT.  One question I had from your last picture:  Are you able to reach all the way across to make a full cut?  Or can you easily move the saw from the right side to make a cut?

Offline Sean KS

  • Posts: 90
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2014, 07:19 PM »
I step around the right side of the bench and walk with the saw for a full 5' rip cut. Let me also say I am 25 years old and usually just kneel up onto the bench from the stretcher. In a few more years I might do the walk around more often, I placed the kerf strip to accommodate a comfortable reach. Good luck with your project, happy to hear someone is taking their Incra's apart and using the components. Great stuff to be had inside their tools.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2014, 05:02 AM by Sean KS »

Offline kylehalchin

  • Posts: 2
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #46 on: October 16, 2015, 02:11 PM »
I'm coming close completing the project, I'm tinkering with the rip fence. My original thought was an Incra adjuster in the split. I'm playing with a Woodpeckers' micro adjuster. It's much smaller and easier to removed if needed. I can still go with an Incra solution if the Woodpeckers' fails to fit the bill. The fence reaches all the way to the cutting edge of the guide rail and only stands 1/2" tall. I need to complete an apron attachment bracket to lock the rip fence down really well. I'm waiting on parts from JW Winco.

The other part that I need to finish is the miter gauge. I would like the fence to extend at least to the end rail to attach it. Although I like the Incra Shop Stop, I think that it could be improved if micro adjustment could be accessed directly next to the guide rail. I've contacted a local company Fiero Fluid Power, who are going to help draw up my design to be milled. The gist is using a 10 series 80/20 with a linear bearing that is attached to a lead screw. The lead screw adjustment knob would be on the guide rail side of the miter fence. The linear bearing would move as you turn the lead screw adjustment knob. The bearing itself is able to release from the threads to be macro adjusted then re-engaged for micro adjustment. The bearing would have a hinged stop block on the material handling side of the fence. Ill post the CAD drawings when the come back from Fiero.

Sean, where did you find the apron bracket mounting piece and the pieces that clamp the 8020 down?

Offline Sean KS

  • Posts: 90
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #47 on: October 16, 2015, 02:14 PM »
Which part are we talking about? The slide bearing for the rail? That part is a 80/20 linear bearing
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 02:39 PM by Sean KS »

Offline fotojoe

  • Posts: 5
    • Really Right Stuff
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2017, 10:29 AM »
@Sean KS
Sean, what a fine table. I'm going to build a stay-at-shop table and will incorporate much of your thinking. Question: what material did you use for the inlaid kerf guard? Looks like white nylon or Delrin. I assume you fabricated this with the dovetail profile. Where did you buy the raw material? Thanks so much for sharing. Joe
Have: TS 75 EQ, RO 150 FEQ, CXS Set, CT 36E
Want: DF 700 EQ, MFT/3, more Systainers

Offline Sean KS

  • Posts: 90
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2017, 02:03 PM »
fotojoe,

UHMW Sheet

I'm pretty sure I got it at Woodcraft, but you can find the stuff lots of places. Hope that helps, have fun with the build.

Offline fotojoe

  • Posts: 5
    • Really Right Stuff
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2017, 08:14 PM »
@Sean KS
Sean, I've been studying your beautiful bench.  I see you completed the project a few years ago now. If you can spare a moment I hope you could respond to some more questions:
1. Desired Changes: After living with the workbench for a while and hopefully having a chance to use it a fair amount, what would you change, if anything?
2. Dog Holes: I see in the original sketch-up you were planning to put CNC-machined dog holes in both sides but only put them on the side with the wagon vise. Do you find you use the holes much? Are you happy with having the holes on the one side only?
3. Seasonal Expansion/Contraction: Your original plan was to use 3"-thick slabs (looks like maple). I also see that you wrapped the slabs on all sides with an apron and I wonder if seasonal expansion/contraction has caused any issues with the apron joints at the ends of the slabs?
4. Dog Hole Layout: You mentioned that your holes are 3/4" diameter so you could use Qwas dogs. I'm assuming the holes are bored all the way through the slabs. Are they on 4" centers? Do you ever use them to index 45 degree cuts or for calibrating your miter fence? If so, I expect that seasonal movement (see #3) may throw the hole positions very slightly out of square (more movement across the bench vs longitudinally) -- have you noticed anything like that?
Thanks again for sharing. I see that your build is one of the most popular on this site -- a testament to your novel hybrid design. Joe
Have: TS 75 EQ, RO 150 FEQ, CXS Set, CT 36E
Want: DF 700 EQ, MFT/3, more Systainers

Offline Sean KS

  • Posts: 90
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2017, 01:33 AM »
@fotojoe
Sean, I've been studying your beautiful bench.  I see you completed the project a few years ago now. If you can spare a moment I hope you could respond to some more questions:

1. Desired Changes: After living with the workbench for a while and hopefully having a chance to use it a fair amount, what would you change, if anything?


Honestly it does the things I want it to do. I built it very slowly over the course of 2 years. So I gave myself a lot of time to think before I acted. I messed up the mounting of the wagon vise a little bit, it's not as clean of a cut out as I would've liked, but other than that, no complaints.

2. Dog Holes: I see in the original sketch-up you were planning to put CNC-machined dog holes in both sides but only put them on the side with the wagon vise. Do you find you use the holes much? Are you happy with having the holes on the one side only?


I'm really happy with the choice of only putting dog holes on one side. There are plenty of them to do alignment tasks with. And having the other side be free of holes and the wagon vise comes in handy constantly. Like not dropping small parts and hardware, or being able to use the t-tracks on either end cap for a long rail task.

3. Seasonal Expansion/Contraction: Your original plan was to use 3"-thick slabs (looks like maple). I also see that you wrapped the slabs on all sides with an apron and I wonder if seasonal expansion/contraction has caused any issues with the apron joints at the ends of the slabs?

The slab that forms the top is not a solid wood slab. It is made up of rock maple, hardboard, and plywood, in that order. The total thickness of the epoxy laminated slab is 2 3/4". Then the rails wraps that. The rails have loose tenon joinery and the wagon vise end cap has double loose tenons with brass draw bores. The rails are attached to the top with 4" bolts, there are mortises on the underside of the bench every 8" that allow the nut to slide in. The holes for the bolts are bored oversized to allow for movement. I used self locking nuts, that have not come loose due to vibration or mallet blows and the likes. Because of how I built the slab, the main "field" of the top does not expand and contract very much (it's not a machining surface, it needs to be flat enough for woodworking, which varies dramatically from woodworker to woodworker based on their particular tastes and techniques.) The apron joints have held nicely visually, and any little changes have not cause problems with functionality. I'll also add that the bench lives in a climate controlled shop. If it was sitting in a garage or otherwise exposed to huge temperature/humidity changes I would probably see problems.

4. Dog Hole Layout: You mentioned that your holes are 3/4" diameter so you could use Qwas dogs. I'm assuming the holes are bored all the way through the slabs. Are they on 4" centers? Do you ever use them to index 45 degree cuts or for calibrating your miter fence? If so, I expect that seasonal movement (see #3) may throw the hole positions very slightly out of square (more movement across the bench vs longitudinally) -- have you noticed anything like that?

Sizing and spacing on the dogs is correct. I index everything off of them, miter fence, rip fence, router set-ups of all sorts. They are accurate to a degree that it does not change my workflow (as in if it is slightly different season to season, the changes are not enough to notice in my work.) This is the main reason I did not make the top out of solid wood. That being said, I am not in the habit of taking something right from a power tool to assembly. Most everything gets hit with a plane or a chisel before it forms a joint of any kind. That being said, it's accurate enough to cross cut bed rails with just a locating pin on either end of the stock. In that scenario I had no visible light when I checked the cut against a Starrett square. That is square enough for my needs.

Thanks again for sharing. I see that your build is one of the most popular on this site -- a testament to your novel hybrid design. Joe

Hope that helps Joe, Sean

Offline fotojoe

  • Posts: 5
    • Really Right Stuff
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2017, 12:03 PM »
@Sean KS
Sean, thanks again for sharing your experience. Joe
Have: TS 75 EQ, RO 150 FEQ, CXS Set, CT 36E
Want: DF 700 EQ, MFT/3, more Systainers

Offline VW MICK

  • Posts: 843
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2017, 02:40 PM »
Yes I remember this

Really cool

I've still not cut into my MFWB

I probably will soon

Mick

Offline dgruening

  • Posts: 2
Re: Split Top Roubo MFT with Benchcrafted, Incra and 80/20
« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2017, 01:49 PM »
@Sean KS

Is there any chance that you'd publish a video walkthrough of your workbench to further illustrate to us visual learners?

Thanks