Author Topic: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .  (Read 3805 times)

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Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1845
Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« on: January 05, 2019, 05:16 PM »
I'm considering building either a second MFT size table to use in conjunction with my existing MFT or building an MFT-type table about twice the size of an MFT but not sure which at this point. While I have searched for answers to the following questions within the FOG I haven't found them so I'm looking for answers or references on the FOG or other resources:

1. Is there 80/20 hardware or a commbination of 80/20 and Festool hardware available which would allow an interface to connect a Festool MFT with another table constructed from 80/20?

2. Is there a particular type/size or profile of 80/20 that works best for making an MFT type table?

I'm just looking for a starting point to make comparisons in cost between buying another MFT and making an auxiliary table to interface with my existing MFT.
Randy

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Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 661
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2019, 07:48 PM »
Hi Randy!

I’m in the process of building an Alpha version of my own 80/20 portable table.

 I’m planning on having the table surface be separate from the legs. Candidates for legs are the Rockwell Jawstand (2x) and/or a pair of Reechcraft Broncos.

For extrusion, I’m most familiar with the 1530 size, though I’m considering using the 40-series (metric) extrusions, pending confirmation that the Festool clamps work in the t-tracks.

My intention is to carry a pair of DIY tables in lieu of the three MFT/Kapex tables I’m currently carrying.

Approximate size is currently ~21” x 60”, though I may shorten the length pending results from the Alpha tests.
CT-26, CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400 (x2), MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x2), MFT/Kapex (x3), CMS-OF, KA 65 Conturo, Sprinter full of Systainers

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5461
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2019, 08:01 PM »
Hey Tom, I’ve built with both the 1530 & the 40 series. Festool clamps fit both extrusions.

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 661
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2019, 08:33 PM »
Hey Tom, I’ve built with both the 1530 & the 40 series. Festool clamps fit both extrusions.

Thanks Cheese!
CT-26, CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400 (x2), MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x2), MFT/Kapex (x3), CMS-OF, KA 65 Conturo, Sprinter full of Systainers

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5461
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2019, 10:46 AM »
FWIW...here's a shot of my bench downstairs, it's rather small but works well 70% of the time.



However, for some projects, I just plain need more space. Presently I'm refinishing a Simpson full view exterior door so I also need something that's sturdy. My solution was to build a simple 80/20 structure that would attach to the bench easily, yet be easily stowed underneath the bench when it's not in use.



Each leg has a side rail attached but they fold flat. The front rail has connectors attached and that's it. 3 pieces to store that will fit along with the MFT top, under the existing bench.

Maybe this approach will work for others. One table that's portable and then 1 or 2 extra wings that can be added to the table. This results in fewer pieces to haul around and fewer to store.










Offline BarneyD

  • Posts: 64
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2019, 11:17 AM »
Great idea @Cheese and nice execution. Some food for thought surely.

In the bottom pic you have what appears to be HP 11-C on the bench (near the CXS). True? I still have mine and I swear it's still running on the original batteries. What a great calculator.

Cheers,
Barney
Barney

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5461
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2019, 11:32 AM »
Great idea @Cheese and nice execution. Some food for thought surely.

In the bottom pic you have what appears to be HP 11-C on the bench (near the CXS). True? I still have mine and I swear it's still running on the original batteries. What a great calculator.

Cheers,
Barney

Thanks Barney  [smile]  You're right, that is an 11-C. I purchased it when they first came out, how long ago was that?  [eek] Probably over 30 years ago!!  I used it every day for work and over all that time I think I've changed out the batteries 3 or 4 times.

I wonder how many millions of button pushes have been registered over the years.  [thumbs up]  When this one craps out I'll be devastated. [crying] [crying] [crying]

Offline BarneyD

  • Posts: 64
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2019, 01:30 PM »
Cheese, I still have my original manual for the 11-c. It was published in February of 1981. So you might be a little light on the 30 years. And yeah, I'll also be devastated when mine dies. I even bought one of those Swiss Micros 11-C clones as a backup. But it's just not the same. Key presses are too hard compared to HP's. BTW, I still have my original HP35 (perhaps 1973). And it still works. But IMO you just can't beat the 11-C.

Cheers,
Barney
Barney

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1845
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2019, 01:58 PM »
@Cheese From you pictures, it appears that your top is flush with the frame. Since I wish to use the additional table (a whole new table if that's what I do) as a surface to cut on just like the MFT, the top would need to be raised just like the MFT top is. So, questions about your pictures . . .

1. Is there a way to mount a top which is exposed like the MFT top is with that particular hardware?
2. Is that hardware 80/20? (I'm not familiar with their products so just wanted to make sure I was looking in the right place.)
Randy

Offline BarneyD

  • Posts: 64
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2019, 02:54 PM »
Randy,

A while ago I called 8020 and asked them to send me one of their big catalogs, which they happily did. Lots of good ideas in there. But it's a bit overwhelming since it's like 900 pages long. But a valuable resource that you might enjoy.

Good luck,
Barney
Barney

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5461
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2019, 03:25 PM »
@Cheese From you pictures, it appears that your top is flush with the frame. Since I wish to use the additional table (a whole new table if that's what I do) as a surface to cut on just like the MFT, the top would need to be raised just like the MFT top is. So, questions about your pictures . . .

1. Is there a way to mount a top which is exposed like the MFT top is with that particular hardware?
2. Is that hardware 80/20? (I'm not familiar with their products so just wanted to make sure I was looking in the right place.)

In the second photo, look to where the rails come together by the Vac Sys. There's a small triangular connector that attaches to each leg with 2 setscrews. I used 18mm BB for the MFT top and it rests solidly on each of those connectors in each corner. It's about .100"-.120" proud of the 80/20 surface.

However, I wanted the surface of the MFT to be flush with the surface of the wooden workbench so I could slide things around easily between the 2 surfaces. Therefore I routed a small triangular recess .100"-.120" deep in each corner of the MFT so the surface would be level with the 80/20 rail.

If you want more height between the MFT surface and the 80/20 rail (more than .100"-.120"), you could make the MFT top slightly oversize and then rout in a dado around the bottom surface. That way the MFT becomes a "plug" and you can make the height whatever you want.  [smile]

Yes those are 80/20 connectors, for this project everything used was 40 series components.

Like @BarneyD  suggested, call and ask for an 80/20 catalog. It gives you a lot better idea as to what the components are, how they're used and how they fasten to each other. The website is great for people that have worked a lot with the product but if you're new to it, you'll never find what you're looking for.

I've been using this stuff for over 20 years and I still need the 900 page catalog to locate some of the items.


Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5461
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2019, 03:51 PM »
Cheese, I still have my original manual for the 11-c. It was published in February of 1981. So you might be a little light on the 30 years. And yeah, I'll also be devastated when mine dies. I even bought one of those Swiss Micros 11-C clones as a backup. But it's just not the same. Key presses are too hard compared to HP's. BTW, I still have my original HP35 (perhaps 1973). And it still works. But IMO you just can't beat the 11-C.

Barney...my aching back...then that 11-C is 38 years old.  [jawdrop] [jawdrop] 

I always wanted a HP35 but at the time I think they were priced in the $300-$400 region. I couldn't afford that. It was the equivalent of 5-6 months of car payments at the time. My boss purchased one and he was the envy of the office. [not worthy]

Interestingly enough that $300-$400 is the equivalent today of $1700-$2300.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1845
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2019, 04:11 PM »
@Cheese Since you worked with 80/20 for awhile, you might know, is there any way to interface 80/20 hardware with Festool hardware? I know the profiles of the tracks are different and proprietary to each company but just asking if you knew.
Randy

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5461
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2019, 05:03 PM »
Hey Randy, I don’t know the answer to that one because I don’t own a “real” MFT.

Initially I’d say there probably is but that may involve machining the MFT extrusion, the 80/20 extrusion or both.

Offline box185

  • Posts: 52
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2019, 09:43 PM »
I have not purchased this product, but it might be useful for connecting an 80/20 bench design to a Festool MFT/3.

http://www.multiblades.com/mft3.html

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1845
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2019, 01:31 AM »
Hey Randy, I don’t know the answer to that one because I don’t own a “real” MFT.

Initially I’d say there probably is but that may involve machining the MFT extrusion, the 80/20 extrusion or both.
@Cheese The word machining pretty much makes that a bit unrealistic for me. Maybe if it was wood, yeah, but aluminum...don't think so, but I will look into what it takes.
Randy

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1845
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2019, 01:34 AM »
I have not purchased this product, but it might be useful for connecting an 80/20 bench design to a Festool MFT/3.

http://www.multiblades.com/mft3.html
@box185 Seems like this bracket is mainly made for an MFT extension where a sheet is added on rather than another table made from 80/20 but I will keep it in mind. Since I don't know what I will finally do, it might fit into my plans at some point. Thanks.
Randy

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1800
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2019, 08:27 AM »
Some time back I noticed that you can hook the t-slot of 1515 ULS over the edge of the MFT V-extrusion and it sits nicely level right about 1/2" below the MFT top. If your top of the 8020 extension sits 1/2" proud of the 1515 it is then level with the MFT top.



Some yapping about it on this thread.

RMW
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 08:37 AM by Richard/RMW »
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline simonh

  • Posts: 55
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2019, 08:34 AM »
I built an outdoor kitchen from Bosch Rexroth (the same sort of thing as 80/20). It's pretty impressive once you get to grips with the catalogue and possibilities. I used acrylic panels and clean-room seals etc. Fully waterproof cupboards and drawers!

My workshop stuff is all based around the Festool profile for compatibility. I end up looking up things on EKAT and ordering them as spare parts. But it's not as flexible and very expensive. If I had my time again...

Online Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3723
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2019, 09:45 AM »
I built an outdoor kitchen from Bosch Rexroth (the same sort of thing as 80/20). It's pretty impressive once you get to grips with the catalogue and possibilities. I used acrylic panels and clean-room seals etc. Fully waterproof cupboards and drawers!

My workshop stuff is all based around the Festool profile for compatibility. I end up looking up things on EKAT and ordering them as spare parts. But it's not as flexible and very expensive. If I had my time again...

Before I knew about 80/20 (maybe before they started) I used Bosch stuff. The Bosch catalog was way more rationally organized than 80/20 is. Also loved the name of the catalog, “Basic Mechanical Elements”.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5461
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2019, 09:51 AM »
Some time back I noticed that you can hook the t-slot of 1515 ULS over the edge of the MFT V-extrusion and it sits nicely level right about 1/2" below the MFT top. If your top of the 8020 extension sits 1/2" proud of the 1515 it is then level with the MFT top.

Well that's nice to know Richard... [smile]

So...make the 80/20 frame
Hook it over the lip of the MFT
Unfold the legs
Place the 3/4" thick MFT "plug" that has a 1/4" dado on the bottom in the 80/20 frame
It should be good to go...a place to start anyways.  [big grin]

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1800
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2019, 10:50 AM »
Some time back I noticed that you can hook the t-slot of 1515 ULS over the edge of the MFT V-extrusion and it sits nicely level right about 1/2" below the MFT top. If your top of the 8020 extension sits 1/2" proud of the 1515 it is then level with the MFT top.

Well that's nice to know Richard... [smile]

So...make the 80/20 frame
Hook it over the lip of the MFT
Unfold the legs
Place the 3/4" thick MFT "plug" that has a 1/4" dado on the bottom in the 80/20 frame
It should be good to go...a place to start anyways.  [big grin]

@Cheese Bingo! [not worthy] and well stated.

If you wanted to get fancy you can inset the 3/4" top and use some simple clips in the inner t-slot to secure it 1/2" proud of the extrusions.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5461
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2019, 11:21 AM »

@Cheese Bingo! [not worthy] and well stated.

If you wanted to get fancy you can inset the 3/4" top and use some simple clips in the inner t-slot to secure it 1/2" proud of the extrusions.


You can even dispense with the clips by making the top 1/4"-3/8" wider in all directions than the frame and then placing a dado around the periphery on the bottom side so that the top becomes a "plug". That way you can easily adjust the height of the top by the depth of the dado.

The only down side is the top can't be easily flipped over to use the bottom surface unless another dado is created on the top surface.

So thinking about this a little more: [scratch chin]
1. If you use this table for a lot of cutting, insert clips so you can flip the top.
2. If you use this table for assembly/glue-up, dado the bottom.

 [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1845
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2019, 02:18 PM »
Some time back I noticed that you can hook the t-slot of 1515 ULS over the edge of the MFT V-extrusion and it sits nicely level right about 1/2" below the MFT top. If your top of the 8020 extension sits 1/2" proud of the 1515 it is then level with the MFT top.

(Attachment Link)

Some yapping about it on this thread.

RMW

Richard, Did you merely hang the 1515 on the edge of the MFT or secure it in some way? Sorry, but I'm new to 80/20 and really have no idea how to put this thing together. I'm sure I can learn but don't know right now.
Randy

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1800
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2019, 06:55 PM »
Some time back I noticed that you can hook the t-slot of 1515 ULS over the edge of the MFT V-extrusion and it sits nicely level right about 1/2" below the MFT top. If your top of the 8020 extension sits 1/2" proud of the 1515 it is then level with the MFT top.

(Attachment Link)

Some yapping about it on this thread.

RMW

Richard, Did you merely hang the 1515 on the edge of the MFT or secure it in some way? Sorry, but I'm new to 80/20 and really have no idea how to put this thing together. I'm sure I can learn but don't know right now.

Randy, I was just messing around so I only hung it off the MFT. Not long after that discovery I built a full 80/20 MFT/SYS cart and ever since my original MFT has had a lonely existence in the dungeon.

I suspect you'd want to secure it somehow if you are doing any heavy work but if it's just to hold sheet goods while cutting or a similar use I think the weight of the extrusions and ply would keep it as stable as the MFT/3 itself.

80/20 sells a lot of corner brackets that may let you bolt everything together, the 1010 series might line up with the slots.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1845
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2019, 10:20 PM »
Some time back I noticed that you can hook the t-slot of 1515 ULS over the edge of the MFT V-extrusion and it sits nicely level right about 1/2" below the MFT top. If your top of the 8020 extension sits 1/2" proud of the 1515 it is then level with the MFT top.

(Attachment Link)

Some yapping about it on this thread.

RMW

Richard, Did you merely hang the 1515 on the edge of the MFT or secure it in some way? Sorry, but I'm new to 80/20 and really have no idea how to put this thing together. I'm sure I can learn but don't know right now.

Randy, I was just messing around so I only hung it off the MFT. Not long after that discovery I built a full 80/20 MFT/SYS cart and ever since my original MFT has had a lonely existence in the dungeon.

I suspect you'd want to secure it somehow if you are doing any heavy work but if it's just to hold sheet goods while cutting or a similar use I think the weight of the extrusions and ply would keep it as stable as the MFT/3 itself.

80/20 sells a lot of corner brackets that may let you bolt everything together, the 1010 series might line up with the slots.

RMW

Thanks for the info. I'm not really sure what I will do at this point and have been thinking about it so long I sometimes  think I'll never actually do anything (or maybe just take the easy way out and buy another MFT-expensive but easier).
Randy

Offline DustyTools

  • Posts: 52
    • Dusty.Tools
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2019, 12:24 AM »
If you wants some ideas on 80/20, check out my Instagram (dusty.tools) I spent 2018 building 10 carts for my shop :)

Also, I would highly recommend Faztek as a cheaper, high quality alternative.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 316
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2019, 09:17 AM »
If you wants some ideas on 80/20, check out my Instagram (dusty.tools) I spent 2018 building 10 carts for my shop :)

Also, I would highly recommend Faztek as a cheaper, high quality alternative.

Are you still planning on doing an article, etc? I thought I read on your IG a while back you had something in the works.

Offline DustyTools

  • Posts: 52
    • Dusty.Tools
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2019, 06:14 PM »
If you wants some ideas on 80/20, check out my Instagram (dusty.tools) I spent 2018 building 10 carts for my shop :)

Also, I would highly recommend Faztek as a cheaper, high quality alternative.

Are you still planning on doing an article, etc? I thought I read on your IG a while back you had something in the works.

Yes I really should get around to that! ToolGuyD asked me to do one :)

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1845
Re: Starting point for 80/20 design . . .
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2019, 06:43 PM »
Thanks for the input. I must make some decisions about what I really want to accomplish with an extra table and decide on the level of effort I want to put into it. The responses did give me a starting point though.
Randy