Author Topic: Tiny cyclones  (Read 2181 times)

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Offline ElectricFeet

  • Posts: 93
Tiny cyclones
« on: December 06, 2018, 01:54 PM »
I've just bought a CMS/GE / CMS/OF / OF 1010. I have a CTL SYS and will probably need a cyclone.

With extremely limited space (I work occasionally on a balcony/terrace and store stuff in overflowing cupboards), the Festool cyclone is not an option.

So I've been researching small / collapsible cyclone solutions. I found this really cheap yet seemingly comprehensive solution: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Floratek-Interceptor-Cyclonic-Separator-Collector/dp/B074V3RQSC It seems to be the no-name equivalent of a makita product for home vacuums, reviewed by toolguyd here: https://toolguyd.com/makita-cyclonic-vacuum-attachment/

The capacity is tiny, but this may not be a problem for me, as I'm only a hobbyist and can I empty it a few times as I go. If I find it fills up too quickly, I can remove its container and attach a larger bag/bucket. I have hoses and nozzle size-reducers already.

It looks like a really cheap and simple solution, especially as it integrates the container and a particle filter on the inlet tube -- all for for a price that is lower than others that are simple plastic cones with two tubes.

Knowing very little about cyclones, am I missing something?

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Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1579
Re: Tiny cyclones
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2018, 02:21 PM »
As with any cyclone there will be some loss of suction, but worth trying. You'd have to position it with canister downward, which might be cumbersome if it's in-line on the hose somewhere.
If you are so short on space why not simply use a small household canister vacuum with built in cyclone. They are easy to empty. You'll loose anti-static feature though.
P.S. With this add-on you also loose anti-static property of the Festool vacuum, unless you bypass the cyclone with something conductive.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1168
Re: Tiny cyclones
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2018, 05:34 AM »
Forget the two you linked, their capacity isn't up to deal with what a router produces and they would fill up within seconds.

For a cheap solution get https://www.amazon.co.uk/Commander-Professional-Cyclone-Extractor-Separator/dp/B00JR3NQAC and the https://www.amazon.co.uk/30-Litre-airtight-storage-container/dp/B0093C7OB4 drum they offer with it (will work OK unless you block the hose inlet to make it collapse).

The Festool CT-VA-20 pre-separator would do the same trick (and works surprisingly well, given the construction principle) but at a price point that makes it more feasible for cost agnostic hobbyists (who won't feel or don't care about the dent in bank account balance) and professionals (who use it to extract and dispose of huge amounts of controlled substances, like asbestos, in a reasonably clean manner). Given that you have stated that you have space constraints the Festool CT-VA might be interesting to you, as it takes less space than a dust commander+drum.

The CT-SYS longlife bags work OK for me in conjunction with a cyclone (both the Festool and a dust deputy style one), as it saves me from needing a new bag every time I forget to empty my cyclone in time (or the bottom of the cone clogs from too big chips deciding on a sit-in instead of falling into the drum). I turn it inside out and vacuum it (to get rid of the fine dust and the chips that decided to hook to the fabric) with a bursh nozzle every ~4th time I empty it, which boils down to about 3 times a year.

BTW: it's always a good idea to not solely rely on Amazon when buying stuff, shop around in some best price finding sites (possibly also ones outside your country) after you decided on what you want (meaning: don't buy the festool thing from the link I posted, it's completely overpriced there and the link is just ment as information about a product).
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 07:10 AM by Gregor »

Offline ElectricFeet

  • Posts: 93
Re: Tiny cyclones
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2018, 11:57 AM »
Thanks @Gregor  (and @Svar). That's exactly the advice I was looking for.

Forget the two you linked, their capacity isn't up to deal with what a router produces and they would fill up within seconds.

For a cheap solution get https://www.amazon.co.uk/Commander-Professional-Cyclone-Extractor-Separator/dp/B00JR3NQAC and the https://www.amazon.co.uk/30-Litre-airtight-storage-container/dp/B0093C7OB4 drum they offer with it (will work OK unless you block the hose inlet to make it collapse).

I'll more likely be using an existing bucket, as I have no space for a drum. Or should I rephrase that? If I buy a drum, I'll be hard pressed to find space to store any other new Festool kit :-) I already have a square bucket that should be adaptable.

The [Festool CT VA 20] pre-separator would do the same trick ...

Same problem: space.

BTW: it's always a good idea to not solely rely on Amazon when buying stuff, shop around in some best price finding sites (possibly also ones outside your country) after you decided on what you want (meaning: don't buy the festool thing from the link I posted, it's completely overpriced there and the link is just ment as information about a product).

Ha! If you knew how many browser tabs I have open right now, comparing prices and deals from all over Europe ... :-)

Thanks again for your help. I'm new to routing and need all the help I can get. Much appreciated!

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3647
Re: Tiny cyclones
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2018, 12:17 PM »
Shops that have limited floor space often have in un-used space below the ceiling. My old Fein Turbo vac is uspended from an overhead floor joist. A cheap Dust Deputy Cyclone sits on a high shelf nearby.

I don’t keep a trash can sitting around either just small strong plastic shopping bag spring clamped to a shelf out of the way. Big scraps are quickly evicted.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1168
Re: Tiny cyclones
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2018, 01:04 PM »
I already have a square bucket that should be adaptable.
Non-round shape of a collector 'bucket' for a cyclone isn't a good plan, but you'll find that out quickly - as it'll likely collapse, quite spectacular, the first time you close off the end of the hose... I linked the barrel for several reasons: it's cheap and sturdy but somewhat flexible, so it won't implode but just deform - and you can bring it back into the original shape afterwards.

If I may ask as you constantly repeat it: how much space do you have in your 'shop' ?

Quote
Thanks again for your help. I'm new to routing and need all the help I can get. Much appreciated!
You're welcome.

Offline ElectricFeet

  • Posts: 93
Re: Tiny cyclones
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2018, 01:23 PM »
Shops that have limited floor space ...

Ah, but that assumes one has a shop ... :-)

I have a few cupboards, filled to the (3m+) ceilings.

Offline ElectricFeet

  • Posts: 93
Re: Tiny cyclones
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2018, 01:33 PM »
Non-round shape of a collector 'bucket' for a cyclone isn't a good plan, but you'll find that out quickly - as it'll likely collapse, quite spectacular, the first time you close off the end of the hose...

Good to know. I'll be on the lookout. If it works, it works. If not, I'm happy to replace my bucket with an even more sturdy bucket (mine's pretty sturdy). But a bucket -- that can be used for household-bucket stuff (mainly cleaning windows) -- it will need to be, so that it can stay in the bucket-space under the sink.

If I may ask as you constantly repeat it: how much space do you have in your 'shop' ?

No shop, just an apartment with cupboards, and a good-sized balcony/terrace for sunny-day work (and I'm retired, living in Italy, so one sunny day is as good as another).

I'm aware that I'm on a forum with NA members who have shops the size of my apartment. But small-style apartment living while trying to woodwork keeps my brain active, if nothing else :-)

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1168
Re: Tiny cyclones
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2018, 02:28 PM »
Well, then it might make sense to you to get the Festool separator, it'll nicely stack with other systainers inside the cupboards - and when you replace the household-bucket with the clear bin (that is included with the CT-VA contraption) you'll save space... ;)

Jokes aside: for a cyclone separator to work the bin needs an airtight connection.

Offline travisj

  • Posts: 261
Re: Tiny cyclones
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2018, 04:21 PM »
I wonder if a simple baffle separator and a 5 gallon size pail would fit your needs.  this one is from Woodcraft, but the concept is simple and it would not be terribly difficult to build your own.  Then your bucket/pail is available for bucket like tasks, but you can put the lid on and hook up your vac when you need dust collection.

Offline RogerConnerTN

  • Posts: 5
Re: Tiny cyclones
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2018, 09:09 AM »
I have ty he Oneida Dust Deputy designed to go with the Festool system.  It sits on top of the dust extractor. At $299 it's expensive Doesn't take up more floor space but the yots ok brigvu as too tall to fit under a table.


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Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3647
Re: Tiny cyclones, interview with John Dyson
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2018, 03:59 PM »
Interesting, although there isn’t much specific detail about small cyclones...

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