Author Topic: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor  (Read 3453 times)

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Offline tazprime38

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Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« on: September 27, 2017, 07:32 AM »
Rigged up a dyson cyclone cannistor to my nilfisk attix 33-2m extractor.

This was only a trial. I got the dyson cannistor for a bargain £1 at a car boot sale so I thought its worth a go.

I was surprised at the suction, it was quite strong and hardly any loss compared to without the dyson attached.

Only thing I need to find out and am hoping someone can shed some insight on is by using this set up have I compromised the antistatic function of my extractor?

The black hose is not antistatic just normal vacuum hose but it is connected to the extractor using the nilfisk antistatic connector. The othet connectors are pvc pipe and old vacuum connectors connecting to the dyson.

Update. I used it yesterday on a skirting job and I just used th bungee strap that came with the nilfisk attix 33-2m to stap the dyson to the top of the L-box on the Nilfisk. Absolutely no movement and did not fall over. So I basically do not have to make or adapt anything to strap the dyson collector to my extractor. Takes 10 seconds to strap on and off.

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Offline tazprime38

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2017, 09:06 AM »
Some more pics

Offline Gregor

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2017, 09:48 AM »
Nice hack.

Only downside I see is that you can't look into the fine dust compartment (which is the inner cylinder) so you won't notice when that is full.

Offline tazprime38

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2017, 02:52 PM »
Nice hack.

Only downside I see is that you can't look into the fine dust compartment (which is the inner cylinder) so you won't notice when that is full.

Should not be a problem as its easy to empty regularly but I understand what your saying.

Offline Woodburner

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2017, 03:02 AM »
If you look up Bill Pentz's site (hope it's still there) He discussed static and the problems. Apparently there is nowhere enough energy to cause any trouble. You might feel something like hairs standing on end if you go near the hose, but that's all.
I used one of the single stage cyclones on the back of my Henry vac years ago. Still use it, it collects loads of dust, and the bag doesn't clog.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 03:06 AM by Woodburner »

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2017, 03:43 AM »
The Dyson technology is excellent. For the first couple of years that I had my CT26 I used to empty the bag using an old Dyson. I also used the Dyson to extract from the top of my homemade router tables.

My only worry about the continuous setup shown in the initial post is that perhaps the air flow is too great for that particular Dyson cyclone unit.

Peter

Offline Gregor

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2017, 06:31 AM »
The Dyson technology is excellent. For the first couple of years that I had my CT26 I used to empty the bag using an old Dyson. I also used the Dyson to extract from the top of my homemade router tables.

My only worry about the continuous setup shown in the initial post is that perhaps the air flow is too great for that particular Dyson cyclone unit.
As far as I got cyclone separators there is no upper limit, separation should just improve with increased air flow.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2017, 06:47 AM »
As far as I got cyclone separators there is no upper limit, separation should just improve with increased air flow.

I was cutting some (poor quality) MDF on one of my router tables with the Dyson DC05 taking most of the dust. At one point it stopped pulling dust, the canister was not full but the filter unit was completely clogged up. I assumed that it was caused by too much dust gong through which (again - another assumption) might happen if you pull too much dirty air through a Dyson cyclone unit using a separate vacuum.

Loads of assumptions on my part so it might be better to say that it is a gut feeling based on previous Dyson experience.

By the way...the small cordless Dysons are brilliant for insect catching.

Peter

Offline Woodburner

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2017, 10:02 AM »
Off topic - I like your videos Peter, excellent stuff.

Back to topic, I didn't realise how complex the maths of cyclones is until I trawled through the many pages of Bill Pentz. The air flow, diameter, particle size, cyclone dimensions are all significant. Even then a cyclone removes a %age of the dust, so you have one on the back, then another and so on. Even then some still gets through. The problem is the particles getting through get finer and finer, so are more of a hazard. The best thing to do is to exhaust outside the shop, otherwise you just have a dust mover, which collects most of it, just leaving the particles you want least.

I mostly use mine outside where the main function is to clean up the mess as cutting proceeds.

Online SRSemenza

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2017, 10:07 AM »
The Dyson technology is excellent. For the first couple of years that I had my CT26 I used to empty the bag using an old Dyson.

Peter

Sorry for the OT. But this just reminded me of when a neighbor came into my shop and found me in the middle of using a
 vacuum to clean another vacuum. He was standing there staring thinking 'ummmm, OK?'  [huh]

Seth

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2017, 10:33 AM »
The Dyson technology is excellent. For the first couple of years that I had my CT26 I used to empty the bag using an old Dyson.

Peter

Sorry for the OT. But this just reminded me of when a neighbor came into my shop and found me in the middle of using a
 vacuum to clean another vacuum. He was standing there staring thinking 'ummmm, OK?'  [huh]

Seth

At about £5 per bag and no job at the time I had to take things quite carefully !  [smile]

Peter

Offline Gregor

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2017, 05:02 PM »
As far as I got cyclone separators there is no upper limit, separation should just improve with increased air flow.

I was cutting some (poor quality) MDF on one of my router tables with the Dyson DC05 taking most of the dust. At one point it stopped pulling dust, the canister was not full but the filter unit was completely clogged up. I assumed that it was caused by too much dust gong through which (again - another assumption) might happen if you pull too much dirty air through a Dyson cyclone unit using a separate vacuum.

Loads of assumptions on my part so it might be better to say that it is a gut feeling based on previous Dyson experience.
I have created quite some experience (translate: made plenty experiments that failed) with cyclones for a certain project in the past, before coming up with setups that worked without recurring problems.

I found that more air was better in general. No cyclone is 100% perfect (not even the dyson ones, but the new ones are quite close as of their multi-stage approach) so some material will meet the (before or after) motor filter.

One should neither choke the airflow (by whatever means and for whatever periods of time) nor overload the airstream with material (which can force the former) as both can kill separation efficiency - and even a temporary lapse in separation will most likely impact your filter, possibly driving the system into feedback (less air, less separation, more dust in filter, goto 10).

What also will kill your separation is an (even tiny) air leak on or below the bottom connection of the cyclone (or a bugged dust bin), as this will change the airflow inside the cyclone and the (at least vertically) still air section that forms in the passage between cyclone and dust bin (through which your separated material is basically thrown through downward) will turn into an upward flow, carrying your material (or more precise: the fine parts) with it toward the filter.

Back to topic, I didn't realise how complex the maths of cyclones is until I trawled through the many pages of Bill Pentz. The air flow, diameter, particle size, cyclone dimensions are all significant.
Bills pages are brilliant, I digested them too back then.

Quote
Even then a cyclone removes a %age of the dust, so you have one on the back, then another and so on. Even then some still gets through. The problem is the particles getting through get finer and finer, so are more of a hazard. The best thing to do is to exhaust outside the shop, otherwise you just have a dust mover, which collects most of it, just leaving the particles you want least.
Yes, one shouldn't run a cyclone extractor (or whatever kind, as the problem als exists with normal dust bags) without an output HEPA filter should one want to breath the exhaust. But I find it questionable to skip the output filter and just pipe the stuff to the neighbours (which would be an excellent example of externalising costs).
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 03:51 AM by Gregor »

Offline tazprime38

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2017, 08:44 PM »
So far I have not ecountered any issues. It seems to be handling the airflow very well. I have left the hepa filter in the dyson and suction is great.

I am very happy with it so far. Will report back if I encounter any problems.

Offline Woodburner

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2017, 09:07 PM »
Quote
Yes, one shouldn't run a cyclone extractor (or whatever kind, as the problem als exists with normal dust bags) without an output HEPA filter should one want to breath the exhaust. But I find it questionable to skip the output filter and just pipe the stuff to the neighbours (which would be an excellent example of externalising costs).

I still have a HEPA filter on the back of the cyclone, even outside, but even then it will let something through. Everybody externalises their costs every time they drive a car. The tyres shed particles, as do the brakes. Or even every time they buy something, as you don't know how much, or how little care the manufacturer took. They usually do the minimum to avoid prosecution, and in many countries that's pretty near not a lot.

Offline worldburger

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2017, 12:01 PM »
The Dyson technology is excellent. For the first couple of years that I had my CT26 I used to empty the bag using an old Dyson.

Can you explain this? Are you saying you vacuumed out the Festool vacuum bags to empty them? (Are we talking about the expensive reusable ones or the regular ones?)

Offline Gregor

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2017, 12:47 PM »
The Dyson technology is excellent. For the first couple of years that I had my CT26 I used to empty the bag using an old Dyson.

Can you explain this? Are you saying you vacuumed out the Festool vacuum bags to empty them? (Are we talking about the expensive reusable ones or the regular ones?)
No clue which he ment but it works with both, with the long-life ones it's simpler as you can open them.

I do it on the inside of my long-life bag for the CT SYS every now and then (with a brush head) to clean the pores from the fine dust as it's less messy than to beat it against some object (or the other way around) to unclog it.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2017, 01:37 PM »
The Dyson technology is excellent. For the first couple of years that I had my CT26 I used to empty the bag using an old Dyson.

Can you explain this? Are you saying you vacuumed out the Festool vacuum bags to empty them? (Are we talking about the expensive reusable ones or the regular ones?)

Yes, the Dyson is bagless and costs nothing to empty ready to use again. It would take about 4 minutes to clear out a CT26 bag.

Peter

Offline tazprime38

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2017, 07:02 PM »
I used my setup with the dyson as the collector for drilling out a 117mm core for a cooker hood in double skin concrete and thermalite wall. I used a dust buddy screwed to the wall using some 90°brackets using the rim for clamping to the wall.

Done a fantastic job in capturing 99% of the dust which in turn was collected by the dydon collector. Customer was happy!


Offline Paul G

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2017, 08:02 AM »
I used my setup with the dyson as the collector for drilling out a 117mm core for a cooker hood in double skin concrete and thermalite wall. I used a dust buddy screwed to the wall using some 90°brackets using the rim for clamping to the wall.

Done a fantastic job in capturing 99% of the dust which in turn was collected by the dydon collector. Customer was happy!

Never seen that kind of attachment
+1

Offline tazprime38

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2017, 05:00 PM »
It called the 'dustbuddy' and I got it some years ago. I got it for ysing with my armeg socket cutting set. Without this the brick or block dust woul go everywhere, then I saw this advertised for use with the electrical socket cutters. With postage was about £10 and works really well. Only negative is you have to physically hold it in place with one hand while drilling, hence I used two brackets screwd to the wall acting as clamps on the outer rim of the dust buddy.

I may glue some tabs on the rim to allow for future clamping. I have just bought a second one as the first one I had to enlarge the hole for a 117mm core bit. I may also see if I can adapt it so the extractors suction holds it in place.


Offline tazprime38

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2017, 05:08 PM »
Here are some pics of the dustbuddy.


Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Using a dyson cyclone as a collector for an extractor
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2017, 05:16 PM »
The Dustbuddy is a good idea. Nice to know it works.