Author Topic: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review  (Read 82842 times)

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Offline TSO Products

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #180 on: August 08, 2016, 07:45 PM »
Auxiliary Support for Guide Rail Square on very short track:  picture (TSO experimental)
Hans
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Offline tjbnwi

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #181 on: August 12, 2016, 01:40 PM »
This square works extremely well.

Works with the Gecko if you need to lock the free end.

Tom
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 06:39 PM by tjbnwi »

Offline dutchie

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #182 on: August 13, 2016, 01:57 PM »
So I received my square yesterday, sadly haven't had time to test it yet. But got here in The Netherlands in a little over a week in great shape. Too bad I had to pay € 41,- for customs and import fees, but sadly that is to be expected over here in The Netherlands.

Hope to be able to test it real soon!

But I was thinking, has anyone tried it yet with their Seneca (or other) parallel guide(s)? I think you would only need to use one and let the TSO square make everything square?

Offline TSO Products

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #183 on: August 13, 2016, 03:02 PM »
Milan, thanks for the arrival report - ouch, that customs duty [crying]

Using only one parallel guide will work as long a you start with two perfectly square workpiece edges.
Hans
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Offline tazprime38

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #184 on: August 13, 2016, 03:50 PM »
Milan, thanks for the arrival report - ouch, that customs duty [crying]

Using only one parallel guide will work as long a you start with two perfectly square workpiece edges.
Hans

The festool parallel guides will not work with the square as the bottom one sits near the bittom reference edge of workpiece. Yes you could use one at the top end as long as two edges are already square as Hans mentioned.

Offline dutchie

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #185 on: August 13, 2016, 04:00 PM »
Milan, thanks for the arrival report - ouch, that customs duty [crying]

Using only one parallel guide will work as long a you start with two perfectly square workpiece edges.
Hans

The festool parallel guides will not work with the square as the bottom one sits near the bittom reference edge of workpiece. Yes you could use one at the top end as long as two edges are already square as Hans mentioned.
Ah yes, but I meant an aftermarket parallel guide system like Seneca, Precision Dogs, etc. That should work I think?

Offline tazprime38

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #186 on: August 13, 2016, 04:39 PM »
Milan, thanks for the arrival report - ouch, that customs duty [crying]

Using only one parallel guide will work as long a you start with two perfectly square workpiece edges.
Hans

The festool parallel guides will not work with the square as the bottom one sits near the bittom reference edge of workpiece. Yes you could use one at the top end as long as two edges are already square as Hans mentioned.
Ah yes, but I meant an aftermarket parallel guide system like Seneca, Precision Dogs, etc. That should work I think?

Yes those 3rd party ones that sit on the work peice should work nicely. I may have to think about selling my festool parallel guides and get ine of those😕

Offline dutchie

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #187 on: August 14, 2016, 02:22 PM »
So I made a little test cut today with my Precision Dogs parallel guide and the TSO GRS-16. Set it to 38 cm (could have been any number), had a go and got pretty much perfect results.


Offline tazprime38

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #188 on: August 15, 2016, 09:51 AM »
I see the new PE square is listed now on the TSO site price initially at $169.99.

What is the price for people who have already bought the original Square?

I have to decide if I really do want the PE version due to cost. I would have bought the PE version if they were bith available initially saving a lot of money.😕

Hopefully the discount offered to version one buyers will be generous😜

Offline Alan m

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #189 on: August 18, 2016, 04:58 PM »
just got mine today. it was in the post office yesterday

it cost me 38 euro customs


only had a quick look. but it looks great
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline clark_fork

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #190 on: August 19, 2016, 02:58 PM »
Discount on the new rail guide for prior purchase of the GRS-16 is @20.00. E-mail Eric and they send you a coupon code.
Clark Fork

"A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths."  Stephen Wright

"straight, smooth and square" Mr. Russell, first day high school shop class-1954

" What's the good of it?" My Sainted Grandmother

"You can't be too rich, too thin or have too many clamps." After my introduction to pocket joinery and now the MFT work process

"Don't make something unless it is both made necessary and useful; but if it is both necessary and useful,
don't hesitate to make it beautiful." -- Shaker dictum

Offline tazprime38

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #191 on: August 19, 2016, 07:21 PM »
Discount on the new rail guide for prior purchase of the GRS-16 is @20.00. E-mail Eric and they send you a coupon code.

I have emailed Hans but not heard back. Who is Eric?

Offline clark_fork

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #192 on: August 20, 2016, 12:36 AM »
Discount on the new rail guide for prior purchase of the GRS-16 is @20.00. E-mail Eric and they send you a coupon code.

I have emailed Hans but not heard back. Who is Eric?

Eric Friedebach ( Writes the Blog) They should get back to you soon.

My coupon worked for the $20.00 discount and the shipping was only $8.90 to Montana ( Pony Express)

Clark Fork

"A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths."  Stephen Wright

"straight, smooth and square" Mr. Russell, first day high school shop class-1954

" What's the good of it?" My Sainted Grandmother

"You can't be too rich, too thin or have too many clamps." After my introduction to pocket joinery and now the MFT work process

"Don't make something unless it is both made necessary and useful; but if it is both necessary and useful,
don't hesitate to make it beautiful." -- Shaker dictum

Offline tazprime38

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #193 on: August 20, 2016, 05:00 PM »
Discount on the new rail guide for prior purchase of the GRS-16 is @20.00. E-mail Eric and they send you a coupon code.

I have emailed Hans but not heard back. Who is Eric?

Eric Friedebach ( Writes the Blog) They should get back to you soon.

My coupon worked for the $20.00 discount and the shipping was only $8.90 to Montana ( Pony Express)

I got a reply back with the $20 coupon. They are not offering the free postage which makes the total for me after taxes of £221.00 , this is way too expensive considering I have the grs 16 version one.

The PE version is just so much more useful. Wish I had waited and got the PE version only. I think that having two to use at both ends of workpiece is just a marketing gimmick more than anything. I may end up selling the first one if I go for the PE version.

Offline clark_fork

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #194 on: August 20, 2016, 05:29 PM »
Discount on the new rail guide for prior purchase of the GRS-16 is @20.00. E-mail Eric and they send you a coupon code.

I have emailed Hans but not heard back. Who is Eric?

Yet another note. The discount is only good until September 20, 2016 according the latest note from Eric.  It is not clear whether the current pricing is introductory with a 9/20 expiration then bringing the PE to almost $200.00. That would price me out and in my opinion many others. The free shipping was welcome, however, for the GRS-16. I don't mind paying under $10.00 but jeepers if you are out of the county, it is expensive. My sympathies.





Eric Friedebach ( Writes the Blog) They should get back to you soon.

My coupon worked for the $20.00 discount and the shipping was only $8.90 to Montana ( Pony Express)

I got a reply back with the $20 coupon. They are not offering the free postage which makes the total for me after taxes of £221.00 , this is way too expensive considering I have the grs 16 version one.

The PE version is just so much more useful. Wish I had waited and got the PE version only. I think that having two to use at both ends of workpiece is just a marketing gimmick more than anything. I may end up selling the first one if I go for the PE version.
Clark Fork

"A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths."  Stephen Wright

"straight, smooth and square" Mr. Russell, first day high school shop class-1954

" What's the good of it?" My Sainted Grandmother

"You can't be too rich, too thin or have too many clamps." After my introduction to pocket joinery and now the MFT work process

"Don't make something unless it is both made necessary and useful; but if it is both necessary and useful,
don't hesitate to make it beautiful." -- Shaker dictum

Offline tazprime38

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #195 on: August 20, 2016, 06:11 PM »
Discount on the new rail guide for prior purchase of the GRS-16 is @20.00. E-mail Eric and they send you a coupon code.

I have emailed Hans but not heard back. Who is Eric?

Yet another note. The discount is only good until September 20, 2016 according the latest note from Eric.  It is not clear whether the current pricing is introductory with a 9/20 expiration then bringing the PE to almost $200.00. That would price me out and in my opinion many others. The free shipping was welcome, however, for the GRS-16. I don't mind paying under $10.00 but jeepers if you are out of the county, it is expensive. My sympathies.





Eric Friedebach ( Writes the Blog) They should get back to you soon.

My coupon worked for the $20.00 discount and the shipping was only $8.90 to Montana ( Pony Express)

I got a reply back with the $20 coupon. They are not offering the free postage which makes the total for me after taxes of £221.00 , this is way too expensive considering I have the grs 16 version one.

The PE version is just so much more useful. Wish I had waited and got the PE version only. I think that having two to use at both ends of workpiece is just a marketing gimmick more than anything. I may end up selling the first one if I go for the PE version.

You know, I believe if TSO realised at the design stage that a Parallel square had more functionality, they would have prpbably not made the version one and we would have had only the PE version to start with.

It has probably worked out well for them now by marketting the gimmick of using two squares for long cuts lol. Fir two squares to work as I have stated in an earlier post, both the bottom and top edges of workpiece would need to be parallel in the first place.

For both squares it will cost me around £370 pounds.  The square us brilliant and genius  as it really solves a problem perfectly saving a lot of faffing around and time. As the prices will go up I will have a good chance to sell version one locally for a good price, probably my best option as I can't justify both but want the PE version.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #196 on: August 20, 2016, 06:27 PM »
@tazprime38

The development of the second square came about thru comments received by testers - myself included.  If you go up in this thread you will see that I mentioned that possibly having 2 squares would help especially on long rails.

The original square is handier out in the field for me based on the shape. 

My guess is that you could indeed find a buyer for your original version and recoup most if not all of your costs.

Peter

Scraps to Smiles.  To be continued.....  Stay Tuned.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #197 on: August 20, 2016, 07:27 PM »
Don't forget, the square square won't fit in a Sys 1.

Offline tazprime38

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #198 on: August 20, 2016, 09:43 PM »
Peter, yes I am hoping I will recoup all of cost of version one. I will put up for sale once the introductory lower price ends.

Michael, I don't need to put it in a sys 1.  That does not bother me. I have the festool track and fittings case ( the big one ) or  I'll just find myself a small zip up case. I have the tool boxes from Rutlands that are a copy of systainers (not as good), but are slightly bigger in dimensions than systainers. It will easily fit in one of the equivalent of sys 1 or 2.

Offline bryan1982

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #199 on: August 21, 2016, 01:15 AM »
I think ill be cutting the end off the squares so it will fit in a sys one

Cheers

Bryan

Offline Alan m

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #200 on: August 21, 2016, 06:17 AM »
mine fits in the sys 4 with the ts55.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline tazprime38

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #201 on: August 21, 2016, 09:08 AM »
mine fits in the sys 4 with the ts55.

That is probably the best solution.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #202 on: August 21, 2016, 09:46 AM »
I'd rather add the square to the saw's Systainer too but fitting the square into a Sys 1 seems to be the reason for the triangular end.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #203 on: August 21, 2016, 09:10 PM »
back at my desk I read the recent string of comments regarding the -PE version of the GRS-16.
Peter Halle is correct that the -PE came about as a result of FOG members comments. It was not part of a grand marketing scheme - we're just not that smart.
We still don't know how important storage and general handiness of the each of these tools is to the user (forms factor question). Time will tell and we will listen.
Pricing is always a factor. In this  case we opted to do whatever it takes to develop, produce and bring to market the very best tool for the market which saves a considerable amount of time for the user over the life of the tool. Seen in that light, a price difference of s a hundred dollars becomes pretty insignificant compared to the "Return-on-Investment" when using the tool.
In the final analysis, FESTOOL Owners Group members have a pretty good ability to recognize performance and value in the tools they choose to invest in.

As a matter of business philosophy we will not offer our tools on a pre-buy basis just to lower our cost and business risk.
We thank all of you for your comments - we learn something from every one of them!

Hans

Hans
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Offline TSO Products

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #204 on: August 21, 2016, 09:27 PM »
packaging protection : - our promised update:
our packaging worked well for almost everyone - but almost is not good enough. We have launched packaging improvements using a two-component urethane foam system produced by SealedAir Corporation. It is expensive material and labor intensive to use on a low volume basis. But a number of you most recent purchasers have already seen how effective it is at protecting the tool in transit. As we gained experience with the relatively shallow carton dimension we have found a method of improving the box fill and making it easier for the user to get the tool out of the foam pack.
A further packaging refinement is in the works with tooling under way now. The aim is to make the packaging re-usable for the customer. Changeover will be seen late September/ early October.
Hans
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Offline TSO Products

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #205 on: August 21, 2016, 10:00 PM »
Blemish / cosmetics reports - promised update:
digging into this issue with the help of a returned product we identified two areas which called for improvement.

One involved prevention and detection of in-process handling damage at the machining stage. That was quick to address with a process change and an additional inspection step.

The other involved the anodizing process - or more specifically how each part is "racked" - that is attached to the metal frame work which holds and lowers the part into the tanks while maintaining a path for current to flow. We will machine two holes into the tool for the sole purpose of preventing the "racking" process from leaving two telltale tiny silver marks in the anodized finish of  functional precision edges and surfaces. This will be a running change implemented after the production process has been tested.

A third topic relating to cosmetics involves the contact marks left by the Latch on the edge of the Guide Rail extrusion. We carefully re-checked  to see if the appearance of marks left by the Latch had any detrimental effect on the close tolerances of the guide rail edges.  Any hard clamping in a vise or with connector set-screws will leave some marks on finely finished materials. The use of "soft-jaws" on the Latch is not practical. Fortunately we don't leave pronounced and unsightly impressions like the connector screws do. Since the the function of guide rails is in no way impaired we consider the investigation closed with no further action required except to alert future users to expect to see visible evidence of the Latch clamping with no effect on function or durability of the guide rails.

Your feedback is always helpful.
thank you
Hans
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Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #206 on: August 22, 2016, 08:56 AM »
Hans, thanks for detailing your efforts to continue improving the product.
It's not only admirable, I find it very interesting.

Offline tazprime38

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #207 on: August 24, 2016, 06:30 PM »
This shows that the grs16  square fits nicely in to the ts55 systainer.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #208 on: August 24, 2016, 07:39 PM »
This shows that the grs16  square fits nicely in to the ts55 systainer.

Tariq,
thank you - may we have your permission to add your picture to our website?
Others will appreciate seeing it, I'm sure.

Hans
TSOproducts.com
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Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares - and the MTR-18 Triangle

Offline tazprime38

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Re: A New Rail Square Coming to Market - Teaser for Future Review
« Reply #209 on: August 25, 2016, 06:12 AM »
This shows that the grs16  square fits nicely in to the ts55 systainer.

Tariq,
thank you - may we have your permission to add your picture to our website?
Others will appreciate seeing it, I'm sure.

Hans

Hans, yes you have my permission.👍