Author Topic: Metric or Imperial Tools - We've got both (for now)  (Read 6903 times)

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Offline Shane Holland

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Metric or Imperial Tools - We've got both (for now)
« on: September 25, 2016, 09:08 PM »
All, as most of you know, Festool has begun migrating some its tools to imperial scales.

There are folks that have bought into the metric system that still want the metric version. Well, we've got 'em while supplies last and stock is limited.

Festool metric scale tools

New Festool imperial scale tools

A list of which tools are effected by this change:

Planer HL 850 E
Router OF 1010 EQ
Router OF 1400 EQ
Router OF 2200
Circular Saw TS 55 REQ
Circular Saw TS 75 EQ
Circular Saw TSC 55 REB Li
Circular Saw TSC 55REB Li XL
Circular Saw TSC 55 REB - FS
Parallel Side Fence
Parallel Guide Extension
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Offline Rhino1789

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Re: Metric or Imperial Tools - We've got both (for now)
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2016, 09:42 PM »
Shane,
Thanks for the run down on the Festool tools currently available in imperial scale.  I'm currently contemplating a tool transition to the Festool system and was very curious to know whether I should remain invested in the imperial scale or switch completely over to the metric system. 

Common sense tells me that it might be easier to only deal in whole mms versus the laborious process of adding/subtracting fractions.  For those in the States that have transitions to metric, is it easier? Have you had any issues fully transitioning given the fact that most of the hardware, plans, and accessories are on the imperial scale?

Thanks!

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Metric or Imperial Tools - We've got both (for now)
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2016, 10:34 PM »
@Rhino1789, welcome to the forum. Feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions at shane@toolnut.com.

I think it's just a matter of personal preference. There are various opinions from the forum members and maybe we can get some of them to weigh in.

Since some of these tools will no longer be offered in the US/Canada with metric scales, you may want to take that into consideration. Festool is offering a service to swap some tools from imperial to metric for a fee, I believe $75, if you buy the imperial and later decide you want metric.

When we learned of the conversion to imperial, we opted to stock up on metric tools since we felt like we had a fair number of customers who have bought metric and may want to stay metric.

Shane
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Offline aterren

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Re: Metric or Imperial Tools - We've got both (for now)
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2016, 11:12 PM »
It is too bad they couldn't dual scale them so we could have the best of both worlds.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Metric or Imperial Tools - We've got both (for now)
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2016, 07:16 AM »
It is too bad they couldn't dual scale them so we could have the best of both worlds.

First, welcome to the FOG.
The issue with a dual scale, at least with some of the tools, is the increments that detents are set.  For example, my "old" metric TS55 saw has a detent at each millimeter for setting the depth, and my new HKC saw, with imperial scale, has a detent at each 1/16".  Sure a dual scale could be added, but you might not be able to set the saw to the exact millimeter you want because of the imperial detents.  I don't know how many of the tools adjustment mechanisms have been change over to imperial versus just adding a new imperial scale.     
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 10:05 AM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Metric or Imperial Tools - We've got both (for now)
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2016, 09:09 AM »
It is too bad they couldn't dual scale them so we could have the best of both worlds.

First, welcome to the FOG.
The issue with a dual scale, at least with some of the tools, is the increments that detents are set.  For example, my "old" metric TS55 saw has a detent at each millimeter for setting the depth, and my new HKC saw, with imperial scale, has a detent at each 1/16".  Sure a dual scale could be added, but you might not be able to set the saw to the exact millimeter you want because of the imperial detents.  I don't know how many of the tools adjustment mechanisms have been change over to imperial versus just adding a new imperial scale.     

Really? Tyler said the detents would remain metric.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Metric or Imperial Tools - We've got both (for now)
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2016, 10:04 AM »
Really? Tyler said the detents would remain metric.

That makes sense, I imagine it would be too costly to add production to include an imperial. 
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Offline clark_fork

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Re: Metric or Imperial Tools - We've got both (for now)
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2016, 10:47 AM »
All, as most of you know, Festool has begun migrating some its tools to imperial scales.

There are folks that have bought into the metric system that still want the metric version. Well, we've got 'em while supplies last and stock is limited.

Festool metric scale tools

New Festool imperial scale tools

A list of which tools are effected by this change:

Planer HL 850 E
Router OF 1010 EQ
Router OF 1400 EQ
Router OF 2200
Circular Saw TS 55 REQ
Circular Saw TS 75 EQ
Circular Saw TSC 55 REB Li
Circular Saw TSC 55REB Li XL
Circular Saw TSC 55 REB - FS
Parallel Side Fence
Parallel Guide Extension

One note may be in order about the Parallel Side Fence and the Parallel Guide Extension.

When Tyler got back from the Festool Castle, he reported the following from Baron Festool

"2. The Parallel Side Fence and Parallel Guide Extension will be available for purchase in your choice of imperial or metric. Essentially, this means that the imperial accessories will be offered as new products, and we won’t be discontinuing the old ones."

Shane, can you confirm this was carried out?

Clark Fork

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Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Metric or Imperial Tools - We've got both (for now)
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2016, 12:02 PM »
@clark_fork, yes, I have confirmed that Festool will continue to offer the parallel guides in metric.
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Offline Untidy Shop

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Re: Metric or Imperial Tools - We've got both (for now)
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2016, 05:49 PM »
It is too bad they couldn't dual scale them so we could have the best of both worlds.

First, welcome to the FOG.
The issue with a dual scale, at least with some of the tools, is the increments that detents are set.  For example, my "old" metric TS55 saw has a detent at each millimeter for setting the depth, and my new HKC saw, with imperial scale, has a detent at each 1/16".  Sure a dual scale could be added, but you might not be able to set the saw to the exact millimeter you want because of the imperial detents.  I don't know how many of the tools adjustment mechanisms have been change over to imperial versus just adding a new imperial scale.     

Really? Tyler said the detents would remain metric.

I am curious about the scales on the HK imperial saws.

It has been suggested here that each indent on the imperial scale is 1/16th of an inch. Well it's still a metric tool in design and construction, so I assume that each indents is really 1mm.

But 1/16 inch = 1.5875mm.  [eek]

Am I missing something here? I do not yet have an HK.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 06:23 PM by Untidy Shop »
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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Metric or Imperial Tools - We've got both (for now)
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2016, 06:06 PM »
It is too bad they couldn't dual scale them so we could have the best of both worlds.

First, welcome to the FOG.
The issue with a dual scale, at least with some of the tools, is the increments that detents are set.  For example, my "old" metric TS55 saw has a detent at each millimeter for setting the depth, and my new HKC saw, with imperial scale, has a detent at each 1/16".  Sure a dual scale could be added, but you might not be able to set the saw to the exact millimeter you want because of the imperial detents.  I don't know how many of the tools adjustment mechanisms have been change over to imperial versus just adding a new imperial scale.     

Really? Tyler said the detents would remain metric.

I am curious about the scales on the HK imperial saws.

The tools are metric with imperial scales and it has been suggested here that each indent is 1/16th of an inch on the imperial scale. Well it's still a metric tool in design and construction, so I assume that the indents are really 1mm.

But 1/16 inch = 1.5875mm.  [eek]

Am I missing something here? I do not yet have an HK.

First, this metric / imperial scale scenario appears only to be a North American thing.  In the product lines of power tools released in this market prior to the decision the named tools will have a new scale in imperial but the adjusters will remain in metric.  Based on what was posted by Brice, the HKC saws - new to the market, have imperial adjusters and imperial scales.

I refuse to post here about my feelings on the decision to go imperial in the US, but I will offer my thoughts on why there is a mismatch on the previously introduced tools based on previous personal experiences.

My thoughts are that if Festool wanted to change the indexing portion of the tool that would be considered a change that would be part of the assembly and would require a new submission and testing by an agency recognized by their insurance carrier or b other parties.  A label change does not affect the the "assembly" and can be accomplished without further review and approval.

Brice has always been accurate and based on that I suspect that the HKC series was tested and approved as an assembly with the imperial parts here in North America.

Just my thoughts and opinions.

Peter

Offline Cheese

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Re: Metric or Imperial Tools - We've got both (for now)
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2016, 06:36 PM »
Hey @Untidy Shop, the detents on the imperial HKC are imperial...1/16" increments.

Offline Untidy Shop

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Re: Metric or Imperial Tools - We've got both (for now)
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2016, 08:13 PM »
Thank you @Cheese and @Peter Halle for satisfying my curiosity.


Obviously a Nth American thing Peter, but my curiosity was raised when I realised that the 1/16 inch to mm conversion was to my mind problematic. Anyway problem solved by imperial parts to indent mechanisms.

As the saying goes, 'Curiosity Killed the Cat'!  [smile]
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Metric or Imperial Tools - We've got both (for now)
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2016, 08:59 PM »
First, this metric / imperial scale scenario appears only to be a North American thing.  In the product lines of power tools released in this market prior to the decision the named tools will have a new scale in imperial but the adjusters will remain in metric.  Based on what was posted by Brice, the HKC saws - new to the market, have imperial adjusters and imperial scales.........

.....Brice has always been accurate and based on that I suspect that the HKC series was tested and approved as an assembly with the imperial parts here in North America.......
Hey @Untidy Shop, the detents on the imperial HKC are imperial...1/16" increments.

As Peter mentioned I try to be accurate with my posts here.  This time I believe I was mistaken on my comments about the HK saw's detents being in imperial increments.  Upon closer inspection I now think the HK's detents are probably metric.  I should have made that clear when I edited my post to strike out my comments on imperial detents earlier today.  Sorry for any confusion.   
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Offline Cheese

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Re: Metric or Imperial Tools - We've got both (for now)
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2016, 01:01 AM »
As Peter mentioned I try to be accurate with my posts here.  This time I believe I was mistaken on my comments about the HK saw's detents being in imperial increments.  Upon closer inspection I now think the HK's detents are probably metric.  I should have made that clear when I edited my post to strike out my comments on imperial detents earlier today.  Sorry for any confusion.   

I think all the posters try to be accurate in the information they release, however Festool doesn't make it easy in this respect. We've asked Tyler, we've asked Festool, and we get either no information or convoluted information which forces us to again ask the question a 3rd or 4th time. I personally asked 2 times if the new imperial HKC had an imperial scale and if it had imperial or metric detents. Radio silence...that's just not acceptable from a customer support perspective. Customer Service Rating...a solid F
So rather than pre ordering the HKC, I was forced to visit Betterly's in person to obtain the information I needed to secure my purchase. I was determined not to purchase a lame duck saw, a saw that had an imperial scale with metric detents.  [sad]  Visiting Betterly's was a great experience, however it was also a 4 hour addition to an already long day. Had the requisite information been available at the Festool web site, I would have simply ordered the HKC from Betterly's and it would have been delivered in 2 days to my front door.

Please...Festool, cheat sheets would eliminate most of the information/disinformation that you need to issue or to illustrate why your tool fills the void where others do not. In one word ...communicate with the rest of the world.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 09:27 AM by Cheese »

Offline NL-mikkla

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Re: Metric or Imperial Tools - We've got both (for now)
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2016, 04:07 AM »
I thought Imperial was dying out and Metric would become the new global standard.
Opinion based because the UK changed in the last years.
I guess this is not the case in the US, glad I live in Metric land!

Offline antss

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Re: Metric or Imperial Tools - We've got both (for now)
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2016, 03:08 PM »
Metric IS the global standard, it's just that we Americans have refused to get with the program. 

Having Jimmy Carter as the chief salesman and trying to sell it in a really really crappy economy pretty much sunk the boat before it even left the dock.

Shane, $75 for a conversion that looks like it amounts to swapping out a sticker on most of the tools listed is just plain robbery.  [scared]. Now , if they're swapping me out for a brand new tool , or that includes overnight delivery ok.  But I seriously doubt that. 

Offline Kodi Crescent

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Re: Metric or Imperial Tools - We've got both (for now)
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2016, 07:13 PM »
Shane,
Thanks for the run down on the Festool tools currently available in imperial scale.  I'm currently contemplating a tool transition to the Festool system and was very curious to know whether I should remain invested in the imperial scale or switch completely over to the metric system. 

Common sense tells me that it might be easier to only deal in whole mms versus the laborious process of adding/subtracting fractions.  For those in the States that have transitions to metric, is it easier? Have you had any issues fully transitioning given the fact that most of the hardware, plans, and accessories are on the imperial scale?

Thanks!

I don't build anything off any plans, so I can't speak to that.  In regards to the transition from Imperial to metric, I can't say it's easy.  I don't have the conversions for common imperial standards memorized (e.g. 16" oc is 406 mm), so I often have to do a conversion. (Writing this reply is helping!)

On my TS saws, I've made marks on the depth scale for cutting various materials.  Roughly 18 mm for 1/2" material, 25mm for 3/4", and 48 mm for 1x materials. (Yes, the math doesn't work out for the straight conversion.  You need to add the rail thickness and a tiny bit more to go completely through the material).

I haven't really had to do any fine adjustment work with the routers, so I wouldn't rely heavily on those scales anyhow.  The planer is a bit tougher to decipher.  If I remember correctly, you can do fractions of a mm.

As far as actual measuring goes, I have a Hulfator's metric tape measure.  It's easy to use as long as I keep my units consistent (mm or cm) and remember to pull the tape right handed so that the scale is reading upright.  IMO, it's much easier to measure to a full mm rather than trying to measure to one of those little fractional marks on the imperial scales.