Author Topic: NEW! Festool Hybrid 18V Cordless Brushless Sanders - Oct. 2017 (US) - Tool Nut  (Read 3636 times)

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Offline Shane Holland

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NEW! Festool Hybrid 18V Cordless Brushless Sanders - Coming October 2017!

PRE-ORDER Festool 18V Hybrid Sanders!

Pre-order the newest additions to Festool's renowned line up of finish sanders - the new ETSC 125, DTSC 400 and RTSC 400. These new sanders offer a hybrid approach to power - choose from 18V battery operation or A/C power! They all feature brushless motor technology to extend battery life and increase performance. Get 30 minutes of runtime from a single battery charge which can be recharged in under 25 minutes, giving you continuous battery power. Each model comes with an included pad protector and dust bag.

Available in three flavors: the BASIC, PLUS and SET. See below for what's included with each model.



Prices begin at $195 for the BASIC model, $400 for the PLUS and $535 for the SET. Order now, ships on Monday, October 2nd.

PRE-ORDER Festool 18V Hybrid Sanders!

Also coming October 2017 are the new PLANEX Easy and SysLite STL 450 Surface Inspection Light.

Important Notes:

The 18V 1.3Ah batteries for these cordless sanders are a new platform called ERGO by Festool. These batteries are NOT compatible with other Festool cordless tools. The A/C adapter is NOT compatible with other Festool cordless tools.

They ARE compatible with the existing TCL 3, TCL 6 and SCA 8 battery chargers.



« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 11:20 AM by Shane Holland »
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Offline antss

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Is this per-order period going to last more than two days before its pulled ?   [wink]

Offline TylerC

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Is this per-order period going to last more than two days before its pulled ?   [wink]

We have plenty in stock. Shouldn't be an issue this time. But, of course, don't wait to order yours as soon as you can!  [wink]

Offline Shane Holland

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Tyler, thanks for chiming in! Good info. [thumbs up]

Any other questions from anyone?
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Offline neilc

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Any idea on sanding run-time on battery before having to recharge?  And how long to recharge a battery?

Offline Shane Holland

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Any idea on sanding run-time on battery before having to recharge?  And how long to recharge a battery?

Good question, @neilc.

Get 30 minutes of run time from a single battery charge which can be recharged in under 25 minutes, giving you continuous battery power.
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Offline antss

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Shane - have you guys put one through its paces yet to verify the real world run times ?

Offline Shane Holland

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Shane - have you guys put one through its paces yet to verify the real world run times ?

@antss, since these were just announced by FUSA today, we have not gotten demo tools yet. We hope to have them soon and have the chance to put hands on them ourselves. I think like most European brands, Festool typical "nerfs" their numbers. Meaning that the performance is better than reported. These sanders launch in just a few short days in Europe so some of the forum members on the other side of the pond will have an opportunity to share their experiences. I suspect we may also see a great video from our friend, @Peter Parfitt in the near future.

Shane
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Offline #Tee

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looks like another hit item!
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

IG: tee212

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Shane - have you guys put one through its paces yet to verify the real world run times ?

@antss, since these were just announced by FUSA today, we have not gotten demo tools yet. We hope to have them soon and have the chance to put hands on them ourselves. I think like most European brands, Festool typical "nerfs" their numbers. Meaning that the performance is better than reported. These sanders launch in just a few short days in Europe so some of the forum members on the other side of the pond will have an opportunity to share their experiences. I suspect we may also see a great video from our friend, @Peter Parfitt in the near future.

Shane

Hi Shane

We saw these at the Festool Bloggers event last month. Everyone had the chance to try them and I think that they will be very popular.

They can work cordless with a small dust bag, mains powered with an extractor and any combination of the two.



Speak to Toolpig for a second opinion !

Peter

Offline #Tee

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waiting on your review peter! so you can say "brilliant brilliant piece of machinery" lol [tongue]
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

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Offline Peter Parfitt

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waiting on your review peter! so you can say "brilliant brilliant piece of machinery" lol [tongue]

I am reliant on the good grace of Festool UK to include me in the list of writers and bloggers who get to play with the demo kit.

I am not sure if UK dealers have these yet.

Peter

Offline Phil Beckley

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Hi.....cool these are going to be released in the US [cool]
On the 4th September @ 17.00hrs Queen Elizabeth Time  [smile] for the UK the sanders will be shown live and interactive on the UK facebook page this will include the Multi Jetstream 2 pad and the net abrasive - Granat Net  [smile]
Rg
Phil
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Online Cheese

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It'd be real nice to incorporate this style battery into a Vecturo... [cool]

Rather surprised that the run time is only 30 minutes. [tongue]  [tongue]

Seems like a wireless power transfer system could be incorporated in the cover of the systainer and through capacitive or inductive coupling, the sander could be recharged by just placing the sander on the top of the systainer when not in use. That way complete battery change-outs could possibly be reduced to only a few per day.

Offline Gregor

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It'd be real nice to incorporate this style battery into a Vecturo... [cool]
That would be an argument to buy one (given that the mains power adapter works too).
Quote
Seems like a wireless power transfer system could be incorporated in the cover of the systainer and through capacitive or inductive coupling
Why increase the energy bill by 10% (loss of indirect charging) when swapping the battery takes <10s?

Online Cheese

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Why increase the energy bill by 10% (loss of indirect charging) when swapping the battery takes <10s?

For me it's not about the increase in electricity used as that would be minimal, but rather the convenience. I usually work outside, however all of my battery chargers are in the house, in the basement. So that becomes a PITA if I had to re-battery every half hour.

That's exactly why I purchased the larger battery for the CXS. I just got tired of running into the house and swapping out the battery every hour or so.


Offline antss

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It'd be real nice to incorporate this style battery into a Vecturo... [cool]
That would be an argument to buy one (given that the mains power adapter works too).
Quote
Seems like a wireless power transfer system could be incorporated in the cover of the systainer and through capacitive or inductive coupling
Why increase the energy bill by 10% (loss of indirect charging) when swapping the battery takes <10s?

For the same reason that a cordless sander makes sense.

CONVENIENCE.

Why waste electricity charging a battery in the first place since direct connection to the mains is more efficient that charging a battery ?  Additionally , there's the issue of triggering the vacuum when using battery power , yet we still have these sanders. 
So , induction charging would just be another added feature for a tool in the "premium" section.  We already have a cordless sander in the market that does the same thing as this one and its battery can be used on 50-100 other tools.  Induction charging would be a nice option in my opinion, and not just for this sander.


Online Svar

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Seems like a wireless power transfer system could be incorporated in the cover of the systainer and through capacitive or inductive coupling, the sander could be recharged by just placing the sander on the top of the systainer when not in use. That way complete battery change-outs could possibly be reduced to only a few per day.
But then you'll need to power the systainer. How? Plug it in? Then what's the advantage over regular charger?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 07:15 PM by Svar »

Offline aloysius

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The concept of induction charging does have limited merit, esp where time is significantly constrained, for example in production line & industrial scenarios it would be beneficial.  Where there's concerns about water or other material contamination of battery/tool electrical contacts, such as with your electrical toothbrush, the induction interface also makes sense.

Maybe a low powered drill, with its battery conveniently located at the bottom of the assembly can physically support induction charging too.  One doesn't necessarily require a powered systainer either:  instead, the systainer could be filled with a 240/120v charging unit & a large bank of lithium cells & proximity sensors for true cordless charging.  Provided the Systainer was big (& heavy) enough, one could theoretically recharge all day from a single overnight charge.

The practical constraints, however, render the possible benefits & operational convenience redundant.  In tools such as sanders the tool would necessarily require recharging eithe on its side OR upside down to allow intimate contact with the induction field.  For tools with their batteries on the bottom, this is possible, but sanders require their sanding pads to be on the bottom.  Let's not forget the potential dangers to heart pacemakers and other mission critical health monitoring & dosage devices that these rather strong electromagnetic fields represent.

The battery format for the new sanders are cleverly designed to prevent their use elsewhere across the Festo/ol range.  They're specifically designed for low current draw (i.e. gutless) tools: drills, grinders, saws etc. are specifically excluded.  They draw way too much current for small, lightweight mains supply adapters.

If you desperately want your cordless tool to become corded, then you can always cannabilise an old tired battery pack for its tool contact interface & make up your own remote power supply.  Not that I either recommend or endorse such extreme & inappropriate actions.  There's a whole world of extremely well designed, effective and superior performing mains tools already out there;  why would you bother?

The little Festo/ol range of cordless sanders are an extremely well designed package. Whilst there may be question marks over the performance of the 125mm random sander (given the dissatisfaction expressed over the performance of its corded equivalent) the sheer light weight convenience of cordless operation makes the direct drive orbitals ideal for the myriad of small jobs that the homeowner requires.

In fact, for the first time in its history, Festo/ol has finally made a cordless tool that may actually be not just worthwhile and useful, but also of a superior design to its less expensive rivals.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 07:03 PM by aloysius »
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Online Cheese

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But then you'll need power the systainer. How? Plug it in? Then what's the advantage over regular charger?

The advantage is that you're not removing the battery to charge it. 

I'm sanding and then get interrupted, just lay the sander down on the Systainer and walk away, it's charging.

I'm sanding but then need to use the Domino, just lay the sander down on the Systainer and walk away, it's charging.

I'm sanding but then need to assemble some parts, just lay the sander down.............

Offline antss

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Seems like a wireless power transfer system could be incorporated in the cover of the systainer and through capacitive or inductive coupling, the sander could be recharged by just placing the sander on the top of the systainer when not in use. That way complete battery change-outs could possibly be reduced to only a few per day.
But then you'll need power the systainer. How? Plug it in? Then what's the advantage over regular charger?

The advantage is simply one of convenience, like I said before.  Some will find it a benefit , others will not.  Just like the cordless sander.  Personally , I've wished for a cordless sander exactly zero times in the the last 40 years.  I think they're silly, but recognize that some guys will find them quite useful.  Especially our painters.

As for how to hook up the systainer  - that's easy:

The hard work already done 
https://www.festool.com/Products/Accessories/Pages/Detail.aspx?pid=200231&name=SYSTAINER-SYS-PowerHub-SYS-PH

Now, I don't think such a system would be a huge seller but it is a clever bit of tech worthy of a brand like Festool. Cordless sanders aren't new, FT can't hang their hat on being first to market.  Can't even sell us with their "it's part of a system" tag line. The battery platform doesn't work on anything else.    I do think it'll be a nice addition to the Festool lineup especially for punch out type work though.


As for these sanders being a huge hit , I have my doubts. And with the homeowner set ? Forget it.   I enquired with a source at the Home Depot and was told their Ridgid cordless sander which has been out a while is a dog in terms of sales.   If Homer can't market a sander costing 1/4 of the price to that market segment;  what chance does FT have ? 

« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 07:30 PM by antss »

Online Svar

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But then you'll need power the systainer. How? Plug it in? Then what's the advantage over regular charger?
The advantage is that you're not removing the battery to charge it. 
I'm sanding and then get interrupted, just lay the sander down on the Systainer and walk away, it's charging.
I'm sanding but then need to use the Domino, just lay the sander down on the Systainer and walk away, it's charging.
I'm sanding but then need to assemble some parts, just lay the sander down.............
It's easier to have a spare battery charging (at much greater rate) while you do all that. There is no time saved.

Online Svar

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The hard work already done 
https://www.festool.com/Products/Accessories/Pages/Detail.aspx?pid=200231&name=SYSTAINER-SYS-PowerHub-SYS-PH
That not hard work. That is just an extension cord in a conveniently huge box (Festool should roll out SYS 5 edition for hardcore fans). Hard work will be an actual reasonably priced inductive charger that can fill a power tool battery in a reasonable time.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 12:06 AM by Svar »

Online Cheese

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It's easier to have a spare battery charging (at much greater rate) while you do all that. There is no time saved.

El rongo...that's a matter of symantics, what's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander.
All my chargers are downstairs. This is strictly a matter of convenience. I'm not looking at energy saved or time saved...I'm talking about convenience...my convenience, no one else's.

Think about this, the ETS EC was released and I purchased it.
The Pro 5 was released and I purchased it.

These new cordless sanders have been released and I will not purchase any of them until the run time becomes realistic.  Re-batterying every 30 minutes is ridiculous, that may work for your work throughput but it's unacceptable for me.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love a cordless sander but the run time needs to be more than 30 minutes or................................................some other/another charging option needs to be implemented.

Enter alternative charging options, if an out of charger cradle option was available I'd be all over it.

Online Svar

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It's easier to have a spare battery charging (at much greater rate) while you do all that. There is no time saved.
All my chargers are downstairs. This is strictly a matter of convenience.
So you regular chargers are downstairs but your inductive charger will be by your side? It's still a charger and you still need to bring it with you. Why not bring a regular one instead? Inductive chargers are slow and will not make significant difference.

Online Cheese

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So you regular chargers are downstairs but your inductive charger will be by your side? It's still a charger and you still need to bring it with you. Why not bring a regular one instead? Inductive chargers are slow and will not make significant difference.

El righto...because I keep my tools in their Systainers. So, if I need the cordless sander, l go downstairs, pickup the Systainer it's in and go outside. I remove the sander, plug in the Systainer and start my day. Now 15 minutes into the job I need to go to the hardware store for additional items.  I just lay the sander down on the Systainer and just walk away, because it's charging.

I get the slow charging aspect of the inductive charger. My suggestion of inductance charging was based on convenience and pushing the technology further, not on my having recently  invented a game changing methodology of the same.

Kind of reminds me of Milwaukee when they came out with the first cordless drill in the late 60's early 70's. It was powered by a 35# lead acid battery that you had to carry around. Had Milwaukee listened to the cordless naysayers at the time, we might still be lugging around corded tools.

It's all about furthering the technology, which Festool prides themselves on and likes to have bragging rights on. This discussion could then be looked upon as an opportunity to leap frog the competition and make our lives easier. For me inductance charging makes my life easier, for you it obviously doesn't.

Offline Shane Holland

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Bump.

These will start shipping in just 3 short weeks along with the new PLANEX EASY Drywall Sander and SysLite STL 450 Surface Inspection Light.

PRE-ORDER Festool 18V Hybrid Sanders!
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Offline Gerald_D

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The inspection light looks very interesting to me (I currently use a couple SysLites or the Syslite Duo) but will wait and check it out this weekend at Connect.  Hope to meet many of you there.

Regards,
Gerald
Gerald
I have Festools- Big and Small and a few other tools

Offline ben_r_

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I wish they'd make a hybrid TS-55. I would love to have one track saw that could be both powered off AC and batteries. I hazve zero need for a cordless sander as I would never use a sander that wasnt connected to a vacuum, so it might as well be AC powered anyway.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 12:20 PM by ben_r_ »
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Offline leakyroof

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I wish they'd make a hybrid TS-55. I would love to have one track saw that could be both powered off AC and batteries. I hazve zero need for a cordless sander as I would never use a sander that wasnt connected to a vacuum, so it might as well be AC powered anyway.
  NOW that's an idea, a Hybrid Saw... [scratch chin] [scratch chin] [scratch chin] [scratch chin]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline ben_r_

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I wish they'd make a hybrid TS-55. I would love to have one track saw that could be both powered off AC and batteries. I hazve zero need for a cordless sander as I would never use a sander that wasnt connected to a vacuum, so it might as well be AC powered anyway.
  NOW that's an idea, a Hybrid Saw... [scratch chin] [scratch chin] [scratch chin] [scratch chin]
Makes a whole lot more sense to me than a hybrid sander does. The only other tool I can see being a good candidate for hybridization would be the jigsaw, but then I work out of my shop/garage, so I never have a need to go portable.
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Offline Brice Burrell

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I wish they'd make a hybrid TS-55. I would love to have one track saw that could be both powered off AC and batteries. I hazve zero need for a cordless sander as I would never use a sander that wasnt connected to a vacuum, so it might as well be AC powered anyway.

I'd like the idea.  It might be a little trickier since the TSC runs on two batteries.  An 18V AC adapter would be great for my HKC.   
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline ben_r_

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I wish they'd make a hybrid TS-55. I would love to have one track saw that could be both powered off AC and batteries. I hazve zero need for a cordless sander as I would never use a sander that wasnt connected to a vacuum, so it might as well be AC powered anyway.

I'd like the idea.  It might be a little trickier since the TSC runs on two batteries.  An 18V AC adapter would be great for my HKC.   
The TSC will run on 1 battery though and Im sure there is a way electrically they could allow the increased amperage when using one port connected to AC power. Its very easily done, they just dont want to or havent yet.
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Offline DB10

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The TSC does run on one battery but it isn't much fun!
 I also think the cordless sanders will be very useful, my Makita cordless sander gets plenty of use for quick jobs.

Offline rdr

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Just about to order a DTCS, can the Airstream charger be used with the batteries? having just decluttered my charging situation I'm hoping not to start adding to it straight away!

Offline Shane Holland

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Just about to order a DTCS, can the Airstream charger be used with the batteries? having just decluttered my charging situation I'm hoping not to start adding to it straight away!

@rdr, yes, these batteries are compatible with the AirStream SCA 8 charger.
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