Festool Owners Group

FESTOOL DISCUSSIONS => Sales & Dealer Area => Topic started by: Shane Holland on November 28, 2017, 12:08 AM

Title: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Shane Holland on November 28, 2017, 12:08 AM
Ok, guys... I know many of you have been wanting the MFS since it was discontinued. Well, now there's an option! The new Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig has many of the same capabilities and features as the Festool MFS, as well as improvements.

Order deadline December 18th. Expected to ship in April 2018.

Order the Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig (https://www.toolnut.com/hand-tools/measuring/woodpeckers-onetime-tools/woodpeckers-onetime-tool-variable-router-jig-mfs.html)

Order Accessories (https://www.toolnut.com/hand-tools/measuring/woodpeckers-onetime-tools.html)


https://youtu.be/5Viusc8JDhA
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Shane Holland on November 28, 2017, 09:23 AM
In case you missed it when this was posted late last night...  [smile]
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Welshdog on November 28, 2017, 04:28 PM
Looks like a decent substitute for the MFS. Just might be adding this to my Xmas list.
Wifey will buy me anything - that's how I got most of my Festool gear.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: ben_r_ on November 28, 2017, 04:41 PM
Yeaaaa..... I might be ordering this one. Trying to decide if Id ever have a need for any of the extensions pieces though.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Shane Holland on November 28, 2017, 05:45 PM
Looks like a decent substitute for the MFS. Just might be adding this to my Xmas list.
Wifey will buy me anything - that's how I got most of my Festool gear.

Sounds like a keeper.  [big grin] [thumbs up]
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: rvieceli on November 28, 2017, 05:50 PM
@Shane Holland

Hey Shane have you seen these things or can you get some more info please?

In the video I only see a Metric scale, my assumption is the imperial scale is on the reverse side. Right?

On the slots for the perpendicular portion of the tightening mechanism (the part closest to the bolt head), do those slots go all the way through the extrusion?

It would appear that Woodpecker is farming out most of the production for these to GSH in Strongville. Is that correct? I assume that Woodpecker might etch the scales since they are set up for it. Any insight?

Thanks

Ron
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Shane Holland on November 28, 2017, 06:58 PM
@rvieceli,

Hey, Ron. Thanks for the questions. Unfortunately, Woodpecjers does not send us a sample, so I would need to rely on the information provided along with the video and photos. Otherwise, I will gladly also reach out to Woodpeckers for answers to your questions.

I can see in the photos that there are metric scales on one side and imperial on the other. Also, I can clearly see that the slots do not go all the way through.

I don't have any information on where Woodpeckers sources components and I doubt they would share that information. I do know that they have full production capabilities in-house, but I suspect they got the extrusions from somewhere and milled and laser engraved them.

High resolution images attached for those interested.

Let me know if you need me to reach out to WP for further clarification on anything.

Thanks,
Shane
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: rvieceli on November 28, 2017, 07:04 PM
Thanks Shane
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: amt on November 28, 2017, 08:02 PM
Looks like a nice system, except the clamping solution.  They couldn't manage to get the f-clamp to slide in the slot in the extrusion?  If it can't then it's a botched design.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Svar on November 28, 2017, 08:22 PM
Looks like a nice system, except the clamping solution.  They couldn't manage to get the f-clamp to slide in the slot in the extrusion?  If it can't then it's a botched design.
Some f-clamps fit into slots, others may require just a bit of grinding on the sides. I have a pair of Bessey rail clamps, which fit as is.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Shane Holland on November 28, 2017, 08:24 PM
Mafell clamps are quite thin...


https://www.toolnut.com/mafell-205399-f-style-guide-rail-clamps-2-pack.html
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: ben_r_ on November 28, 2017, 08:54 PM
Looks like a nice system, except the clamping solution.  They couldn't manage to get the f-clamp to slide in the slot in the extrusion?  If it can't then it's a botched design.
They are trying to repurpose an existing design. The aluminum extrusions are not new ones, just modified from an existing rail they already sell.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: JD2720 on November 28, 2017, 08:55 PM
Is Tool Nut going to sell the 48" & 60" tracks also? I do not see them listed.


My mistake.
After looking at the Woodpecker site again. I see the 48" & 60" are standard Super Track.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: ben_r_ on November 28, 2017, 09:00 PM
Is Tool Nut going to sell the 48" & 60" tracks also? I do not see them listed.


My mistake.
After looking at the Woodpecker site again. I see the 48" & 60" are standard Super Track.
But dont they have the cuts in them to accept the OTTs mounting blocks/bolts?
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: greg mann on November 28, 2017, 09:44 PM
A slotted extrusion from the kit could latch onto the super track but no extrusion could be attached to the end of a super track, unless the slots were added to it. In other words one way but not the reverse. That said, a simple jig would make the slot milling into a super track easy with a router. I suppose you could use the Variable Router Jig itself set up for the slot milling.

It is just plain stupid to not make this a standard item, especially with the mfs no longer available.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: ben_r_ on November 28, 2017, 09:49 PM
It is just plain stupid to not make this a standard item, especially with the mfs no longer available.
Seriously.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: HarveyWildes on November 28, 2017, 10:45 PM
Is Tool Nut going to sell the 48" & 60" tracks also? I do not see them listed.


My mistake.
After looking at the Woodpecker site again. I see the 48" & 60" are standard Super Track.
But dont they have the cuts in them to accept the OTTs mounting blocks/bolts?

@Shane Holland (or someone) looks like a business opportunity to me :).
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Steven Owen on November 28, 2017, 11:08 PM
It is just plain stupid to not make this a standard item, especially with the mfs no longer available.
Seriously.

Given the number of sheer number of people that make cutting boards with inlay wells and inlays on drawer faces, it a bizarre decsion to make it an OTT.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: JD2720 on November 29, 2017, 08:21 AM
After looking closely at the videos, it looks like by making a simple template for the router, The slots could be easily be cut in the super tracks. That also opens up the option of making the tracks any length.

Taking that into account, this may be the first onetime tool I have purchased in many years. I have a complete Festool MFS, but this setup looks like it is a lot easier to setup. Plus the option of making custom length tracks.       
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Shane Holland on November 29, 2017, 04:24 PM
All, a new option has been added with longer profiles. The new kit will come with 18 x 32" profiles.

https://www.toolnut.com/hand-tools/measuring/woodpeckers-onetime-tools/woodpeckers-onetime-tool-variable-router-jig-18-x-32-mfs.html
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: jpmeunier on November 29, 2017, 04:53 PM
All, a new option has been added with longer profiles. The new kit will come with 18 x 32" profiles.

https://www.toolnut.com/hand-tools/measuring/woodpeckers-onetime-tools/woodpeckers-onetime-tool-variable-router-jig-18-x-32-mfs.html

Awesome, should I order now or wait for more to be added [big grin]
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: ben_r_ on November 29, 2017, 09:18 PM
All, a new option has been added with longer profiles. The new kit will come with 18 x 32" profiles.

https://www.toolnut.com/hand-tools/measuring/woodpeckers-onetime-tools/woodpeckers-onetime-tool-variable-router-jig-18-x-32-mfs.html

Awesome, should I order now or wait for more to be added [big grin]
Ill be waiting. Really no reason to "get in early". Just get in before the deadline, then wait your six months.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Shane Holland on November 29, 2017, 09:21 PM
If you guys are interested in some other Frankensteined together kit, let me know your thoughts. I can pitch it to Woodpeckers and see what they say. I communicate regularly with the guy that runs the show there, El Presidente.  [smile]
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: bnaboatbuilder on November 29, 2017, 09:59 PM
How about telling him to make this available ALL THE TIME and not the silly one time tool dog and pony show. It's as if they don't understand that tools which are available all the time can actually make them money all the time. They have their head in the sand. They don't really make tools to be honest, they make toys and collector items. That's the real business they are in doing the OTT. It's an insult to woodworking, building, crafting communities. If they want to make products and sell them all the time like every other business does, then the products will become actual tools. I own some of their products, but have lost most respect for them as a company. They have the machinery to make anything, anytime.

If you guys are interested in some other Frankensteined together kit, let me know your thoughts. I can pitch it to Woodpeckers and see what they say. I communicate regularly with the guy that runs the show there, El Presidente.  [smile]
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: ScoFF on November 29, 2017, 11:00 PM
So much cheaper than buying the Festool ones imported from eBay Germany.  Also the mfs700 longest rail is only 27" so the Woodpecker 32" is even better. Hopefully the set screws won't strip as easy. 
I'll be getting the 18x32 along with a pair of 32" rails.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: JD2720 on November 30, 2017, 05:02 AM
If you guys are interested in some other Frankensteined together kit, let me know your thoughts. I can pitch it to Woodpeckers and see what they say. I communicate regularly with the guy that runs the show there, El Presidente.  [smile]

Since this is a limited run, why not include the 48" & 60" tracks with markings & slots?
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Cheese on November 30, 2017, 08:39 AM
Since this is a limited run, why not include the 48" & 60" tracks with markings & slots?

I agree with this idea 100%.  [thumbs up]    This would be a lot more elegant solution.

One of the big disappointments with the 2000mm MFS rails is that they are not laser marked.  [sad] [mad]

This is one of the reasons I contacted Woodpeckers to try to figure out how the 48" & 60" Super tracks are being integrated into the VRJ. The 18" & 32" rails are a refined aspect of the VRJ. The 48" & 60" rails seem to be just afterthoughts.

See reply 22.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/woodpeckers-new-one-time-tool-mfs-clone/msg530552/?topicseen#msg530552
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: jpmeunier on November 30, 2017, 10:00 AM
Sounds like a kit with (2) 18, (2) 32, (2) 48, and (2) 60. Also don't make them a OTT. [smile]
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: HarveyWildes on November 30, 2017, 10:32 AM
Couldn't resist the 18-32 combo...
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Shane Holland on November 30, 2017, 11:19 AM
So, Woodpeckers said they could probably do longer extrusions, *but* they would not be marked with scales. Seems like it wouldn't be an ideal solution.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: mwildt on November 30, 2017, 11:24 AM
Probably don't have a laser big enough to make the markings, which is fair I guess.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Svar on November 30, 2017, 11:38 AM
Probably don't have a laser big enough to make the markings, which is fair I guess.
When I was planning to make my own "MFS" from WP extrusions (well, scratch that now) I was going to mill a shallow (0.5mm) groove close to the edge and place self adhesive measuring tape into it.

P.S. Shaper Origin with engraving bit or a laser would be handy here.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: live4ever on November 30, 2017, 11:51 AM
Probably don't have a laser big enough to make the markings, which is fair I guess.
When I was planning to make my own "MFS" from WP extrusions (well, scratch that now) I was going to mill a shallow (0.5mm) groove close to the edge and place self adhesive measuring tape into it.

P.S. Shaper Origin with engraving bit or a laser would be handy here.

Ditto.  Still deciding if I want to do that and just purchase the 18x18 kit with extra connectors or go whole hog and get the 18-32.  I have a few applications for which I'd want (4) 32" tracks and that will get pricey...
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: live4ever on November 30, 2017, 11:55 AM
Also, the "angle stops" or whatever they call them (right angle brackets) in the FT MFS kit are pretty handy.  I know it's trivial to fabricate oneself, but does WP have a bracket that fits their super track?  They must...
If so, they ought to include it in the kit.  I know, I'm dreaming.  [tongue]
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: HarveyWildes on November 30, 2017, 12:30 PM
I try to avoid measuring or scales whenever possible, so the lack of a scale would not bother me.

I'm not sure what the use case for a 60" length would be - perhaps a 4' routed dado across a plywood panel?
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Michael Kellough on November 30, 2017, 12:37 PM
I try to avoid measuring or scales whenever possible, so the lack of a scale would not bother me.

I'm not sure what the use case for a 60" length would be - perhaps a 4' routed dado across a plywood panel?

Someone was interested in using it for fluting.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Cheese on November 30, 2017, 01:00 PM
Someone was interested in using it for fluting.

That was me... [big grin]...think multiple fluting in columns or pilasters.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Bob D. on November 30, 2017, 03:14 PM
Does anyone really trust those engraved markings? Do you blindly use the
scales on your MFS and not bother to check with your trusty calibrated rule?
I have never used a MFS and don't have the VRJ yet (on order) but I know
that I will use those marking as rough setup marks and set everything with a
scale or rule that I will use to make most of the layout for a project that I can.

Isn't it better to base all your work off one scale/rule. If you use two or more
you run the risk of all your measurements being accurate to the instrument
(rule or scale) that they were laid out to. Different measuring devices made
from different materials all with varying COE made to different levels of
accuracy just spells trouble. Use one to make all (or as many) measurements
as possible is what I was taught. Yeah its wood and it moves I know that but
why add to the mix when you can eliminate it by using one instrument to do
the majority of your measuring.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: greg mann on November 30, 2017, 05:38 PM
My guess is the markings are not on the longer extrusions, Festool  or Woodpeckers, because they don’t fit in their marking machines and would be cost prohibitive to acquire machines to fit.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Brice Burrell on November 30, 2017, 06:01 PM
Does anyone really trust those engraved markings?

The Festool MFS marking are accurate.  Very few people do woodworking to the kind of tolerances that different measuring tools will be a problem, assuming your measuring tools are reasonably accurate, and not some super cheap stuff.   
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Svar on November 30, 2017, 06:35 PM
Does anyone really trust those engraved markings? Do you blindly use the
scales on your MFS and not bother to check with your trusty calibrated rule?
Just place two rules against each other and check. Less than 0.5 mm over a meter is fine with me for carpentry. And it is rarely that bad. You are not building engines with those MFS, are you?
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: ScoFF on November 30, 2017, 06:42 PM
It looks like the sides with the groove for the fastener washer can fit any super track edge that doesn't have the routed groove.  Am I right?
So the stiles don't need the routes groove, just the rails from the kit.
If that's the case it would help me plan this OTT purchase knowing that I can get any super track stile later?
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: rvieceli on November 30, 2017, 09:13 PM
@ScoFF the problem arising from the fact the longer extrusions don’t  have the slots is that you can’t change the width of the template. It will always be 18 inches or 32 inches wide
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Cheese on November 30, 2017, 09:23 PM
Does anyone really trust those engraved markings? Do you blindly use the
scales on your MFS and not bother to check with your trusty calibrated rule?

As Brice mentioned, the markings are spot on. The photo below compares the MFS 400 to a Starrett metric scale.

As an aside, I also checked the MFS 400 with a Woodpeckers 50" rule and the results were the same.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Cheese on November 30, 2017, 09:45 PM
Probably don't have a laser big enough to make the markings, which is fair I guess.

I’m not so sure, I own a Woodpeckers 50.5” rule and it’s laser engraved. Unless I’m missing something, it seems that a 48” Supertrack would fit within the physical constraints of the laser marker...possibly even the 60” track. We don’t know what we don’t know.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: HarveyWildes on December 01, 2017, 09:47 AM
Someone was interested in using it for fluting.

That was me... [big grin]...think multiple fluting in columns or pilasters.

Nice idea - hadn't thought of that, but now that I have, it raises all sorts of other interesting possibilities for routing objects that are not flat.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Svar on December 01, 2017, 11:07 AM
Someone was interested in using it for fluting.
That was me... [big grin]...think multiple fluting in columns or pilasters.
Nice idea - hadn't thought of that, but now that I have, it raises all sorts of other interesting possibilities for routing objects that are not flat.
Realigning MFS for every cut on pilaster will be awkward. I think a simple edge guide will work better.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Cheese on December 01, 2017, 11:34 AM
Realigning MFS for every cut on pilaster will be awkward. I think a simple edge guide will work better.

When I made some trim with parallel fluting, I just cut ply shims that would fit inside the MFS aperture. Install shim, route, remove/install new shim, route...really simple for repetitive cuts.

The photo of the HVAC vent below is a variation on that same theme. Ply shims fit in the aperture of the MFS and limit the routed length rather than the routed width/placement.

Also note the way the MFS is configured. In this application, I needed to easily/quickly change the horizontal placement of the vent slots which this assembly does. Route vent slot, loosen vertical rails, move over 14mm, tighten, reinsert router stops, route next set of vent slots.

This is another reason I really like the graduations on the MFS, it's very easy to loosen and move the correct distance...so fast and
accurate. No ruler is needed.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: HarveyWildes on December 01, 2017, 12:38 PM
When I made some trim with parallel fluting, I just cut ply shims that would fit inside the MFS aperture. Install shim, route, remove/install new shim, route...really simple for repetitive cuts.

The photo of the HVAC vent below is a variation on that same theme. Ply shims fit in the aperture of the MFS and limit the routed length rather than the routed width/placement.

Also note the way the MFS is assembled. In this application, I needed to easily/quickly change the placement of the of the vent slots which this assembly does. Route vent slot, loosen vertical rails, move over 14mm, tighten & reinsert router stops, route next set of vent slots.

This is another reason I really like the graduations on the MFS, it's very easy to loosen and move...so fast and accurate.

The graduations are useful to a point, but I like your use of shims for repeatability even more, esp. in the second picture.  Why not make those shims do double duty and use them to set the width as well?  That would be my first inclination, so I'm interested to hear why you use them to limit the length rather than the width.

Another "shim" example - if you're doing a single pass with a router bit, as you might when routing a flute, why not use the guide bushing to set the width?  In your HVAC example, for instance, why not move one rail to the scale setting, and then use the guide bushing to set the other rail?

I'm generally skeptical of using measurements to get precision, since the setting is only as precise as you can set the jig to the scale.  For some things it doesn't matter, but for joinery where 100ths of an inch matter, I'm not sure I trust either my scales or my eyes (even with glasses :)) to get it right - even more if I want a mark between the scale markings.  For flutes, it also seems like it might be important to get the width of the flute and the distance between flutes to at least within a couple of hundredths.

It's not like I don't use scales, but I do tend to use them to get in the ballpark (maybe around 1/16-1/32" at best) rather than to get high precision.  So I'm not trying to rag on the use of scales, just trying to understand in more detail the tradeoffs and judgements that you apply when doing this kind of work, in order to make my jigs more useful and easy to set up.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Cheese on December 01, 2017, 01:40 PM
The graduations are useful to a point, but I like your use of shims for repeatability even more, esp. in the second picture.  Why not make those shims do double duty and use them to set the width as well?  That would be my first inclination, so I'm interested to hear why you use them to limit the length rather than the width.

In this example, I was making 12 HVAC vents that were 5/16" thick. For ease of a repetitive and accurate processes, I decided to hold the lateral placement of the grooves with the secured MFS rails and use the ply shims for only length placement. I could have done exactly as you say and do double duty with the shims. It's just a matter of personal taste. The work flow was to insert a 3/4" blank into the fixture, insert length shims, route 1st pass at say .170" depth, plunge an additional .170" route 2nd pass. Remove blank from fixture, flip end-for-end, reinsert in fixture, reinsert the shims and repeat that process. Then repeat this entire process for the next 5 blanks. So only having to worry about 2 small shims in this situation was a bonus. Also if you place multiple shims against each other, they can buckle a little bit and muck up the process.


Another "shim" example - if you're doing a single pass with a router bit, as you might when routing a flute, why not use the guide bushing to set the width?  In your HVAC example, for instance, why not move one rail to the scale setting, and then use the guide bushing to set the other rail?

You're right...that's exactly what I did. However having markings on the top and bottom horizontal rails was extremely handy. Those 2 horizontal rails are screwed to the fixture while the vertical rails are only locked in with the fasteners. So, unlock both vertical rails, move the LH rail 14mm and lock down, insert top & bottom shims, move RH rail to contact shims and then lock down. The shims were 11mm wide, while the guide bushing was 10.8mm wide.

I'm generally skeptical of using measurements to get precision, since the setting is only as precise as you can set the jig to the scale.  For some things it doesn't matter, but for joinery where 100ths of an inch matter, I'm not sure I trust either my scales or my eyes (even with glasses :)) to get it right - even more if I want a mark between the scale markings.  For flutes, it also seems like it might be important to get the width of the flute and the distance between flutes to at least within a couple of hundredths.

Again Harvey I agree. I tend to use hard stops whenever I can. The item may not be exactly some desired dimension, say 1.000", however, when using stops, it will consistently be whatever that dimension turns out to be, say 1.006", every single time.
I think you could get by with a variable distance of .020"-.030" between flutes without the eye picking up on it. The width of the flutes as well as the distance between flutes as well as the color (if they're painted) would all come into the equation. [big grin]

It's not like I don't use scales, but I do tend to use them to get in the ballpark (maybe around 1/16-1/32" at best) rather than to get high precision.  So I'm not trying to rag on the use of scales, just trying to understand in more detail the tradeoffs and judgements that you apply when doing this kind of work, in order to make my jigs more useful and easy to set up.

No ragging implied...we're just exchanging thoughts. [big grin]
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: HarveyWildes on December 01, 2017, 01:57 PM
...<lots of discussion>...

No ragging implied...we're just exchanging thoughts. [big grin]

Thanks for the discussion - it was useful.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: yetihunter on December 01, 2017, 11:17 PM
How about telling him to make this available ALL THE TIME and not the silly one time tool dog and pony show. It's as if they don't understand that tools which are available all the time can actually make them money all the time. They have their head in the sand. They don't really make tools to be honest, they make toys and collector items. That's the real business they are in doing the OTT. It's an insult to woodworking, building, crafting communities. If they want to make products and sell them all the time like every other business does, then the products will become actual tools. I own some of their products, but have lost most respect for them as a company. They have the machinery to make anything, anytime.

If you guys are interested in some other Frankensteined together kit, let me know your thoughts. I can pitch it to Woodpeckers and see what they say. I communicate regularly with the guy that runs the show there, El Presidente.  [smile]

I can think of a few reasons why they do the one time tool thing.

Usually, their one time tools don't have a large market.
This month's product being a definite example.

Technically, their customers are the retailers, which aren't going to want to
order things that they might sell one of...ever. 

They also probably don't have the cash nor warehouse space to make these products part of a hard line.     
I've never purchased a one time tool, but I'm guessing either the customer or the retailer pays up front. 

Having manufacturing equipment doesn't necessarily mean it's setup to crank out
a specific product.   Also, there are the employees who do the handwork.  I presume that some are experts that can handle any new task while others require training and a comprehensive set of instructions.

Finally, the woodworking hobbiest market, specifically woodpeckers customers, has a large demographic of older or retired persons with more than this week's paycheck in their bank account.   I can't be depended on to have savings set aside to dip into
if I find out I have a month to purchase these One Time Tool offerings.   
However, a large amount of the market does.   

So, it may be annoying, but, it's definitely a model that makes sense.
I'm confident that the other option would be to never offer these items at all.

Personally, I find the items that they always sell to be the items I always use.
Meanwhile, the limited items, I find to appeal to a limited audience.   

It is what it is. 
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Welshdog on December 07, 2017, 03:22 PM

So, it may be annoying, but, it's definitely a model that makes sense.
I'm confident that the other option would be to never offer these items at all.

 

Doesn't Bridge City Tools do the same thing?  Small runs that are eventually discontinued.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Welshdog on December 07, 2017, 03:28 PM
Looks like a nice system, except the clamping solution.  They couldn't manage to get the f-clamp to slide in the slot in the extrusion?  If it can't then it's a botched design.
They are trying to repurpose an existing design. The aluminum extrusions are not new ones, just modified from an existing rail they already sell.

They ought to offer a modified F-clamp along with their two-part clamp system. They could either buy and modify f-clamps themselves or partner with a vendor to have some made.  The system they are offering is awkward at best.  Still might get one though . . .
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: RKA on December 07, 2017, 03:48 PM
@Shane Holland
I wish they made replacement rails available outside the production cycle.  I realize that is a departure from their OTT model, but with certain tools it's a sticking point.  I don't like banking on the idea that they might have something buried in a drawer or box somewhere if I call and ask.  I'm usually obsessively careful with my tools, but things happen.  I've dinged an MFS template early on, unfortunately that was after they discontinued them.   [sad]  Anyway, at least in the case of this OTT offering, having access to replacement rails would be nice.  And since they are a modified version of something they already offer in regular inventory, maybe there is a way to make that happen?
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: RobBob on December 07, 2017, 03:53 PM
Good old @erock is using 8020.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]

Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Svar on December 07, 2017, 04:02 PM
Good old @erock is using 8020.
Unfortunately the extrusion is 25 mm thick, which takes away from your cutting depth, and the slots won't fit a standard rail clamp.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Shane Holland on December 07, 2017, 04:48 PM
@RKA according to Woodpeckers, spare parts should not be a problem for this OTT. And, they plan to probably run it again in the next 18 months. Obviously making it not-so-OneTIME.  [big grin]
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: RKA on December 07, 2017, 05:17 PM
The first part is good news, thanks Shane!  The second part was a given (in my mind) since I suspect it will be received reasonably well and nobody else is offering a similar mousetrap.  Thank you for following up!
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Cheese on December 07, 2017, 09:58 PM
Good old @erock is using 8020

That’s always been problematic. It’s certainly doable but not very convenient when you have to attend to the extra amount of real estate that’s necessary for router bit length and the issues of clamping.

I was going to try to use the 2012 or 25-5013 profiles because they're only 1/2" tall. However, clamping and joining profiles together became an issue.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: RobBob on December 08, 2017, 08:33 AM
Good old @erock is using 8020.
Unfortunately the extrusion is 25 mm thick, which takes away from your cutting depth, and the slots won't fit a standard rail clamp.

Thanks for pointing out those two issues.  I would not have thought of that.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Slicelive on December 12, 2017, 10:50 AM
Watched the video for both Woodpeckers and Festool. Festool had a balance add on for the router to prevent tilting is there one for the woodpecker version? The Woodpecker video only really shows it being used with the rails close together to prevent tilt.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Cheese on December 12, 2017, 10:56 AM
Watched the video for both Woodpeckers and Festool. Festool had a balance add on for the router to prevent tilting is there one for the woodpecker version? The Woodpecker video only really shows it being used with the rails close together to prevent tilt.

No...I contacted Woodpeckers and they said the "stabilizer" was not in the cards. If you'll be using a Festool router though, you could just modify the Festool item.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: TSO Products on December 12, 2017, 01:31 PM
Laser engraving in a commercial environment has its limits in the bed size of the equipment - thus the dimensions of the workpiece have a practical size limit.

Hans
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Svar on December 12, 2017, 01:44 PM
Laser engraving in a commercial environment has its limits in the bed size of the equipment - thus the dimensions of the workpiece have a practical size limit.
Hans
Just attach a laser to Shaper Origin and hire a guy to push it around 8 to 5 every day.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: jpmeunier on December 12, 2017, 02:53 PM
Could the 466354 parts of the MFS be used to make the woodpecker version of a circle jig?
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Cheese on December 13, 2017, 10:07 AM
Could the 466354 parts of the MFS be used to make the woodpecker version of a circle jig?

My guess is yes, however it's tough to be definitive without having a Woodpeckers rail to examine. I'd give it a definite yes if the question is "Can the 466354 be modified to fit the Woodpecker rail".
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Shane Holland on December 17, 2017, 06:16 PM
Bump.

Order deadline is tomorrow, Monday, Dec. 18th.  [wink]

Order the Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig (https://www.toolnut.com/hand-tools/measuring/woodpeckers-onetime-tools.html)
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: demographic on December 17, 2017, 06:36 PM
MFS discontinued?

Can still buy em over HERE (https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Festool-Mfs-700-4014549034019-Routing-Template)
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Shane Holland on December 17, 2017, 06:44 PM
Festool discontinued the MFS in the U.S.
Title: Re: New Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig / MFS (US)
Post by: Shane Holland on December 18, 2017, 08:37 PM
Order deadline is today, Monday, Dec. 18th.

Order the Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool Variable Router Jig (https://www.toolnut.com/hand-tools/measuring/woodpeckers-onetime-tools.html)


https://youtu.be/5Viusc8JDhA