Author Topic: One for the Aussies...  (Read 348159 times)

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Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2646
Re: One for the Aussies...New ACCC submission from Tooltechnic. [Festool]
« Reply #990 on: February 20, 2018, 02:00 AM »
The ACCC has today informed me that Tooltechnic [Festool's Australian representative/distributor] has applied for renewel of their permission to engage in retail price maintenance.

Some will know that in February 2016,  some FOG members and I prepared a document proposing that this should not have been originally granted.

Despite their claims, since engageing in retail price maintenance, Tooltechnic have not provided the Australian Consumer with many of the benefits provided to Festool consumers in other countries. Eg. Tool insurance as in UK, and collection of tools needing warranty repair directly from the consumer rather than dealer.

However I am no longer in a position to coordinate or indeed directly participate in any response to Tootronic's new proposal. If any Australian FOG member wishes to PM me, I can provide you with copies of our last  submission [minus the names of those who participated] and Tooltechnic's new proposal.

Please note that any submission is due to the ACCC by Feb 27th.  [eek]

Stephen

-----------------

Dear Sir/Madam
 
The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (the ACCC) has received a notification from Tooltechnic Systems (Aust) Pty Ltd, which is proposing to engage in resale price maintenance (RPM) with regard to its Festool and Fein power tools.
The ACCC invites you to comment on the arrangement.
 
A copy of the RPM notification and supporting submission is attached. A full copy of the RPM notification and its attachments will be available on the ACCC’s website tomorrow: www.accc.gov.au
 
If you intend to provide a submission in relation to this RPM notification, please do so by 27 February 2018.
 
If you wish to discuss any aspect of this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me on (03) 9290 1835 or adjudication@accc.gov.au.
 
Regards,
 
Tess Macrae

Assistant Director | Adjudication | Merger and Authorisation Review
Australian Competition & Consumer Commission
Level 17 | 2 Lonsdale Street Melbourne, VIC 3000 
T: + 61 3 9290 1835
www.accc.gov.au
The ACCC acknowledges the traditional owners and custodians of Country throughout Australia and recognises their continuing connection to the land, sea and community. We pay our respects to them and their cultures; and to their Elders past, present and future.
 
 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 02:05 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Grakat

  • Posts: 223
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #991 on: February 20, 2018, 03:28 AM »
@Untidy Shop

I am happy to prepare and submit a submission to the ACCC in regards to retail price maintenance. If I can get a copy of the old submission that would be great. Also, if anyone has any specific examples where they believe that the service they received was not what was promised with RPM can you also send these through to me so they can be used as examples.

Regards
Graham
Regards
Graham

Festool ETS150/3, TS55, CT26, DF500+ Domino set, PS300, HKC55, RO150

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2646
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #992 on: February 20, 2018, 04:43 AM »
@Untidy Shop

I am happy to prepare and submit a submission to the ACCC in regards to retail price maintenance. If I can get a copy of the old submission that would be great. Also, if anyone has any specific examples where they believe that the service they received was not what was promised with RPM can you also send these through to me so they can be used as examples.

Regards
Graham

@Grakat

Thanks Graham,

I appreciate that you are able to do this, and will send you the relevant info. Can you PM me your email address?
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline andy412

  • Posts: 2
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #993 on: February 20, 2018, 06:01 AM »
is there any festool dealers in the UK or us that will ship to Australia?? feel free to pm me if you have any info
only after a certain accessory that is crazy priced in aus but seems to be less than half in the uk, not after any actual tools.

cheers!

Offline tdc

  • Posts: 5
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #994 on: February 20, 2018, 08:27 AM »
The Aussie distributor’s lack of customer support and blatant price gouging is why 90percent of my festool purchases have been online from overseas.

Am disappointed that Festool HQ allow this, but, business is business.

Offline andy412

  • Posts: 2
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #995 on: February 20, 2018, 09:41 AM »
The Aussie distributor’s lack of customer support and blatant price gouging is why 90percent of my festool purchases have been online from overseas.

Am disappointed that Festool HQ allow this, but, business is business.

Whats your business name?

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2646
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #996 on: February 20, 2018, 10:36 PM »
Tooltechnics have applied to the ACCC to continue retail price maintenance.

If you were a signatory to a 2016 Consumer submission to the ACCC, I have sent you two emails just now. Please PM me with your new email adress if you have not received these emails.

« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 10:40 PM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline bryan1982

  • Posts: 128
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #997 on: February 21, 2018, 12:24 AM »
I just rang Tess and spoke with her about my concerns.
I encourage and aussie to do the same give her a call.

Cheers

Bryan

Offline eddomak

  • Posts: 298
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #998 on: February 21, 2018, 08:53 PM »
I just sent her an email:

Dear Ms Mcrae,

I am writing in response to a notifcation that Tooltechnic Systems has once again applied for Resale Price Maintenance for Festool products.

I believe the original was a trial, and that the ACCC would review the situation after that point. I have personally purchased quite a few Festool tools over the years, and was very disappointed to see the original granting of the fixed prices.

In my experience as a consumer it has:
1)  significantly decreased competition for the consumers - dealers have not been as motivated to serve the customer and "win the sale" with better prices than their competitors

2) Had not effect on offering better service

3) Been very detrimental to the sales of spare parts and consumerables - which you would expect should be exempt from such price fixing as by nature they do not require servicing

4) Let the distributor set whatever price they choose

5) Encouraged Australian consumers to purchase the same tools and accessories from overseas suppliers

Please do NOT grant the RPM agreement as it seems to just harm the consumer. Tooltechnic must be able to demonstrate in real quantifiable terms how their RPM has benefited the consumer and the industry over the period it has been in place, and unless they can do so then this agreement must not be allowed to continue.

Thankyou for hearing my submission,

Offline eddomak

  • Posts: 298
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #999 on: February 22, 2018, 09:42 PM »
I just received a reply from ACCC to ask if I would be happy to have my submission uploaded and listed.

Meanwhile, I wonder if it might be useful for people to address the criteria that the Resale Price Maintenance (RPM) was issued under in the first place (which I quote below).


"In this case, the ACCC accepts that there is a market failure caused by the free riding of some Festool retailers. Free riding occurs where some retailers can gain the benefit of, or free ride on, the services offered by other retailers. This creates a risk that retailers who do offer pre- and post-sales services will not achieve a sufficient return on the sales of their products to continue to provide these retail services.

Given the highly differentiated nature of Festool products, the ACCC considers that resale price maintenance is likely to limit free riding by encouraging Festool retailers to offer better services to attract customers. This will allow some customers to make more informed decisions in purchasing trade quality power tools and to continue to have the choice of a premium trade quality power tool accompanied by a high level of post-sales services."


1) Highly differentiated product - yes, it is a higher standard, but as recent threads have commented, is there a massive difference between the Festool products and competitors recently that would require additional sales/service?

2) Making more informed decisions - see above on whether much more "information" is required over any other brand, that would sway you to Festool?

2) High level post-sale service - Is Festool / Tooltechnic post sale service any better than any other brand since the RPM was introduced?

Anyway, hope this gives you some things to mull over and perhaps something for ACCC to consider as well.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2646
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #1000 on: February 23, 2018, 02:46 AM »
@eddomak

See PM.
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2646
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #1001 on: February 23, 2018, 05:06 AM »
@eddomak

Thanks for making contact, two emails sent.
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2646
Re: One for the Aussies...Reminder Feb27th.
« Reply #1002 on: February 25, 2018, 11:46 PM »

Reminder that submissions to the ACCC are due tomorrow, Feb27th. AEST.
___________________




Dear Sir/Madam
 
The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (the ACCC) has received a notification from Tooltechnic Systems (Aust) Pty Ltd, which is proposing to engage in resale price maintenance (RPM) with regard to its Festool and Fein power tools.
The ACCC invites you to comment on the arrangement.
 
A copy of the RPM notification and supporting submission is attached. A full copy of the RPM notification and its attachments will be available on the ACCC’s website tomorrow: www.accc.gov.au
 
If you intend to provide a submission in relation to this RPM notification, please do so by 27 February 2018.
 
If you wish to discuss any aspect of this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me on (03) 9290 1835 or adjudication@accc.gov.au.
 
Regards,
 
Tess Macrae

Assistant Director | Adjudication | Merger and Authorisation Review
Australian Competition & Consumer Commission
Level 17 | 2 Lonsdale Street Melbourne, VIC 3000 
T: + 61 3 9290 1835
www.accc.gov.au
The ACCC acknowledges the traditional owners and custodians of Country throughout Australia and recognises their continuing connection to the land, sea and community. We pay our respects to them and their cultures; and to their Elders past, present and future.
 
 
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If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #1003 on: February 27, 2018, 03:41 AM »
To all Aussie Festool (and other premium tool) buyers ...

Operating a business in Australia that imports high quality products from overseas and distributes them through a local retail network is NOT VIABLE.

The only way to make a profit from the model is to rape the local market on price and that's simply not ethical. I've experimented with a premium product (CADEX) and I was unable to land a product locally and offer it through a retailer and break even - let alone make a profit.

Part of the problem is the way the Australian government hits you on importing ... it'll always be cheaper to perform a one-off buy and use a service like Shipito to get by bad international shipping rates and "grey" limitations. The other part of the problem is the greedy expectation of the importer/distributor to make a fat profit.

Service and warranty are an issue for certain ... don't jump into a new product and buy it from OS on launch, wait till the dust settles.

... just my 2 cents ;)


Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 731
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #1004 on: February 27, 2018, 09:43 AM »
Part of the problem is the way the Australian government hits you on importing ...

Hi Kev - Normally tariffs are imposed to protect local production.  Is the Australian government protecting any local companies with high tariffs on Festool or other power tool manufacturers?  I tried to look online for power tool manufacturers in Australia, but could only find a list of companies who sell their power tools there.  I know that there are some good hand tool companies because I have one or two of their items.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2646
Re: One for the Aussies... Old/Vintage Tools
« Reply #1005 on: February 27, 2018, 06:34 PM »
Selling old/Vintage Tools

Looking for some recommended Australian specialist sites in old handtools.

I am considering selling some of my  inherited handtools. Some are in excellent condition, some need restoration. Includes drills and planes.


Thanks
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Grakat

  • Posts: 223
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #1006 on: March 04, 2018, 05:56 AM »
There is one site is called The Tool Exchange, and there is another group that specialises in doing old tool swap meets. I think I have seen them on Facebook but the name escapes me.
Regards
Graham

Festool ETS150/3, TS55, CT26, DF500+ Domino set, PS300, HKC55, RO150

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2646
Re: One for the Aussies.../Festool Color Formula
« Reply #1007 on: April 23, 2018, 06:23 AM »
I have published Festool Color formulas elsewhere on the FOG in the past. However due to base product differences these have probably not been applicable outside Australia.

At work last weekend I revised, via a calibrator, my formula for Festool Blue/Black. Sample was  again taken from the case of -

https://www.festool.com.au/products/accessories-and-consumables/drilling-fastening/drill/drill-bits/high-speed-steel-twist-drill-bits/310mm-hss-drill-bit-centrotec-holder-set_495128?ObjectPath=/Shops/tooltechnic/Products/495128

Extra Bright Base - 1 litre of Dulux Oil Based High Gloss Enamal.

CV 1Y 26.5N
M  1Y 27.25N
TT 0Y  7.25N
W  0Y. 2.25N





 
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 08:55 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline dr.r.lam

  • Posts: 5
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #1008 on: June 26, 2018, 08:28 PM »
Hi AussieFOGs!


New to the forums.
Looking to buy some Festool kit.
I'm Sydney-based.


Any recommendations on online retailers (like JustTools or IdealTools?
Is there any benefit to buying from Festool direct?


Reading this thread, it seems we are completely gouged on price.


Am I correct to assume that the warranty is covered by the dealer first, and then Festool? Or do all warranty issues go through Festool directly?


Thank you very much.
R

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2646
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #1009 on: June 26, 2018, 10:05 PM »

@dr.r.lam

Welcome to th FOG.

I can not speak highly enough of Just Tools, they are my dealer for in shop and on line sales. However as you live in Sydney you may want to consider a Sydney based dealer. Northern Abrasives has in the past received favourable comment here. Your choice of dealer is important, not only for product knowledge but because of any warranty issues.

Yes we are price gouged in Australia and we do not receive the level of after sales service enjoyed in NA and Europe. See elsware on this thread.

There are some great Festool tools such as the track saws, domino, the routers and most sanders. In some cases, such as heavy duty drills, look elsewhere at Metabo and Makita etc,.

Enjoy your new Festools.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 10:08 PM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Grakat

  • Posts: 223
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #1010 on: June 28, 2018, 12:06 AM »
@dr.r.lam

Welcome to the FOG.

I can echo the sentiments above re Northern Abrasives, I too have heard good things about them.

In regards to purchasing Festool there is no difference in price between online sales and store sales, this is due to a "price fixing" deal that Tooltechnic systems have with the ACCC.

There is a benefit in forming a relationship with a premium festool retailer so that you can learn how best to use the tool. For some tools I would argue its not necessary, however other tools like the Domino certainly can benefit from some hands on training.
Regards
Graham

Festool ETS150/3, TS55, CT26, DF500+ Domino set, PS300, HKC55, RO150

Offline dr.r.lam

  • Posts: 5
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #1011 on: June 28, 2018, 09:04 PM »
Thank you @Untidy Shop and @Grakat for your recommendations.


I will certainly get in touch with Northern Abrasives and try to order through them.


Best regards,
R

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2646
Re: One for the Aussies... Green Shed No More.
« Reply #1012 on: July 10, 2018, 02:53 AM »
Last Friday I officially retired as a team member at the 'Green Shed' [code for a major Australian Hardware Chain].

This means I am no longer 'restrained' by the 'Green Sheds' social media policies. Hence I can be a little less restrained regarding subjects and  comments on the FOG.  [eek]

And naturally, @Peter Halle , my comments will be within the FOG guidelines!  [big grin] [smile]
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 04:40 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline dr.r.lam

  • Posts: 5
Re: One for the Aussies... Green Shed No More.
« Reply #1013 on: July 10, 2018, 03:05 AM »
Last Friday I officially retired as a team member at the 'Green Shed' [/size][/font][code for a major Australian Hardware Chain].

Congratulations!!!

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #1014 on: July 10, 2018, 06:05 AM »
Congratulations!

Offline Grakat

  • Posts: 223
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #1015 on: July 10, 2018, 06:41 AM »
@Untidy Shop

Congratulations mate. Was it an untidy green shed lol.

Hope it's a long retirement. Have fun.
Regards
Graham

Festool ETS150/3, TS55, CT26, DF500+ Domino set, PS300, HKC55, RO150

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2646
Re: One for the Aussies...
« Reply #1016 on: July 10, 2018, 09:02 AM »
Thanks for your thoughts -  @dr.r.lam @Peter Halle  @Grakat

@Untidy Shop

. . . . .  Was it an untidy green shed lol.

[big grin] @Grakat
No it was a very tidy Green Shed!  [smile]
It received the Victorian  Green Shed of the year in 2017. Great team to work with.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 09:04 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values