Author Topic: Parf Dogs  (Read 111635 times)

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Offline Vincep74

  • Posts: 4
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #90 on: October 17, 2013, 02:15 PM »

Hi !

I couldn't wait => i ordered the Parf Dogs and the small dogs this saturday.

UPS tried to deliver today but i wasn't at home...  :'( 
So i give them another adress and i expect the delivery be for tomorrow..

Unfortunately, I saw  on the UPS InfoNotice that i'll have to pay 33.34 eur for duty and brokerage fees, like cliffp.  I tried, I lost!

It's stupid, i should have waited for Axminster.. but that was above my strength after the story with Intelligent workshop!  ;D  I ordered them on 25 september...

Finally i'll pay the same price i accepted to pay before... so it's not so important.

And they'll be better than the others !!  :-)

Vince.

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 510
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #91 on: October 17, 2013, 02:34 PM »
@Vince

I have to admit I was a bit disappointed at the tax/fees but it is a great product and if £65 had been the cheapest it could be bought, it would be worth it.

It would be good to hear your opinion of them Vince.  My first impression, apart from the hefty weight, was how much nicer stainless steel looks than aluminium.
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline Davej

  • Posts: 630
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #92 on: October 17, 2013, 02:40 PM »
Stainless dogs at half the price of the aluminium ones and shipping from the U.S , makes me wonder if someone just thought how much they could get away with rather than a fair price . Also nice to see Mr P getting something for his R & D .
Dave
I dont mind growing old but i refuse to grow up

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1782
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #93 on: October 17, 2013, 02:44 PM »
I received the 2 Parf dogs and two small dogs today. They were very nicely packed and are beautifully made (as one would expect from Lee Valley). I tried setting up a cut to see how square the guide rail was to the long edge of the workpiece and it was absolutely perfect! I checked the diameters and they were all 19.90mm. There was a bit of wobble in the dogs which I thought might be an issue with the Parf (ie taller) dogs particularly if thicker wood was being cut so I used the knobs on the clamping elements to tighten them down - this got rid of the wobble completely. I can't imagine there would be any significant error with these dogs as they are machined to such tight tolerances and therefore the pair responsible for alignment in each plane are perfectly matched (indeed all four are perfectly matched). I think the diameters are probably just right as they would be difficult to insert if they were any larger.

I don't recommend importing to the UK as it is too expensive. The dogs themselves are a bargain at 35 dollars (2 Parf, 2 normal) but reasonably quick postage to the UK (3 working days) is another 35 dollars (UPS) and duty and brokerage fees adds a massive £20.65 bringing the total cost in sterling to £65!

I have been in touch with Axminster to find out how much they will charge and they said £17.75 for a pair of Parf dogs and £13.20 for a pair of small dogs - both prices including VAT.  They have now placed their order and expect stock to be available within 6 weeks (this just based on past experience).

I think this represents a bargain.

That is excellent information - I asked Axminster yesterday and they did not know prices - I suspect I was not talking to the right person. Lee Valley did well to get yours to you so soon. I am waiting for mine to arrive and I will then make the new video.

Peter


So, Peter, how much is LeeValley charging you?   [poke]
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Rob Lee

  • Festool Dealer
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  • Posts: 145
    • Lee Valley/Veritas
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #94 on: October 17, 2013, 02:47 PM »
To the overseas guys....

It really pains me to see the duty/taxes you're getting hit with...pls order from APTC, Carbatec, and others!!

I'll make sure we ship to 'em quickly....so you don't have to wait long!

Cheers,

Rob
(Headed to WIA, to show our new Systainer Drilling kit.... Among other things.....)

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1782
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #95 on: October 17, 2013, 02:47 PM »
Stainless dogs at half the price of the aluminium ones and shipping from the U.S , makes me wonder if someone just thought how much they could get away with rather than a fair price . Also nice to see Mr P getting something for his R & D .
Dave


Whoa, Dave. There is a huge difference in production methods and volume between LeeValley's capabilities and anyone else. If someone wanted you to build them a car you would need to charge alot more than any carmaker just to buy the materials.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Davej

  • Posts: 630
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #96 on: October 17, 2013, 03:05 PM »
Stainless dogs at half the price of the aluminium ones and shipping from the U.S , makes me wonder if someone just thought how much they could get away with rather than a fair price . Also nice to see Mr P getting something for his R & D .
Dave


Whoa, Dave. There is a huge difference in production methods and volume between LeeValley's capabilities and anyone else. If someone wanted you to build them a car you would need to charge alot more than any carmaker just to buy the materials.


Totally agree but I seem to remember reading that they were made by a manufacturer with the capacity for mass production.(  I apologise if I am wrong )
 

Also some imported tools from the USA seem to be disproportionately more expensive by time they land over here . I.e woodpecker precision t square 600mm is £140 over here .

<<edited to move reply out of quotes - P.Halle>>
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 05:30 PM by Peter Halle »
I dont mind growing old but i refuse to grow up

Offline Peter Parfitt

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    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #97 on: October 17, 2013, 04:22 PM »
Stainless dogs at half the price of the aluminium ones and shipping from the U.S , makes me wonder if someone just thought how much they could get away with rather than a fair price . Also nice to see Mr P getting something for his R & D .
Dave


Whoa, Dave. There is a huge difference in production methods and volume between LeeValley's capabilities and anyone else. If someone wanted you to build them a car you would need to charge alot more than any carmaker just to buy the materials.


Totally agree but I seem to remember reading that they were made by a manufacturer with the capacity for mass production.(  I apologise if I am wrong )
 

Also some imported tools from the USA seem to be disproportionately more expensive by time they land over here . I.e woodpecker precision t square 600mm is £140 over here .

From what Cliff told us, the Axminster price is very competitive and far better than the IW price and beats paying customs charges.

Peter

<<edited to move reply out of quotes - P.Halle>>
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 05:26 PM by Peter Halle »

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #98 on: October 17, 2013, 06:27 PM »
Sweet  !       [big grin]
Mike

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1661
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #99 on: October 17, 2013, 10:26 PM »
Got my Veritas Clamp Kit and Parf Dogs today. Didn't get to use them yet, but........ to Lee Valley - Great job! The Veritas and Parf Dogs fit in the table great! That much I did try. Plus, the packaging is great and the Parf Dogs fit in the box under the Low Profile Stops. All can be kept together.

It will be a pleasure to use them.
Randy

Offline Claimdude

  • Posts: 297
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #100 on: October 17, 2013, 11:10 PM »
Rob,

Any chance Lee Valley will have a presence at the upcoming WoodWorking show in Dallas, TX?

Thanks
 Jack

Offline Joseph C

  • Posts: 260
    • Integrity Design+Build
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #101 on: October 18, 2013, 10:26 AM »
The big brown truck dropped off my Parfs this afternoon -- nice job Peter and Rob!
They will be a nice match with my clamp blocks:

Do those Bessey hold downs need the knob tightened underneath to work?  Or can you get by just dropping them in place?
TS75, OF1010, PS300, Domino500, MFT/3, CT22 + WCR, CT MIDI, RS2e, RO150, ETS150, DS400, RO90, Grex 2" micropinner (festool green), and packing everything else into systainers, too.

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #102 on: October 18, 2013, 01:34 PM »
The big brown truck dropped off my Parfs this afternoon -- nice job Peter and Rob!
They will be a nice match with my clamp blocks:

Do those Bessey hold downs need the knob tightened underneath to work?  Or can you get by just dropping them in place?

They do secure the work piece just dropping them into the hole but I wouldn't consider it good regular practice. 
Same when using the Kreg clamps:
Wouldn't continued use like that degrade the hole size after awhile ??  MDF isn't that stable to support repeated/continued stress is it not ?
I felt that's why the laminated tops last longer due to the added support the formica surface added OR is that flawed thinking   ?   ?
If one uses the tops as a cut surface & has kerfs laminates are useless
 Just throwing that out there for comment  [huh]
Mike

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1782
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #103 on: October 18, 2013, 01:37 PM »
The big brown truck dropped off my Parfs this afternoon -- nice job Peter and Rob!
They will be a nice match with my clamp blocks:

Do those Bessey hold downs need the knob tightened underneath to work?  Or can you get by just dropping them in place?

They do secure the work piece just dropping them into the hole but I wouldn't consider it good regular practice. 
Same when using the Kreg clamps:
Wouldn't continued use like that degrade the hole size after awhile ??  MDF isn't that stable to support repeated/continued stress is it not ?
I felt that's why the laminated tops last longer due to the added support the formica surface added OR is that flawed thinking   ?   ?
If one uses the tops as a cut surface & has kerfs laminates are useless
 Just throwing that out there for comment  [huh]

The laminate might help a bit if it was on the bottom of the table as well as the top. The srtess will be on the back of the hole on the top and the front of the hole on the bottom.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #104 on: October 18, 2013, 01:44 PM »
I ask as I'm putting together a design for a extended MFT & was thinking of laminating both top/bottom of the surface , this would not be cut into with kerfs as I'd use a sacrificial piece for any cutting 
Mike

Offline Steve Rowe

  • Posts: 820
  • Teach them safety when they are young.
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #105 on: October 18, 2013, 01:44 PM »
Must resist!  Must resist!   [eek] - Resistance is futile.  Ordered a set of these along with the MFT Clamping set.  

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #106 on: October 18, 2013, 03:39 PM »
The laminate might help a bit if it was on the bottom of the table as well as the top. The stress will be on the back of the hole on the top and the front of the hole on the bottom.
I agree by only laminating the top then all the damage would just increase on the bottom of the holes .


 I'd myself would be in the market for threaded Parf dogs without a collar so one could make a fence that was flush with the top surface ,

to take the Parf even further then Why not the below  ,

 even some delirium Parf ones to make some inexpensive dogs that would /could be used in making some sacrificial wood cut rails   , I could then use a nylon bolt in them so not to damage any saw blades .
Just a thought  [cool]
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 03:42 PM by Slappy »
Mike

Offline Charlie Hill

  • Posts: 41
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #107 on: October 18, 2013, 04:39 PM »
I received the 2 Parf dogs and two small dogs today. They were very nicely packed and are beautifully made (as one would expect from Lee Valley). I tried setting up a cut to see how square the guide rail was to the long edge of the workpiece and it was absolutely perfect! I checked the diameters and they were all 19.90mm. There was a bit of wobble in the dogs which I thought might be an issue with the Parf (ie taller) dogs particularly if thicker wood was being cut so I used the knobs on the clamping elements to tighten them down - this got rid of the wobble completely. I can't imagine there would be any significant error with these dogs as they are machined to such tight tolerances and therefore the pair responsible for alignment in each plane are perfectly matched (indeed all four are perfectly matched). I think the diameters are probably just right as they would be difficult to insert if they were any larger.

I don't recommend importing to the UK as it is too expensive. The dogs themselves are a bargain at 35 dollars (2 Parf, 2 normal) but reasonably quick postage to the UK (3 working days) is another 35 dollars (UPS) and duty and brokerage fees adds a massive £20.65 bringing the total cost in sterling to £65!

I have been in touch with Axminster to find out how much they will charge and they said £17.75 for a pair of Parf dogs and £13.20 for a pair of small dogs - both prices including VAT.  They have now placed their order and expect stock to be available within 6 weeks (this just based on past experience).

I think this represents a bargain.

That is excellent information - I asked Axminster yesterday and they did not know prices - I suspect I was not talking to the right person. Lee Valley did well to get yours to you so soon. I am waiting for mine to arrive and I will then make the new video.

Peter

Peter
When you are making the new video could you please cover how you would use the parf dogs & guiderail to cut very small pieces - say 50 mm x 50 mm x 6 mm?

At the moment I struggle with the small workpiece moving when the blade starts the cut as the guide rail is not holding it down sufficiently.

Thanks in anticipation.

Charlie

PS Well done on getting your product to market with a reliable manufacturer and retailer.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #108 on: October 19, 2013, 02:15 AM »

Peter
When you are making the new video could you please cover how you would use the parf dogs & guiderail to cut very small pieces - say 50 mm x 50 mm x 6 mm?

At the moment I struggle with the small workpiece moving when the blade starts the cut as the guide rail is not holding it down sufficiently.

Thanks in anticipation.

Charlie

PS Well done on getting your product to market with a reliable manufacturer and retailer.

Hi Charlie

I have been following the 'thin strip' cutting thread and a lot of what I have seen looks dangerous. It is one thing to cut thin strips off a reasonable sized piece of stock but cutting thin pieces from already narrow stock can get a bit hairy. That is one reason many of use a table saw. If I am wrong about what you propose then please put me right and I will include it in the video. I am happy to look at other suggestions for the video  - but nothing naughty !

The new life of the Parf Dog is entirely down to the vision of Rob Lee. He approached me, we exchanged some emails and design ideas and the rest is down to him and his team producing what look to be the definitive design of Parf Dog. I see myself as the Daddy with a small and exciting part at the beginning and plenty of time now to enjoy the creation and many happy reflections along the way. Rob and his team have had the pain, the hard work and taken all of the risks. I am very proud of my small part in all of this.

Peter

Offline barnowl

  • Posts: 252
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #109 on: October 19, 2013, 07:20 AM »
Just a quick question for Peter and Rob Lee.

I already have Qwas dogs and rail dogs, and I'm about to order a couple of sets of Parf dogs and table dogs, and the knobs, but I'm a bit curious.

On the Parf dogs, has anyone considered flats on one side of the 25mm boss, to provide a consistant surface along the entire height,

for suporting the entire side of thicker stock, rather than just the very bottom edge?

I hope I worded that correctly.

best wishes,

Steve

TS-55, assorted rails, Domino, Kapex, OF1400, ETS 125 EQ, RO 125 FEQ, RO 90, PSB 300 EQ, CT-22, CT-26, MFT-3

Offline buckmaidt

  • Posts: 37
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #110 on: October 19, 2013, 11:57 AM »
Thanks for those images Ron. I have been trying to figure out how one would attach a fence to the parf dogs. Those knuckle clamps look perfect

Offline Peter Parfitt

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    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #111 on: October 19, 2013, 01:59 PM »
Thanks for that Ron - those fences look outstanding - I am tempted !

Peter

Offline Michael Garrett

  • Posts: 410
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #112 on: October 19, 2013, 02:36 PM »
do you have a part # for the track?  Is it the Super Track? Will these http://www.festoolproducts.com/Tool-Improvements-Lock-Fence-Dogs-with-8-mm-Thumb-p/lock-fence-dogs-pair.htm work with the track?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2013, 02:41 PM by Michael Garrett »
CT 26 HEPA, MFT/3 (2), TS 75 EQ, OF 1400 EQ,  DF 500 SET, CXS SET, C 15+3 SET, Ti-15 Basic, CENTROTEC INSTALLER SET 98-PC, TRADESMAN/INSTALLER CLEANING SET, DOMINO ASSORTMENT SYSTEM, LR 32 HOLE DRILLING SET, GUIDE RAIL FS 3000 (1), GUIDE RAIL ACCESSORY KIT, GUIDE RAIL FS 1400/2  (2), GUIDE RAIL FS 1900/2  (2), GUIDE RAIL FS 1400/2 LR 32  (1), Veritas MFT Clamping Kit,  Imperial & Metric Zorbo Forstner Bit Sets, RO 90, ETS 150/3, PSB 420 EBQ w/Accessory Kit, WCR-1000, PARALLEL GUIDE SET, CT 26 BOOM ARM SET, Veritas® Drilling Kit, MFK 700 EQ Router Set

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #113 on: October 19, 2013, 02:54 PM »
this stuff would make a more useful fence & give more options for other uses
 cheaper as well   

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370920025332?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
 gotta love that 80/20 stuff  [tongue]
Mike

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #114 on: October 19, 2013, 02:57 PM »
do you have a part # for the track?  Is it the Super Track? Will these http://www.festoolproducts.com/Tool-Improvements-Lock-Fence-Dogs-with-8-mm-Thumb-p/lock-fence-dogs-pair.htm work with the track?

That happens to be the clamp track from my drill press table:
http://www.woodpeck.com/wpdrillpresstable.html

I believe this is the same track:
http://www.woodpeck.com/dptrack.html
I've got that drill press table , Very well designed
Mike

Offline Michael Garrett

  • Posts: 410
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #115 on: October 19, 2013, 03:11 PM »
this stuff would make a more useful fence & give more options for other uses
 cheaper as well   

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370920025332?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
 gotta love that 80/20 stuff  [tongue]

What's the length?
CT 26 HEPA, MFT/3 (2), TS 75 EQ, OF 1400 EQ,  DF 500 SET, CXS SET, C 15+3 SET, Ti-15 Basic, CENTROTEC INSTALLER SET 98-PC, TRADESMAN/INSTALLER CLEANING SET, DOMINO ASSORTMENT SYSTEM, LR 32 HOLE DRILLING SET, GUIDE RAIL FS 3000 (1), GUIDE RAIL ACCESSORY KIT, GUIDE RAIL FS 1400/2  (2), GUIDE RAIL FS 1900/2  (2), GUIDE RAIL FS 1400/2 LR 32  (1), Veritas MFT Clamping Kit,  Imperial & Metric Zorbo Forstner Bit Sets, RO 90, ETS 150/3, PSB 420 EBQ w/Accessory Kit, WCR-1000, PARALLEL GUIDE SET, CT 26 BOOM ARM SET, Veritas® Drilling Kit, MFK 700 EQ Router Set

Offline fidelfs

  • Posts: 526
  • Houston, TX
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #116 on: October 19, 2013, 03:21 PM »
Very creative, I like it.
There is never a situation where it can't be done with the right hand tool - even though it may be a lot more work.

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #117 on: October 19, 2013, 03:36 PM »
this stuff would make a more useful fence & give more options for other uses
 cheaper as well   

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370920025332?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
 gotta love that 80/20 stuff  [tongue]

What's the length?
cut & paste from the Ebay site
Quote
One Lot (2pcs) of 80/20 Inc 10 Series 1" x 2" T-Slot Aluminum Extrusions, Part #1020.

The 1020 features one open T-slot on each of the 1" sides and two open T-slots on each of the 2" sides.

Content includes the following:

    1 pc @ 50.7"
    1 pc @ 51.75"
these come up all the time for sale on 80/20 site
 I just ordered
2 each 96.5 " 1 x 3 track
2 each 48 "  1 x 3 track
 4 each  1x1 48" tracks
 for my up coming Ho'made MFT
Mike

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #118 on: October 19, 2013, 03:58 PM »
Has anyone found a way of "converting" or probably better worded, modifying the Qwas rail dogs to perform the same function? Surely getting the correct thread and using something bolted into the dog and flipping it upside down? Or am I missing something vital. The more I think about it, the more I probably am missing something vital.

Time to add some stuff to my Axminster cart (when they eventually turn up there (I always wait until I have enough stuff in there for free delivery, sometimes it takes months, sometimes days)).
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline Michael Garrett

  • Posts: 410
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #119 on: October 19, 2013, 06:12 PM »
this stuff would make a more useful fence & give more options for other uses
 cheaper as well   

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370920025332?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
 gotta love that 80/20 stuff  [tongue]

What's the length?
cut & paste from the Ebay site
Quote
One Lot (2pcs) of 80/20 Inc 10 Series 1" x 2" T-Slot Aluminum Extrusions, Part #1020.

The 1020 features one open T-slot on each of the 1" sides and two open T-slots on each of the 2" sides.

Content includes the following:

    1 pc @ 50.7"
    1 pc @ 51.75"
these come up all the time for sale on 80/20 site
 I just ordered
2 each 96.5 " 1 x 3 track
2 each 48 "  1 x 3 track
 4 each  1x1 48" tracks
 for my up coming Ho'made MFT

The shipping is high.
CT 26 HEPA, MFT/3 (2), TS 75 EQ, OF 1400 EQ,  DF 500 SET, CXS SET, C 15+3 SET, Ti-15 Basic, CENTROTEC INSTALLER SET 98-PC, TRADESMAN/INSTALLER CLEANING SET, DOMINO ASSORTMENT SYSTEM, LR 32 HOLE DRILLING SET, GUIDE RAIL FS 3000 (1), GUIDE RAIL ACCESSORY KIT, GUIDE RAIL FS 1400/2  (2), GUIDE RAIL FS 1900/2  (2), GUIDE RAIL FS 1400/2 LR 32  (1), Veritas MFT Clamping Kit,  Imperial & Metric Zorbo Forstner Bit Sets, RO 90, ETS 150/3, PSB 420 EBQ w/Accessory Kit, WCR-1000, PARALLEL GUIDE SET, CT 26 BOOM ARM SET, Veritas® Drilling Kit, MFK 700 EQ Router Set