Author Topic: Parf Dogs  (Read 120577 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rob Lee

  • Festool Dealer
  • *
  • Posts: 145
    • Lee Valley/Veritas
Parf Dogs
« on: October 08, 2013, 04:44 PM »
Hi -

I'm pleased to announce that we will now be making Parf dogs at Veritas. Once I have all of the costs and part numbers worked out (which should be tomorrow), I'll post all of the details here.

These will be slightly different (in good ways!) from previous iterations of the design. All changes have been enthusiastically approved by Peter Parfitt, who will also be directly compensated for every dog sold (they do carry his name, after all).

Ours will be machined from stainless, in addition to the other tweaks.

And, before anyone asks - 19.90mm  base post diameter...

All the gory details tomorrow!

Cheers -

Rob

Offline ART at WORK

  • Posts: 199
  • Buy less Recycle more
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2013, 07:38 PM »
Thats great news. Im happy to hear that peter is getting his product produced in high quality and getting so monetary feedback as well.
I have an earlier set and really enjoy using them. No problem with the size.  ;)
I love the extra length, it makes it so much easier to fit them in the holes and more importantly you can wrap your hand round the sharft to remove them. Unlike the short ones where i break a finger nail trying to get them out.

Pip
Kapex 120 + UG Set, ETS 150/3, DF 500, RO 90, MFT/3, CTL 36 AC, RO 150, 0F 900, OF 2200, T15+3,  CDD 12, TS 55, A5 Router table, First Aid kit, LR 32 SYS, FS 800, FS 1400/2, FS 1400/2 LR32 FS2 3000, CTL Midi + Cleaning Set, Clamps, Parallel Guides, Centrotec drills, Zobo Forstner set and countersinks, Routers, Systainers, Sortainers, Sys Cart, Syslite

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2013, 12:47 AM »
I am absolutely delighted that Lee Valley are taking on the Parf Dogs. An amazing amount of work has gone into all of this (by LV not me) and I have been very impressed by the attention to detail shown by everyone at Lee Valley. I know that everyone will be happy with these. It really has been worth the wait.

Peter

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2013, 01:46 AM »
Wow SS Parf dogs  [eek]

on this side O'da Pond as well  [tongue]
Mike

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7628
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2013, 02:00 AM »
 [popcorn] [popcorn]

Offline Daver

  • Posts: 167
  • checkered shirt guy
    • Moonbase Alpha
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2013, 02:08 AM »
I am absolutely delighted that Lee Valley are taking on the Parf Dogs. An amazing amount of work has gone into all of this (by LV not me) and I have been very impressed by the attention to detail shown by everyone at Lee Valley. I know that everyone will be happy with these. It really has been worth the wait.

Peter

Hello Peter,

First let me say I watched the video on your Parf Dogs the other night and they are absolutely brilliant! Thank You.
It's fantastic to read that Lee Valley is now going to be producing them. They're absolutely top shelf. I took delivery of their Veritas MFT Clamping Kit last week and will supplement this with Parf Dogs as soon as they become available. They'll be put into immediate rotation and I look forward to getting a lot of great use out of them.
My compliments on all of your efforts from inception to now partnering with LV.

Best Regards,
Dave
Your work should reflect your fingerprints. -James Krenov
I'm not funny. What I am is brave. -Lucille Ball

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2013, 02:14 AM »
I am absolutely delighted that Lee Valley are taking on the Parf Dogs. An amazing amount of work has gone into all of this (by LV not me) and I have been very impressed by the attention to detail shown by everyone at Lee Valley. I know that everyone will be happy with these. It really has been worth the wait.

Peter

Hello Peter,

First let me say I watched the video on your Parf Dogs the other night and they are absolutely brilliant! Thank You.
It's fantastic to read that Lee Valley is now going to be producing them. They're absolutely top shelf. I took delivery of their Veritas MFT Clamping Kit last week and will supplement this with Parf Dogs as soon as they become available. They'll be put into immediate rotation and I look forward to getting a lot of great use out of them.
My compliments on all of your efforts from inception to now partnering with LV.

Best Regards,
Dave

Hi Dave

Everybody knows Lee Valley's reputation for high quality tools and that makes me feel so privileged (and humble) that they have taken on the Parf Dogs. Needless to say there will be a brand new Parf Dog video and the one that you have watched already will be removed.

Thanks Dave.

Peter

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2013, 02:24 AM »
+1
Mike

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 513
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2013, 03:14 AM »
I can't think of a better endorsement of a product than having Lee Valley manufacture them. I will seriously consider buying some as a result of this.
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline Rob Lee

  • Festool Dealer
  • *
  • Posts: 145
    • Lee Valley/Veritas
Re: Parf Dogs - Update
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2013, 11:46 AM »
Hi  -

Thanks for the kind comments!

As promised - here are the details:

1) Dog root diameters will be 19.90mm
2) Collar/head diameters will be 25mm (to fit common drill/forstner sizes). also gives a bit more bearing surface
3) Small dog wil have a though hole, M8. Coupled with the 25mm head size, makes it easy to also use as a locating stud/mounting stud for your own fences or fixtures
4) Material will be Stainless steel
5) Collar/head height is 10mm
6) Parf dog overall length is 87mm

Pr small dogs - will be part # 05G4950 and will retail at $14.50 per pair
Pair large Parf dogs - will be part # 05G4955 and will retail for $19.50 per pair

We will also make these available through the Veritas distribution system - so they should be available in other countries too.

I'll post another note when we get them set up on our system, and will also post pictures of the completed dogs - we have multiple CNC lathes running them now.

So - if you really want some - please don't call or try to order just yet. Our own staff don't even know about them yet, we're still propagating the information.  [eek]

I suspect we'll be in a position to start accepting orders and shipping by Monday.

Cheers -

Rob

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 2901
Re: Parf Dogs - Update
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2013, 12:08 PM »
Hi  -

Thanks for the kind comments!

As promised - here are the details:

1) Dog root diameters will be 19.90mm
2) Collar/head diameters will be 25mm (to fit common drill/forstner sizes). also gives a bit more bearing surface
3) Small dog wil have a though hole, M8. Coupled with the 25mm head size, makes it easy to also use as a locating stud/mounting stud for your own fences or fixtures
4) Material will be Stainless steel
5) Collar/head height is 10mm
6) Parf dog overall length is 87mm

Pr small dogs - will be part # 05G4950 and will retail at $14.50 per pair
Pair large Parf dogs - will be part # 05G4955 and will retail for $19.50 per pair

We will also make these available through the Veritas distribution system - so they should be available in other countries too.

I'll post another note when we get them set up on our system, and will also post pictures of the completed dogs - we have multiple CNC lathes running them now.

So - if you really want some - please don't call or try to order just yet. Our own staff don't even know about them yet, we're still propagating the information.  [eek]

I suspect we'll be in a position to start accepting orders and shipping by Monday.

Cheers -

Rob


I wonder if 26mm wouldn't be better?
Just abstractly thinking that an even full 13mm offset from the hole's center
might be handier than the 12.5mm offset created by the 25mm head...

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2013, 12:16 PM »
Hi Michael

The 12.5 mm offset is not an issue when the Parf Dogs are in use. The 25 mm size has been chosen to match a standard Forstner bit size (either 25mm or 1") to give even more uses for the Parf Dogs for jig work, trammel work and so on.

Peter

Offline fidelfs

  • Posts: 527
  • Houston, TX
Re: Parf Dogs - Update
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2013, 12:20 PM »

I wonder if 26mm wouldn't be better?
Just abstractly thinking that an even full 13mm offset from the hole's center
might be handier than the 12.5mm offset created by the 25mm head...

For what reason?  They are suppose to be butt against the rail, what other use you foresee?
There is never a situation where it can't be done with the right hand tool - even though it may be a lot more work.

Offline Davej

  • Posts: 630
Re: Parf Dogs - Update
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2013, 12:42 PM »

I wonder if 26mm wouldn't be better?
Just abstractly thinking that an even full 13mm offset from the hole's center
might be handier than the 12.5mm offset created by the 25mm head...

For what reason?  They are suppose to be butt against the rail, what other use you foresee?


Possibly so you can drill a couple of holes in a length of timber , drop it over the dogs and 'hey presto '  a fence you could use as a backstop . Just a thought  [smile].
Dave
I dont mind growing old but i refuse to grow up

Offline Rob Lee

  • Festool Dealer
  • *
  • Posts: 145
    • Lee Valley/Veritas
Re: Parf Dogs - Update
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2013, 12:45 PM »

I wonder if 26mm wouldn't be better?
Just abstractly thinking that an even full 13mm offset from the hole's center
might be handier than the 12.5mm offset created by the 25mm head...

Hi Michael -

This is something we looked at. We can handle desirable offsets by using collars (which gives us the option of higher/lower profiles at the same time). Also - cost to go above 1" in SS material starts to get pricey awful fast.

Cheers -

Rob

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3204
Re: Re: Re: Parf Dogs - Update
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2013, 03:07 PM »
Hi  -

Thanks for the kind comments!

As promised - here are the details:

1) Dog root diameters will be 19.90mm
2) Collar/head diameters will be 25mm (to fit common drill/forstner sizes). also gives a bit more bearing surface
3) Small dog wil have a though hole, M8. Coupled with the 25mm head size, makes it easy to also use as a locating stud/mounting stud for your own fences or fixtures
4) Material will be Stainless steel
5) Collar/head height is 10mm
6) Parf dog overall length is 87mm

Pr small dogs - will be part # 05G4950 and will retail at $14.50 per pair
Pair large Parf dogs - will be part # 05G4955 and will retail for $19.50 per pair

We will also make these available through the Veritas distribution system - so they should be available in other countries too.

I'll post another note when we get them set up on our system, and will also post pictures of the completed dogs - we have multiple CNC lathes running them now.

So - if you really want some - please don't call or try to order just yet. Our own staff don't even know about them yet, we're still propagating the information.  [eek]

I suspect we'll be in a position to start accepting orders and shipping by Monday.

Cheers -

Rob

Much better prices, the old prices were ridiculous these are much better I might even get some myself;D

Will there be a UK stockist or can you send a bunch to Peter to send out ?

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1708
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2013, 03:13 PM »
Just out of curiosity, if someone bought the Veritas Clamping Kit for the MFT/3, why would you also buy the Parf Dogs? The functions seem redundant.
Randy

Offline msc

  • Posts: 94
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2013, 03:22 PM »
Hi
Just joined forum.
Really looking forward to getting some of these. Prices are good.

Offline fidelfs

  • Posts: 527
  • Houston, TX
Re: Parf Dogs - Update
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2013, 03:31 PM »

I suspect we'll be in a position to start accepting orders and shipping by Monday.

Cheers -

Rob


Monday... Monday... So Close and yet  So Far
There is never a situation where it can't be done with the right hand tool - even though it may be a lot more work.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 2901
Re: Parf Dogs - Update
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2013, 04:05 PM »

I wonder if 26mm wouldn't be better?
Just abstractly thinking that an even full 13mm offset from the hole's center
might be handier than the 12.5mm offset created by the 25mm head...

Hi Michael -

This is something we looked at. We can handle desirable offsets by using collars (which gives us the option of higher/lower profiles at the same time). Also - cost to go above 1" in SS material starts to get pricey awful fast.

Cheers -

Rob


Keeping costs reasonable is important.
Actually my first thought was 24mm but switched to 26mm when I noticed that LV doesn't stock 24mm Forstner style bits.

I like the idea of a sacrificial fence that fits snuggly over the posts. If one of the holes in the fence is slightly oversized set screws could be used to fine tune the angle. Brass set screws would pair well with the stainless posts.

Offline Rob Lee

  • Festool Dealer
  • *
  • Posts: 145
    • Lee Valley/Veritas
Re: Re: Re: Parf Dogs - Update
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2013, 04:30 PM »

Much better prices, the old prices were ridiculous these are much better I might even get some myself;D

Will there be a UK stockist or can you send a bunch to Peter to send out ?

Hi -

I can confirm that Axminster has already ordered some... but it will likely take a bit of time before the get there! We still have to create and communicate a formal distribution plan.

The folks here are really the first ones to find out - even before dealers!

Cheers -

Rob



Offline msc

  • Posts: 94
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2013, 04:36 PM »
Thats great Axminster are getting them, very easy to get them here then.

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3204
Re: Re: Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2013, 04:40 PM »
Thats great Axminster are getting them, very easy to get them here then.

+1

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1708
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2013, 05:20 PM »


Hello Peter,

First let me say I watched the video on your Parf Dogs the other night and they are absolutely brilliant! Thank You.
It's fantastic to read that Lee Valley is now going to be producing them. They're absolutely top shelf. I took delivery of their Veritas MFT Clamping Kit last week and will supplement this with Parf Dogs as soon as they become available. They'll be put into immediate rotation and I look forward to getting a lot of great use out of them.
My compliments on all of your efforts from inception to now partnering with LV.

Best Regards,
Dave
[/quote]

I'm curious what additional functionality you get from adding the Parf Dogs to an already complete Veritas Clamping Kit (which also includes dogs).
Randy

Offline Claimdude

  • Posts: 300
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2013, 07:50 PM »
I don't see a link for the Parf Dogs video mentioned in this post. Can someone post the link please?

Thanks
 Jack

Offline dicktill

  • Posts: 250

Offline Daver

  • Posts: 167
  • checkered shirt guy
    • Moonbase Alpha
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2013, 02:40 AM »

I'm curious what additional functionality you get from adding the Parf Dogs to an already complete Veritas Clamping Kit (which also includes dogs).

As Peter Parfitt details here starting at 2:45
the Parf Dogs can be used to achieve dead accurate crosscuts on the MFT/3 table without the use of the fence. There are other uses but the crosscutting feature sells me on them.

Dave
Your work should reflect your fingerprints. -James Krenov
I'm not funny. What I am is brave. -Lucille Ball

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2013, 02:56 AM »
Just to add to Dave's post...

There will be a completely new Parf Dog video produced in the coming weeks and I will attempt to fire up your imagination so that you can find even more applications or ways of using the new design of Parf Dog.

When that new video is on YouTube I will delete the old one.

Peter

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3204
Re:
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2013, 05:28 AM »
Be good if you could show them used with the sys mft for us mobile workers

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re:
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2013, 06:38 AM »
Be good if you could show them used with the sys mft for us mobile workers

Well I would if I had one - perhaps if someone at Festool UK thinks that this is a good idea then they could let me borrow one.

Who are the Festool UK employees who use the FOG ? I can then PM them or make sure they read this.

Peter

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1708
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2013, 07:03 AM »

I'm curious what additional functionality you get from adding the Parf Dogs to an already complete Veritas Clamping Kit (which also includes dogs).

As Peter Parfitt details here starting at 2:45
the Parf Dogs can be used to achieve dead accurate crosscuts on the MFT/3 table without the use of the fence. There are other uses but the crosscutting feature sells me on them.

Dave

Further question then - Unless I'm missing something, the Veritas set, given it also contains multiple dogs that fit in the MFT holes, would server exactly the same purpose. How many dogs do you need on one particular task. Seems like the Veritas kit has sufficient dogs and even adds clamps which fit in the holes. I'm thinking that this would be the extent of what you would usually need unless there was some unique job you were doing that required additional dogs.
Randy

Offline Rob Lee

  • Festool Dealer
  • *
  • Posts: 145
    • Lee Valley/Veritas
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2013, 07:22 AM »

Further question then - Unless I'm missing something, the Veritas set, given it also contains multiple dogs that fit in the MFT holes, would server exactly the same purpose. How many dogs do you need on one particular task. Seems like the Veritas kit has sufficient dogs and even adds clamps which fit in the holes. I'm thinking that this would be the extent of what you would usually need unless there was some unique job you were doing that required additional dogs.

Hi -

The Parf dogs actually complement the Veritas set. The main difference between the two is that the Veritas MFT set was designed for work-holding, where the Parf dogs (the tall ones) are intended as a complement to track saw (and similar)operations - more about positioning. Certainly the small SS dogs have a lot of functional overlap with the small dogs in the Veritas set.

Cheers -

Rob

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2013, 10:25 AM »
I like that the collar height will be 10mm which will allow me to use a 1/4" sacrificial piece of MDF under the work piece with enough additional height for the collar to register the work piece.
 Using the Parfs for cutting, the width of the Festool guide rail effects the kerf line to intersect a row of holes -- I'm in the minority with reluctance to adding kerf cuts to the nice MFT work surface and even less with kerfs intersecting holes so my sacrificial 1/4" MDF along with the well designed Lee Valley Parfs will do me nicely.
I'll be ordering two (2) sets of both the long and short versions.  [thumbs up]

Hi Ron,

The kerf line is just a factor of the 96 mm pitch and guide rail width and we have been used to this with the original design. It is not an issue for me but if anyone is really concerned then one can either follow your lead and have a sacrificial (1/4" MDF) under your work piece or use a 1-2" parallel sided spacer between the Parfs and the guide rail to move things over. I think that there are people around who do not like to saw into their MFT top at all and so your option of the sacrificial piece under the work may be attractive to them. For me, I am happy to just use it as it comes.

Peter

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2013, 10:48 AM »
I like that the collar height will be 10mm which will allow me to use a 1/4" sacrificial piece of MDF under the work piece with enough additional height for the collar to register the work piece.
 Using the Parfs for cutting, the width of the Festool guide rail effects the kerf line to intersect a row of holes -- I'm in the minority with reluctance to adding kerf cuts to the nice MFT work surface and even less with kerfs intersecting holes so my sacrificial 1/4" MDF along with the well designed Lee Valley Parfs will do me nicely.
I'll be ordering two (2) sets of both the long and short versions.  [thumbs up]

Hi Ron,

The kerf line is just a factor of the 96 mm pitch and guide rail width and we have been used to this with the original design. It is not an issue for me but if anyone is really concerned then one can either follow your lead and have a sacrificial (1/4" MDF) under your work piece or use a 1-2" parallel sided spacer between the Parfs and the guide rail to move things over. I think that there are people around who do not like to saw into their MFT top at all and so your option of the sacrificial piece under the work may be attractive to them. For me, I am happy to just use it as it comes.

Peter

Now that the Parfs had made it very easy to duplicate the MFT tops perhaps I'll get crazy & start kerfing my tops also...  [unsure]
It's really a minor concern.

Hopefully Rob will take your lead & also begin to offer the twist drill bits that you demonstrated while making your MFT tops.  I'd prefer to see it offered with a ~1/2" shank.
 

When I replicated my last MFT top I was tempted to leave one column and one row of holes un-drilled that would be at the right spots for sawing (North-South and East-West). Some people might find that tricky as they might have to do some cuts in different areas of the MFT3. For me that would not apply as I have made extensions for my MFT3 which allow me to always do my cuts in the same place.

Peter

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2013, 12:49 PM »
^^^^ I plan on buying a replacement MFT top & use it as a template jig to make my own long table top that way making the 20mm holes spacing would be exact & precise
Using Peter's process of copying the top one could just walk the jig across a 4 x 8 sheet of MDF & precisely cut all the holes  in minutes .
 The MFT tables are just too small for my use .
 I'd keep the MFT top as jig over with all my other saved jigs .  
 So the Parf dogs are on the next to buy list of mine  ;D
Mike

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2013, 01:20 PM »
^^^^ I plan on buying a replacement MFT top & use it as a template jig to make my own long table top that way making the 20mm holes spacing would be exact & precise
Using Peter's process of copying the top one could just walk the jig across a 4 x 8 sheet of MDF & precisely cut all the holes  in minutes .
 The MFT tables are just too small for my use .
 I'd keep the MFT top as jig over with all my other saved jigs .  
 So the Parf dogs are on the next to buy list of mine  ;D

Hi Slappy, one of the things I have on my list to do is to make a slightly larger mobile bench with the MFT pattern of holes done the way you suggest. The holes make jig work, work holding and, of course, sawing using the Parf Dogs, so easy. My bench will be on heavy duty castors, have some storage underneath and be able to support most of an 8x4 sheet if required. At a guess (I have not designed it yet) it might be 800 x 1600 mm (about 2/3 of an 8x4 in each direction.

Peter

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2013, 01:32 PM »
^^^^ I plan on buying a replacement MFT top & use it as a template jig to make my own long table top that way making the 20mm holes spacing would be exact & precise
Using Peter's process of copying the top one could just walk the jig across a 4 x 8 sheet of MDF & precisely cut all the holes  in minutes .
 The MFT tables are just too small for my use .
 I'd keep the MFT top as jig over with all my other saved jigs .  
 So the Parf dogs are on the next to buy list of mine  ;D

Hi Slappy, one of the things I have on my list to do is to make a slightly larger mobile bench with the MFT pattern of holes done the way you suggest. The holes make jig work, work holding and, of course, sawing using the Parf Dogs, so easy. My bench will be on heavy duty castors, have some storage underneath and be able to support most of an 8x4 sheet if required. At a guess (I have not designed it yet) it might be 800 x 1600 mm (about 2/3 of an 8x4 in each direction.

Peter
I'll be making a top only & then design 2 supports to hold up the top , I plan to have the supports  to be multiple use small tables that would act as a support system  to the removable top .  I want to be able to break down to save floor space BUT not for on site use . Just so I'd have flexibility to use the center of the room . the smaller support tables would also have the 20mm holes cut to their tops as well

 any chance that some Perf dogs have a opening on top that is threaded for adding jigs ??  
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 01:38 PM by Slappy »
Mike

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2013, 01:40 PM »

 any chance that some Perf dogs have a opening on top that is threaded for adding jigs ??   

I will leave that for the good folks at Lee Valley to digest but I suspect that for the very few that need it you would be better to drill and tap yourself - I have done this and it is not rocket science.

Peter

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2013, 02:18 PM »

 any chance that some Perf dogs have a opening on top that is threaded for adding jigs ??   

I will leave that for the good folks at Lee Valley to digest but I suspect that for the very few that need it you would be better to drill and tap yourself - I have done this and it is not rocket science.

Peter
Yeah , i was thinking after posting , that it would best (cheaper)if I did drill & tap my own .
 But really to take the usefulness to the maximum a top access point is a good idea on " ANY " of these types of  Table Dogs
Mike

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2013, 03:02 PM »

 any chance that some Perf dogs have a opening on top that is threaded for adding jigs ??   

I will leave that for the good folks at Lee Valley to digest but I suspect that for the very few that need it you would be better to drill and tap yourself - I have done this and it is not rocket science.

Peter
Yeah , i was thinking after posting , that it would best (cheaper)if I did drill & tap my own .
 But really to take the usefulness to the maximum a top access point is a good idea on " ANY " of these types of  Table Dogs

I understand.

Peter

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1708
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2013, 05:11 PM »


Hi -

The Parf dogs actually complement the Veritas set. The main difference between the two is that the Veritas MFT set was designed for work-holding, where the Parf dogs (the tall ones) are intended as a complement to track saw (and similar)operations - more about positioning. Certainly the small SS dogs have a lot of functional overlap with the small dogs in the Veritas set.

Cheers -

Rob


OK I get that. Would it be safe to say that a combination of the Veritas set plus the tall Parf Dogs would be a good mix? It would seem that 2 tall Parf Dogs with the Veritas set would be sufficient to make the MFT table more flexible and a little easier to square up with the fence and hold work down for assembly, etc.

R
Randy

Offline Rob Lee

  • Festool Dealer
  • *
  • Posts: 145
    • Lee Valley/Veritas
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2013, 05:42 PM »
(snip)
 any chance that some Perf dogs have a opening on top that is threaded for adding jigs ??  

Hi -

The small SS dogs will have an M8 tapped through hole.... The tall Parf dogs just have the tapped hole on the bottom...

Cheers -

Rob

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2013, 05:55 PM »
(snip)
 any chance that some Perf dogs have a opening on top that is threaded for adding jigs ??  

Hi -

The small SS dogs will have an M8 tapped through hole.... The tall Parf dogs just have the tapped hole on the bottom...

Cheers -

Rob

Now We/re Talkin'  [eek]

That is a HUGH +  selling point , over other "DoGs" on the market  IMO !
 that opens up making a jig that could have 2 dogs attached like on a angle bar OR even some of the 8020 rails that would make for some quick-set-up fences   [tongue]
 edit
 this makes making side rails on my newly to be designed/made extended type of Ho'made MFT top very easy with these dogs attracted to some 8020 rails

 that would be square & parallel to each other ,
opens up endless types of cutting jigs , clamping jigs , low profile router clamping jigs
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 06:15 PM by Slappy »
Mike

Offline Sometimewoodworker

  • Posts: 683
    • Jerome's  Other work
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2013, 08:04 PM »
^^^^ I plan on buying a replacement MFT top & use it as a template jig to make my own long table top that way making the 20mm holes spacing would be exact & precise
Using Peter's process of copying the top one could just walk the jig across a 4 x 8 sheet of MDF & precisely cut all the holes  in minutes .
 The MFT tables are just too small for my use .
 I'd keep the MFT top as jig over with all my other saved jigs .  
 So the Parf dogs are on the next to buy list of mine  ;D

Hi Slappy, one of the things I have on my list to do is to make a slightly larger mobile bench with the MFT pattern of holes done the way you suggest. The holes make jig work, work holding and, of course, sawing using the Parf Dogs, so easy. My bench will be on heavy duty castors, have some storage underneath and be able to support most of an 8x4 sheet if required. At a guess (I have not designed it yet) it might be 800 x 1600 mm (about 2/3 of an 8x4 in each direction.

Peter
May be something like this?
93898-0

93900-1
Jerome
TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, CXS, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone, Workshop supplies drum sander, & WoodRat. Don't have don't want list: MFT
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nui-jerome/

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2013, 08:22 PM »
Quote
May be something like this?
Yes , but have the top be able to be taken off & placed on a panel cart for storage , I can't have a stationary table like that , it has to be broke down at times . I'd also run sets of the holes closer to the edges to use them as rail supports with the parf dogs in the edge holes 
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 08:29 PM by Slappy »
Mike

Offline Sometimewoodworker

  • Posts: 683
    • Jerome's  Other work
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2013, 10:09 PM »
Quote
May be something like this?
Yes , but have the top be able to be taken off & placed on a panel cart for storage , I can't have a stationary table like that , it has to be broke down at times . I'd also run sets of the holes closer to the edges to use them as rail supports with the parf dogs in the edge holes 
my suggestion was mainly for Peter as he suggested he needed, wheels hole grid, and storage with a larger area than the MFT. And mine has all those points. :)
Jerome
TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, CXS, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone, Workshop supplies drum sander, & WoodRat. Don't have don't want list: MFT
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nui-jerome/

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2013, 11:45 PM »
Jerome , your table is VERY nice , Nice job on that  [tongue]

 I wish I had that much room to build one like yours , I could use all those drawers for sure !

 does anyone ever laminate the tops with something like Formica   ?  ?  Seems that would make the MDF last longer ?  ?
Mike

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #47 on: October 11, 2013, 12:57 AM »
....

 my suggestion was mainly for Peter as he suggested he needed, wheels hole grid, and storage with a larger area than the MFT. And mine has all those points. :)
Nice bench Jerome - with some of my new super castors it would fly around the workshop. Please would you empty out all of those odds and ends before you ship it to me !

Cheers.

Peter
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 02:52 AM by Peter Parfitt »

Offline rjwz28

  • Posts: 190
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2013, 02:57 AM »
Can someone point out to me what is the difference between the Parf Dogs and regular bench dogs besides that the Parf ones are taller?  No offense to the inventor, but I watched the video and wonder what am I not getting?

Thanks,
Rob

Offline Sometimewoodworker

  • Posts: 683
    • Jerome's  Other work
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2013, 03:39 AM »
....

 my suggestion was mainly for Peter as he suggested he needed, wheels hole grid, and storage with a larger area than the MFT. And mine has all those points. :)
Nice bench Jerome - with some of my new super castors it would fly around the workshop. Please would you empty out all of those odds and ends before you ship it to me !

Cheers.

Peter
Thanks for the complement, No problem except you would need to pay the shipping, air package from Thailand and my guess is that it is somewhere about 70kg mark. :o :o [jawdrop]

There are some construction pics and detail of the construction at.
.
http://Meekings.selfip.com/nui/Groups-of-photos/Wood_work_etc/Pages/Workbench.html

FWIW it can be easly be taken apart for transport, and both the boxes of draws have their own wheels for easy movement.
Jerome
TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, CXS, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone, Workshop supplies drum sander, & WoodRat. Don't have don't want list: MFT
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nui-jerome/

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2013, 03:52 AM »
I think that we will see a growth in the building of custom benches as it is easy make some 20mm holes, where needed (and no more), for the dogs and produce perfect right angle cuts every time.

Thanks for the pictures Jerome.

Peter

Offline Sometimewoodworker

  • Posts: 683
    • Jerome's  Other work
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2013, 07:38 AM »
I think that we will see a growth in the building of custom benches as it is easy make some 20mm holes, where needed (and no more), for the dogs and produce perfect right angle cuts every time.

Thanks for the pictures Jerome.

Peter
There are a few more on the making of the template I used and a few more items using the 96mm grid.

Template and a few items

And here.
making the template
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 07:44 AM by Jerome »
Jerome
TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, CXS, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone, Workshop supplies drum sander, & WoodRat. Don't have don't want list: MFT
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nui-jerome/

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2013, 08:23 AM »
Without meaning to hijack the thread...

I've just had an 8' x 4' sheet of MR 18mm MDF cut out by a local CNC company, about 220 holes at 20mm. Whilst I was at it I figured a template might be handy for the future, so taken from someone else's idea I had a half sheet made up with registration holes for 20mm dogs in the four corners (for repetition) and then the rest of the holes spaced correctly using a 30mm hole for my guide bush to conveniently drop straight into allowing the use of a 20mm straight cutter.

£100 all in. Was quite happy with that considering I haven't had to spend any time on it other than dropping the sheets off and picking up after. Looking forward to using the template to sneakily convert my Wife's Ikea step-up (featured in another thread) into a handy clamping stand for use indoors and also to pop some holes into my CT26 custom made top - idea also stolen from another thread.
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1708
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2013, 01:59 PM »
Getting a top done using a CNC seems to me to be the only way to get complete accuracy. The Festool tops are expensive but accurate. Doing it even with a template seems risky. If any holes aren't exactly drilled right accuracy will suffer. I think we all like the concept of finding a way to create jigs and these Festool tops on our own, but I'll stick with Festool's tops for now. The dogs and clamping kits are a great idea though and, especially the clamping kit would make securement of parts easier and faster, especially for assembly but cutting also.
Randy

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3204
Re: Re: Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2013, 03:01 PM »

Looking forward to using the template to sneakily convert my Wife's Ikea step-up (featured in another thread)

Lol I can imagine someone sneaking around drill mft holes in any flat surface they can without getting caught.

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2013, 04:20 PM »
Getting a top done using a CNC seems to me to be the only way to get complete accuracy. The Festool tops are expensive but accurate. Doing it even with a template seems risky. If any holes aren't exactly drilled right accuracy will suffer. I think we all like the concept of finding a way to create jigs and these Festool tops on our own, but I'll stick with Festool's tops for now. The dogs and clamping kits are a great idea though and, especially the clamping kit would make securement of parts easier and faster, especially for assembly but cutting also.
I myself have been able to accurately duplicate many high tolerance needed templates over onto another board very successfully ,
It's all about getting  solid stable reference points , with a new MFT top & these parf dogs (or any pair of the other threaded dogs bolted from the top then the underside ) as long as there at least two reference points it can be drilled OR use of a good high tolerance trim cut router bit .
 I like the trim cut bits (1" deep ones) as the cut is precisely perpendicular to the top surface .  I myself have been very satisfied that I can repeat this all day long on production work , Yes I have to predrill a hole that allows the bit & bearing  to enter but the way it cuts the risk of a plunge bit not staying in reference is gone .
 this is where a non-plunge router is useful , I have one Porter Cable 890 router that is it's only function , the use of the trim cut-off bits at just over a $100.oo for the PC on sale it's a no brainer single use tool  , with 3  flute cut-off  bits  , I end up with a very  fine cut surface . I'm not saying this is the best way but I have been able to duplicate a template to where you can't tell which piece is the template when I'm done
 Everyone has their own processes that they are comfortable with  & If you feel you can't do as I do that's great go the CNC route .  It's a what works for you is the best method .

    
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 05:53 PM by Slappy »
Mike

Offline Rob Lee

  • Festool Dealer
  • *
  • Posts: 145
    • Lee Valley/Veritas
Parf Dogs Now available for shipment...
« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2013, 05:42 PM »
Hi -

These are now in stock, and available for shipment!

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=71185&cat=51&ap=1

Have to give Kudos to our development and manufacturing staff...in fewer than 7 days, we went from initial agreement with Peter, through a re-design phase, Engineering and QC, to stock on the shelf....write-ups, pricing, and web treatment too! Even have orders headed for export (UK and Australia, so far).

We have never come close to being that fast before!

Cheers -

Rob

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 513
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #57 on: October 11, 2013, 05:49 PM »
Order placed!
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline Daver

  • Posts: 167
  • checkered shirt guy
    • Moonbase Alpha
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #58 on: October 11, 2013, 06:01 PM »
Your work should reflect your fingerprints. -James Krenov
I'm not funny. What I am is brave. -Lucille Ball

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1708
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #59 on: October 12, 2013, 01:17 AM »
Getting a top done using a CNC seems to me to be the only way to get complete accuracy. The Festool tops are expensive but accurate. Doing it even with a template seems risky. If any holes aren't exactly drilled right accuracy will suffer. I think we all like the concept of finding a way to create jigs and these Festool tops on our own, but I'll stick with Festool's tops for now. The dogs and clamping kits are a great idea though and, especially the clamping kit would make securement of parts easier and faster, especially for assembly but cutting also.
I myself have been able to accurately duplicate many high tolerance needed templates over onto another board very successfully ,
It's all about getting  solid stable reference points , with a new MFT top & these parf dogs (or any pair of the other threaded dogs bolted from the top then the underside ) as long as there at least two reference points it can be drilled OR use of a good high tolerance trim cut router bit .
 I like the trim cut bits (1" deep ones) as the cut is precisely perpendicular to the top surface .  I myself have been very satisfied that I can repeat this all day long on production work , Yes I have to predrill a hole that allows the bit & bearing  to enter but the way it cuts the risk of a plunge bit not staying in reference is gone .
 this is where a non-plunge router is useful , I have one Porter Cable 890 router that is it's only function , the use of the trim cut-off bits at just over a $100.oo for the PC on sale it's a no brainer single use tool  , with 3  flute cut-off  bits  , I end up with a very  fine cut surface . I'm not saying this is the best way but I have been able to duplicate a template to where you can't tell which piece is the template when I'm done
 Everyone has their own processes that they are comfortable with  & If you feel you can't do as I do that's great go the CNC route .  It's a what works for you is the best method .

    

When you say "trim cut bit" is that the generic name under which they are sold? Are they sold in 20 mm diameter? Will a spiral upcut bit do the same job? I suppose the spiral bit might not be available in that size.
Randy

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2013, 02:03 AM »
 might be using the wrong term
but these are what I use
but I use the 3 flute model  I'll post the bosch p/n in the morning for the 3 flute model  I've used both the 1/2" & the 1/4" shank

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-85266M-Diameter-Laminate-Bearing/product-reviews/B000GY9WCC/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
 I'm Not actually drilling the hole I'm cutting the hole out with a bearing loaded trim cut router bit , the 3 flute give a fine cut surface , the bearing actually copies the holes & cuts an exact copy of the template on the new board .
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 02:07 AM by Slappy »
Mike

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #61 on: October 12, 2013, 04:22 AM »
might be using the wrong term
but these are what I use
but I use the 3 flute model  I'll post the bosch p/n in the morning for the 3 flute model  I've used both the 1/2" & the 1/4" shank

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-85266M-Diameter-Laminate-Bearing/product-reviews/B000GY9WCC/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
 I'm Not actually drilling the hole I'm cutting the hole out with a bearing loaded trim cut router bit , the 3 flute give a fine cut surface , the bearing actually copies the holes & cuts an exact copy of the template on the new board .

I would not use a flush cutter like this as I do not believe that I could get the accuracy and consistency required - it will also take a lot longer than using a single operation with a 20mm cutter.

Peter

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1708
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #62 on: October 12, 2013, 07:49 AM »
might be using the wrong term
but these are what I use
but I use the 3 flute model  I'll post the bosch p/n in the morning for the 3 flute model  I've used both the 1/2" & the 1/4" shank

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-85266M-Diameter-Laminate-Bearing/product-reviews/B000GY9WCC/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
 I'm Not actually drilling the hole I'm cutting the hole out with a bearing loaded trim cut router bit , the 3 flute give a fine cut surface , the bearing actually copies the holes & cuts an exact copy of the template on the new board .

I would not use a flush cutter like this as I do not believe that I could get the accuracy and consistency required - it will also take a lot longer than using a single operation with a 20mm cutter.

Peter

Peter,

I've seen your video. My concern with the replication process is getting the 20mm holed drilled exactly perpendicular to the top. My experience with using the type of bit you demonstrated was that it causes enough vibration during the drilling that the drill moves around at least slightly. I used it to drill holes in my workbench top for regular bench dogs and the result was usable but not at the precision that the MFT tops come from Festool. I did just buy the Parf dogs from Lee Valley though because I think they are a great idea.
Randy

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 282
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #63 on: October 12, 2013, 08:22 AM »
Hi,

After watching Peter's video on youtube it sounds like the TS 75 will not pass by the Parf dogs on the track? Is this true?

Thanks,
Gerry
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #64 on: October 12, 2013, 08:50 AM »
Hi,

After watching Peter's video on youtube it sounds like the TS 75 will not pass by the Parf dogs on the track? Is this true?

Thanks,
Gerry

Yes, unless the stock is very thick. It is simple to make a spacer (parallel strip of 19mm MDF would do) that fits between the rail and the Parf Dogs but it is only for those people using the TS75. I have seen, perhaps it was on the FOG, a picture of some small 19mm MDF discs that someone made - they had 20mm holes in the middle and fitted down on the Parf Dog - very simple.

Peter

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #65 on: October 12, 2013, 08:54 AM »

Peter,

I've seen your video. My concern with the replication process is getting the 20mm holed drilled exactly perpendicular to the top. My experience with using the type of bit you demonstrated was that it causes enough vibration during the drilling that the drill moves around at least slightly. I used it to drill holes in my workbench top for regular bench dogs and the result was usable but not at the precision that the MFT tops come from Festool. I did just buy the Parf dogs from Lee Valley though because I think they are a great idea.

You do need to be careful. Some people have used a spiral up-cut cutter in a router to maintain the squareness. Others have used a miniature drill press (but I do not have one). You can make up a guide block which I have done. This will be picked up in the new Parf Dog video.

Peter

Offline Sometimewoodworker

  • Posts: 683
    • Jerome's  Other work
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #66 on: October 12, 2013, 09:06 AM »
Jerome
TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, CXS, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone, Workshop supplies drum sander, & WoodRat. Don't have don't want list: MFT
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nui-jerome/

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 282
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #67 on: October 12, 2013, 09:17 AM »
Thanks for clearing that up Peter. I wonder if something fastened to the rail might not be more convenient as long as it was light weight & accurately made?

Thanks,
Gerry
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline Steve Rowe

  • Posts: 821
  • Teach them safety when they are young.
Re: Parf Dogs Now available for shipment...
« Reply #68 on: October 12, 2013, 10:29 AM »
Hi -

These are now in stock, and available for shipment!

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=71185&cat=51&ap=1

Have to give Kudos to our development and manufacturing staff...in fewer than 7 days, we went from initial agreement with Peter, through a re-design phase, Engineering and QC, to stock on the shelf....write-ups, pricing, and web treatment too! Even have orders headed for export (UK and Australia, so far).

We have never come close to being that fast before!

Cheers -

Rob


Awesome!  This is one of many reasons to love Lee Valley.  Perhaps it is a bit early to ask but, are there any plans to integrate the Parf Dogs into the MFT clamping set?
Thanks,
Steve

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 2901
Re: Parf Dogs Now available for shipment...
« Reply #69 on: October 12, 2013, 10:44 AM »
Hi -

These are now in stock, and available for shipment!

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=71185&cat=51&ap=1

Have to give Kudos to our development and manufacturing staff...in fewer than 7 days, we went from initial agreement with Peter, through a re-design phase, Engineering and QC, to stock on the shelf....write-ups, pricing, and web treatment too! Even have orders headed for export (UK and Australia, so far).

We have never come close to being that fast before!

Cheers -

Rob


That's amazing! What was the motivation to go for the record?

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 513
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #70 on: October 12, 2013, 12:37 PM »
I'm impressed - I placed my order just before going to bed. When I got up (at 7:00 am) I had already had a reply offering me postage options. Within another couple of hours it was all finalised. I rarely experience this level of efficiency in the UK when there is no time zone difference, let alone dealing with the complications of international postage.
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1619
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #71 on: October 12, 2013, 12:46 PM »
I'm impressed - I placed my order just before going to bed. When I got up (at 7:00 am) I had already had a reply offering me postage options. Within another couple of hours it was all finalised. I rarely experience this level of efficiency in the UK when there is no time zone difference, let alone dealing with the complications of international postage.

Did you miss the bit about them being stocked by Axminster soon? Or could you just not wait?  [poke]

Offline John_

  • Posts: 159
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #72 on: October 12, 2013, 12:56 PM »
I myself have been able to accurately duplicate many high tolerance needed templates over onto another board very successfully ,
It's all about getting  solid stable reference points , with a new MFT top & these parf dogs (or any pair of the other threaded dogs bolted from the top then the underside ) as long as there at least two reference points it can be drilled OR use of a good high tolerance trim cut router bit .
 I like the trim cut bits (1" deep ones) as the cut is precisely perpendicular to the top surface .  I myself have been very satisfied that I can repeat this all day long on production work , Yes I have to predrill a hole that allows the bit & bearing  to enter but the way it cuts the risk of a plunge bit not staying in reference is gone .
 this is where a non-plunge router is useful , I have one Porter Cable 890 router that is it's only function , the use of the trim cut-off bits at just over a $100.oo for the PC on sale it's a no brainer single use tool  , with 3  flute cut-off  bits  , I end up with a very  fine cut surface . I'm not saying this is the best way but I have been able to duplicate a template to where you can't tell which piece is the template when I'm done
 Everyone has their own processes that they are comfortable with  & If you feel you can't do as I do that's great go the CNC route .  It's a what works for you is the best method .

I agree and this is how I do it also.  I would like to add that I use a 5/8 ID x ¾ OD 'drill bushing' so that I do not damage the template (mcmaster carr 8492A327).  Also, not all 'top bearing flush trim bits' are the same.  I have found that most manufacturers slightly undersize the bit compared to the size of the bearing - so that the it will not cut into the template. This difference is enough so the actual hole size is too small to fit the dog.  A Freud 50-102 will work or you can call Whiteside and they will hand find one for you that matches (bit to bearing).  Even though I use my plunge router, I find it easier to just shut it off (foot switch) and not plunge it.

    

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 513
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #73 on: October 12, 2013, 02:03 PM »
Quote
Did you miss the bit about them being stocked by Axminster soon? Or could you just not wait?

I am keen to get them soon. I can imagine it would be a while before Axminster did get them and with the PM-V11 chisels they never seemed to get any stock and their prices were much higher than direct from Veritas. I can imagine there wouldn't be a great deal of difference in price anyway, even taking into account the postage (its costing me 35 dollars for the 5-6 days service).
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3204
Re:
« Reply #74 on: October 12, 2013, 02:33 PM »
Peter can you let us all know when axi have them in stock ?

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re:
« Reply #75 on: October 12, 2013, 02:46 PM »
Peter can you let us all know when axi have them in stock ?
I can give them a call on Monday - I would contact Rob Lee but it is a Canadian holiday on Monday and Axminster ought to know approximately when they are due in.

As soon as I receive my set I will start a new video. I am preparing quite a bit in advance and so it should not take long to get it up on YouTube.

Peter

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #76 on: October 12, 2013, 02:52 PM »
I myself have been able to accurately duplicate many high tolerance needed templates over onto another board very successfully ,
It's all about getting  solid stable reference points , with a new MFT top & these parf dogs (or any pair of the other threaded dogs bolted from the top then the underside ) as long as there at least two reference points it can be drilled OR use of a good high tolerance trim cut router bit .
 I like the trim cut bits (1" deep ones) as the cut is precisely perpendicular to the top surface .  I myself have been very satisfied that I can repeat this all day long on production work , Yes I have to predrill a hole that allows the bit & bearing  to enter but the way it cuts the risk of a plunge bit not staying in reference is gone .
 this is where a non-plunge router is useful , I have one Porter Cable 890 router that is it's only function , the use of the trim cut-off bits at just over a $100.oo for the PC on sale it's a no brainer single use tool  , with 3  flute cut-off  bits  , I end up with a very  fine cut surface . I'm not saying this is the best way but I have been able to duplicate a template to where you can't tell which piece is the template when I'm done
 Everyone has their own processes that they are comfortable with  & If you feel you can't do as I do that's great go the CNC route .  It's a what works for you is the best method .


I agree and this is how I do it also.  I would like to add that I use a 5/8 ID x ¾ OD 'drill bushing' so that I do not damage the template (mcmaster carr 8492A327).  Also, not all 'top bearing flush trim bits' are the same.  I have found that most manufacturers slightly undersize the bit compared to the size of the bearing - so that the it will not cut into the template. This difference is enough so the actual hole size is too small to fit the dog.  A Freud 50-102 will work or you can call Whiteside and they will hand find one for you that matches (bit to bearing).  Even though I use my plunge router, I find it easier to just shut it off (foot switch) and not plunge it.

    

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-85216MC-Diameter-Laminate-Bearing/dp/B000GYG2WA

I use a Bosch p/n 85216MC  3 flute carbide with a 1" cut   it's a bottom bearing model which allows the bearing to ride on the template these Bosch don't cut the template at all I've used this model for years with duplicating templates & get a perfectly matched cut to the copy material .
 yes it's slightly more work BUT it makes for a true cut that is parallel up / down & perpendicular to to the surface  , a exact copy to the templates . I keep 3 or 4 new ones of these at all times in my shop  .  They are not expensive .  
Mike

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3204
Re:
« Reply #77 on: October 12, 2013, 04:02 PM »
I used a similar technique, where you use 3 dogs on an mft to cut square , on Friday. I haven't got an mft but have a homemade version which is just a dewalt saw table with a new ply top I cut holes in. Instead of dogs I just used 3 clamps set up in the same way to form a right angle. Worked well to cut square ends on some 2x1 when I couldn't be asked to get my chop saw out.

Offline Rob Lee

  • Festool Dealer
  • *
  • Posts: 145
    • Lee Valley/Veritas
Re: Parf Dogs Now available for shipment...
« Reply #78 on: October 13, 2013, 09:12 AM »

Awesome!  This is one of many reasons to love Lee Valley.  Perhaps it is a bit early to ask but, are there any plans to integrate the Parf Dogs into the MFT clamping set?
Thanks,
Steve

Hi Steve,

It's been discussed, but nothing concrete just yet. We'll likely take a closer look at it once we've done a bit more development in this area (we're not done yet).

Cheers -

Rob

Offline Rob Lee

  • Festool Dealer
  • *
  • Posts: 145
    • Lee Valley/Veritas
Re: Parf Dogs Now available for shipment...
« Reply #79 on: October 13, 2013, 09:18 AM »

That's amazing! What was the motivation to go for the record?

Hi Michael -

It was just serendipity that we had the material on hand and the availabilty to free up some lathe capacity. While there were some minor changes to the design, the Parf dogs were a product that was understood by the market, and the was clear demand for it.

Sometimes - it's good for staff to see that they can handle a crash effort as well as they did. Good for morale, and confidence.

Cheers -

Rob
(the whip cracker....)

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1555
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #80 on: October 13, 2013, 10:07 AM »
Rob, your tool additions within the last 5 years, including the festool range, have made Lee Valley an amazing place to shop! You seem to be bringing in all the right stuff lately and whoever is responsible deserves to be recognized. Keep up the good work! And Happy Thanksgiving! I'm thankful for Lee Valley right now.

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re:
« Reply #81 on: October 14, 2013, 09:03 AM »
Peter can you let us all know when axi have them in stock ?

I spoke to Axminster this morning. The guy said that they are not sure of exact shipping dates but he seemed to think that it would all happen reasonably quickly. I have asked them to email me when they have something definite for the UK crowd.

Peter

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3204
Re:
« Reply #82 on: October 14, 2013, 09:07 AM »
Cheers , do they have any UK prices yet ?

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re:
« Reply #83 on: October 14, 2013, 12:17 PM »
Cheers , do they have any UK prices yet ?

I did not ask but I suspect they are busy preparing all of that sort of thing - web site, entry catalogue number and so on.

I will post any information that I get as soon as it comes in.

Peter

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 513
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #84 on: October 17, 2013, 10:56 AM »
I received the 2 Parf dogs and two small dogs today. They were very nicely packed and are beautifully made (as one would expect from Lee Valley). I tried setting up a cut to see how square the guide rail was to the long edge of the workpiece and it was absolutely perfect! I checked the diameters and they were all 19.90mm. There was a bit of wobble in the dogs which I thought might be an issue with the Parf (ie taller) dogs particularly if thicker wood was being cut so I used the knobs on the clamping elements to tighten them down - this got rid of the wobble completely. I can't imagine there would be any significant error with these dogs as they are machined to such tight tolerances and therefore the pair responsible for alignment in each plane are perfectly matched (indeed all four are perfectly matched). I think the diameters are probably just right as they would be difficult to insert if they were any larger.

I don't recommend importing to the UK as it is too expensive. The dogs themselves are a bargain at 35 dollars (2 Parf, 2 normal) but reasonably quick postage to the UK (3 working days) is another 35 dollars (UPS) and duty and brokerage fees adds a massive £20.65 bringing the total cost in sterling to £65!

I have been in touch with Axminster to find out how much they will charge and they said £17.75 for a pair of Parf dogs and £13.20 for a pair of small dogs - both prices including VAT.  They have now placed their order and expect stock to be available within 6 weeks (this just based on past experience).

I think this represents a bargain.
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3204
Re:
« Reply #85 on: October 17, 2013, 11:04 AM »
Well done Cliff on getting the prices from axi :)

I've got a friend on a UK forum who's making me some similar dogs for free from stainless steel. So unless that doesn't work out I doubt I will be buying any now.

However those prices are pretty good I don't think axminster have been greedy.

Offline Festoolfootstool

  • Posts: 2076
  • The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #86 on: October 17, 2013, 11:33 AM »
thanks for the reveiw and axminster info I will have to get some.. [thumbs up]
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 513
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #87 on: October 17, 2013, 11:36 AM »
Quote
I will have to get some.. Thumbs Up

You will have to get some - they are 'the dogs' in more ways than one...
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #88 on: October 17, 2013, 12:03 PM »
I received the 2 Parf dogs and two small dogs today. They were very nicely packed and are beautifully made (as one would expect from Lee Valley). I tried setting up a cut to see how square the guide rail was to the long edge of the workpiece and it was absolutely perfect! I checked the diameters and they were all 19.90mm. There was a bit of wobble in the dogs which I thought might be an issue with the Parf (ie taller) dogs particularly if thicker wood was being cut so I used the knobs on the clamping elements to tighten them down - this got rid of the wobble completely. I can't imagine there would be any significant error with these dogs as they are machined to such tight tolerances and therefore the pair responsible for alignment in each plane are perfectly matched (indeed all four are perfectly matched). I think the diameters are probably just right as they would be difficult to insert if they were any larger.

I don't recommend importing to the UK as it is too expensive. The dogs themselves are a bargain at 35 dollars (2 Parf, 2 normal) but reasonably quick postage to the UK (3 working days) is another 35 dollars (UPS) and duty and brokerage fees adds a massive £20.65 bringing the total cost in sterling to £65!

I have been in touch with Axminster to find out how much they will charge and they said £17.75 for a pair of Parf dogs and £13.20 for a pair of small dogs - both prices including VAT.  They have now placed their order and expect stock to be available within 6 weeks (this just based on past experience).

I think this represents a bargain.

That is excellent information - I asked Axminster yesterday and they did not know prices - I suspect I was not talking to the right person. Lee Valley did well to get yours to you so soon. I am waiting for mine to arrive and I will then make the new video.

Peter

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 513
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #89 on: October 17, 2013, 12:11 PM »
Its a great product Peter and about time you got some return on your investment in the time to design and demo them.
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline Vincep74

  • Posts: 4
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #90 on: October 17, 2013, 02:15 PM »

Hi !

I couldn't wait => i ordered the Parf Dogs and the small dogs this saturday.

UPS tried to deliver today but i wasn't at home...  :'( 
So i give them another adress and i expect the delivery be for tomorrow..

Unfortunately, I saw  on the UPS InfoNotice that i'll have to pay 33.34 eur for duty and brokerage fees, like cliffp.  I tried, I lost!

It's stupid, i should have waited for Axminster.. but that was above my strength after the story with Intelligent workshop!  ;D  I ordered them on 25 september...

Finally i'll pay the same price i accepted to pay before... so it's not so important.

And they'll be better than the others !!  :-)

Vince.

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 513
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #91 on: October 17, 2013, 02:34 PM »
@Vince

I have to admit I was a bit disappointed at the tax/fees but it is a great product and if £65 had been the cheapest it could be bought, it would be worth it.

It would be good to hear your opinion of them Vince.  My first impression, apart from the hefty weight, was how much nicer stainless steel looks than aluminium.
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline Davej

  • Posts: 630
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #92 on: October 17, 2013, 02:40 PM »
Stainless dogs at half the price of the aluminium ones and shipping from the U.S , makes me wonder if someone just thought how much they could get away with rather than a fair price . Also nice to see Mr P getting something for his R & D .
Dave
I dont mind growing old but i refuse to grow up

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1785
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #93 on: October 17, 2013, 02:44 PM »
I received the 2 Parf dogs and two small dogs today. They were very nicely packed and are beautifully made (as one would expect from Lee Valley). I tried setting up a cut to see how square the guide rail was to the long edge of the workpiece and it was absolutely perfect! I checked the diameters and they were all 19.90mm. There was a bit of wobble in the dogs which I thought might be an issue with the Parf (ie taller) dogs particularly if thicker wood was being cut so I used the knobs on the clamping elements to tighten them down - this got rid of the wobble completely. I can't imagine there would be any significant error with these dogs as they are machined to such tight tolerances and therefore the pair responsible for alignment in each plane are perfectly matched (indeed all four are perfectly matched). I think the diameters are probably just right as they would be difficult to insert if they were any larger.

I don't recommend importing to the UK as it is too expensive. The dogs themselves are a bargain at 35 dollars (2 Parf, 2 normal) but reasonably quick postage to the UK (3 working days) is another 35 dollars (UPS) and duty and brokerage fees adds a massive £20.65 bringing the total cost in sterling to £65!

I have been in touch with Axminster to find out how much they will charge and they said £17.75 for a pair of Parf dogs and £13.20 for a pair of small dogs - both prices including VAT.  They have now placed their order and expect stock to be available within 6 weeks (this just based on past experience).

I think this represents a bargain.

That is excellent information - I asked Axminster yesterday and they did not know prices - I suspect I was not talking to the right person. Lee Valley did well to get yours to you so soon. I am waiting for mine to arrive and I will then make the new video.

Peter


So, Peter, how much is LeeValley charging you?   [poke]
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Rob Lee

  • Festool Dealer
  • *
  • Posts: 145
    • Lee Valley/Veritas
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #94 on: October 17, 2013, 02:47 PM »
To the overseas guys....

It really pains me to see the duty/taxes you're getting hit with...pls order from APTC, Carbatec, and others!!

I'll make sure we ship to 'em quickly....so you don't have to wait long!

Cheers,

Rob
(Headed to WIA, to show our new Systainer Drilling kit.... Among other things.....)

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1785
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #95 on: October 17, 2013, 02:47 PM »
Stainless dogs at half the price of the aluminium ones and shipping from the U.S , makes me wonder if someone just thought how much they could get away with rather than a fair price . Also nice to see Mr P getting something for his R & D .
Dave


Whoa, Dave. There is a huge difference in production methods and volume between LeeValley's capabilities and anyone else. If someone wanted you to build them a car you would need to charge alot more than any carmaker just to buy the materials.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Davej

  • Posts: 630
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #96 on: October 17, 2013, 03:05 PM »
Stainless dogs at half the price of the aluminium ones and shipping from the U.S , makes me wonder if someone just thought how much they could get away with rather than a fair price . Also nice to see Mr P getting something for his R & D .
Dave


Whoa, Dave. There is a huge difference in production methods and volume between LeeValley's capabilities and anyone else. If someone wanted you to build them a car you would need to charge alot more than any carmaker just to buy the materials.


Totally agree but I seem to remember reading that they were made by a manufacturer with the capacity for mass production.(  I apologise if I am wrong )
 

Also some imported tools from the USA seem to be disproportionately more expensive by time they land over here . I.e woodpecker precision t square 600mm is £140 over here .

<<edited to move reply out of quotes - P.Halle>>
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 05:30 PM by Peter Halle »
I dont mind growing old but i refuse to grow up

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #97 on: October 17, 2013, 04:22 PM »
Stainless dogs at half the price of the aluminium ones and shipping from the U.S , makes me wonder if someone just thought how much they could get away with rather than a fair price . Also nice to see Mr P getting something for his R & D .
Dave


Whoa, Dave. There is a huge difference in production methods and volume between LeeValley's capabilities and anyone else. If someone wanted you to build them a car you would need to charge alot more than any carmaker just to buy the materials.


Totally agree but I seem to remember reading that they were made by a manufacturer with the capacity for mass production.(  I apologise if I am wrong )
 

Also some imported tools from the USA seem to be disproportionately more expensive by time they land over here . I.e woodpecker precision t square 600mm is £140 over here .

From what Cliff told us, the Axminster price is very competitive and far better than the IW price and beats paying customs charges.

Peter

<<edited to move reply out of quotes - P.Halle>>
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 05:26 PM by Peter Halle »

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #98 on: October 17, 2013, 06:27 PM »
Sweet  !       [big grin]
Mike

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1708
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #99 on: October 17, 2013, 10:26 PM »
Got my Veritas Clamp Kit and Parf Dogs today. Didn't get to use them yet, but........ to Lee Valley - Great job! The Veritas and Parf Dogs fit in the table great! That much I did try. Plus, the packaging is great and the Parf Dogs fit in the box under the Low Profile Stops. All can be kept together.

It will be a pleasure to use them.
Randy

Offline Claimdude

  • Posts: 300
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #100 on: October 17, 2013, 11:10 PM »
Rob,

Any chance Lee Valley will have a presence at the upcoming WoodWorking show in Dallas, TX?

Thanks
 Jack

Online Joseph C

  • Posts: 260
    • Integrity Design+Build
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #101 on: October 18, 2013, 10:26 AM »
The big brown truck dropped off my Parfs this afternoon -- nice job Peter and Rob!
They will be a nice match with my clamp blocks:

Do those Bessey hold downs need the knob tightened underneath to work?  Or can you get by just dropping them in place?
TS75, OF1010, PS300, Domino500, MFT/3, CT22 + WCR, CT MIDI, RS2e, RO150, ETS150, DS400, RO90, Grex 2" micropinner (festool green), and packing everything else into systainers, too.

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #102 on: October 18, 2013, 01:34 PM »
The big brown truck dropped off my Parfs this afternoon -- nice job Peter and Rob!
They will be a nice match with my clamp blocks:

Do those Bessey hold downs need the knob tightened underneath to work?  Or can you get by just dropping them in place?

They do secure the work piece just dropping them into the hole but I wouldn't consider it good regular practice. 
Same when using the Kreg clamps:
Wouldn't continued use like that degrade the hole size after awhile ??  MDF isn't that stable to support repeated/continued stress is it not ?
I felt that's why the laminated tops last longer due to the added support the formica surface added OR is that flawed thinking   ?   ?
If one uses the tops as a cut surface & has kerfs laminates are useless
 Just throwing that out there for comment  [huh]
Mike

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1785
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #103 on: October 18, 2013, 01:37 PM »
The big brown truck dropped off my Parfs this afternoon -- nice job Peter and Rob!
They will be a nice match with my clamp blocks:

Do those Bessey hold downs need the knob tightened underneath to work?  Or can you get by just dropping them in place?

They do secure the work piece just dropping them into the hole but I wouldn't consider it good regular practice. 
Same when using the Kreg clamps:
Wouldn't continued use like that degrade the hole size after awhile ??  MDF isn't that stable to support repeated/continued stress is it not ?
I felt that's why the laminated tops last longer due to the added support the formica surface added OR is that flawed thinking   ?   ?
If one uses the tops as a cut surface & has kerfs laminates are useless
 Just throwing that out there for comment  [huh]

The laminate might help a bit if it was on the bottom of the table as well as the top. The srtess will be on the back of the hole on the top and the front of the hole on the bottom.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #104 on: October 18, 2013, 01:44 PM »
I ask as I'm putting together a design for a extended MFT & was thinking of laminating both top/bottom of the surface , this would not be cut into with kerfs as I'd use a sacrificial piece for any cutting 
Mike

Offline Steve Rowe

  • Posts: 821
  • Teach them safety when they are young.
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #105 on: October 18, 2013, 01:44 PM »
Must resist!  Must resist!   [eek] - Resistance is futile.  Ordered a set of these along with the MFT Clamping set.  

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #106 on: October 18, 2013, 03:39 PM »
The laminate might help a bit if it was on the bottom of the table as well as the top. The stress will be on the back of the hole on the top and the front of the hole on the bottom.
I agree by only laminating the top then all the damage would just increase on the bottom of the holes .


 I'd myself would be in the market for threaded Parf dogs without a collar so one could make a fence that was flush with the top surface ,

to take the Parf even further then Why not the below  ,

 even some delirium Parf ones to make some inexpensive dogs that would /could be used in making some sacrificial wood cut rails   , I could then use a nylon bolt in them so not to damage any saw blades .
Just a thought  [cool]
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 03:42 PM by Slappy »
Mike

Offline Charlie Hill

  • Posts: 41
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #107 on: October 18, 2013, 04:39 PM »
I received the 2 Parf dogs and two small dogs today. They were very nicely packed and are beautifully made (as one would expect from Lee Valley). I tried setting up a cut to see how square the guide rail was to the long edge of the workpiece and it was absolutely perfect! I checked the diameters and they were all 19.90mm. There was a bit of wobble in the dogs which I thought might be an issue with the Parf (ie taller) dogs particularly if thicker wood was being cut so I used the knobs on the clamping elements to tighten them down - this got rid of the wobble completely. I can't imagine there would be any significant error with these dogs as they are machined to such tight tolerances and therefore the pair responsible for alignment in each plane are perfectly matched (indeed all four are perfectly matched). I think the diameters are probably just right as they would be difficult to insert if they were any larger.

I don't recommend importing to the UK as it is too expensive. The dogs themselves are a bargain at 35 dollars (2 Parf, 2 normal) but reasonably quick postage to the UK (3 working days) is another 35 dollars (UPS) and duty and brokerage fees adds a massive £20.65 bringing the total cost in sterling to £65!

I have been in touch with Axminster to find out how much they will charge and they said £17.75 for a pair of Parf dogs and £13.20 for a pair of small dogs - both prices including VAT.  They have now placed their order and expect stock to be available within 6 weeks (this just based on past experience).

I think this represents a bargain.

That is excellent information - I asked Axminster yesterday and they did not know prices - I suspect I was not talking to the right person. Lee Valley did well to get yours to you so soon. I am waiting for mine to arrive and I will then make the new video.

Peter

Peter
When you are making the new video could you please cover how you would use the parf dogs & guiderail to cut very small pieces - say 50 mm x 50 mm x 6 mm?

At the moment I struggle with the small workpiece moving when the blade starts the cut as the guide rail is not holding it down sufficiently.

Thanks in anticipation.

Charlie

PS Well done on getting your product to market with a reliable manufacturer and retailer.

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #108 on: October 19, 2013, 02:15 AM »

Peter
When you are making the new video could you please cover how you would use the parf dogs & guiderail to cut very small pieces - say 50 mm x 50 mm x 6 mm?

At the moment I struggle with the small workpiece moving when the blade starts the cut as the guide rail is not holding it down sufficiently.

Thanks in anticipation.

Charlie

PS Well done on getting your product to market with a reliable manufacturer and retailer.

Hi Charlie

I have been following the 'thin strip' cutting thread and a lot of what I have seen looks dangerous. It is one thing to cut thin strips off a reasonable sized piece of stock but cutting thin pieces from already narrow stock can get a bit hairy. That is one reason many of use a table saw. If I am wrong about what you propose then please put me right and I will include it in the video. I am happy to look at other suggestions for the video  - but nothing naughty !

The new life of the Parf Dog is entirely down to the vision of Rob Lee. He approached me, we exchanged some emails and design ideas and the rest is down to him and his team producing what look to be the definitive design of Parf Dog. I see myself as the Daddy with a small and exciting part at the beginning and plenty of time now to enjoy the creation and many happy reflections along the way. Rob and his team have had the pain, the hard work and taken all of the risks. I am very proud of my small part in all of this.

Peter

Offline barnowl

  • Posts: 252
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #109 on: October 19, 2013, 07:20 AM »
Just a quick question for Peter and Rob Lee.

I already have Qwas dogs and rail dogs, and I'm about to order a couple of sets of Parf dogs and table dogs, and the knobs, but I'm a bit curious.

On the Parf dogs, has anyone considered flats on one side of the 25mm boss, to provide a consistant surface along the entire height,

for suporting the entire side of thicker stock, rather than just the very bottom edge?

I hope I worded that correctly.

best wishes,

Steve

TS-55, assorted rails, Domino, Kapex, OF1400, ETS 125 EQ, RO 125 FEQ, RO 90, PSB 300 EQ, CT-22, CT-26, MFT-3

Offline buckmaidt

  • Posts: 37
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #110 on: October 19, 2013, 11:57 AM »
Thanks for those images Ron. I have been trying to figure out how one would attach a fence to the parf dogs. Those knuckle clamps look perfect

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #111 on: October 19, 2013, 01:59 PM »
Thanks for that Ron - those fences look outstanding - I am tempted !

Peter

Offline Michael Garrett

  • Posts: 410
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #112 on: October 19, 2013, 02:36 PM »
do you have a part # for the track?  Is it the Super Track? Will these http://www.festoolproducts.com/Tool-Improvements-Lock-Fence-Dogs-with-8-mm-Thumb-p/lock-fence-dogs-pair.htm work with the track?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2013, 02:41 PM by Michael Garrett »
CT 26 HEPA, MFT/3 (2), TS 75 EQ, OF 1400 EQ,  DF 500 SET, CXS SET, C 15+3 SET, Ti-15 Basic, CENTROTEC INSTALLER SET 98-PC, TRADESMAN/INSTALLER CLEANING SET, DOMINO ASSORTMENT SYSTEM, LR 32 HOLE DRILLING SET, GUIDE RAIL FS 3000 (1), GUIDE RAIL ACCESSORY KIT, GUIDE RAIL FS 1400/2  (2), GUIDE RAIL FS 1900/2  (2), GUIDE RAIL FS 1400/2 LR 32  (1), Veritas MFT Clamping Kit,  Imperial & Metric Zorbo Forstner Bit Sets, RO 90, ETS 150/3, PSB 420 EBQ w/Accessory Kit, WCR-1000, PARALLEL GUIDE SET, CT 26 BOOM ARM SET, Veritas® Drilling Kit, MFK 700 EQ Router Set

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #113 on: October 19, 2013, 02:54 PM »
this stuff would make a more useful fence & give more options for other uses
 cheaper as well   

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370920025332?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
 gotta love that 80/20 stuff  [tongue]
Mike

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #114 on: October 19, 2013, 02:57 PM »
do you have a part # for the track?  Is it the Super Track? Will these http://www.festoolproducts.com/Tool-Improvements-Lock-Fence-Dogs-with-8-mm-Thumb-p/lock-fence-dogs-pair.htm work with the track?

That happens to be the clamp track from my drill press table:
http://www.woodpeck.com/wpdrillpresstable.html

I believe this is the same track:
http://www.woodpeck.com/dptrack.html
I've got that drill press table , Very well designed
Mike

Offline Michael Garrett

  • Posts: 410
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #115 on: October 19, 2013, 03:11 PM »
this stuff would make a more useful fence & give more options for other uses
 cheaper as well   

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370920025332?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
 gotta love that 80/20 stuff  [tongue]

What's the length?
CT 26 HEPA, MFT/3 (2), TS 75 EQ, OF 1400 EQ,  DF 500 SET, CXS SET, C 15+3 SET, Ti-15 Basic, CENTROTEC INSTALLER SET 98-PC, TRADESMAN/INSTALLER CLEANING SET, DOMINO ASSORTMENT SYSTEM, LR 32 HOLE DRILLING SET, GUIDE RAIL FS 3000 (1), GUIDE RAIL ACCESSORY KIT, GUIDE RAIL FS 1400/2  (2), GUIDE RAIL FS 1900/2  (2), GUIDE RAIL FS 1400/2 LR 32  (1), Veritas MFT Clamping Kit,  Imperial & Metric Zorbo Forstner Bit Sets, RO 90, ETS 150/3, PSB 420 EBQ w/Accessory Kit, WCR-1000, PARALLEL GUIDE SET, CT 26 BOOM ARM SET, Veritas® Drilling Kit, MFK 700 EQ Router Set

Offline fidelfs

  • Posts: 527
  • Houston, TX
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #116 on: October 19, 2013, 03:21 PM »
Very creative, I like it.
There is never a situation where it can't be done with the right hand tool - even though it may be a lot more work.

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #117 on: October 19, 2013, 03:36 PM »
this stuff would make a more useful fence & give more options for other uses
 cheaper as well   

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370920025332?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
 gotta love that 80/20 stuff  [tongue]

What's the length?
cut & paste from the Ebay site
Quote
One Lot (2pcs) of 80/20 Inc 10 Series 1" x 2" T-Slot Aluminum Extrusions, Part #1020.

The 1020 features one open T-slot on each of the 1" sides and two open T-slots on each of the 2" sides.

Content includes the following:

    1 pc @ 50.7"
    1 pc @ 51.75"
these come up all the time for sale on 80/20 site
 I just ordered
2 each 96.5 " 1 x 3 track
2 each 48 "  1 x 3 track
 4 each  1x1 48" tracks
 for my up coming Ho'made MFT
Mike

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #118 on: October 19, 2013, 03:58 PM »
Has anyone found a way of "converting" or probably better worded, modifying the Qwas rail dogs to perform the same function? Surely getting the correct thread and using something bolted into the dog and flipping it upside down? Or am I missing something vital. The more I think about it, the more I probably am missing something vital.

Time to add some stuff to my Axminster cart (when they eventually turn up there (I always wait until I have enough stuff in there for free delivery, sometimes it takes months, sometimes days)).
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline Michael Garrett

  • Posts: 410
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #119 on: October 19, 2013, 06:12 PM »
this stuff would make a more useful fence & give more options for other uses
 cheaper as well   

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370920025332?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
 gotta love that 80/20 stuff  [tongue]

What's the length?
cut & paste from the Ebay site
Quote
One Lot (2pcs) of 80/20 Inc 10 Series 1" x 2" T-Slot Aluminum Extrusions, Part #1020.

The 1020 features one open T-slot on each of the 1" sides and two open T-slots on each of the 2" sides.

Content includes the following:

    1 pc @ 50.7"
    1 pc @ 51.75"
these come up all the time for sale on 80/20 site
 I just ordered
2 each 96.5 " 1 x 3 track
2 each 48 "  1 x 3 track
 4 each  1x1 48" tracks
 for my up coming Ho'made MFT

The shipping is high.
CT 26 HEPA, MFT/3 (2), TS 75 EQ, OF 1400 EQ,  DF 500 SET, CXS SET, C 15+3 SET, Ti-15 Basic, CENTROTEC INSTALLER SET 98-PC, TRADESMAN/INSTALLER CLEANING SET, DOMINO ASSORTMENT SYSTEM, LR 32 HOLE DRILLING SET, GUIDE RAIL FS 3000 (1), GUIDE RAIL ACCESSORY KIT, GUIDE RAIL FS 1400/2  (2), GUIDE RAIL FS 1900/2  (2), GUIDE RAIL FS 1400/2 LR 32  (1), Veritas MFT Clamping Kit,  Imperial & Metric Zorbo Forstner Bit Sets, RO 90, ETS 150/3, PSB 420 EBQ w/Accessory Kit, WCR-1000, PARALLEL GUIDE SET, CT 26 BOOM ARM SET, Veritas® Drilling Kit, MFK 700 EQ Router Set

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #120 on: October 19, 2013, 06:53 PM »
this stuff would make a more useful fence & give more options for other uses
 cheaper as well    

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370920025332?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
 gotta love that 80/20 stuff  [tongue]

What's the length?
cut & paste from the Ebay site
Quote
One Lot (2pcs) of 80/20 Inc 10 Series 1" x 2" T-Slot Aluminum Extrusions, Part #1020.

The 1020 features one open T-slot on each of the 1" sides and two open T-slots on each of the 2" sides.

Content includes the following:

    1 pc @ 50.7"
    1 pc @ 51.75"
these come up all the time for sale on 80/20 site
 I just ordered
2 each 96.5 " 1 x 3 track
2 each 48 "  1 x 3 track
 4 each  1x1 48" tracks
 for my up coming Ho'made MFT

The shipping is high.
as with other Ebay vendors you put multiples into your cart & they give a estimate of shipping , then you "  Commit to Buy " BUT don't pay them at that moment & ask for a adjusted shipping rate
 it is heavy AL products  I ordered about $300.oo in rails & the estimate adjusted the listed  shipping  rate down by 75% ,I committed to buy & asked for a adjusted rate , which should lower some more & save on taxes .
 they haven't got back at me yet as I placed it this morning
 there is a link on each auction page that takes you to how to buy multiples
here's that link http://stores.ebay.com/8020-Inc-Garage-Sale/BUYING.html
 if you want to win a auction & have "buy it now" items as well ,then you just wait till the auction win & it's added to your cart
BUT then pay for everything at once when you done winning auctions & "buy-it-now"
 I've been a Ebay seller/buyer for years , so I have experience in how to use the Ebay invoicing system to save on shipping  any questions just PM me
 I Am Not a 80/20 employee &/or in any way aligned with them , just a hobbyist  [embarassed]
 but back on Topic !
 Peter the new  Vid on the planer is Very well done  as all ways  [big grin]
 I plan on adding the smaller  Parf dogs from LV to the rails I just bought to make a few drop in fences
 this a great thread !
« Last Edit: October 19, 2013, 06:56 PM by Slappy »
Mike

Offline barnowl

  • Posts: 252
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #121 on: October 20, 2013, 07:25 AM »
Just ordered my Parf dogs and table dogs from Lee Valley, even though I have Qwas dogs and rail dogs.

If I got 1 pair of each, and 4 knobs, the shipping was $8.95.

So I checked to see what the shipping would be if I doubled the order....er...$9.95.


No brainer.

Double order it is.

 ;)
best wishes,

Steve

TS-55, assorted rails, Domino, Kapex, OF1400, ETS 125 EQ, RO 125 FEQ, RO 90, PSB 300 EQ, CT-22, CT-26, MFT-3

Offline NYC Tiny Shop

  • Posts: 932
    • jamesfinndesign.com
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #122 on: October 20, 2013, 07:34 AM »
Congratulations, Peter! It's nice to see one of the good guys have some success!

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 513
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #123 on: October 20, 2013, 09:23 AM »
One observation I have about the Parf dogs is that if you are cross-cutting 19mm thick material, the guide rail is not raised quite high enough for the body of the TS55R motor (motor housing) to clear the top of the dogs. I had not anticipated this lack of clearance and was puzzled when the saw met resistance and then tilted over cutting into the splinter guard a mm or so (and the wood also). This does appear to limit the length of cut you can achieve on material of this thickness as you would have to start the cut with the motor housing forward of the top of the Parf dog. You could extend the maximum length of cut by plunging the saw into the end of the stock rather than starting with it already plunged. There are of course other solutions such as placing a board under the one to be cut but that would require Parf dogs rather than short dogs to be used for aligning the stock. Alternatively, the board could be rotated through 90 degrees but that may not be convenient for long boards if the MFT is up against a wall and it would mean a shorter length of the board was used for alignment (as there are fewer holes along the short side of the MFT).

I think it would be good to have different heights of Parf dog so that when cutting thinner (but very common) thicknesses of material such as this 19mm mdf, the saw can pass over the dogs. Alternatively, maybe it would be possible to have a shorter Parf dog with an 8mm threaded hole with extensions that can be inserted when required?
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline John Bates

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 208
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #124 on: October 20, 2013, 09:27 AM »
That's where the Low Profile Dogs come in handy
Manufacturer's agent. Representing CMT Orange, Veto Pro Pac, Flexifoam, Fastcap, Bondhus, M.K.Morse, S.I.T. Colt Maxicut and Rotastop wave shaft, Bruns Tool holders, Chattahoochee pencils,  Rolgear screwdrivers. Thingamajig
scribing tool. Sharpedge. Famag. Atlas 46. Occidental Leather.

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1136
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #125 on: October 20, 2013, 09:43 AM »
One observation I have about the Parf dogs is that if you are cross-cutting 19mm thick material, the guide rail is not raised quite high enough for the body of the TS55R motor (motor housing) to clear the top of the dogs. I had not anticipated this lack of clearance and was puzzled when the saw met resistance and then tilted over cutting into the splinter guard a mm or so (and the wood also). This does appear to limit the length of cut you can achieve on material of this thickness as you would have to start the cut with the motor housing forward of the top of the Parf dog. You could extend the maximum length of cut by plunging the saw into the end of the stock rather than starting with it already plunged. There are of course other solutions such as placing a board under the one to be cut but that would require Parf dogs rather than short dogs to be used for aligning the stock. Alternatively, the board could be rotated through 90 degrees but that may not be convenient for long boards if the MFT is up against a wall and it would mean a shorter length of the board was used for alignment (as there are fewer holes along the short side of the MFT).

I think it would be good to have different heights of Parf dog so that when cutting thinner (but very common) thicknesses of material such as this 19mm mdf, the saw can pass over the dogs. Alternatively, maybe it would be possible to have a shorter Parf dog with an 8mm threaded hole with extensions that can be inserted when required?

Peter addressed this issue in his video.

Offline barnowl

  • Posts: 252
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #126 on: October 20, 2013, 09:46 AM »
One observation I have about the Parf dogs is that if you are cross-cutting 19mm thick material, the guide rail is not raised quite high enough for the body of the TS55R motor (motor housing) to clear the top of the dogs. I had not anticipated this lack of clearance and was puzzled when the saw met resistance and then tilted over cutting into the splinter guard a mm or so (and the wood also). This does appear to limit the length of cut you can achieve on material of this thickness as you would have to start the cut with the motor housing forward of the top of the Parf dog. You could extend the maximum length of cut by plunging the saw into the end of the stock rather than starting with it already plunged. There are of course other solutions such as placing a board under the one to be cut but that would require Parf dogs rather than short dogs to be used for aligning the stock. Alternatively, the board could be rotated through 90 degrees but that may not be convenient for long boards if the MFT is up against a wall and it would mean a shorter length of the board was used for alignment (as there are fewer holes along the short side of the MFT).

I think it would be good to have different heights of Parf dog so that when cutting thinner (but very common) thicknesses of material such as this 19mm mdf, the saw can pass over the dogs. Alternatively, maybe it would be possible to have a shorter Parf dog with an 8mm threaded hole with extensions that can be inserted when required?

I don't follow you.

The video shows cuts with the Parf dogs.


the Parf Dogs can be used to achieve dead accurate crosscuts on the MFT/3 table without the use of the fence. There are other uses but the crosscutting feature sells me on them.

Dave
best wishes,

Steve

TS-55, assorted rails, Domino, Kapex, OF1400, ETS 125 EQ, RO 125 FEQ, RO 90, PSB 300 EQ, CT-22, CT-26, MFT-3

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #127 on: October 20, 2013, 10:57 AM »
If the Parf Dogs are placed in such that the saw has to pass one or both then a small spacer (parallel narrow strip of wood) is used between the fence and the Parf Dogs to move the saw (and fence) to the right. Ideally the Parf Dogs should be located in the first and 7th rows which not only avoids the use of the parallel spacer but also makes the cut even more accurate.

Peter

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 513
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #128 on: October 20, 2013, 11:33 AM »
Peter, I can see how using a spacer between the back of the guide rail and the Parf dogs would solve the problem. When you say "fence" are you meaning the back of the guide rail? (I thought the idea was to avoid having to use a fence).  I was already using holes in rows one and seven but the piece I was cutting was at the limits of what could be cut with this arrangement.

I didn't see this issue being addressed in the video - I watched this one:



I would be grateful if someone could tell me if this was the correct video and where it is mentioned (I skipped over the parts involving trammels and replicating MFTs as I didn't imagine they would cover the basics).
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline Sometimewoodworker

  • Posts: 683
    • Jerome's  Other work
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #129 on: October 20, 2013, 10:13 PM »
One observation I have about the Parf dogs is that if you are cross-cutting 19mm thick material, the guide rail is not raised quite high enough for the body of the TS55R motor (motor housing) to clear the top of the dogs. I had not anticipated this lack of clearance and was puzzled when the saw met resistance and then tilted over cutting into the splinter guard a mm or so (and the wood also). This does appear to limit the length of cut you can achieve on material of this thickness as you would have to start the cut with the motor housing forward of the top of the Parf dog. You could extend the maximum length of cut by plunging the saw into the end of the stock rather than starting with it already plunged. There are of course other solutions such as placing a board under the one to be cut but that would require Parf dogs rather than short dogs to be used for aligning the stock. Alternatively, the board could be rotated through 90 degrees but that may not be convenient for long boards if the MFT is up against a wall and it would mean a shorter length of the board was used for alignment (as there are fewer holes along the short side of the MFT).

I think it would be good to have different heights of Parf dog so that when cutting thinner (but very common) thicknesses of material such as this 19mm mdf, the saw can pass over the dogs. Alternatively, maybe it would be possible to have a shorter Parf dog with an 8mm threaded hole with extensions that can be inserted when required?

You need to use the low profile dog.

if that is too low then add a short length of 8mm threaded rod and a sleeve.

RMW has dogs that are virtually the same as the short Parf dog. I made a little demonstration of some uses of them about 20months ago

short threaded dog ideas


The quality isn't very good but you can get the general idea. The main point was as a demonstration of using the dogs as a hold-down not a short top post but you can see one at the end of the batten.

I seldom use them as hold-downs and if I did I would use something better than the temporary section of MFT surface the purpose was as an example of what different things can be done with a piece of 8mm studding and a threaded dog. .
« Last Edit: October 20, 2013, 11:46 PM by Jerome »
Jerome
TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, CXS, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone, Workshop supplies drum sander, & WoodRat. Don't have don't want list: MFT
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nui-jerome/

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #130 on: October 21, 2013, 01:00 AM »
I have been having problems posting...

To answer Cliff's point I have created 4 diagrams but I cannot upload them at the moment - Shane is helping.

In 95% of cuts (for me) there is no issue with the saw touching the Parf Dogs.

The pictures will demonstrate once I can do the upload.

The new video will cover this in detail.

Peter

Thanks to Shane for sorting out my nonsense with the diagrams.

The first and second diagram show how the saw may hit a Parf Dog depending on depth of cut and exact positioning.

The third diagram shows the setup for 95% of all of the cuts that I do - the Parf Dogs do not get in the way at all.

In the final diagram I show the spacer setup which is what I use for the 5% of other cuts.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 01:35 PM by Peter Parfitt »

Offline dicktill

  • Posts: 250
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #131 on: October 22, 2013, 03:38 PM »
Hi Peter & Rob,

Just received my first 4 Parf Dogs (and 4 small dogs), and they're great, in fact (sorry, can't restrain myself) they're "Parfect".

 [thanks] Dick

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 513
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #132 on: October 22, 2013, 04:09 PM »
Peter, thanks for the diagrams. I am very happy with my set too :)
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #133 on: October 22, 2013, 04:45 PM »
Well, I have just received my Parf Dogs and Bench Dogs from Lee Valley - Rob and his team have made an excellent job. They are every bit up to the standard that we would expect under the Veritas name and I am still pinching myself that I have had something to do with all of this.

I am going to go flat out to produce the new video and when it is up I will delete the old one - I am sorry if that produces some missing links here and there.

In the new video you will see how the Parf Dogs can be used to make perfect right angle cuts. You will see them in use with the MFT3, TS55 and guide rail. I will show how those perfect cuts can be made without the MFT3 and even without the guide rail. I will show how you can take a pair of Parf Dogs to a job site and create an impromptu cutting bench for perfect right angled cuts using any circular saw, even without guide rails with no MFT3 in sight.

Peter

Offline Ivan T

  • Posts: 74
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #134 on: October 22, 2013, 09:31 PM »
I received a set of parfdogs this week. Tried them out for a little bit today. Peter would you touch on the use of another board of the same thickness as the piece you are cutting so the guiderail stays flat during the cut, on your video.

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #135 on: October 23, 2013, 01:12 AM »
I received a set of parfdogs this week. Tried them out for a little bit today. Peter would you touch on the use of another board of the same thickness as the piece you are cutting so the guiderail stays flat during the cut, on your video.

Hi Ivan,

Yes, I will.

If there are any other areas that need to be covered just add the requests to this thread - it would help to have these within the next 24 hours (most of the running order has been mapped out). I cannot promise to do everything but I will try.

Peter

Offline TheTassieBFG

  • Posts: 83
Re: Parf Dogs Now available for shipment...
« Reply #136 on: October 23, 2013, 06:15 AM »
Hi -

These are now in stock, and available for shipment!

...... Even have orders headed for export (UK and Australia, so far).

Rob


Hi Rob.. Do you have a shipment on its way to a reseller in Australia or is it that individuals have bought some? I am at the stage of spending some money (Birthday money is a wonderful thing) and am wondering if I should order from Canada or if there will be someone a bit closer to purchase from?

I tried doing a quick search to make sure this has not come up in topic to no avail so I am hoping this has not been answered previously.

cheers

Andrew

Offline Rob Lee

  • Festool Dealer
  • *
  • Posts: 145
    • Lee Valley/Veritas
Re: Parf Dogs Now available for shipment...
« Reply #137 on: October 23, 2013, 07:31 AM »


Hi Rob.. Do you have a shipment on its way to a reseller in Australia or is it that individuals have bought some? I am at the stage of spending some money (Birthday money is a wonderful thing) and am wondering if I should order from Canada or if there will be someone a bit closer to purchase from?

I tried doing a quick search to make sure this has not come up in topic to no avail so I am hoping this has not been answered previously.

cheers

Andrew

Hi Andrew -

Carbatec has ordered them, and will be stocking them - so probably best to wait for them to arrive there....

Cheers -

Rob

Offline barnowl

  • Posts: 252
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #138 on: October 23, 2013, 09:21 AM »
...
I am going to go flat out to produce the new video and when it is up I will delete the old one - I am sorry if that produces some missing links here and there.

In the new video you will see how the Parf Dogs can be used to make perfect right angle cuts. You will see them in use with the MFT3, TS55 and guide rail. I will show how those perfect cuts can be made without the MFT3 and even without the guide rail. I will show how you can take a pair of Parf Dogs to a job site and create an impromptu cutting bench for perfect right angled cuts using any circular saw, even without guide rails with no MFT3 in sight.

Peter

Er.... ya ain't done yet?

 [laughing]
best wishes,

Steve

TS-55, assorted rails, Domino, Kapex, OF1400, ETS 125 EQ, RO 125 FEQ, RO 90, PSB 300 EQ, CT-22, CT-26, MFT-3

Offline cliffp

  • Posts: 513
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #139 on: October 23, 2013, 09:58 AM »
Peter, do you have a recommendation of what to use as a spacer? Would the MFT/3 fence be suitable? If wood, which type, bearing in mind the tendency of some to warp, be soft or have other issues?
T15+3 set, CXS set, Centrotec set (2011), TS55REBQ, TS75EQ, 1400 rail, 1900 rail, 1400 LR32 rail, LR32 set, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, Guide rail adapter, edging plate, angle arm, chip catcher, small bore base, MFS400, MFS1000 profiles, RO90DX, RO150, ETS150/3, Domino DF500, Domino assortment systainer, CTL Midi, compact cleaning set, CMS GE, TS75 Module, OF Module, VL and VB extensions, LA Stopper, Sliding table, Carvex 420 Li 18 GG, core maker set, EHL65EQ, Syslite.

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #140 on: October 23, 2013, 11:27 AM »
Peter, do you have a recommendation of what to use as a spacer? Would the MFT/3 fence be suitable? If wood, which type, bearing in mind the tendency of some to warp, be soft or have other issues?

Hi Cliff

The MFT fence would be great but I keep a piece of 10mm MDF cut specially for the job. My workshop does not suffer great changes in humidity and so stability is not an issue.

Just to update the possibility of the saw touching the Parf Dogs - The top (furthest from the operator) Parf should never be in the way of a TS55 - my new film will make this quite clear. The only time a Parf may touch the saw is at the start of a cut with very wide boards (from memory I think that is over 510mm for cuts across the MFT3 and 810mm for cuts along the MFT3 - again covered in the film).

I have just made up my best jig yet for cutting 20mm holes and it works brilliantly - it took 2 minutes to make and the holes are perfect - even if I say so myself!

Peter


Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #141 on: October 23, 2013, 02:16 PM »
Hello Peter,
What am I missing?
 I just did a quick layout and it appears if I trim ~16mm from two of my Parf's length (leaving them ~44mm long) my TS55 motor housing will pass over them when cutting 19mm ply, etc.  
This eliminates the need for a spacer parallel and still leaves them long enough to pass through two thicknesses of 3/4" MDF for replicating MFT tops.

What other purposes have you found that require the full 60mm original length?

I haven't trimmed mine down yet, I intend to wait until I upgrade to the TS55REQ to see if the numbers will work for it also.

Your thoughts please.  I was wrong one other time...   [unsure]

Ron
Hi Ron,

I did a kitchen, not long ago, that had unusually thick solid wood worktops - 50 mm, I think. My worry has always been that people will run into other situations that might demand taller Parf Dogs. If they are created long (as now) people can always cut them down if they wish but they cannot be made longer. I have had no problems with the TS55 hitting a Parf Dog and will show this in the new video. I was probably exaggerating when I said that 5% of my cuts needed a spacer - it is probably more like 1 %.

I have used my TS55 and guide rails for doing rebate scoring (a cut on either side with the TS, perhaps a couple of extra cuts in between) and then cleaned up with the router. In thicker stock one may need the taller Parfs for such rebate work. I have not done one for may years but stair case work comes to mind.

If you are doing a cut completely through a piece of wood then the saw body is at the same height above the MFT3 (and above the Parf Dogs) regardless of the thickness of the material being cut - the saw blade will cut (say) 2mm into the top of the MFT regardless of the thickness of wood being cut and hence the saw body is always going to be in the same position in relation to the Parfs. The top Parf will not interfere with a TS55 saw cut even if the wood being cut is against it. The only chance of touching the Parf with the TS55 is at the end nearest to the operator. There is no need to use a spacer unless one is cutting stock greater than about 810 mm (the exact measurement will be in the new video). A spacer may be useful to avoid doing a cut greater than 510mm along the length of the MFT3 as opposed to across the width.

I am beginning to wish I had had a second G&T (it is 7pm here !).

Peter
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 02:42 PM by Peter Parfitt »

Offline Davej

  • Posts: 630
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #142 on: October 23, 2013, 02:36 PM »
Glass or bottle ! [wink]
I dont mind growing old but i refuse to grow up

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #143 on: October 23, 2013, 02:39 PM »

Offline CJ'60

  • Posts: 127
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #144 on: October 23, 2013, 03:57 PM »
I can imagine a low profile Parfdog, with a thread cut in its top, e.g. M8.
Then there is a Parfdog extender, with exactly the same diameter of the Parfdog itself, and with a protruding M8 thread. The extender can be screwed on top of the Parfdog to cut thicker stock.
AT-65 EB/1 Plus, CTL Mini, PS 300 EQ, OF1010 EBQ, Domino Set

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #145 on: October 23, 2013, 05:03 PM »
New ideas are great but at the beginning it is best to keep things simple.

The new video will help.

Peter

Offline Sometimewoodworker

  • Posts: 683
    • Jerome's  Other work
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #146 on: October 23, 2013, 08:40 PM »
I can imagine a low profile Parfdog, with a thread cut in its top, e.g. M8.
Then there is a Parfdog extender, with exactly the same diameter of the Parfdog itself, and with a protruding M8 thread. The extender can be screwed on top of the Parfdog to cut thicker stock.

The dog you imagine has been avalible from RWM for about 2 years and is now avalible from leevalley
Stainless-Steel Small Dogs, pair. 05G49.50  $14.50                     
You need to make the extender (I showed this in my video in my earlier post) yourself but it isn't hard and there is no need or real benefit for it to be the same diameter as the Parfdog.

I used lengths of aluminium or stainless steel tubing to make my extensions. You can also make hold-downs, that is the main focus of my video. The hold-downs are simple to make if you have an 8mm tap. All you do us get some 6mm washers and run the tap through the centre then you have the large threaded was here shown in my video. You can drill a washer out but as I used SS washers it was easier to buy the 6mm size. I don't find drilling SS easy  [wink]

short threaded dog ideas
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 10:50 PM by Jerome »
Jerome
TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, CXS, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone, Workshop supplies drum sander, & WoodRat. Don't have don't want list: MFT
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nui-jerome/

Offline NDM

  • Posts: 21
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #147 on: October 23, 2013, 09:12 PM »
New ideas are great but at the beginning it is best to keep things simple.

The new video will help.

Peter

When will the new video be available. My 25/32 router bit came in today and I have 4 days off work to play with my 6 long parf dogs and 6 short parf dogs!!

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #148 on: October 24, 2013, 12:41 AM »
When will the new video be available. My 25/32 router bit came in today and I have 4 days off work to play with my 6 long parf dogs and 6 short parf dogs!!

I began the work before my Parf Dogs arrived. I started at 4am again today (it is normally 6am) and will do the same tomorrow. I will do my best to get it out by tomorrow evening - if the editing goes well. We had a power cut here yesterday which did not help.

Peter

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2556
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #149 on: October 24, 2013, 01:03 AM »
When will the new video be available. My 25/32 router bit came in today and I have 4 days off work to play with my 6 long parf dogs and 6 short parf dogs!!

I began the work before my Parf Dogs arrived. I started at 4am again today (it is normally 6am) and will do the same tomorrow. I will do my best to get it out by tomorrow evening - if the editing goes well. We had a power cut here yesterday which did not help.

Peter


Obviously the old saying - "True talent should not be rushed!!" applies here!   [big grin]


If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline TheTassieBFG

  • Posts: 83
Re: Parf Dogs Now available for shipment...
« Reply #150 on: October 24, 2013, 02:39 AM »
Carbatec has ordered them, and will be stocking them -

Thanks Rob

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #151 on: October 24, 2013, 09:32 AM »
Hi Everyone

I am doing a bit of preliminary editing of the new video and I do not think that I can fit the MFT3 replication in - it is partly due to space withing my (self imposed) 15 minute limit but more because I am looking for a better way to make the holes. I will produce a separate video showing my method of doing this but I am not sure when. If anyone wants some pointers how to do this then you could look at the old Parf Dog video before it is deleted in a couple of days from now.

At the moment my thoughts are that this second video could be done in about 2-3 weeks time but a woodworking chum has given me an idea of a new type of cutter that I could use which might delay that video by quite a bit. If that is the case I will amalgamate that function with the build of a mobile bench (on industrial castors) which will have an MFT style top.

I am aiming to get the main Parf Dog video up within 48 hours.

Peter

Offline barnowl

  • Posts: 252
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #152 on: October 24, 2013, 05:09 PM »
Got my sets of dogs yesterday.

Great product, as designed by Peter, and machined to absolute perfection by Rob Lee and his outstanding company.

But hey, what else would one expect?

 ;)
best wishes,

Steve

TS-55, assorted rails, Domino, Kapex, OF1400, ETS 125 EQ, RO 125 FEQ, RO 90, PSB 300 EQ, CT-22, CT-26, MFT-3

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #153 on: October 24, 2013, 05:24 PM »
I think that it was Archimedes who said 'give me a lever long enough and I can lift the world...' well, in my work with the new Parf Dogs I will demonstrate that given a work surface big enough and with a long enough guide rail you can do perfect cuts, using the Parf Dogs, on any width or length of timber - my workshop will never be the same again.

Time for bed.

Peter

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #154 on: October 25, 2013, 01:59 PM »
The new Parf Dog video is now on YouTube and the old one is about to bite the dust.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-sales-dealer-area/veritas-parf-dogs-from-lee-valley-the-video/

Peter

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1136
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #155 on: October 25, 2013, 05:59 PM »
The new Parf Dog video is now on YouTube and the old one is about to bite the dust.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-sales-dealer-area/veritas-parf-dogs-from-lee-valley-the-video/

Peter

Excellent Peter!  Thank you so much for producing that for us.  Much appreciated.

Offline Charlie Hill

  • Posts: 41
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #156 on: October 26, 2013, 04:53 PM »
Peter

These look really useful - well done.

I will order some once stock arrives at Axminster.


Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #157 on: November 16, 2013, 02:58 AM »
Lee Valley sell an accompanying bench dog that has the same boss size as the Parf Dogs. They have an 8mm thread all the way through.

I am (still) making my new mobile bench and needed a way to hold wood vertically in order to do some Domino work. I put a pair of the threaded dogs in with a knob under the bench to secure them in place. I then put a Bessey K Body Revo over them and secured it in place using a second pair of knobs (with 8mm thread). I had to use a gash piece of wood with an 8mm hole as a packing piece.

The net result is a very useful vice at the side of the bench. I used it for over an hour whilst doing all of my Domino joints and, as it is so quick to set up, and will use it again.

Peter

Offline NYC Tiny Shop

  • Posts: 932
    • jamesfinndesign.com
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #158 on: November 16, 2013, 06:32 AM »
Ordered mine...will use for my homemade parallel guide system and the Aerofix.

Offline Brian Livingstone

  • Posts: 119
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #159 on: November 16, 2013, 07:51 AM »

Hello,

I purchased a pair of the large and small "Parf Dogs", as soon as they were available at my favorite Festool dealer.  I have been using them everyday.  Every time I use them I think of a talented gentleman who I know vicariously through the internet, and who speaks the Queen's english in the most eloquent manner.  Somehow my woodworking experience is more pleasant as a result. 

To corroborate the words of their inventor, they are brilliant !

Brian

Fall River, Nova Scotia, Canada
Kapex, TS75, MFT, OF1010, OF1400, DTS400 REQ, Parallel guide rails, 1080, 1400, 3000 guide rail, Domino 500, CT36, ETS 150/3, RS2E, Crown stops, 6 drawer Sortainer, Carvex, Syslite II, Festool safety glasses must start to wear.

Offline andy5405

  • Posts: 398
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #160 on: November 17, 2013, 09:31 AM »

To corroborate the words of their inventor, they are brilliant !

Brian

Fall River, Nova Scotia, Canada

I couldn't agree more and one thinks that one could take some of the glory on that one.

 Click this link to see when the idea was first discussed on the FOG.



Here's two of the images I posted on the linked thread above in September 2011.

95870-0

95874-1

I just checked the original design folder on my hard drive and I created those drawings in April 2011 and posted them on here on a thread with the word "dogs" in the title. I wouldn't be so bold as to say they should be called "Andy Dogs" but I think I might deserve a little credit. It's also worth noting that at the time the only Festool I owned wast a PS300 and I had never used a TS55, guide rail or MFT. It was all in my head so if Peter's brilliant I've run out of superlatives for myself.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 09:54 AM by andy5405 »

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #161 on: November 17, 2013, 09:57 AM »

To corroborate the words of their inventor, they are brilliant !

Brian

Fall River, Nova Scotia, Canada

I couldn't agree more and one thinks that one could take some of the glory on that one. Click this link to see where the idea was first discussed on the FOG.

There are many similar concepts out there but few seem to have been brought to market.

I came up with the Parf Dog concept after reviewing the rail dogs for a UK national magazine. My problem with the rail dogs was that they were a little fiddly but I am a touch arthritic. I felt that a pair of fixed posts was the way forward and hence the Parf Dog with an 8mm thread underneath.

It was interesting to see the many ideas for home made MFT tops on that thread. My mobile bench is nearly complete and I have yet to settle on a pattern for the holes. The only design element that I have fixed is that the outer holes (top, bottom and both sides) and the second row along the top will be placed very accurately for precision right angle work. The position of the majority of the remaining holes will not be critical as they will be used mainly for impromptu jig work or clamping points.

I have made the extension flaps and have put some old MDF top into them but I can replace these if I need a different pattern.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 01:57 AM by Peter Parfitt »

Offline andy5405

  • Posts: 398
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #162 on: November 17, 2013, 10:07 AM »

There are many similar concepts out there but few seem to have been brought to market.


I don't think we are talking about a similar concept, to my mind my idea is identical. I just thought I might be worthy of a little credit.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 12:38 PM by andy5405 »

Offline windmill man

  • Posts: 671
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #163 on: November 17, 2013, 03:27 PM »
Would not hold your breath on that one. Plagiarism is common place these days .

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #164 on: November 17, 2013, 03:48 PM »
I unwittingly copied your template idea, had no idea you had discussed it before (almost to the letter) - the 30mm guide bush holes and the registration 20mm holes in the corners (my particular take on it anyway). Discussed it at length with Steve Qwas over email too, don't think he'd twigged it had been discussed before either. Only saw your idea when you posted the link earlier. Uncanny. I'll take some photos if you're interested in it and never got round to it yourself.

When getting a new 8x4 sheet CNCd up I got them to whip out a template on half a sheet too so I wouldn't be bothering them again. Works a charm too.

However, that said, anyone with access to the SQL database behind this forum would be able to say which user has seen what post at what time. Just saying.
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline woodguy7

  • Posts: 2727
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #165 on: November 17, 2013, 03:57 PM »
Andy, credit is over rated. A percentage of sales, now that's different  ;)
If its made of wood, i can make it smaller.
Shirt size medium
p.s- ive started reading these too

Offline windmill man

  • Posts: 671
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #166 on: November 17, 2013, 03:59 PM »
It's the folk that make the most noise that generally claim the idea.  I think I will stick to cutting up 20 mm electrical plastic conduit , to achieve the same results .  Oh heck I should not have let that one out the bag as someone will claim that idea and market them as "saw safe" dogs

Offline windmill man

  • Posts: 671
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #167 on: November 17, 2013, 04:00 PM »
Would definitely not hold my breath on a percentage .

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 10772
  • Let's Redux / Revive / Rewind / Rollback the FOG!
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #168 on: November 17, 2013, 04:41 PM »
Apparently their are some feelings out there about Dog designs.  I would suggest that the parties involved contact each other away from the Forum.  The Forum doesn't have a dog in this hunt.  Also, how about the rest of us not throw any more grease on the fire.

Thanks in advance.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Davej

  • Posts: 630
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #169 on: November 17, 2013, 05:21 PM »
It's the folk that make the most noise that generally claim the idea.  I think I will stick to cutting up 20 mm electrical plastic conduit , to achieve the same results .  Oh heck I should not have let that one out the bag as someone will claim that idea and market them as "saw safe" dogs



Copycat  [tongue] [big grin]. We need to thrash out the royalty percentage  [big grin] [big grin]. 0 percent of nowt = nowt . But being happy with what works for us = happy days
Dave
I dont mind growing old but i refuse to grow up

Offline windmill man

  • Posts: 671
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #170 on: November 17, 2013, 05:24 PM »
Peter. We do have a "dog in this hunt" members post on here ideas and tips freely. In my book it's bad form ,if these ideas are taken and exploited. It's even worse if the originator is not given credit  ,for it and the exploiters then pass the ideas off as their own. At least be honest and if you take an idea and develop it , describe yourself as the developer and give due credit to the originator of the idea and this forum as the place where it was posted originally.

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 10772
  • Let's Redux / Revive / Rewind / Rollback the FOG!
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #171 on: November 17, 2013, 05:47 PM »
You want me to  be honest.  OK.

1.  There is absolutely no proof that anyone took someone else's idea.  Whereas putting round pegs in round holes has been around since the beginning of the first cabinet maker's workbench I sincerely doubt that any dog ideas are patentable.  Otherwise Steve Adams would have.

2.  If someone has an idea that they think might be patentable and saleable - you do not post it on the internet until you have a patent in place.  To do otherwise would be counterproductive.

You are right, this Forum is about freely sharing help and ideas.  Once an idea is out here it is available to the over 3,000,000 viewers monthly.

Peter

Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1785
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #172 on: November 17, 2013, 05:54 PM »
Jerry work used 20mm threaded couplings to take advantage of the hole pattern to guarantee square assemblies and I remember reading that way before 2010.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 1674
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #173 on: November 17, 2013, 06:48 PM »
You want me to  be honest.  OK.

1.  There is absolutely no proof that anyone took someone else's idea.  Whereas putting round pegs in round holes has been around since the beginning of the first cabinet maker's workbench I sincerely doubt that any dog ideas are patentable.  Otherwise Steve Adams would have.

2.  If someone has an idea that they think might be patentable and saleable - you do not post it on the internet until you have a patent in place.  To do otherwise would be counterproductive.

You are right, this Forum is about freely sharing help and ideas.  Once an idea is out here it is available to the over 3,000,000 viewers monthly.

Peter

3 million hits (page views) or unique viewers?
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline overanalyze

  • Posts: 405
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #174 on: November 17, 2013, 06:53 PM »
We all have a million dollar idea in our lifetime...some of us a couple. Some are lucky and capitalize on it and some see it later in life and say I thought of that.....

Offline Sometimewoodworker

  • Posts: 683
    • Jerome's  Other work
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #175 on: November 17, 2013, 07:01 PM »
It's the folk that make the most noise that generally claim the idea.  I think I will stick to cutting up 20 mm electrical plastic conduit , to achieve the same results .  Oh heck I should not have let that one out the bag as someone will claim that idea and market them as "saw safe" dogs
The 20 mm electrical plastic conduit idea was talked about in 2008 / 2009. I didn't originate it but did post a thread which used them "20mm hole on a 96mm grid system (mft-top-style)"


I'm all for the sharing of information. It's one of the ways we get inspiration for new designs. I try to credit the source where I can.
Jerome
TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, CXS, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone, Workshop supplies drum sander, & WoodRat. Don't have don't want list: MFT
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nui-jerome/

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 10772
  • Let's Redux / Revive / Rewind / Rollback the FOG!
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #176 on: November 17, 2013, 07:08 PM »
You want me to  be honest.  OK.

1.  There is absolutely no proof that anyone took someone else's idea.  Whereas putting round pegs in round holes has been around since the beginning of the first cabinet maker's workbench I sincerely doubt that any dog ideas are patentable.  Otherwise Steve Adams would have.

2.  If someone has an idea that they think might be patentable and saleable - you do not post it on the internet until you have a patent in place.  To do otherwise would be counterproductive.

You are right, this Forum is about freely sharing help and ideas.  Once an idea is out here it is available to the over 3,000,000 viewers monthly.

Peter

3 million hits (page views) or unique viewers?

Forgive me.  Page views.  The point is still that if you want to keep a secret you don't post it on the FOG.
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Sometimewoodworker

  • Posts: 683
    • Jerome's  Other work
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #177 on: November 17, 2013, 07:12 PM »

. My mobile bench is nearly complete and I have yet to settle on a pattern for the holes. The only design element that I have fixed is that the outer holes (top, bottom and both sides) and the second row along the top will be placed very accurately for precision right angle work. The position of the majority of the remaining holes will not be critical as they will be used mainly for impromptu jig work or clamping points.

I have made the extension flaps and have put some old MDF top into them but I can replace these if I need a different pattern.

Peter
Having been using my MFT style/inspired bench for the last 4 years, where I copied the 96mm grid, I have found that sometimes the pattern is very useful.

The really important point for me is that all rows are at 90degrees to all columns
Jerome
TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, CXS, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone, Workshop supplies drum sander, & WoodRat. Don't have don't want list: MFT
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nui-jerome/

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 1674
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #178 on: November 17, 2013, 07:16 PM »
You want me to  be honest.  OK.

1.  There is absolutely no proof that anyone took someone else's idea.  Whereas putting round pegs in round holes has been around since the beginning of the first cabinet maker's workbench I sincerely doubt that any dog ideas are patentable.  Otherwise Steve Adams would have.

2.  If someone has an idea that they think might be patentable and saleable - you do not post it on the internet until you have a patent in place.  To do otherwise would be counterproductive.

You are right, this Forum is about freely sharing help and ideas.  Once an idea is out here it is available to the over 3,000,000 viewers monthly.

Peter

3 million hits (page views) or unique viewers?

Forgive me.  Page views.  The point is still that if you want to keep a secret you don't post it on the FOG.

Either one is a bigger number than I would have expected. That's awesome!

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Slappy

  • Posts: 567
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #179 on: November 17, 2013, 07:19 PM »
Quote
The point is still that if you want to keep a secret you don't post it on the FOG.
You don't post it anywhere until you at least document a set of plans
THE best way to that is :
 draw the plans up in detail at least 3 views from all angles
then give a clear detailed description written out in a narrative  
dated & have a 2nd party witness sign that they observed the documents on that dated
THEN send the package of docs to yourself by registered mail
 by you signing for the registered mail in person you have established a legal proof a time/date stamp of the dated materials .
from that moment forward it's your idea legally
 [blink]
Mike

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 10772
  • Let's Redux / Revive / Rewind / Rollback the FOG!
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #180 on: November 17, 2013, 07:35 PM »
Richard,

On the forum homepage you can scroll down to the bottom and under the Forum stats click on the the icon to the left and you will be able to see stuff.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 393
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #181 on: November 17, 2013, 07:42 PM »
Slappy described a process which will work for a copyright. I think patent rights work differently.

Offline Sometimewoodworker

  • Posts: 683
    • Jerome's  Other work
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #182 on: November 17, 2013, 08:03 PM »
Quote
The point is still that if you want to keep a secret you don't post it on the FOG.
You don't post it anywhere until you at least document a set of plans
THE best way to that is :
 draw the plans up in detail at least 3 views from all angles
then give a clear detailed description written out in a narrative  
dated & have a 2nd party witness sign that they observed the documents on that dated
THEN send the package of docs to yourself by registered mail
 by you signing for the registered mail in person you have established a legal proof a time/date stamp of the dated materials .
from that moment forward it's your idea legally
 [blink]

this will not work in the US it provides NO protection  http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#what
Quote
]I’ve heard about a “poor man’s copyright.” What is it?
The practice of sending a copy of your own work to yourself is sometimes called a “poor man’s copyright.” There is no provision in the copyright law regarding any such type of protection, and it is not a substitute for registration.

It may help in the UK http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/services/alternatives   
Quote
Post/envelope systems
Any system where you retain the evidence yourself is very weak as it provides no independent evidence, and means that a court or tribunal would only have your word that you actually placed the work in the envelope at the time of posting.
If you use the postal service (sometimes called ‘poor man’s copyright’), or any commercial system which requires you to store the work yourself, there is no evidence to say that the contents have not been swapped, or that you did not seal the envelope years later. It is so easy to cast doubt on such evidence, we believe it is next to worthless.

http://www.snopes.com/legal/postmark.asp
Jerome
TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, CXS, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone, Workshop supplies drum sander, & WoodRat. Don't have don't want list: MFT
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nui-jerome/

Offline andy5405

  • Posts: 398
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #183 on: November 18, 2013, 04:57 AM »
This has all got a little out of hand and maybe some perspective is needed. First things first, dogs with a myriad of different designs and implementations have been around as long as carpenters have had work benches. Trust me when I say that there is nothing on FOG or Talkfestool that is anything other than a variation on a theme or an improved version of an existing design when it comes to bench dogs or rail dogs or whatever you want to call them. If anyone thinks they have designed or invented something new then they are clearly deluded. It's like taking the wheel and telling people you have made it rounder or better. People would laugh and they should do the same if someone gets confused enough to claim themselves as an inventor of any type dog used in carpentry as they probably were first used in some sort of crude form at about the same time the first wheels were made. I'm aware that my analogy isn't perfect for any lurking pedants but I hope people get my point.

In the past I have put a huge amount of time into researching all the implementations of dogs intended for use specifically with the MFT top, Festool guide rails and plunge saws. That research was initially on the internet in general and I soon realised that 20mm dogs didn't really exist. I didn't own an MFT, track saw or guide rails at the time but had been lusting after them for over 3 years in a way that only Festool addicts would truly understand. This was all happening around 2010-2011. Sometime in 2011 I discovered the existence of Qwas Dogs and subsequently devoured every available thread on the FOG and Talk Festool that discussed their original implementation and user experience.

At the same time and I'm not really sure whether it was before or after I became aware of Qwas dogs I came up with the plans that I have posted on this thread and previously on FOG. It is an identical idea to Peter's implementation that have become known as Parf Dogs. Neither myself nor Peter are brilliant in any way as a result of having identical ideas at different times. Everyone really needs to get this, they are round lumps of aluminium used to attach a straight edge to a workbench. Nothing has been invented. The FOG community is a great resource for sharing and developing ideas but sometimes people can get a bit over zealous when congratulating others for actually inventing something that is merely a variation on a theme. Those being congratulated can sometimes lose perspective and lose track of the fact that their idea has been inspired by countless other ideas learnt both on and offline over a lifetime.

I should at this stage apologise for waffling but I'm getting to my point. There have been a lot of teddies thrown out of quite a few prams ever since Qwas dogs first hit the streets. I threw a small one out of my pram yesterday and Steve himself has done the same in the past. It really is time every drank a can of growing up juice (myself included) and realised that this is a community where we all benefit from sharing each other's ideas. It is childish beyond belief to use that community to your own advantage for any type of commercial gain or the gains we receive in a hobbyist capacity and then get offended when others gain in any way from ideas you have shared publicly. You are only paying something back into the community you have profited from when someone uses your own ideas in any way.

If anyone is still silly enough to want to discuss patents and copyrights in this context I can save people a lot of heartache. I am a trained mechanical engineer and studied patent law as part of that educational process. If you want to patent something there is one golden rule that applies above any other. KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. You can't successfully patent something that is already in the public domain. It's really that simple.

Furthermore if there are any budding entrepreneurs out there that want to take any of the dog ideas on here and sell them commercially I certainly wouldn't be offended. I have certainly considered selling my own idea and possibly a copy of the Qwas Dogs and any other dogs for that matter. It would not be immoral in any way. You simply can't expect to take moral or legal ownership of a round lump of aluminium.

I have had discussions with 2 manufacturers and costed small production runs of 50 dogs of different descriptions. You would be amazed how cheap they are to produce even in small production runs and I mean really cheap! It's not like there are millions of CNC lathes sitting idle all around the world. It's get's better when you consider that you are selling into a community that is conditioned like no other to pay ridiculous money for accessories. Add to that a global market where you can ship your product in a small jiffy bag and it's a slam dunk opportunity for anyone who wants to grab it by the balls.

So let's all get real and play nicely. We're mere fiddlers and fixers who enjoy solving a challenge in a workshop. None of us are brilliant or especially clever. Those accolades should be reserved for people like Einstein and Newton that come along a change he world we live in beyond recognition. They happen once a century, other inspirational inventors come along perhaps once every generation. I could go on (some might say I have!) but none of us on here are even the tiniest blip on the radar in this context.

The FOG is quite simply a global community of inspired woodworkers who share ideas and help each other solve problems. We all take so be prepared to give. 
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 05:04 AM by andy5405 »

Offline andy5405

  • Posts: 398
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #184 on: November 18, 2013, 05:27 AM »
I should add that what I posted yesterday was misguided and I owe Peter an apology. I have edited one of the posts and toned it down considerably though Peter will almost certainly have read the original post and been justifiably offended. I would respectfully ask that there is no more mud slinging on this topic, especially any aimed at Peter. If you need to get out more and want to take it out on someone else then have a go at me. I stirred up the hornet's nest.

Also on the subject of the community and sharing I should confess something that makes me feel rather sanctimonious when I reflect on the last few days. It was only three days ago that I used one of Peter's videos to demonstrate a product to a customer. It was Osmo worktop oil and I'm refinishing some worktops as a freebie and a sweetener to a customer who has become difficult to communicate with. I've dabbled with making videos so have an idea how much work there is involved in producing the quality of videos that Peter does.

He has undoubtedly been one of the most valued contributors to FOG since he has joined and given a lot of his time and expertise for all to share. I have absolutely no issues whatsoever with Peter. It is only my own opinion and if anyone else thinks otherwise that is their right. Even if you disagree with me Peter has earned the right to have the odd faux pas. He is definitely a giver. Are you and should you really be casting the first stone?
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 05:32 AM by andy5405 »

Offline Festoolfootstool

  • Posts: 2076
  • The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #185 on: November 18, 2013, 05:45 AM »
I was tempted to post yesterday but decided not too....but

If we cast our minds back to the time Peter anounced the dogs and later when he did the video,his only reward was the set of dogs that he used in the video

his motivation was not monitary gain. not that it should be an issue..

And where are we now? everyone both sides of the atlantic have access to this product, at what can only be described a very reasonable price..

I have one negative comment and it is directed at the moderation of the latter part of this thread. it was an insult to everyone.

If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline andy5405

  • Posts: 398
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #186 on: November 18, 2013, 06:08 AM »
I unwittingly copied your template idea, had no idea you had discussed it before (almost to the letter) - the 30mm guide bush holes and the registration 20mm holes in the corners (my particular take on it anyway). Discussed it at length with Steve Qwas over email too, don't think he'd twigged it had been discussed before either. Only saw your idea when you posted the link earlier. Uncanny. I'll take some photos if you're interested in it and never got round to it yourself.

When getting a new 8x4 sheet CNCd up I got them to whip out a template on half a sheet too so I wouldn't be bothering them again. Works a charm too.

However, that said, anyone with access to the SQL database behind this forum would be able to say which user has seen what post at what time. Just saying.

And that is how it happens. We're all the same guys trying to overcome the same problems. It really isn't that surprising if we come up with the same ideas. I genuinely believe Peter hadn't seen my original thread.

I remember my engineering thesis very well. 21 students who all had to come up with an original idea, design it, build it and write about our conclusions. A lot of the guys put a lot of effort into coming up with something truly original and we were constantly amazed that everything we came up with had already been done before. We have around 8 billion people in the world and only a tiny percentage are original thinkers.    

I still think my original thesis idea was inspired though and all my peers were in awe of what I produced. The lecturers didn't see it that way and it was marked as the lowest on my whole course. That was politics though as I had ruffled a lot of feathers as a student. Happy days!!

Offline andy5405

  • Posts: 398
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #187 on: November 18, 2013, 06:14 AM »

I have one negative comment and it is directed at the moderation of the latter part of this thread. it was an insult to everyone.


I didn't see almost all of the replies until the next day for me so I can't comment and I'm not particularly interested. I certainly don't always agree with the moderation on here or any other forum for that matter. If we did all agree on everything it would be a very boring world and there would be no need for any form of mediation in any aspect of our lives.

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #188 on: November 18, 2013, 06:25 AM »

I have one negative comment and it is directed at the moderation of the latter part of this thread. it was an insult to everyone.


I didn't see almost all of the replies until the next day for me so I can't comment and I'm not particularly interested. I certainly don't always agree with the moderation on here or any other forum for that matter. If we did all agree on everything it would be a very boring world and there would be no need for any form of mediation in any aspect of our lives.

You need to look at Peter's intervention from my perspective and then you will understand why he wanted to calm things down and I am grateful to him.

I am very grateful for Andy setting the matter straight and for Festoolfootstool for reminding everyone about the early days.

I think that we all need to get together for a beer!

Peter

Offline Sometimewoodworker

  • Posts: 683
    • Jerome's  Other work
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #189 on: November 18, 2013, 06:38 AM »
I think that we all need to get together for a beer!
For you 95930-0
Jerome
TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, CXS, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone, Workshop supplies drum sander, & WoodRat. Don't have don't want list: MFT
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nui-jerome/

Offline andy5405

  • Posts: 398
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #190 on: November 18, 2013, 06:59 AM »
I think the beer idea is a good one!!!! I'm always up for that. And so the storm in a teacup ends. Aren't forums great fun when it's raining outside.

So in conclusion a few people came up with a similar and simple solution to a simple problem. I don't think they will be holding the front pages of any of the UK broadsheets. I don't have any contacts in the Washington Post so you guys across the pond might want to buy it on spec in case they do a follow up piece tomorrow.

For me I'm happy with the fact that Axminster sell something that I had a tiny part in. That's made my day.

For the rest of you take note. Peter had the same idea and actually got up off his arse and did something about it. That is why they are called Parf Dogs.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 07:37 AM by andy5405 »

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 7924
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #191 on: November 18, 2013, 11:20 AM »
Kudos to the forum members involved in this little debate for raining it in,  coming down to earth,  being realistic and going civil.  It is a tribute to the membership in general of this forum that this is the standard way of things on FOG.



Seth 

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2556
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #192 on: November 18, 2013, 03:43 PM »


This all reminds me of a design theory which is akin to osmosis. Best example apart from this most recent one on the FOG is the design of a new type of car in the late 70s. Within months most of the Japanese and European car manufacturers had hatchbacks on the market and they were often very similar, even more so than now. Did they copy each other through industrial espionage, maybe but unlikely given so many started producing them. The more likely reason is that a given set of criteria or engineering problems often have a limited range of design solutions.


I'll have a dark ale thanks.

 [wink]
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 03:45 PM by Untidy Shop (Stephen B) »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #193 on: December 23, 2013, 01:36 PM »
Just to remind everyone that Parf Dogs are not just for Christmas they are for life !

My daughter-in-law came up with this when she thought that she might be getting a pair in her Christmas stocking.

Peter

Offline RonWen

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 1701
    • Ordering
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #194 on: December 23, 2013, 01:58 PM »
Just to remind everyone that Parf Dogs are not just for Christmas they are for life !

My daughter-in-law came up with this when she thought that she might be getting a pair in her Christmas stocking.

Peter

No expiration date?   [blink]

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 4436
  • Burger Babe Says: I Even Buy Green Bananas
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #195 on: December 26, 2013, 02:18 AM »

I have one negative comment and it is directed at the moderation of the latter part of this thread. it was an insult to everyone.


I didn't see almost all of the replies until the next day for me so I can't comment and I'm not particularly interested. I certainly don't always agree with the moderation on here or any other forum for that matter. If we did all agree on everything it would be a very boring world and there would be no need for any form of mediation in any aspect of our lives.

You need to look at Peter's intervention from my perspective and then you will understand why he wanted to calm things down and I am grateful to him.

I am very grateful for Andy setting the matter straight and for Festoolfootstool for reminding everyone about the early days.

I think that we all need to get together for a beer!

Peter

Hey bud you buying?? [big grin]  Nothing goes better then a cold beer and a hotdog with lots of catsup and mustard on it...

I like them so much, I take a little bit with with me to remind me how good it was.(hehehehehehehe)
Loving the Calif sun....

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #196 on: December 26, 2013, 02:30 PM »

Hey bud you buying?? [big grin]  Nothing goes better then a cold beer and a hotdog with lots of catsup and mustard on it...

I like them so much, I take a little bit with with me to remind me how good it was.(hehehehehehehe)

Hi Ron,

I am sure that there will be a chance sometime in 2014. In the meantime keep practicing holding those 15 inch hotdogs.

Peter

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 4436
  • Burger Babe Says: I Even Buy Green Bananas
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #197 on: December 27, 2013, 04:21 AM »
Hotdogs aient the problem, its the catsup.

I always seem to bring a bit home with  me :>D

Hopefully it will be before te D&M show thats way to far away.
Loving the Calif sun....

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #198 on: December 27, 2013, 05:17 AM »
Hotdogs aient the problem, its the catsup.

I always seem to bring a bit home with  me :>D

Hopefully it will be before te D&M show thats way to far away.
Yes, next time we meet at the D&M show it would be a good idea to wear a red T Shirt (or a plastic bag) !

Happy New Year Ron.

Peter
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 09:06 AM by Peter Parfitt »

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 4436
  • Burger Babe Says: I Even Buy Green Bananas
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #199 on: December 28, 2013, 03:24 AM »
I wonder if they make a festool bib  [crying]
Loving the Calif sun....

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #200 on: December 28, 2013, 04:23 AM »
I wonder if they make a festool bib  [crying]

...only any good with green catsup !

I will bring some wet wipes to the D&M Show next year or get some other FOGgers to hose you down after every meal.

Peter

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 4436
  • Burger Babe Says: I Even Buy Green Bananas
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #201 on: December 28, 2013, 11:39 AM »
I wonder if they make a festool bib  [crying]

...only any good with green catsup !

I will bring some wet wipes to the D&M Show next year or get some other FOGgers to hose you down after every meal.

Peter

Hehehehehehe can really see the stain huh? Isnt that a couple of the star wars characters?
Loving the Calif sun....

Offline leer

  • Posts: 255
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #202 on: December 28, 2013, 11:58 AM »

Hey bud you buying?? [big grin]  Nothing goes better then a cold beer and a hotdog with lots of catsup and mustard on it...

I like them so much, I take a little bit with with me to remind me how good it was.(hehehehehehehe)

At the risk of starting another war of words ...

Everyone knows hot dogs should NEVER have catsup on them.  It is mustard.  Relish and onions are permissable, and possibly a few other condiments.   [wink]

Now, to change the topic quickly ...

Peter, I got some Parf Dogs before Christmas from Lee Valley.  Absolutely fantastic.  Firt my custom MFT-style top perfectly. I used the Qwas Dogs for reference when milling, as my benchmark for fit.  The Parf Dogs were "spot on". (Isn't that the appropriate terminology for describing them?   [smile])
Lee

Offline RonWen

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 1701
    • Ordering
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #203 on: December 28, 2013, 01:44 PM »

Hey bud you buying?? [big grin]  Nothing goes better then a cold beer and a hotdog with lots of catsup and mustard on it...

I like them so much, I take a little bit with with me to remind me how good it was.(hehehehehehehe)

At the risk of starting another war of words ...

Everyone knows hot dogs should NEVER have catsup on them.  It is mustard.  Relish and onions are permissable, and possibly a few other condiments.   [wink]

Now, to change the topic quickly ...

Peter, I got some Parf Dogs before Christmas from Lee Valley.  Absolutely fantastic.  Firt my custom MFT-style top perfectly. I used the Qwas Dogs for reference when milling, as my benchmark for fit.  The Parf Dogs were "spot on". (Isn't that the appropriate terminology for describing them?   [smile])

South of the Mason-Dixon line in the U.S. coleslaw & pickle is a very popular topping for dogs. 
http://www.foodnetwork.com/texas-dog/video/index.html

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #204 on: December 28, 2013, 03:06 PM »

Now, to change the topic quickly ...

Peter, I got some Parf Dogs before Christmas from Lee Valley.  Absolutely fantastic.  Firt my custom MFT-style top perfectly. I used the Qwas Dogs for reference when milling, as my benchmark for fit.  The Parf Dogs were "spot on". (Isn't that the appropriate terminology for describing them?   [smile])

Excellent - I would love to see a photo of your setup.

Many thanks.

Peter

Offline leer

  • Posts: 255
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #205 on: December 28, 2013, 05:08 PM »
Peter,
Here is my "MFT-XL" workbench.  I built this in October, before I'd read about the Parf Dogs.  Shown is an FS 1900 rail (and some green Qwas Dogs, if you look closely). I bought this guide rail before the track saw, knowing I need more length than the FS 1400 rail since I wanted the track saw to be able to cut down 4'x8' plywood sheets. Completion of the workbench project was self-imposed, before I rewarded myself with a TS 55 REQ.  Otherwise I figured I'd never build the workbench, instead focusing on other projects.  

The workbench measures 36"x84" (~915mm x 2135mm).  The MDF sheet was 4'x8' (actually most MDF here is sized one inch over the standard 48" x 96" size of plywood), but I needed a little less width and length to fit well in my shop.  I milled 20mm holes on 4" centers (even division into 36" and 84"). I built the workbench to also serve as the outfeed table for my table saw.  And I'm building a cart for my DeWalt planer that will roll up to this bench as an outfeed table.  Of course, I will use high quality locking casters (castors)!

Future additions will be a vise at the end opposite the table saw, and possibly wooden strips along the perimeter of the top with embedded T-Track.  I also want to add some cabinetry and/or drawers below the top.  

98200-0
Lee

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #206 on: December 28, 2013, 11:34 PM »
Hi Lee,

The bench looks really well made and an excellent size - perfect for taking a complete 8x4 for breaking down. Putting castors on a few things in the shop does give a lot of flexibility.

I have made a new castor carriage for my Jet planer so that my mobile bench (900mm high) can act as an extension to the out-feed table for jointing.

Peter

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 868
Re: Parf Dogs how many?
« Reply #207 on: August 29, 2014, 10:23 AM »
I've just ordered my MFT 3 and am looking to get some parf dogs to expand the system, under regular usage scenarios, how many and what types should I get? My first impluse is to get 4 parf and 2  bench dogs anything wrong with this logic? I'll be using the setup with my TS75, OF 1010, Carvex 420. Later a domino 700 and the OF 2020..

Regards

Wade
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 10:39 AM by PreferrablyWood »
850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #208 on: August 29, 2014, 10:44 AM »
Hi Wade

You know that I have a vested interest but I have always advised people to go for 4 Veritas Parf Dogs and 2 of the associated Veritas threaded bench dogs.

For cutting wood on the MFT3 you can get away with a minimum of 2 x Parf and 2 x bench but...

I use my MFT3 or my mobile bench (with 20mm holes everywhere) to set up for Domino cuts. I have made what I call 'Parf Hats' that fit over the Parf Dogs and make a really useful system for reacting wood or friction gripping it during Domino work. You can make these up in minutes - see the picture below. I show them in use in a number of my videos. So having 3 or 4 Parf Hats in use can be very helpful.

Peter


Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 868
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #209 on: August 29, 2014, 10:58 AM »
Love the parf hats, and look forward to trying my new mft 3 with the parf dogs.  First thing to build a work bench with vise!

Thanks for the fast reply Peter..

2 pair of parf dogs and 1 pair of bench dogs it is then..

850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 868
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #210 on: August 29, 2014, 08:41 PM »
After watching your video on the Parf dogs/bench dogs, I see I should get 2 pairs of each so I'm going to try and change my order.

I notice that you (Peter Parfitt) say in the video that with the dogs you don't really need the extra hardware on the full version of the MFT 3, and just to go with the basic, but I feel that at least for newbie's like me being introduced to the MFT 3 komplete gives added confidence when first getting to know the system. These new tools will doubtless lead me on to find new and more efficient ways of working. I have used my own improvised track system in the past, so what attracted me to the MFT 3 was the the guide rail setup with the mitre which I had envisioned would turn my TS 75 into a mitre saw with a very  wide cutting length very respectable 70mm cutting depth..

I'm sure the short rail guide the fence and the stop will be nice to use so those things alone add up to the difference in price between the MFT 3 and the MFT 3 basic..

I do like the your ideas of going for simplicity in setup. If you just want to take a few elements out when doing a few basic processes.
 
To sum up I'm really glad I went with the Parf Dogs, Bench dogs, which add a new dimension to Festools system  and am very  pleased they are available at a competitive price on this side of the pond!
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 08:48 PM by PreferrablyWood »
850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1708
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #211 on: August 29, 2014, 10:20 PM »
After watching your video on the Parf dogs/bench dogs, I see I should get 2 pairs of each so I'm going to try and change my order.

I notice that you (Peter Parfitt) say in the video that with the dogs you don't really need the extra hardware on the full version of the MFT 3, and just to go with the basic, but I feel that at least for newbie's like me being introduced to the MFT 3 komplete gives added confidence when first getting to know the system. These new tools will doubtless lead me on to find new and more efficient ways of working. I have used my own improvised track system in the past, so what attracted me to the MFT 3 was the the guide rail setup with the mitre which I had envisioned would turn my TS 75 into a mitre saw with a very  wide cutting length very respectable 70mm cutting depth..

I'm sure the short rail guide the fence and the stop will be nice to use so those things alone add up to the difference in price between the MFT 3 and the MFT 3 basic..

I do like the your ideas of going for simplicity in setup. If you just want to take a few elements out when doing a few basic processes.
 
To sum up I'm really glad I went with the Parf Dogs, Bench dogs, which add a new dimension to Festools system  and am very  pleased they are available at a competitive price on this side of the pond!

I use the fence and guide rail all the time on my MFT. I do use the dogs for various things, but find that using the MFT3 setup is a quick way to crosscut, miter cut and, with other third party accessories do some ripping also. The one drawback is that I find I need to square the rail to the fence periodically because I tend to bump it when I'm going past the table. I know others on FOG feel using various types of dogs and other accessories is better and they don't use the fence. It's really whatever works for you. If you already have the whole setup try it out and see.
Randy

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 868
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #212 on: August 30, 2014, 02:53 AM »
Thanks grbmds for your insight, it's much like I see it, use the mft 3 for the good it has to offer like relatively easy learning curve with the mitre cuts, clamping system. I feel for such a slick system it is portable, for me 50 pounds is pretty easy to heft around and I'f I need to I can make up a handtruck for moving it around. As far a bumping the track out of square I bought the parf dogs partially because of their usefulness with setting the square!

I think the MFT 3 will work for most of my projects, any additional process that it cannot handle I'll find solutions as they pop up. My first project will be to build a large sheet goods cutting table/wing on foldable sawhorses.. and smaller sturdier workstation table for clamping and sanding larger heavier projects..
850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #213 on: August 30, 2014, 03:55 AM »
After watching your video on the Parf dogs/bench dogs, I see I should get 2 pairs of each so I'm going to try and change my order.

I notice that you (Peter Parfitt) say in the video that with the dogs you don't really need the extra hardware on the full version of the MFT 3, and just to go with the basic, but I feel that at least for newbie's like me being introduced to the MFT 3 komplete gives added confidence when first getting to know the system. These new tools will doubtless lead me on to find new and more efficient ways of working. I have used my own improvised track system in the past, so what attracted me to the MFT 3 was the the guide rail setup with the mitre which I had envisioned would turn my TS 75 into a mitre saw with a very  wide cutting length very respectable 70mm cutting depth..

I'm sure the short rail guide the fence and the stop will be nice to use so those things alone add up to the difference in price between the MFT 3 and the MFT 3 basic..

I do like the your ideas of going for simplicity in setup. If you just want to take a few elements out when doing a few basic processes.
 
To sum up I'm really glad I went with the Parf Dogs, Bench dogs, which add a new dimension to Festools system  and am very  pleased they are available at a competitive price on this side of the pond!

I bought the complete MFT3 kit and do not regret it at all. Now that I have the sliding carriage with the CMS-OF I can use parts from the MFT3 kit there as well. So for that reason you will save money in the long run by buying the complete kit.

Peter

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 868
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #214 on: August 30, 2014, 04:32 AM »
Thanks for the input on the MFT 3 Peter, I was getting a pang of buyers remorse with the full MFT 3 after I heard your remarks, so needed to clarify my thinking. I've previously been interested in the CMS system for the router, so that's a good point you are making about the accesories being compatible there. Though I'm going to go with the Domino before the CMS table, as I feel the Domino offers a core function that I don't have available while the router can be used without the table for now. Perhaps I'll get the OF 2200 and CMS table package deal at some point...spring 2016 perhaps... The Domino will be next up, as soon a funds allow..

Regards

Wade
« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 04:35 AM by PreferrablyWood »
850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #215 on: March 17, 2016, 02:58 PM »
In case there are any Parf Dog users or potential users not aware of this...

The next "Parf" product is now on the street. It is the UJK Parf Guide System being made and marketed by Axminster Tools and Machinery and described in this FOG thread:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-sales-dealer-area/ujk-parf-guide-system-videos/

Peter

Offline VirtuaLogic

  • Posts: 22
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #216 on: January 05, 2017, 06:33 PM »
I don't know if someone else has already brought this up, but after working for a couple of days with the tall Parf Dogs I have a couple of suggestions. When butting the guide rail against the Parf Dogs, if the stock is not thick enough, the TS55 interferes with the Parf dogs when plunged. This can be circumvented by putting a spacer in between the Parf dogs and the rail. However, a homemade spacer is not as accurate as the precision machined dogs. I thought of 2 solutions:

- A set of stainless steel rings, precision machined to fit over the Parf Dogs, to widen the base of the dogs while keeping the precision of the machined steel
- A set of Parf Dogs that are less tall

Or maybe a combination of the above; a set of less tall Parf Dogs with "integrated" extra wide base. :)

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,  Alex.

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #217 on: January 06, 2017, 12:14 AM »
I don't know if someone else has already brought this up, but after working for a couple of days with the tall Parf Dogs I have a couple of suggestions. When butting the guide rail against the Parf Dogs, if the stock is not thick enough, the TS55 interferes with the Parf dogs when plunged. This can be circumvented by putting a spacer in between the Parf dogs and the rail. However, a homemade spacer is not as accurate as the precision machined dogs. I thought of 2 solutions:

- A set of stainless steel rings, precision machined to fit over the Parf Dogs, to widen the base of the dogs while keeping the precision of the machined steel
- A set of Parf Dogs that are less tall

Or maybe a combination of the above; a set of less tall Parf Dogs with "integrated" extra wide base. :)

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,  Alex.

Hi Alex,

On my track saw cutting station I have the top (furthest away from me) Parf Dog in the hole furthest from me and the lower bench dogs in the next line of holes. That way there is no chance of interference and it can be done now without any need for spacers or new products.

Even when using the Parf Dogs in the same row as the lower dogs the interference issue does not happen very often.

Many thanks for the ideas though.

Cheers.

Peter

Offline VirtuaLogic

  • Posts: 22
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #218 on: March 02, 2017, 04:29 PM »
Hi Peter,

I get the interference all the time, because my cutting station is only about 60cm deep.

I've found the interference to be there when cutting thin stock like sheet plywood. And I've also found a solution: flip the lower Parf dog over and insert the long end into the table. The other, shorter end is the same diameter as the long end and works perfectly to butt the guide rail to with no interference.

Another solution would be to rotate the working orientation 90 degrees. This allows for more space between the lower do and te work piece.

Cheers,  Alex

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3693
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Parf Dogs
« Reply #219 on: March 03, 2017, 12:59 AM »
Hi Peter,

I get the interference all the time, because my cutting station is only about 60cm deep.

I've found the interference to be there when cutting thin stock like sheet plywood. And I've also found a solution: flip the lower Parf dog over and insert the long end into the table. The other, shorter end is the same diameter as the long end and works perfectly to butt the guide rail to with no interference.

Another solution would be to rotate the working orientation 90 degrees. This allows for more space between the lower do and te work piece.

Cheers,  Alex

Hi Alex @VirtuaLogic

I have produce an extra hole just beyond my top row and this is another way around the problem. If people are cutting stock then most of the time they can have the top most tall Parf Dog set one row "higher" than the row of small Parf Dogs against which the wood is pushed. This eliminates the problem completely.

Cheers.

Peter