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Author Topic: Re: Guide rail speed square... dedicated 90 for crosscutting and shelf dadoes.  (Read 5724 times)
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Timmy C
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« on: March 5, 2010, 08:03 PM »

This is yet another outstanding invention from Dr.Qwas. Continuing with the
Qwas Branding, the Qwas Rail Fence will be made of 1/8 Aluminum, and will
be black anodized.  

Included with the actual fence will be the brass thumb
screws and bolts that allow you to fasten your Qwas Rail Fence to the rail.
The initial Prototype was cut with water jets today, and will be made
available for final on Monday or Tuesday.  Once the final is approved, the
milling aspect is put "box 1" for fabrication.  We have been using the jig for
several days, and it is a true gem; Time saving, repetative, and accurate as all get out.

Festool Junkie is offering a Pre-Order Yours Today for $54.99 Plus Shipping on the Qwas Rail Fence.  The initial run is for limited to 50 so act quickly, they are moving along nicely.
get em whilst the gettin' is hot.
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Timmy C
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« Reply #1 on: March 6, 2010, 01:13 PM »

I just want to thank the several Qwas fanatics that have pre-ordered their Qwas Rail Fence.  We used it again last night to cross cut some shelving, and man!  It is really slick.  We had a friend in  the shop that is doing an install on some build in's (on site) tomorrow, and he is borrowing it today for the job.

Thanks again to those lucky dude!

Timmy
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« Reply #2 on: March 6, 2010, 01:40 PM »

I just ordered one too Timmy. Thumbs Up Looking forward to this puppy.
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Timmy C
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« Reply #3 on: March 6, 2010, 02:01 PM »

I just ordered one too Timmy. Thumbs Up Looking forward to this puppy.

Brice I saw that.  Congratulations, this thing is going to be very very slick!  I am anxious to have your take on it.  Come on WaterJet.  Let's get these things rolling!!!!

Thanks Brice!

Timmy
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« Reply #4 on: March 6, 2010, 02:38 PM »

This is yet another outstanding invention from Dr.Qwas. Continuing with the
Qwas Branding, the Qwas Rail Fence will be made of  1/8 Aluminum, and will
be black anodized.  ...

I just want to clarify that it will be 3/16 inch thick aluminum plate. Our prototype was 1/8 inch and it seems pretty strong, but I like the idea of a little more strength and the extra thickness for the reference edge that the 3/16 will give.  Smile
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Steve Adams
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« Reply #5 on: March 6, 2010, 03:07 PM »

 Timmy,

Looking forward to taking delivery also.  I have a big job starting at the end of the month (about 20 site built carcases and a bunch of semi custom cabs to install.  I'd love to give this thing a workout. 

Steve, thanks for taking the ball and running with it.

Dan
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Timmy C
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« Reply #6 on: March 6, 2010, 10:11 PM »

Mr. Dan "the Ultimate Tool Man" Claremont will has ordered quite a few of these items as well along with the Qwas Dogs.  So Canadian distribution will also be an option.

Thanks Dan!

Timmy


Modified to add some attachments.


* Rail Fence & Back of Rail.jpg (5.97 KB, 201x150 - viewed 252 times.)

* Rail Fence & Qwas Dogs.jpg (20.84 KB, 455x253 - viewed 208 times.)

* Rail Fence & Qwas Dogs & Rail.jpg (8.73 KB, 304x128 - viewed 183 times.)

* Rail Fence on MDF.jpg (13.79 KB, 455x231 - viewed 155 times.)

* Rail Fence on Rail.jpg (4.43 KB, 172x150 - viewed 184 times.)

* Rail Fence Rail TS55 2.jpg (30.31 KB, 492x372 - viewed 159 times.)

* Rail Fence wWood Fence2.jpg (19.48 KB, 456x245 - viewed 126 times.)

* Rail-Dog-Close-Up.jpg (30.68 KB, 640x480 - viewed 169 times.)

* Rail-Dog-Close-Up.jpg (30.68 KB, 640x480 - viewed 121 times.)
« Last Edit: March 6, 2010, 10:26 PM by Timmy C » Logged

Jonhilgen

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« Reply #7 on: March 7, 2010, 09:48 AM »

Just ordered one.  Spent about a half hour yesterday fussing around cutting cabinet parts trying to get the cuts square (on top of all of the time I waste on other jobs doing the same thing...)  Can't wait to put this to work.

Thanks Qwas.
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« Reply #8 on: March 7, 2010, 10:09 AM »

I love the idea, but before I order I want to make sure of one thing.  With this attached, will I be able to cut a 48 inch piece of plywood using the standard 1400 mm rail safely with adequate starting and ending room?

Peter
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« Reply #9 on: March 7, 2010, 10:51 AM »

Peter, the simple answer is no. The 1400 rail is barely long enough to make cuts of that length on its own. It is only 7 inches longer than the plywood, leaving 3.5 on each end.
« Last Edit: March 7, 2010, 11:36 AM by Qwas » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: March 7, 2010, 10:58 AM »

I love the idea, but before I order I want to make sure of one thing.  With this attached, will I be able to cut a 48 inch piece of plywood using the standard 1400 mm rail safely with adequate starting and ending room?

Peter

Peter, the simple answer is no. This was discussed in the previous thread but the 1400 rail is barely long enough to make cuts of that length on its own. It is only 7 inches longer than the plywood, leaving 3.5 on each end.

This is why I prefer using the 1900 mm rail for cross cutting, so I'll be fine with full 48" width sheet materials.
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« Reply #11 on: March 7, 2010, 10:59 AM »

I love the idea, but before I order I want to make sure of one thing.  With this attached, will I be able to cut a 48 inch piece of plywood using the standard 1400 mm rail safely with adequate starting and ending room?

Peter

Good Morning Pete, my prototype is being used.  I used the rail fence on some 34 1/4 wide.  I have deferred this question to Dr. Qwas so we should have an answer for you soon.

Timmy
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« Reply #12 on: March 7, 2010, 11:13 AM »

I love the idea, but before I order I want to make sure of one thing.  With this attached, will I be able to cut a 48 inch piece of plywood using the standard 1400 mm rail safely with adequate starting and ending room?

Peter

Peter, the simple answer is no. This was discussed in the previous thread but the 1400 rail is barely long enough to make cuts of that length on its own. It is only 7 inches longer than the plywood, leaving 3.5 on each end.

This is why I prefer using the 1900 mm rail for cross cutting, so I'll be fine with full 48" width sheet materials.

This gets me thinking. What if you bought a 2400mm (92") rail and cut it to 1600mm (63") so it could be used with the Qwas rail fence to cut a full 48" sheet of ply. You'd have 800mm (31 1/2") piece left over for shorter cross cuts.

I know Timmy likes to go the extra mile for his customers so maybe he'd be able cut a 2400mm rail down to size and sell them as a package with the Qwas rail square. (Hay, Timmy, you like how I volunteered you Grin).

Well, it's just a thought.
« Last Edit: March 7, 2010, 11:14 AM by Brice Burrell » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: March 7, 2010, 11:27 AM »

I love the idea, but before I order I want to make sure of one thing.  With this attached, will I be able to cut a 48 inch piece of plywood using the standard 1400 mm rail safely with adequate starting and ending room?

Peter

Peter, the simple answer is no. This was discussed in the previous thread but the 1400 rail is barely long enough to make cuts of that length on its own. It is only 7 inches longer than the plywood, leaving 3.5 on each end.



This is why I prefer using the 1900 mm rail for cross cutting, so I'll be fine with full 48" width sheet materials.

This gets me thinking. What if you bought a 2400mm (92") rail and cut it to 1600mm (63") so it could be used with the Qwas rail fence to cut a full 48" sheet of ply. You'd have 800mm (31 1/2") piece left over for shorter cross cuts.

I know Timmy likes to go the extra mile for his customers so maybe he'd be able cut a 2400mm rail down to size and sell them as a package with the Qwas rail square. (Hay, Timmy, you like how I volunteered you Grin).

Well, it's just a thought.



Actually, that might not be a bad idea Brice.  Providing I charge the appropriate price per inch, I am in line with the Festool Licensing.  Hmmmmmm..............

Timmy  Wink
« Last Edit: March 7, 2010, 11:28 AM by Timmy C » Logged

Corwin

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« Reply #14 on: March 7, 2010, 03:26 PM »

It looks like this product will not allow the guide rail to be clamped down to the workpiece at that end.  Is this correct, or is there something here that I am not seeing?  IMO, not clamping is fine for cutting material with the saw, but I would not attempt any routing operations without the rail clamped down.
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« Reply #15 on: March 7, 2010, 03:43 PM »

Corwin, you are right, no space for a clamp. I thought about it but then it would interfere with the fence being a square triangle off of the rail. My thinking is if you are routing chances are you are on the bench where other clamping options are available. You could clamp the Rail Fence to the table, slide the Rail Fence farther on the guide rail and then clamp the rail, etc...
« Last Edit: March 7, 2010, 03:44 PM by Qwas » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: March 7, 2010, 04:01 PM »

It appears that Steve could create a small notch at the right front corner (register edge), just enough clearance for a clamp so it could be used for routing operations in addition to sawing.  Perhaps that will be version#2.
 As far as the rail length, the 1900mm allows a full 12" (the overall length of the TS55) on each side of a 48" sheet.  That is more than needed but still a quite manageable length for handling around the shop.
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« Reply #17 on: March 7, 2010, 04:05 PM »

Corwin, you are right, no space for a clamp. I thought about it but then it would interfere with the fence being a square triangle off of the rail. My thinking is if you are routing chances are you are on the bench where other clamping options are available. You could clamp the Rail Fence to the table, slide the Rail Fence farther on the guide rail and then clamp the rail, etc...

Steve, I'm not clear on that, could you snap a close-up picture of the underside with the square attached?  From the "far away" picture above it looks like there could be a "U" shape notch just wide enough for the clamp -- There also may be a bit of trimming required on the nut you attach the square with.
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« Reply #18 on: March 7, 2010, 04:41 PM »

There is room for it on the prototype and it will be a little tighter on the final product but do-able. You need at least a 1/2 inch square notch to make the clamp fit in there. I still don't like the idea of doing it. This square triangle will be almost as precise as a machinist square (waiting to see how close the production run comes to it). How would you like to have a 1/2 inch square knocked out of the corner of your square? It's the most important area for laying the square in place.

The better answer to using a clamp before the fence would be to attach an auxiliary fence sticking out from the reference edge by 1/2 inch, and have the aux fence notched, or have it come 1/2 inch short of the corner.  Smile


« Last Edit: March 7, 2010, 04:47 PM by Qwas » Logged

Steve Adams
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« Reply #19 on: March 7, 2010, 04:54 PM »

The FS-Rapid clamp would work on the far end of the rail and qwas speed square would act as the stop.  Or you could use the gecco clamps depending on the material you were using.
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« Reply #20 on: March 7, 2010, 05:12 PM »

Good idea Wayne.
 I don't intend to notch my square (from Steve) because I will just be using it for sawing (I never clamp any rails for sawing).  This is all about suggestions for Qwas providing the most versatile, high quality product as he usually always does.
Without having it in hand, right now i'm thinking that I'll add a hardwood or aluminum guide piece to the reference edge.  After I get it I may decide it isn't needed.

Again Steve, GREAT product!  Keep the ideas flowing...
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« Reply #21 on: March 7, 2010, 05:24 PM »

Corwin, you are right, no space for a clamp. I thought about it but then it would interfere with the fence being a square triangle off of the rail. My thinking is if you are routing chances are you are on the bench where other clamping options are available. You could clamp the Rail Fence to the table, slide the Rail Fence farther on the guide rail and then clamp the rail, etc...

Maybe it is just a difference of opinion, but I would think the ability to use your new guide rail accessory with both the saws and the routers would be preferable to retaining any ability for the use as a square 'off' the rail when/if that would also limit routing operations.  Heck, we all have other squares, don't we?  Sure, it would be handy, but I would think your product would be handier if it would allow the rail to be clamped in place.  

I'm not understanding your other clamping options for holding the rail to the workpiece during routing operations.  As I see it, using the Festool clamps in the rail's bottom T-track slot is the only way to clamp the rail to the workpiece in a way that also leaves the top of the rail clear for the router to travel unencumbered.  If you have a way to use your new product that works for those routing operations, please elaborate.

As is, this new Rail Fence looks fine for cutting operations.  But, I think I would be disappointed by this accessory if I could not also use it successfully for routing...

On Edit:  I see 3 new posts since I started this reply...  Wayne's suggestion of the FS-Rapid clamp or even the Gecco clamps might work in some situations, but I would certainly prefer to use the standard clamps instead -- much better grip and would work for all situations.
« Last Edit: March 7, 2010, 05:31 PM by Corwin » Logged
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« Reply #22 on: March 7, 2010, 05:57 PM »

Here is an aux Fence attached to leave space for a clamp. I would jointer the edge of the aux fence normally before use but didn't do it this time to save time.






As for how to clamp on the table... Attach a quick clamp to the bottom of the rail at the far end, and clamp to the workpiece. Slide Rail Fence forward at least another 5/16 inch. Attach a 5/16 bolt of proper height (I had to use a spacer since my bolt was not threaded the whole distance) to the top of the MFT profile and align rail to ride in the bolt as shown. Clamp the workpiece on that side to the MFT.



« Last Edit: March 7, 2010, 05:58 PM by Qwas » Logged

Steve Adams
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« Reply #23 on: March 7, 2010, 06:43 PM »

Here is another method. It requires having a scrap piece the same thickness as the workpiece. The setup is about the same as my last example but instead of a bolt in the table profile, it uses another quick clamp. The clamp at the near end is mounted upside down. Although the router will never need to be at the close end, there is room for its rail guide to fit with the clamp in place.


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« Reply #24 on: March 7, 2010, 06:56 PM »

As for how to clamp on the table... Attach a quick clamp to the bottom of the rail at the far end, and clamp to the workpiece. Slide Rail Fence forward at least another 5/16 inch. Attach a 5/16 bolt of proper height (I had to use a spacer since my bolt was not threaded the whole distance) to the top of the MFT profile and align rail to ride in the bolt as shown. Clamp the workpiece on that side to the MFT.

Thank you demonstrating your clamping solutions.  As I see it, all that effort just goes to reinforce how much easier and quicker it would be if the Rail Fence allowed for clamping.  But, to allow for clamping the design would need to be much different, and likely the resulting product would be more expensive too.  Keeping the product as you have it is probably best.

Sorry to beat this to death, but I believe your customers would prefer to know both the strengths and limitations before ordering rather than possibly being disappointed -- I think as long as people know what to expect they should be pleased with what the product does.
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« Reply #25 on: March 7, 2010, 08:45 PM »

As for how to clamp on the table... Attach a quick clamp to the bottom of the rail at the far end, and clamp to the workpiece. Slide Rail Fence forward at least another 5/16 inch. Attach a 5/16 bolt of proper height (I had to use a spacer since my bolt was not threaded the whole distance) to the top of the MFT profile and align rail to ride in the bolt as shown. Clamp the workpiece on that side to the MFT.

Thank you demonstrating your clamping solutions.  As I see it, all that effort just goes to reinforce how much easier and quicker it would be if the Rail Fence allowed for clamping.  But, to allow for clamping the design would need to be much different, and likely the resulting product would be more expensive too.  Keeping the product as you have it is probably best.

Sorry to beat this to death, but I believe your customers would prefer to know both the strengths and limitations before ordering rather than possibly being disappointed -- I think as long as people know what to expect they should be pleased with what the product does.

I have to disagree.  Two short cuts on the band saw will provide the needed clearance for the clamp when routing.  Bless Steve's heart, he's trying to provide a method which avoids any surgery on the square but it ends up defeating the speed & convenience inherent in the new product in the end.  In many (most) cases the square will be just fine out of the box for most peoples purposes.  To make a secure setup for routing, Steve turn your head & don't look...
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« Reply #26 on: March 7, 2010, 10:23 PM »

I have to disagree.  Two short cuts on the band saw will provide the needed clearance for the clamp when routing.  Bless Steve's heart, he's trying to provide a method which avoids any surgery on the square but it ends up defeating the speed & convenience inherent in the new product in the end.  In many (most) cases the square will be just fine out of the box for most peoples purposes.  To make a secure setup for routing, Steve turn your head & don't look...

Ron, I see what you mean.  And I agree completely with all of your above post.
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« Reply #27 on: March 8, 2010, 12:11 AM »

Update, as of this evening.  The initial 50 that they are rushing is now down to 26 left for delivery the 22nd.  We hope to have a conversation with our fabricators tomorrow to see if we can squeeze 25 - 50 more on that initial run. 

I just want to thank all of you for your support, and the many ideas (spit-balling) that has been going on.  It keeps Dr. Qwas on his toes.


Timmy C
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« Reply #28 on: March 8, 2010, 01:45 PM »

Probably a dumb question Huh? But why does the "square" need to be triangular and so deep, couldn't it just be a narrower rectangular bar with a notch where the rail clamp can go?
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« Reply #29 on: March 8, 2010, 03:06 PM »

It has some "depth" on the rail to get it's accuracy and strength to keep it from get bumped off afterwards. If you were going to use another square to align with, you would still want some depth for the strength reason.
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