Author Topic: TSO Launches New 20mm Workholding Accessories  (Read 2088 times)

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Offline TSO_Products

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TSO Launches New 20mm Workholding Accessories
« on: July 20, 2017, 12:27 AM »


Introducing a new line from TSO Products: quality workholding accessories designed to take your Festool® MFT/3 or similar 20mm perforated worktop to the next level! At the heart of this new offering, we've reinvented the 20mm bench dog with some TSO firsts that improve ease-of-use and comfort. Use these dogs to position your workpiece for square or angular cuts, use them to attach our PTR-18 or MTR-18 Precision Triangles to your worktop, or use them in conjunction with Dog Rail Clips to secure your guide rail to your worktop. A picture speaks a thousand words, which is why we recommend checking out the incredible video below!

See It In Action - Check Out the Video!



DoubleGroove™ Dogs
Our take on the 20mm dog addresses some common frustrations. Having dealt with our fair share of ill-fitting or "stuck" dogs, we've designed in twin grooves running along the collar to make our dogs easier to remove once installed. We're confident these will quickly become your go-to dogs.
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M8 SpeedKnobs™
These high quality, German-made knobs are surprisingly easy to thread and, once engaged, spin with minimal resistance until cinched down—hence the term speedknobs. And they're the perfect complement to our new DoubleGroove Dogs, all of which feature a matching M8 threaded hole.
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Dog Rail Clips
Ingeniously simple and effective, these Dog Rail Clips work by sliding into the top-facing extrusion in your Festool guide rail and encircling our new DoubleGroove Tall (Rail) Dogs to form a secure, square attachment to your Festool MFT/3 or similar 20mm perforated worktop.
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Dog Rail Combo Pack
Dog Rail Clips can be used with a wide variety of 20mm bench dogs, but they work best with our DoubleGroove Tall (Rail) Dogs thanks to a slight "easy-on taper" we've engineered into the top of our dogs, making the clips easier to engage. Purchase this combo pack, and you'll save some money as well.
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Visit our new Workholding Accessories section to learn more.

Special thanks the FOG community for all of your input and advice along the way!

Happy Workholding from Hans, Eric and the rest of the TSO Products Team


Offline TinyShop

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Re: TSO Launches New 20mm Workholding Accessories
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2017, 02:54 AM »
Lovely!   [smile]

Offline Svar

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Re: TSO Launches New 20mm Workholding Accessories
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2017, 01:24 PM »
Are those UJK rail clips from the UK?

Offline live4ever

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Re: TSO Launches New 20mm Workholding Accessories
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2017, 02:13 PM »
Are those UJK rail clips from the UK?

Hans had previously said they would be distributing the UJK clips in the US, so unless something changed and they procured or created a carbon copy...
"What you have to do tomorrow, do today.  What you have to do today, do now."  - a wise grandfather who was clearly talking about purchasing Festools

Offline squarecut

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Re: TSO Launches New 20mm Workholding Accessories
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2017, 02:15 PM »
They look identical, however TSO's is sans UJK logo. They may have cut a deal for a wholesale lot, but I think they may have went with a copy.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 02:28 PM by squarecut »
Largest private sawdust producer in Huntington NY

Offline TSO Products

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Re: TSO Launches New 20mm Workholding Accessories
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2017, 04:06 PM »

Are those UJK rail clips from the UK?

Yes, they are. [wink]

They look identical, however TSO's is sans UJK logo. They may have cut a deal for a wholesale lot, but I think they may have went with a copy.

The rendering image on our site does not have the UJK logo on them, but you'll notice that our SKU (Stock Keeping Unit) on our site is identical to what is on the UJK packaging.

I'm working with our fulfilment center in Minnesota this week, and just now went back into the warehouse and grabbed a set that is ready to ship. Here's what you'll get when you receive an order from us:



I took the above image with my phone a moment ago. Apologies for any confusion! We'll work on clarifying this on our site.

We don't do copies here at TSO.  [wink]

Eric
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline TinyShop

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Re: TSO Launches New 20mm Workholding Accessories
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2017, 05:06 PM »
@TSO Products - Any concerns about durability between the interface of the steel wire loops of the Dog Rail Clips with the anodized aluminum DoubleGroove™ 20mm Bench Dogs? I note that the former was designed originally in conjunction with the stainless steel Parf Dogs (steel on steel vs. steel on aluminum). Just curious.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: TSO Launches New 20mm Workholding Accessories
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2017, 05:50 PM »
@TSO Products - Any concerns about durability between the interface of the steel wire loops of the Dog Rail Clips with the anodized aluminum DoubleGroove™ 20mm Bench Dogs? I note that the former was designed originally in conjunction with the stainless steel Parf Dogs (steel on steel vs. steel on aluminum). Just curious.
@TinyShop  - glad you raised that question. It was answered for us when we realized that the clip merely slips over the tall dog and is tensioned AFTER it is in position - not clipped the way one might think (see animation on our website). The other factor is that our TallDogs are made from 6061-T6 aluminum plus anodizing - quite tough!
We considered stainless Dogs because they're less expensive to make compared to anodized aluminum (SS saves shipping the machined dog to the anodizing vendor, paying vendor for anodizing and shipping back and going through receiving inspection.) With SS you machine it and you have a salable product. The other factor against SS: - quite a bit heavier in use - just didn't feel all that useful or "right". 

If you want to try them side by side, PM me and I'll send you my stainless pair and see which ones you prefer after a few months - honest - I mean that. (just don't let them drop on your toes).
Hans

TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline Atonwa

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Re: TSO Launches New 20mm Workholding Accessories
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2017, 08:09 PM »
Ordered when they were announced and they shipped today. I got all three sizes and the clips so I will be testing them out on some workshop cabinets I'm currently working on. Fingers crossed that they fit and are as good of quality as the QWAS dogs I purchased from Bob Marino because the PARF dogs were a huge disappointment in fit.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: TSO Launches New 20mm Workholding Accessories
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2017, 09:38 PM »
the question of "fit" in an application like the 20mm dogs and, MFT worktops and the like poses an interesting design challenge some readers here might be interested in.

The real challenge is not machining dogs to a precise dimension. Most any precision CNC machining center can hold fabulous tolerances.

What kept us up late was the unknown part of the fit. To what dimension and tolerance is the worktop hole pattern made? has th MDf expanded with moisture? Have the opening been worn oversize slightly through the insertion and removal of clamps and other workholding?

So we're trying to dial in a practical "fit" clearance with a mating part of unknown tolerance and condition. Ultimately we settled on a nominal diameter clearance of 0.005" against the nominal 20mm worktop hole hole = 0.0025" (two and a half thousandth) of an inch per side. WE are machining our Dogs to a tolerance of +- .001 and are well within those limits - as are my own  QWAS dogs (5/10,000" difference ours vs my QWAS dogs from Bob Marino)

For our metric friends: we are machining our Dogs to 19.900 mm +- 0.025mm.

So how does a fellow make this work in the shop?
we think the way to go is with a good size shoulder on a dog to ensure perpendicular seating and a knob with a large diameter hub (1" or 25mm) to ensure perpendddicularity when snugged up. If you don't use a knob, any clearance at all will allow the dog to tilt ever so very slightly knocking down accuracy of the entire assembly.

Now you know why we focused so much attention on our our knobs - SpeedKnobs. TO make them user friendly we have a larger chamfer than usual on the M8 thread. Real easy to get the threads started. Give one of the lobes on the SpeedKnob a flick and they' take several turns easily.

NOW: if you absolutely don't want to use a knob to keep the dog perpendicular, the only option is a dog with a larger diameter / less clearance and a slight interference fit with the woodfibers in your worktop.

We are anxious to get feedback about these issues and related shop habits that you all have. Should we be offering a second set of dogs with tighter fits (clearly marked to distinguish)?

tell us what you think, please
Hans
info@tsoproducts.com

TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: TSO Launches New 20mm Workholding Accessories
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2017, 10:33 AM »
FWIW I decided years ago that the only way to assure precision using a tall dog was to secure it with a knob. Even the most minimal slip fit tolerance will wobble unless secured.

[2cents]

RMW

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Offline jpmeunier

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Re: TSO Launches New 20mm Workholding Accessories
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2017, 11:26 AM »
Will you be offering the parf guide drilling system?

Offline TSO Products

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Re: TSO Launches New 20mm Workholding Accessories
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2017, 12:28 PM »
Will you be offering the parf guide drilling system?

we are looking into that and will report back after talking with Peter Parfitt  and Lee Valley. We under estimated the interest in self-made 20mm x 96mm worktops when a worktop can be had, CNC machined complete, including material, for about the same price as the ParfGuide System. But there are obvious advantageous, the flexibility and convenience of making what you want when you want it.

Thanks for the raising the question - standby for an update

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions