Author Topic: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers  (Read 2623 times)

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Offline mackenzie

  • Posts: 178
UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« on: January 06, 2018, 01:25 PM »
I'm currently thinking about buying the OF 1400.  I was curious to see what prices I would find and the disparity between the cheapest and most expensive.  I searched for part number 574345, all suppliers are UK based, prices are in GBP, assume free delivery.

Here are the numbers:

ITS   563.99
Brighton 526.79
Metal WS 522.55
D&M 509.95
Kelvin 502.2
Anglia TC 499.96
FFX 496
Axminster 495.96
N&B 494.52
Machinery 4 Wood 494.26
Isaac Lord 489.89
Healys 489.89
Sitebox 486
Screwfix 479.99
Amazon 479.99
Sort & Torque 479.53
Alan Wadkin 479
TCO 479
MAS Tool 468
MSS Tools 466.8
Toucan Tools 466.8
Powertools GB 466.8
Engineering Agencies 466.56
Toolfest 458.4
Frank Howard 454.8

Certainly reinforces the "it pays to shop around" mentality.  Disparities like this make it hard to be loyal.

I thought it was interesting.

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 810
Re: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2018, 01:31 PM »
Are prices not fixed in the UK?  You would not see that kind of disparity in the US.

Offline mackenzie

  • Posts: 178
Re: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2018, 01:45 PM »
Not anymore.  I think Festool were slapped on the wrist for price fixing years ago and since then the prices have varied a lot.  I don't remember the exact details of the case.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5729
Re: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2018, 02:09 PM »
Festool prices used to be fixed in all of Europe too. Then a bunch of UK dealers took Festool to the European court, won, and since that time pricing is free for all dealers in Europe because Festool's horizontal price fixing is against European rules.

American consumers are not protected like that.

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 382
Re: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2018, 03:45 PM »
Aye, as I remember Festool got done for price fixing over here round about the time I bought my TS55 at a slightly better than usual price.

ITS are always bloody expensive, no idea why the lads at work are always going on about them.

FFX aren't so good at sending detailed invoices out either. I prefer to deal with companies who send a proper paper detailed invoice with the order, keeps my accountant happy.

Offline Ordewin

  • Posts: 14
Re: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2018, 03:49 PM »
Have found the same when buying stuff over the past couple of years. The interesting part is that there has been a major change in who is the cheapest now. FFX And N&B were by far the cheapest a couple of years ago but it seems that greed took over FFX when they were bought out and an& B match their prices closely to them.
Warren at toolfest dropped his prices a year or so ago and has stayed true to that on the main tools and you will find it hard to beat overall. However he is pricey on the sundries and accessories compared to others and does not do package deals such as those above and D&M.
It is also worth buying direct from a number of them instead of ebay where they also sell as FFX for example seem to offer two different prices and ebay is nearly always more expensive.
Having spent well over 10k in the past 2 years I’ve learnt to do the homework first as it’s saved me a small fortune, well not really, I’ve just bought more tools.

Offline ali

  • Posts: 145
Re: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2018, 08:15 PM »
I spoke to one of the business owners in that list a few years ago about pricing disparity, and whilst I understood the multi-channel marketing (e.g. different prices on their websites and third party sites), he also made an interesting point of how they were set different sales targets by Festool within certain periods of times. This might explain the price disparity as they are not all buying at the same price/volume. They are also not as competitive as they were a few years ago so maybe Festool have different marketing sales models going on (for different dealers)??

I'm only mentioning this for anyone else interested in this kind of thing (I do have a background in economics). Whilst I hated Festool for the price fixing, I think they can be pleased with how their sales have performed over the last 5-10 years. It's really a different experience when you try to buy other brands such as Bosch, with their dealers having little knowledge, low to no stock and can only offer you the RRP for the item.

Not all dealers are equal either, I now have a new power tool dealer open up 3 miles away from me, when before my nearest Festool used to be 15miles +, but they don't really know Festool or the system, let alone the accessories and sundries and would much rather sell me a Makita. You can really tell the difference when it comes to some dealers like N&B, Toolfest and in the past Slingers, who used to really know what they were selling, knew the pitfalls and common mistakes that happen afterwards and offer much more service as a dealer.


Online Distinctive Interiors

  • Posts: 340
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    • distinterior.com
Re: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2018, 03:52 AM »
I have bought Festool's & consumables from at least 8 of the dealers listed above.

Coincidentally, when I was looking to buy my OF1400, i did what Mackenzie has done and looked at all the prices I could find at my local dealers and online. I did find one of the dealers in the list above that had the router for about £10 less than my local dealer was selling it for. I went to the local store and told them I could have purchased it £10 cheaper online, so could they offer me a better price...? They did, and I got it for the same price as the other dealers price. They also tend to have the items "In Stock" to collect there and then, as opposed to a lot of online dealers who say the delivery will be from Festool in 3 or 4 days etc.

Since then, I have always given them first option on any Festool item I required.

The point I'm making is,  don't always assume that the price advertised is the actual price you will pay. If you go in to a local shop, show them that you have done your research, you may be able to negotiate a better deal. After all, they want your business........!

I'm lucky that I have 3 or 4 bricks and mortar dealers within 10 miles of me, so I have a good selection

That's my experience  anyway.

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 382
Re: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2018, 04:20 AM »
Aye, often a local shop can compete or even if they are close I'll use them, service is better, especially on an expensive item that may require work done on it later.

Problem is that theres no local Festool dealers close to me so there isn't that option.
I've used several of the companies listed and it does pay to pricecheck every time.
Even now the one at the cheaper end of the list up there is way more expensive to buy a TS55 off than one near the expensive end.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2673
Re: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2018, 04:25 AM »
See 'One for the Aussies' for some insight in to the impact of Festool's price fixing in Australia. The only tool company operating in Australia to be granted fixed pricing, rather than Recomended Retail Price, by the Australian Consumer And Competition Commission [ACCC]. This happened around three years ago.

Sure large hardware/big box store chains play with exclusive brands/models  but tool exclusive dealers can discount Metabo, Makita, DeWalt, Bosch etc.,.  Not Festool.

The outcome - who knows! But have you noticed a decline in Aussie participation on the FOG. Just saying.
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

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Offline jasen

  • Posts: 24
Re: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2018, 07:23 AM »
@Untidy Shop .Totally Agree. I was in disbelief when starting my journey with my purchasing in early 2017. I look forward to the outcome when the arrangement is up for review.

But then again, nothing may not change - time will tell

Offline mackenzie

  • Posts: 178
Re: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2018, 07:34 AM »
Have found the same when buying stuff over the past couple of years. The interesting part is that there has been a major change in who is the cheapest now. FFX And N&B were by far the cheapest a couple of years ago but it seems that greed took over FFX when they were bought out and an& B match their prices closely to them.
Warren at toolfest dropped his prices a year or so ago and has stayed true to that on the main tools and you will find it hard to beat overall. However he is pricey on the sundries and accessories compared to others and does not do package deals such as those above and D&M.
It is also worth buying direct from a number of them instead of ebay where they also sell as FFX for example seem to offer two different prices and ebay is nearly always more expensive.
Having spent well over 10k in the past 2 years I’ve learnt to do the homework first as it’s saved me a small fortune, well not really, I’ve just bought more tools.

I agree with everything you say, FFX & N&B were the cheapest for a good few years when I bought some Festools and now they are middle of the pack.  Didn't know FFX had been bought out, thanks for that; some investment arm by the looks ago.

Offline mackenzie

  • Posts: 178
Re: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2018, 07:37 AM »
I spoke to one of the business owners in that list a few years ago about pricing disparity, and whilst I understood the multi-channel marketing (e.g. different prices on their websites and third party sites), he also made an interesting point of how they were set different sales targets by Festool within certain periods of times. This might explain the price disparity as they are not all buying at the same price/volume. They are also not as competitive as they were a few years ago so maybe Festool have different marketing sales models going on (for different dealers)??

I'm only mentioning this for anyone else interested in this kind of thing (I do have a background in economics). Whilst I hated Festool for the price fixing, I think they can be pleased with how their sales have performed over the last 5-10 years. It's really a different experience when you try to buy other brands such as Bosch, with their dealers having little knowledge, low to no stock and can only offer you the RRP for the item.

Not all dealers are equal either, I now have a new power tool dealer open up 3 miles away from me, when before my nearest Festool used to be 15miles +, but they don't really know Festool or the system, let alone the accessories and sundries and would much rather sell me a Makita. You can really tell the difference when it comes to some dealers like N&B, Toolfest and in the past Slingers, who used to really know what they were selling, knew the pitfalls and common mistakes that happen afterwards and offer much more service as a dealer.

Good post, thank you, and I agree with a lot of it.  What happened to Sligners?  Their website is just a basic holding page now with contact details saying new website coming soon.

Offline mackenzie

  • Posts: 178
Re: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2018, 07:40 AM »
See 'One for the Aussies' for some insight in to the impact of Festool's price fixing in Australia. The only tool company operating in Australia to be granted fixed pricing, rather than Recomended Retail Price, by the Australian Consumer And Competition Commission [ACCC]. This happened around three years ago.

Sure large hardware/big box store chains play with exclusive brands/models  but tool exclusive dealers can discount Metabo, Makita, DeWalt, Bosch etc.,.  Not Festool.

The outcome - who knows! But have you noticed a decline in Aussie participation on the FOG. Just saying.


Disappointing for Aus and yes I have noticed a significant decline in Aussie FOG participation over the last few years.

Offline sospan

  • Posts: 27
Re: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2018, 02:43 PM »
Where I am in South Wales, I don't have a proper Festool within a 100 miles so I am forced to purchase online.  Indeed there is a huge disparity in prices which is equalled by a huge disparity in service. 

I don't mind paying a little extra for consistently reliable service but as MacKenzie has shown between different retailers there is up to 25% difference in price which is far too much to justify.  Quite often the transaction goes smoothly and there are no issues and once you have the product you have the backing of Festool behind the scenes. However,  for me it is quite often that several of the names listed there have let me down badly when ordering items.  Items have failed to arrive and getting through to their customer support has cost me hours and hours of time on the phone more in lost revenue than the cost of the tool.

Whilst I appreciate it isn't a problem with Festool, I do wish they would monitor their dealers not just on sales targets but on customer satisfaction and retention. I am going to spending another £5k on Festool products shortly, I have no idea which dealer to go to, which isn't ideal at all
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 02:46 PM by sospan »

Offline toolfest.co.uk

  • Festool Dealer
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  • Posts: 642
    • toolfest.co.uk
Re: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2018, 03:56 AM »
@mackenzie

Very interesting to see the spread of pricing, and you are correct, it does pay to shop around.

Prices are all over the place now and taking a little time can save money. I would recommend talking to local dealers to see if you can get a deal also. Often when things go wrong, it's handy to have a dealer on your side who can help, we are often loaning our demo machines to customers when theirs go in for repair, something the nationals just cannot do, but can be a huge boon to a tradesman half way through a job.

Best regards

Warren
www.toolfest.co.uk for FESTOOL products

www.systemcontainer.co.uk for TANOS products

Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 581
Re: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2018, 04:25 AM »
One day, at an Axminster store, I mentioned that I was going to buy an item they stocked from a competitor who was less expensive, they offered to price match.  I think it's their policy, but not widely advertised.

Andrew
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Offline Ordewin

  • Posts: 14
Re: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2018, 04:58 AM »
i agree that Axminster will price match, their website says that they will not be beaten on Festool pricing which is a bit ingenuous as they are happy to charge more unless you ask. In my experience they have one of the best delivery set  ups and has never failed.
 My local store which is D&M will price match to a degree and do some decent deals at their tool fair which is one of the larger ones out there.The staff ther are great as well and are well informed on the tools that they sell
On the show front, the FFX show used to be brilliant, they would offer 10% off on the day for Festool and would look at matching other competitors as well. Last year was a huge disapointment, there were no deals whatsoever on Festool and they would not price match at all, needless to say I wont be wasting a two and a half hour round journey this year!

Robin

Offline zapdafish

  • Posts: 484
Re: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2018, 12:50 PM »
Curious, after Brexit is complete would Festool be able to specify price again?


Festool prices used to be fixed in all of Europe too. Then a bunch of UK dealers took Festool to the European court, won, and since that time pricing is free for all dealers in Europe because Festool's horizontal price fixing is against European rules.

American consumers are not protected like that.
CT22, TS55, Kapex, RO150, Domino, RS 2 E

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 570
Re: UK: Interesting OF 1400 Price Disparity with Numbers
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2018, 04:13 PM »
Curious, after Brexit is complete would Festool be able to specify price again?


Festool prices used to be fixed in all of Europe too. Then a bunch of UK dealers took Festool to the European court, won, and since that time pricing is free for all dealers in Europe because Festool's horizontal price fixing is against European rules.

American consumers are not protected like that.

I was very under the impression that this was about UK specific consumer law.   
What we call retail price management in North America is a form of illegal price fixing in the UK. 
I wasn't aware of any pricing policy change in the EU.