Author Topic: Woodpecker Quality and price???  (Read 3757 times)

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Offline onevw

  • Posts: 61
Woodpecker Quality and price???
« on: October 14, 2018, 12:01 PM »
I looks like to me Woodpecker Company has been impacted by the MBA's of the world today.
I have noticed the money grab mentality of this one time good company.
The new Woodpecker has chosen cheaper quality for more profit.


1. Lower quality materials in favor of profit

2. Now painted marks instead of ingraved

3. VeryVery low quality Anodizing

4. Marketing trickery to enhance sales with the one time tools thing

Exteam high pricing and lower quality with sales tricks


The tool design is just ok.

I do own some of their tools and they work OK but I will be buying less from them.

A few thinks I have noticed

NO Customer support

I have never had a email answered
I have never had the phone answered or a return call
Parts are not avalable Never

OK what do all of you think?



Offline PeterJJames13

  • Posts: 31
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2018, 12:17 PM »
I looks like to me Woodpecker Company has been impacted by the MBA's of the world today.
I have noticed the money grab mentality of this one time good company.
The new Woodpecker has chosen cheaper quality for more profit.


1. Lower quality materials in favor of profit

2. Now painted marks instead of ingraved

3. VeryVery low quality Anodizing

4. Marketing trickery to enhance sales with the one time tools thing

Exteam high pricing and lower quality with sales tricks


The tool design is just ok.

I do own some of their tools and they work OK but I will be buying less from them.

A few thinks I have noticed

NO Customer support

I have never had a email answered
I have never had the phone answered or a return call
Parts are not avalable Never

OK what do all of you think?

I'll have to offer my disagreement on some of these points.

First, I've never emailed them, but they've always picked up the phone when I called them and have helped me out to satisfaction.

I think many their designs are intelligent (albeit with some overlap into other tools).

I would like to see them change their "One Time Tools" name to maybe a "Limited Run" Or "Sprint Run" given they often will offer the One Time Tools again. I'm actually very excited they brought back the Odd Job which I missed years back.

I can't speak to the quality or manufacturing (I'm not in that business), but everything they make seems to be of "good enough for me" quality.

Ultimately, their products will be far more accurate than I can ever be.

None of what I say is fact - just offering up my experiences, views, and opinions (and you know what people say about opinions).....

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2352
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2018, 12:26 PM »
My experience with Woodpecker as a company and with their products and their customer support has been superior in every respect. I have a bunch of their tools and I find them to be excellent and a good value.

I’m sorry the OP has not had the same level of satisfaction.

Birdhunter

Offline Pompeio

  • Posts: 33
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2018, 12:39 PM »
I will also disagree regarding their customer service. 

I missed out on their "one time" variable router jig.  I called them and they asked that I call again after all the orders had been filled.  I called about 6 weeks later and they said they had one of the jigs left over.  They shipped it the same day that I called.  That was excellent service. 

Online RKA

  • Posts: 1255
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2018, 03:12 PM »
I have to disagree on several points.  First, I agree on the prices, but nobody is twisting your arm.  Some of the OTT tools I bought 6 years ago have increased 50%, yet other regularly stocked items have not increased nearly that much.  Would I buy them today?  No.  But clearly someone is.

The painted markers were always a bad idea, but the current generation of tools using laser engraved stainless is nice if that is an option.

The anodizing has always been second rate imho.  And don’t leave it out in the sun, it will look worse.  I wish it was better and I do grit my teeth when I get a new tool and see that it doesn’t look as nice as every other anodized tool I receive from elsewhere.  But at the end of the day, if the tool works, I can get over it.  I have bought a few tools elsewhere though, where the quality was better at the same price.

The marketing, yeah, not a fan.  But I’ve passed on many things because it’s not stocked inventory and I don’t want to buy until I need it.  Lee Valley often has some version of the same OTT in stock anyway, so that is the first place I look. 

Some of the functionality in the OTT is a little silly too, but there are 99 ways to skin a cat.  Some I find value in (others wouldn’t) and others I just don’t see a need.  I’m sure their sales numbers let them know what should come back around for another run.

As for parts, I’ve only had one occasion, the rails for their variable router jig.  I was assured when I bought this OTT that the rails would be available.  Sure enough som shortsightedness resulted in needing new rails and I had them in a week.  But this particular tool is probably the exception.  I agree that they should make parts available for these spendy tools, but I’m thankful I haven’t needed them.  Most every other option doesn’t make parts available, so ....

No issues with email or phone support here.  Always a response in one business day if not less.  Don’t know what to say, except try again?
-Raj

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 384
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2018, 03:27 PM »
I only own one Woodpecker tool.......the PRLV2 Router lift.  It has been great, well built and reliable.  I wanted to change the gearbox a few years back to use their (now discontinued) side winder style box.  I contacted customer service via phone, explained what I wanted to do,  and they sent me one free of charge a few days later.  I was blown away that Woodpeckers would do that and was totally impressed.

I will admit that I have been put off by the one time tool offerings and now typically look to Lee Valley/Veritas for high quality tools, but I have had only good experiences with Woodpecker.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5053
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2018, 04:33 PM »
Well I’d have to disagree with every point you brought up except for the One Time Tool thing...that’s pretty hokey.

I’ve had great customer service, they answer my emails and return my phone calls. They do maintain an inventory of spares. They’ve replaced a couple of items for free that were over 4 years old.

A lot of their products are machined from Mic 6, cast aluminum tooling plate that is 10x the cost of 6061.

I’m happy with their products but I certainly don’t purchase every item they offer.

Remember the old axiom, buyer beware.

Offline onevw

  • Posts: 61
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2018, 05:49 PM »

Great feedback many thanks.

I will say I came over from metal working side too wood working when retiring.

I know I have a problem dropping the high persision machining and hi quality tooling I worked in.

I guess i just expect more quaity and better support for the price they are charging

BUT made in the USA Is Very Very Nice

I went and looked and I own 8 woodpecker tools and use them every day but have moved over too Lee Valley for now.







Offline jacko9

  • Posts: 2372
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2018, 06:27 PM »
I've purchased several tools from Woodpecker over the years and haven't any complaints in quality, cost or customer service.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5053
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2018, 07:28 PM »
I also came from the metal working side, as in machining parts for motorcycles, autos and firearms. It’s a completely different world being able to hold dimensions to the nearest .001” rather than the nearest 1/32”.  It was frustrating at first but 50 years later I’m still learning how to cope.  [big grin]

Actually I’ve noticed an overall quality improvement from Woodpeckers over the last 15 years. More of their tools are now offered in stainless. Their laser marking has really improved. Just this last year they offered a new anodization that doesn’t fade as quickly as the current version. They seem to be learning as they go and then applying that knowledge to their products/processes.

Talking with a couple of their engineers, every manufacturing step is done in-house except for the anodizing. I get that...that process is nasty.  [big grin]
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 12:43 AM by Cheese »

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2352
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2018, 08:59 PM »
My Woodpecker tools always are used indoors so I’ve never seen any fading of the red coloring. Giver the choice, I’d prefer stainless steel over aluminum even with the price premium.
Birdhunter

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5053
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2018, 09:54 PM »
My Woodpecker tools always are used indoors so I’ve never seen any fading of the red coloring. Giver the choice, I’d prefer stainless steel over aluminum even with the price premium.

FWIW...the red anodizing is generally the most prone to fading.  [sad]  Even inside a building, the red adonization will fade even if it’s exposed to indirect light. I found out the hard way.

I pitched a complaint to Woodpeckers, they acknowledged the issue and they delivered a new 48” rule, 4 years after I purchased it. What’s not to like about that program?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 12:13 AM by SRSemenza »

Offline Papalima

  • Posts: 13
    • KPL Creations
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2018, 08:03 AM »
My son dropped one of my Squares and dented a corner.  I emailed them and had it fixed/replaced within a few days.  I couldn't have asked for better customer service.
Like a few of the others, I end up not getting the OTT because of the long wait times.

Offline Claimdude

  • Posts: 337
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2018, 08:15 AM »
Like Cheese and others here I have found Woodpecker to be responsive (I have had the occasion to email and phone them, most recently this past summer) and their tools to be top notch. I have not experienced any fading on any of my Woodpecker tools but they are stored in a drawer and when left out they are never near a window. I have a significant number of the OTTs.

Jack

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5053
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2018, 09:06 AM »
I have not experienced any fading on any of my Woodpecker tools but they are stored in a drawer and when left out they are never near a window.
Jack

That's a good move... [smile]

The 48" rule I referred to earlier, was actually underneath a Festool holey rail in the garage to prevent fading. Well, some sunlight got in and produced small gray dots equally spaced at 32 mm across the entire Woodpeckers rule.  [eek]

Offline PeterJJames13

  • Posts: 31
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2018, 09:43 AM »


That's a good move... [smile]

The 48" rule I referred to earlier, was actually underneath a Festool holey rail in the garage to prevent fading. Well, some sunlight got in and produced small gray dots equally spaced at 32 mm across the entire Woodpeckers rule.  [eek]
[/quote]

I don't mean to laugh because they're expensive, but that's pretty funny lol.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 616
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2018, 10:01 AM »
If you do not like their products or the way they run their business then do not buy their products. No need to slander their operation.

Offline SilviaS7

  • Posts: 25
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2018, 08:33 PM »
I just placed my first order with them, a preorder for the new edge rule.  The price seemed pretty reasonable for me to try out one of their tools to see what I think.  I want one of their squares but my god, the price on those... I'm very confused by certain woodworking tools being dirt cheap here and pricier than diamonds there.  But I'm new to woodworking so maybe as I get more experienced I will appreciate the reasons for the higher prices.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 187
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2018, 11:28 PM »
If you do not like their products or the way they run their business then do not buy their products. No need to slander their operation.

I don't think the poster was slandering them, so much as expressing disappointment. I have no basis to know if the statements are with merit or not. But for someone who might be looking at their products it might be a reason to give other companies a look.  If no one says anything, companies don't improve, or worse they live on and those who tried to be a better company go out of business because folks kept going with the previous company instead of looking at other companies offerings.  People get defensive about companies they have bought stuff from and sometimes get blind to real issues, or issues that have evolved over time.

For sure the OTT deal with them has made me not look any further at their products, they may very well be nice stuff, but I can't get past that issue.  Hearing people talk about that, but now talk about some actual product gives food for thought for me. Again, it could be without merit, but does make me scrutinize a bit more.  How companies do business is just as big of an issue to me as what they are selling.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2352
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2018, 05:34 AM »
I’m feeling a bit dense as I don’t understand what the issue is with the One Time Tool offering.

My guess is that their product guys come up with a tool idea, they estimate sales, tool up, make the tool, and go on to the next idea. If the product sells really well, they can make another production run.

The up front payment is a smart financial move for them. I have made very much larger up front payments for other products. As long as I get the product, I don’t care when I pay.
Birdhunter

Offline SRSemenza

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  • Posts: 8614
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2018, 10:09 AM »
I’m feeling a bit dense as I don’t understand what the issue is with the One Time Tool offering.

My guess is that their product guys come up with a tool idea, they estimate sales, tool up, make the tool, and go on to the next idea. If the product sells really well, they can make another production run.

The up front payment is a smart financial move for them. I have made very much larger up front payments for other products. As long as I get the product, I don’t care when I pay.


  There are many "one time"  products that people would like see available all the time so they can buy when they actually need / want it rather than have to decide now or miss out. Maybe it gets another run maybe not.

  And of course the name itself suggests that it is a one shot deal, no future runs. Which may well have been the intent originally and now Woodpecker's probably does not want to change the name. Although I see no harm in changing the name. In any case apparently it works for Woodpecker's. And I suspect that we might not see any (or not very many) of the "one time" tools at all if they were not produced as limited runs due to possible production constraints.

Seth

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5053
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2018, 11:03 AM »
The OTT thing is rather hokey but I just accept it...it is what it is. Some of the OTT offerings are definitely worth the wait. The 26" and 18" framing squares, the bevel gauge & reference plate, the corner radius jigs, the stainless Paolini pocket rule, the saddle T-squares and the stainless carpenters square to name a few.

Two interesting OTT notes:

The 26" & 18" framing squares are no longer OTT, they are now regularly available production items. They listened. [big grin]

The original Paolini rule was made from 1/8" thick aluminum which placed the scale too far above the surface of the board for accurate marking. The 2nd iteration was made with .050" thick stainless which made for much more accurate marking. They listened again. [big grin] [big grin]

There's been some discussion about how expensive the Woodpeckers tools are. One discussion that I remember was on the framing squares.
The Woodpeckers 18" x 12" square is $159. The Starrett 12" x 7" square is $703.
The Woodpeckers 26" x 16" square is $229. The Starrett 24" x 12" square is $1800.
That's some pretty solid bang for the buck.

Need a larger square than 26" x 16", Starrett offers a 36" x 20" square for only $4495.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 11:09 AM by Cheese »

Offline jacko9

  • Posts: 2372
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2018, 02:05 PM »
The OTT thing is rather hokey but I just accept it...it is what it is. Some of the OTT offerings are definitely worth the wait. The 26" and 18" framing squares, the bevel gauge & reference plate, the corner radius jigs, the stainless Paolini pocket rule, the saddle T-squares and the stainless carpenters square to name a few.

Two interesting OTT notes:

The 26" & 18" framing squares are no longer OTT, they are now regularly available production items. They listened. [big grin]

I have the Sea

The original Paolini rule was made from 1/8" thick aluminum which placed the scale too far above the surface of the board for accurate marking. The 2nd iteration was made with .050" thick stainless which made for much more accurate marking. They listened again. [big grin] [big grin]

There's been some discussion about how expensive the Woodpeckers tools are. One discussion that I remember was on the framing squares.
The Woodpeckers 18" x 12" square is $159. The Starrett 12" x 7" square is $703.
The Woodpeckers 26" x 16" square is $229. The Starrett 24" x 12" square is $1800.
That's some pretty solid bang for the buck.

Need a larger square than 26" x 16", Starrett offers a 36" x 20" square for only $4495.

I have the Starrett 12" x 7" and it is a thing of beauty.  I use it to check my other operating squares around the shop (kinda my reference along with my Starrett 1M straight edge)  I do own and yes the Woodpecker 12" x 18" and 16" x 26" framing squares - they are great!

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 141
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2018, 02:17 PM »
As a Hobbyist woodworker I understand that my needs/usage are very different from those of Tradesmen -
Who use their tools every day - In the field - Subject to much greater levels of wear and tear.
Having said that - Over two decades of woodworking - I have bought/own/use many Woodpeckers' products - And before that, many Pinnacle products (bought at Woodcraft).
Like Festool products - They are PREMIUM PRICED. Unlike my Festool products -
I have never had a Woodpeckers/Pinnacle product fail or need servicing. Ever. Every one of them is still in use.
They are extremely well made - Precise and exacting - A pleasure to work with.

To be sure, the One Time Tools sale's model is both aggravating and cumbersome.
But, I understand the reality that - These OTT’s have a limited market (demand) -
And are offered on a "we'll make the number we can sell; and no more" -
A limited supply to meet a limited demand.
Owning and storing unsold inventory is a tremendous expense for a company.
Inventory can only be dedicated to products that have a regular, ongoing demand.
That's a simple reality for any business.
In that sense - The OTT products - That wouldn't normally even be made or available - Are there to be had - Albeit for a limited time - To those that DO want them.
As for my experience with Woodpeckers' customer responsiveness -
The one time I needed to call Woodpeckers regarding a OTT (delivery was late a few days) - They answered on the first telephone ring.
Apologies were extended to me. My OTT was delivered - Overnight.
Disclaimer: I do not work for, or am compensated by, any tool company, including Woodpeckers, Festool, or Woodcraft.

Let me also say - That I highly value the multitude of divergent opinions offered on the FOG about companies, brands and products.
Experiences reviewing products - Good and bad - Or good or poor service by vendors - Is extremely helpful. It regularly helps me discern which brands/products to buy - Or not.
Unappreciated and unhelpful - Are personal attacks on tool vendors and FOG members -
That disagree with a vendor's product offering - Or a member's opinion given.
They may serve a personal need to "vent" - But they offer nothing of value to the FOG community.
Seth and Peter must "grit their teeth" as they see 'em.[unsure]

Lastly... Onevw (OP):
I have an MBA (hard earned and proudly held) -
And 28 years of management experience - At entry thru senior level positions -
At a major consumer products company.
I’ve also taught post-graduate MBA courses in Marketing Research, Consumer Product Development and Sales Managment.
During my company tenure - We were extraordinarily successful because our mantra was:
We only made and sold - The highest quality products - That our customers would buy - At premium prices. They loved our products. And bought ‘em, they did.
When I joined the company we had 352 employees - Located only in the NE U.S.
When I retired we had 183,000+ employees in multiple international markets.
Us “MBA’s” must have been doing something right.[smile]


   
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 05:32 PM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Online rvieceli

  • Posts: 842
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2018, 02:24 PM »
@Cheese those are Starrett Master Precision Squares. Add an extra zero to right of the decimal point before the one. So that’s within 0.0001”

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5053
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2018, 06:17 PM »
@Cheese those are Starrett Master Precision Squares. Add an extra zero to right of the decimal point before the one. So that’s within 0.0001”

Hey Ron, I believe the Starretts are accurate to .0001” per 6”, so that’d be .0002”/ft. The Woodpeckers are accurate to .001”/ft. That’s still pretty impressive for a mass produced item that only costs $160.

I believe a number of years ago Woodpeckers guaranteed the accuracy of their smaller framing square to be .003”/ft. So Woodpeckers has upped the ante again.

I have the 7” & the 4” Starrett squares and they really are a thing of beauty.  [big grin]

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 631
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2018, 07:37 PM »
Snip.
Us “MBA’s” must have been doing something right.[smile]

As an MBA holder myself, I know business decisions are not always understood by customers, and often not even by staff members themselves. People like to blame a company's ill-received change to the "bean-counter", or the MBA guy or gal. I wish things in the real world were that simple, and Sears probably would not have filed for bankruptcy protection. Truth is no single person (with an MBA or not) in a business can call all the shots.

I know how useful an MBA can be, and so since I took up woodworking, I have achieved a higher academic recognition without much sweat: a PhD.

As in Projects half Done!
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 07:41 PM by ChuckM »

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 187
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2018, 09:57 PM »
@Cheese those are Starrett Master Precision Squares. Add an extra zero to right of the decimal point before the one. So that’s within 0.0001”

Hey Ron, I believe the Starretts are accurate to .0001” per 6”, so that’d be .0002”/ft. The Woodpeckers are accurate to .001”/ft. That’s still pretty impressive for a mass produced item that only costs $160.

I believe a number of years ago Woodpeckers guaranteed the accuracy of their smaller framing square to be .003”/ft. So Woodpeckers has upped the ante again.

I have the 7” & the 4” Starrett squares and they really are a thing of beauty.  [big grin]

I just wouldn't go comparing the 2 brands.  One targets woodworkers, the other targets machine shops with metrology departments inspecting parts.  Starrett can charge way more, as those who need them will pay for it as part of doing business.  I don't think my company would know what to do with "woodpeckers" square and how to go about getting it calibrated yearly.

It's not a knock on woodpeckers, it's just they aren't targeting the same thing.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5053
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2018, 01:20 AM »
I just wouldn't go comparing the 2 brands.  One targets woodworkers, the other targets machine shops with metrology departments inspecting parts.  Starrett can charge way more, as those who need them will pay for it as part of doing business.  I don't think my company would know what to do with "woodpeckers" square and how to go about getting it calibrated yearly.

It's not a knock on woodpeckers, it's just they aren't targeting the same thing.

I guess my point was that until Woodpeckers made their framing square, there was only one other source for an accurate large sized Made in America square and that was Starrett, and the entry level price was high. Woodpeckers then entered the marketplace and produced a framing square that was close to the accuracy of the Starrett square yet was affordable for the average woodworker. That’s a very big deal because it brought the accuracy of the machine shop to the shop of the average woodworker. That’s not an insignificant event.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 01:33 AM by Cheese »

Offline Vondawg

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Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2018, 08:28 AM »
TOTALY agree Cheese...well put!
There are no mistakes....just new designs.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 187
Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2018, 09:35 AM »
I just wouldn't go comparing the 2 brands.  One targets woodworkers, the other targets machine shops with metrology departments inspecting parts.  Starrett can charge way more, as those who need them will pay for it as part of doing business.  I don't think my company would know what to do with "woodpeckers" square and how to go about getting it calibrated yearly.

It's not a knock on woodpeckers, it's just they aren't targeting the same thing.

I guess my point was that until Woodpeckers made their framing square, there was only one other source for an accurate large sized Made in America square and that was Starrett, and the entry level price was high. Woodpeckers then entered the marketplace and produced a framing square that was close to the accuracy of the Starrett square yet was affordable for the average woodworker. That’s a very big deal because it brought the accuracy of the machine shop to the shop of the average woodworker. That’s not an insignificant event.

Oh I understand.   From above though I got the impression people were thinking them as the same thing/Starrett was massively overpriced, or that the price differences were "in a vacuum" and thus there is nothing else driving the price difference.  In general I struggle when people get into prices on most things as they just aren't looking at all things involved or the differences.  Of course I get one off and lower part count parts I design fabricated routinely, so I have a much different understanding of the cost in making these things then a lot of people.  Folks just don't understand how much it cost to design and make something, and how hard it is to get cost out and when you do, what you loose.  I generally try to get folks to understand that most thing we buy arn't expensive, most everything is insanely cheap when you realize all that was done to get it to market and on the shelf.  A Festool saw isn't expensive, its the 7-1/4" saw at the big box store is very cheap and that comes at many costs.

I'd say the biggest thing the last 20 years is simply the cost of CNC parts has fell thru the floor.  You can get a very good CNC "cheap" now, which has made the business for small companies to crank out highly accurate, low volume, special application machined parts a reality. If it wasn't woodpeckers it would have been other businesses.  I wasn't looking at this stuff then, so I will just assume they were the first ones to move on this based on your comments.  This is where companies need to be careful, it's very easy now for someone else to come along and do the same, so if you do things to sour some customers, it can snowball badly on you fast.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2018, 11:04 AM »
I'd say the biggest thing the last 20 years is simply the cost of CNC parts has fell thru the floor.  You can get a very good CNC "cheap" now, which has made the business for small companies to crank out highly accurate, low volume, special application machined parts a reality. If it wasn't woodpeckers it would have been other businesses.  I wasn't looking at this stuff then, so I will just assume they were the first ones to move on this based on your comments.  This is where companies need to be careful, it's very easy now for someone else to come along and do the same, so if you do things to sour some customers, it can snowball badly on you fast.

Ya, I was just thinking back to when the only "good" square you could afford was that $9 Stanley that had fallen from the scaffold 6 times and had also been run over with a car or a wheelbarrow. Woodpeckers changed that situation. [smile]

Talk about CNC, don't forget 3D printing. In 1988 a bunch of us asked management to procure a 3D printer for the model shop. That printer cost $50,000 at the time. That was a lot of money in 1988. The other day I saw that Dremel now makes one for $500-$600.

Offline DeformedTree

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Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2018, 11:03 PM »

Ya, I was just thinking back to when the only "good" square you could afford was that $9 Stanley that had fallen from the scaffold 6 times and had also been run over with a car or a wheelbarrow. Woodpeckers changed that situation. [smile]


It's just been distressed to give it character and an older feel. It takes time and the attention of many 800lb gorilla's to add that craftsman ship to it, sure without that treatment they would only charge $7.95 but it just wouldn't have the charm.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2018, 11:20 PM »
It's just been distressed to give it character and an older feel. It takes time and the attention of many 800lb gorilla's to add that craftsman ship to it, sure without that treatment they would only charge $7.95 but it just wouldn't have the charm.

Well along with the charm lost... it also lost its accuracy.  [smile]

Offline Cheese

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Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2018, 09:26 AM »
Well, I noted in an earlier post that the 26" & 18" framing squares are no longer OTT, they are now regularly available production items.

I noticed this morning that the OTT DF500 Offset Base System has joined their ranks and is now, also a regular production item.  [big grin]. They've also maintained the pricing they had in 2015.

https://www.woodpeck.com/df500-offset-base-system.html?utm_source=bronto&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Woodpeckers+DF500+Offset+Base+System&utm_content=Check+Out+the+Latest+Addition+to+our+Product+Line.&utm_campaign=11.7.18+DF500+Offset+Base+System+-+INTRODUCTORY+&_bta_tid=29743622045476421803960484196187290911130802761275264813130289801452796861754280394849903832181568545051&_bta_c=49ldt13bdxr6gzu5i2gzf5543gyxy

Online RKA

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Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2018, 09:56 AM »
They have started “stocking” these items but there are some growing pains people should be aware of. I ordered the square the morning you posted that they would be regularly sold items. While the website indicated it was in stock, it appears it wasn’t. I’m still waiting. So they haven’t much much in inventory yet and if it’s not in inventory there will be a wait.
-Raj

Offline Cheese

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Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2018, 10:49 AM »
That's unfortunate Raj, as that was back on October 16th.  [sad]

You'd hope they would have suitable inventory levels before they make an announcement of something becoming a permanent addition to their product line. Hopefully, if this is just a hiccup, this hiccup will eventually go away.  [smile]


Online RKA

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Re: Woodpecker Quality and price???
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2018, 12:06 PM »
But they have a new website! 

I can't look up the order status though - more hiccups.  Not worth the call, it won't get here any faster.  I'll give them a pass on this one, setting up new websites and migrations are a royal pain in the butt.
-Raj