Author Topic: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)  (Read 5592 times)

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Offline Shane Holland

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Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« on: April 04, 2017, 08:57 AM »
Available in 6" or 12" sizes, metric and imperial. Made in the USA.

Designed To Be Everything But Ordinary. While continuing the tradition of quality and accuracy that has made Woodpeckers precision squares the standard for woodworkers, the 641SS and 1281SS push what is possible in tool design. Equipped with a sleek, adjustable stainless steel blade, these multifunctional precision squares enable faster and more accurate measuring, marking, and scribing. They are simply some of the best squares we have ever made.

Deadline to order yours is Monday April 24, 2017.

Order Woodpeckers OneTIME Stainless Squares


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Offline Gordon Bombay

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2017, 09:11 AM »
What's the advantage over the 1281?
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Offline RustE

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2017, 09:13 AM »
What's the advantage over the 1281?

Stainless blade is thinner.  Also looks like the blade has holes laser-drilled to allow you to run parallel lines along the edge of the work piece.

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2017, 09:21 AM »
Finally another OTT I will use.

@Shane Holland - even though they offer a metric version there is zero info on it either on their website or in the video. I assume the notches are @ 1mm increments, but before ordering can you confirm this?

Thanks,

RMW
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Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2017, 09:24 AM »
@Shane Holland - even though they offer a metric version there is zero info on it either on their website or in the video. I assume the notches are @ 1mm increments, but before ordering can you confirm this?

@Richard/RMW

Yes, 1mm increments for the metric. It's kind of buried in the description text.

"Perhaps the most eye-catching design feature is the laser cut notches that run along the length of the blade in 1mm increments."
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Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2017, 09:26 AM »
@Shane Holland - even though they offer a metric version there is zero info on it either on their website or in the video. I assume the notches are @ 1mm increments, but before ordering can you confirm this?

@Richard/RMW

Yes, 1mm increments for the metric. It's kind of buried in the description text.

"Perhaps the most eye-catching design feature is the laser cut notches that run along the length of the blade in 1mm increments."

Thanks Shane - should follow my advice to the boss and "read all the words"...  [embarassed]

RMW

PS - took you 3 minutes to respond, kinda off your game today huh?
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Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2017, 09:27 AM »
Thanks Shane - should follow my advice to the boss and "read all the words"...  [embarassed]

Ha, yes. I have turned into quite the "skimmer" instead of reader over the years. So, I am also guilty of missing some important details sometimes.
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Offline RobBob

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2017, 09:46 AM »
The adjustment feature to return the square to square is a slick new feature.

Offline bnaboatbuilder

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2017, 11:15 AM »
If the SS blade were cut accurately as an L shape, then there would be no need for the "adjustment feature." It's not a feature, is lazy engineering. Product looked interesting until I saw that. Their squares when cut from single pieces of metal have always been been highly accurate to the point that tool setting and such would be dead on. But a crazy high priced square that is then adjusted to be square by a pencil line is just plain stupid and insulting. You will need another highly accurate square to then make this one squared true if and when it's not.
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Offline mikeyr

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2017, 12:37 PM »
I agree with the post above, that "feature" turned me off this square instantly when I read that.  Yeah, you can send them back but who would ever do that for a square.  I will keep my 1281 thank you.
ex-cabinet maker, now I just play with wood

Offline cblanton42

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2017, 01:05 PM »
     I also think you buy a square to be square, period!! no adjustment wanted by me so I'll pass!!

Offline RobBob

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2017, 01:06 PM »
I've got news for you.  The 1281 style squares get out of square all the time.

Online Cheese

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2017, 01:46 PM »
Maybe it's just me but this adjustable square thing is kind of wonky. So the average Joe will have to purchase a $120 Starrett square to make sure their $160 Woodpeckers is within spec?

I've had 2 Starrett 12" adjustable squares for the last 40 years. If one needs to be shorter I throw in the 8" blade, need it longer...throw in the 18" or 24" blade. Both have been checked against granite cylinders. Within .0005" squareness after 40 years of use.

Woodpecker framing squares, now that I get, these things...not so much.  [sad]  [sad]

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2017, 01:58 PM »
I've got news for you.  The 1281 style squares get out of square all the time.

Woodpeckers states the following...

"Our Guarantee. We're so confident in the accuracy of the 1281 Square we offer it with a Lifetime Guarantee to stay square to within one-thousandth inch or we'll repair or replace it upon return and inspection by us."
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Offline RustE

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2017, 02:08 PM »
I missed the "adjustment feature" earlier today.  Now you guys have me reconsidering if this is the right gadget for me.

One can use a $10 drafting triangle to check these types of tools.  The drafting triangle would only be used for a check and not subjected to shop wear.

Offline clark_fork

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2017, 05:48 PM »
I don't have both toes in the metric pool and $10.00 is $10.00, the saving if you buy both models. So is there a mix and match option?  One 12 inch and one 150 mm?

The 150 mm seems just the ticket for working with Domino depths and track saw blade heights.

I recently had to mill a set of boards for a table top. The stock had very rough edges with some deep raggedy indentations over the board length.  The scribing feature on the 12 inch appeals for finding the width of boards needing extensive side trimming on my table saw which is set to inches.

Isn't the adjustment feature accomplished by drawing a line and then flipping the square? Seems simple enough without going to a second square device.

I like the larger more workable scribing holes. The Incra rule is just too hard to locate the right hole.  Plus, I am not that comfortable with a mechanical pencil these days. Of course I grew up using flat carpenter's pencils that needed a whittled point. These mechanical pencils seem so girly man.
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Offline RobBob

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2017, 06:11 PM »
I've got news for you.  The 1281 style squares get out of square all the time.

Woodpeckers states the following...

"Our Guarantee. We're so confident in the accuracy of the 1281 Square we offer it with a Lifetime Guarantee to stay square to within one-thousandth inch or we'll repair or replace it upon return and inspection by us."

Yep, same guarantee for both 1281 and 1281SS....

- Out of square 1281 => send back to Woodpeckers for re-calibration.

- Out of square 1281SS => re-calibrate it yourself in about 5 minutes or you can always send this one back to Woodpeckers for re-calibration, too.

The larger, easier to see marking holes make the 1281SS worth it to me.  I agree with Clark regarding the Incra Rule holes.  Way too difficult to find the hole that corresponds to the measurement you want and the holes are prone to breaking pencil lead.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 09:57 PM by RobBob »

Offline bnaboatbuilder

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2017, 10:12 PM »
"Isn't the adjustment feature accomplished by drawing a line and then flipping the square?"

That's what you do when you buy a $10 square. When you buy a $160 square, the mother scratcher should be square from the start without ever needing adjustment. Sure as heck don't use a pencil line to square something to the 1/1000", so why pay the price to begin with.
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Offline RobBob

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2017, 10:21 PM »
You can use any method you want to check a square.  That part is irrelevant.  Most people do not have expensive test equipment.  Even a calibrated Starrett engineers square can get out of square.  The drawing a line and flipping is a method anyone can use. 

Same guarantee for both 1281 squares, remember?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 10:56 PM by RobBob »

Online Cheese

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2017, 10:22 PM »
Ya, this is an interesting discussion...just received my metric 6SS square from Woodpeckers today and noticed that there was a different height level between the stainless blade captured in the middle and the 2 red aluminum stabilizers that are placed along each side of the blade. 
That made me grab my 12" Starrett and take a look-see, sure enough, a bunch of light shining through. I'm guessing maybe .008-.015". I'll take some pictures tomorrow along with some measurements.

If it's adjustable...it's moveable.   


Offline RobBob

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2017, 10:23 PM »
If it is made of multiple pieces, it is adjustable!  Even the standard 1281 square is movable and adjustable.  This is why I prefer the one or two piece triangles instead of the three piece "L" shaped squares.

@Cheese How do you know your 12" Starrett is square?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 10:57 PM by RobBob »

Online Cheese

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2017, 10:35 PM »
 No the Starrett is not adjustable. It's only considered adjustable because you can exchange different length rules and you can also add additional attachments. Once locked-up however, it is what it is...it's either on or off. If it's on (like they have been for the last 100 years), you're golden, if it's off, you just chuck it in the trash. Thank God they're the former rather than the later.   [big grin]

Offline RobBob

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2017, 10:36 PM »
No the Starrett is not adjustable. It's only considered adjustable because you can exchange different length rules and you can also add additional attachments. Once locked-up however, it is what it is...it's either on or off. If it's on (like they have been for the last 100 years), you're golden, if it's off, you just chuck it in the trash. Thank God they're the former rather than the later.   [big grin]

I did not say anything about the Starrett being adjustable.  How do you know your Starrett is square?

Offline Steve Rowe

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2017, 10:53 PM »
I am holding out for the production version of the @Chris Wong  

Offline Nat X

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2017, 10:55 PM »
Nowhere does it say that you are expected to calibrate it yourself. It says that if you drop it on concrete numerous times over the years and find that it slips, you have the potential to calibrate it yourself as opposed to throwing it away and buying a new one, as I've had to do with two hardened Starrets that vibrated off the table, hit the floor and were never square again.

One piece or multiple pieces, metal moves. It moves less than wood tends to, but it is very, very, very far from anything approaching absolute dimensional stability.

Some peoples' senses of entitlement obviously never change shape. It's too bad no one can make anything useful out of those.

Offline Svar

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2017, 10:56 PM »
The more movable parts square has the easier it is knocked out of alignment. Also, there are more robust adjustable square designs then current Woodpeckers.

Online Cheese

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2017, 11:15 PM »
In every ISO certified manufacturing facility, as part of the yearly ISO engineering validation process, all measurement tools are pulled from ALL engineers and are verified according to the company's ISO specifications.

In my particular case, I used my own personal measuring instruments (scales, squares, calipers, micrometers) to verify the measurements that were collected by the QA group. Thus, if I was to approve and release product, I needed to insure that all QA checks were conducted with ISO certified equipment. Bottom line is that my personal measuring instruments also needed to be ISO certified and that was on a recurring 1 year basis.

Hey @RobBob, forgot to add, both of the Starrett squares were acclimated to the test lab temp overnight and then compared to a granite cylinder. Pretty typical...
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 09:44 AM by Cheese »

Offline live4ever

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2017, 11:18 PM »
Hahaha that video from Chris is a classic one - had forgotten about it but it's one of my favorites. 
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Online Cheese

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2017, 11:42 PM »
...as I've had to do with two hardened Starrets that vibrated off the table, hit the floor and were never square again.

You're exactly correct, these are cast/forged pieces of metal that when they hit the floor they're usually toast.

Like everything else in life there are pluses and minuses. My personal preference is to pick up a tool and knowing that I've not dropped it on the floor or jammed it against another item or damaged it...well then it's square...simple. My least favorite option is to second guess myself and to remember accidentally slapping the square into another solid object and wondering if the squareness has been compromised. Then it's into the test mode which just takes time and slows the process.

 There have been innumerable stories told about measuring twice while cutting once yet the dimensions were still off for some reason.  [eek] [eek]

Offline Paul G

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2017, 12:04 AM »
I am holding out for the production version of the @Chris Wong

 [big grin] that vid was the first thing that came to mind when I saw the details on this square.
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Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2017, 10:25 AM »
The adjustability of this square should be seen as a positive. As others have said, if you have a square that's not adjustable and it gets dropped or damaged, it's junk. With this one, you can re-calibrate the square, if needed.

Woodpeckers says this square is accurate within .008 degrees.

Shane
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 10:29 AM by Shane Holland »
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Offline Lettusbee

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2017, 10:49 AM »
On the bright side,this major controversy is keeping the promotion at the top of the page.  I probably would have forgotten I wanted one by now if not for that. [wink]

Offline Paul G

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2017, 11:04 AM »
The adjustability of this square should be seen as a positive. As others have said, if you have a square that's not adjustable and it gets dropped or damaged, it's junk. With this one, you can re-calibrate the square, if needed.

Woodpeckers says this square is accurate within .008 degrees.

Shane

Could you achieve .008 degree accuracy using the method prescribed in the video?
+1

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2017, 11:14 AM »
Could you achieve .008 degree accuracy using the method prescribed in the video?

Could you? I'm sure you could.

I think the accuracy quoted is from the factory.
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Offline RustE

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2017, 11:28 AM »
Could you achieve .008 degree accuracy using the method prescribed in the video?

Nope.  A line drawn with a pencil or a marked with a knife is much larger than the tolerances in question.

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2017, 11:37 AM »
If my calculations are right, .007 degree would be 1/64" over the length of the 12" square. So, you would need to dial it into within a 1/64" to get that level of accuracy.

Again, this would be only if you've knocked the square out of alignment. We're kind of talking about a worse case scenario.

From Woodpeckers, the square is going to be dialed in to their high tolerances.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 11:56 AM by Shane Holland »
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Offline bnaboatbuilder

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2017, 11:47 AM »
If my calculations are right, .007 degree would be 1/64" over the length of the 12" square. So, you would need to dial it into within a 1/64" to get that level of accuracy.

Again, this would be only if you've knocked the square out of alignment. We're kind of talking about a worse case scenario.

From Woodpeckers, the square is going to be dialed in to their high tolerances.

I get 0.075 degrees for a 1/64" off over 12". That would be a factor of 10 over their factory settings.

inverse tangent of (1/64)/12 = 0.075 degrees

Anyone else want to check this?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 11:49 AM by bnaboatbuilder »
- John

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2017, 11:56 AM »
Apologies. You're correct, I was wrong about the decimal places on my calc.
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Offline RustE

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2017, 12:01 PM »
Here's what I came up with:

TAN(0.008°) = X / (12 in.)

Solving for X yields 0.00167 in. or approximately 0.002 in. at the far end of a 12 in. span.  Keep in mind that this number is only for the stated angle accuracy, and does not account for the surface profile tolerance of the blade.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 12:05 PM by RustE »

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2017, 12:09 PM »
Here's what I came up with:

TAN(0.008°) = X / (12 in.)

Solving for X yields 0.00167 in. or approximately 0.002 in. at the far end of a 12 in. span.  Keep in mind that this number is only for the stated angle accuracy, and does not account for the surface profile tolerance of the blade.

Just laying it out in my CAD program I get .0059" deviation at 48". About a tenth of a sixteenth.

Offline Svar

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2017, 12:14 PM »
Here's what I came up with:
TAN(0.008°) = X / (12 in.)
Solving for X yields 0.00167 in. or approximately 0.002 in. at the far end of a 12 in. span. 

That is correct. Keep in mind that you double the deviation when you use the flip method shown. 0.002x2=0.004"=0.1mm. I can easily spot 0.1mm if marking knife or something similar is used.
@Shane Holland should send us all coupons for popularizing this thread.  [poke]
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 12:29 PM by Svar »

Online Cheese

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2017, 12:16 PM »
I just did a quick crude calculation using the commonly accepted number of approximately .018" of draft (DME mold design) per degree. So at .008º, the offset at the 1 inch level will be .000144" and at the 12" level the offset will be .001728".

That's pretty impressive if it can maintain that level of accuracy. [cool]  My only concern is the 12" lever arm that can be banged about accidentally.

Offline RustE

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2017, 12:17 PM »
Just laying it out in my CAD program I get .0059" deviation at 48". About a tenth of a sixteenth.

The calculator returns 0.0067 in. at the end of a 48 in. span.  Close enough.

Made me think though:  The OneTime Stainless Square is is not the ideal tool for someone looking to setup a track saw or other equipment.  It is better suited for layout work, because less pressure will be applied to the blade.

Offline RustE

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2017, 12:20 PM »
@Shane Holland should send us all coupons for popularizing this thread.  [poke]

How about some of those cool Festool stickers?  I'm guessing these are in his desk drawer.

Offline Paul G

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2017, 12:20 PM »
Could you achieve .008 degree accuracy using the method prescribed in the video?

Could you? I'm sure you could.

I think the accuracy quoted is from the factory.

Using the prescribed method, I could not reliably achieve that accuracy.
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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2017, 02:37 PM »
this thread has us thinking
a.) TSO will stay with non-adjustable tools
b.) TSO needs to think of another creative way to stir controversy to raise the visibility of our products on forums  [big grin]
c.) Shane does a very good job

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Offline c_dwyer

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2017, 03:01 PM »
You guys definitely missed factoring in the 10 gigawatt flux capacitor offset paradigms in your standard error calculations.

Offline McNally Family

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2017, 06:05 AM »
When I joined this forum, I was told there would be no math......
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Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2017, 07:47 PM »
Friendly reminder that the deadline to order is tomorrow, Monday April 24, 2017.

Order Woodpeckers OneTIME Stainless Squares


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Offline kdzito

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Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #49 on: April 24, 2017, 11:22 AM »
I'm still trying to decide. What advantage(s) besides being a squaring tool will this have over the Woodpeckers T Square?  They both have holes for marking exact dimensions.  I'm trying to justify taking this plunge. 
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 02:38 PM by kdzito »
Building one day at a time.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 821
Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #50 on: April 24, 2017, 12:52 PM »
I think the utility is as an all-in-one tool.  Checking square on inside and outside corners, marking and layout (which the T square would do), blade height or fence offsets on table saws and routers.  It has some appeal in that sense, however, you have to wrestle with that price. 
-Raj

Offline jdw101

  • Posts: 67
Re: Woodpeckers New OneTIME Stainless Square (US)
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2017, 01:10 PM »
I've got news for you.  The 1281 style squares get out of square all the time.

Woodpeckers states the following...

"Our Guarantee. We're so confident in the accuracy of the 1281 Square we offer it with a Lifetime Guarantee to stay square to within one-thousandth inch or we'll repair or replace it upon return and inspection by us."

Yep, same guarantee for both 1281 and 1281SS....

- Out of square 1281 => send back to Woodpeckers for re-calibration.

- Out of square 1281SS => re-calibrate it yourself in about 5 minutes or you can always send this one back to Woodpeckers for re-calibration, too.

The larger, easier to see marking holes make the 1281SS worth it to me.  I agree with Clark regarding the Incra Rule holes.  Way too difficult to find the hole that corresponds to the measurement you want and the holes are prone to breaking pencil lead.

I am with you too, that is the feature I like about these. I am so disappointed with the Incra rules, they are so tender, I take such good care of them and still they kink and are bent.   This thing to me seems like a better version of that at least in another form.  I've never really been unhappy with Woodpecker.