Author Topic: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)  (Read 15451 times)

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Offline Shane Holland

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Order the Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool MFT Square

$69.99

Woodpeckers newest OneTime Tool, the MFT Layout & Assembly Square enables quick and accurate setup of your Festool MFT table and enhances layout and assembly tasks. Specifically designed for setting perpendicularity between the Festool MFT fence and guide, the added MFT Positioning Dogs ensure alignment of your MFT rail or fence with the dog holes; inline at 90° or at 45°.

Act Now, Order Deadline Is Monday, January 29, 2018!

In addition to taming your MFT table the versatility of the Woodpeckers MFT Layout and Assembly Squares’ makes it a valuable addition throughout your shop. It is keenly adept at keeping large panels held firmly in place; ensuring perpendicular during dry fits and glue ups on cabinetry and other large projects.

It excels at setting 45°and 90°angles on your table or miter saw. If you have an 18” bandsaw, you can square the table to the blade with the square standing upright on its 3/4" wide leg, leaving your hands free to adjust and set stops. And wood glue is a breeze to clean off the phenolic surface, wet or dry. When not in use, the large clamping slots keep it hanging conveniently nearby on your shop wall.

And being machined from a single slab of American made phenolic, this tool is virtually indestructible. Drop it, hit it or soak it in water and it’ll still be rock solid and perfectly accurate.

Order the Woodpeckers OneTIME Tool MFT Square

« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 12:10 AM by Shane Holland »
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Offline ishmerc

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2018, 12:34 AM »
That's not a bad price compare to other ones time tool .

Offline TinyShop

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2018, 01:14 AM »
Hmmm, why the relieved corners? Kind of tough to gauge the accuracy of something short (like a 210mm saw blade sticking up through a table) when a chunk of the face of the thing you're registering off of is missing.

And no mention of its accuracy or whether it features a lifetime guarantee (like other WP's gear).

Is more info forthcoming?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 01:47 AM by TinyShop »

Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2018, 05:29 AM »
I guess this one time tool is a cheaper alternative to the aluminum MFT square hanging off the side of my MFT.

Perhaps, sharp thin corners of a phenolic item would be more likely to mush if dropped or banged into something. The blunt corners would seem to be more durable.

In looking at this new square, I’m even happier with my old WP MFT square and my WP framing square. They both work well in my shop.
Birdhunter

Offline RustE

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2018, 08:32 AM »
The 5 months is probably lead-time for sheet stock.  Then they probably won’t start running these until all can be done in one setup.  Don’t forget about inspection time.

One place I worked had a dedicated model shop that could turn out one-off and prototype products very in a matter of weeks.  Other places I’ve worked need several months just to schedule a machine to run one prototype.

Offline DynaGlide

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2018, 08:44 AM »
Is this item more for the convenience crowd? Currently using @Peter Halle video using dogs. I take the fence off and use it as a spacer and align the rail to a set of dogs so as to not cut into the dog holes. Then once that's locked in I do the fence to another set of dogs. It isn't the most convenient but it works. The price isn't terrible when you factor in shipping costs of the Anderson Plywood unit. Although once you've setup a perfectly square MFT you could just cut your own 'square' out of thick plywood/MDF.

Offline buckeyeguy

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2018, 09:33 AM »
And no mention of its accuracy or whether it features a lifetime guarantee (like other WP's gear).

I called Woodpeckers directly this morning with the same questions. As of right now, they are guaranteeing .0085" per foot accuracy. The person I spoke with actually went out and talked with someone else to get the answer. She did say that they are still deciding on what machine they will be using to cut the square, so by actual production day, accuracy could be increased, but it is going to be at least .0085"/ft.

I also inquired about the lifetime warranty. This is backed by the lifetime guarantee for accuracy as long as it there doesn't appear to be user damage (i.e. running through the saw, fire). She did state all of their Woodpecker branded items are backed by the lifetime guarantee.

Lastly I asked if it was possible to purchase extra dogs in surplus to the two shown included. As of right now, there is no way to purchase extra.

As someone who does not own the larger MFT square, and factoring in the two extra dogs, this seems like a fair price for what it is.

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2018, 10:06 AM »
8.5/1000" accuracy per foot is garbage.

It looks like you're mixing units. Woodpeckers' accuracy is 0.0085" over a foot, or 0.04 degrees by my calcs.
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Offline RustE

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2018, 10:30 AM »
Something is way off if 8.5/1000" per ft is the Woodpeckers' rating. If they can cut their aluminum squares to 1/1000" per ft then phenolic should be not different. Maybe they plan on using the red-headed step child CNC for this OTT.

Maybe they don’t want to grind it?

I have no idea how phenolic behaves when machining.  I’m going to take a guess that it’s close to machining aluminum, easy to cut and a bit ‘gummy’.

I got the same answer as Shane:  0.0085” (aka 8.5 thousandths) deviation across 12” is 0.04 degrees.  If my math is correct, that could translate to 0.030” deviation across a 42.5” span [1080 guide rail].

Offline mike_aa

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2018, 10:39 AM »
And no mention of its accuracy or whether it features a lifetime guarantee (like other WP's gear).

I called Woodpeckers directly this morning with the same questions. As of right now, they are guaranteeing .0085" per foot accuracy. The person I spoke with actually went out and talked with someone else to get the answer. She did say that they are still deciding on what machine they will be using to cut the square, so by actual production day, accuracy could be increased, but it is going to be at least .0085"/ft.

I also inquired about the lifetime warranty. This is backed by the lifetime guarantee for accuracy as long as it there doesn't appear to be user damage (i.e. running through the saw, fire). She did state all of their Woodpecker branded items are backed by the lifetime guarantee.

Lastly I asked if it was possible to purchase extra dogs in surplus to the two shown included. As of right now, there is no way to purchase extra.

As someone who does not own the larger MFT square, and factoring in the two extra dogs, this seems like a fair price for what it is.

@rmh  and  @Zeusman

What will the accuracy be for the new square?

Offline Cheese

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2018, 10:51 AM »
I think while they said .0085" per foot, I think they actually meant to say .0085º instead.

All of the rest of their machined items have been advertised to be within .0010" to .0015" or LESS per foot.

Using .0085" means this is 8.5 times less accurate than their previous offerings.

EDIT: I just checked the paperwork I received with my Woodpecker Model 6S Carpenters square and it reads accurate to .0085º.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 01:59 PM by Cheese »

Offline Cheese

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2018, 11:47 AM »
That's not a bad price compare to other ones time tool .

A lot of the price difference is the cost of the phenolic versus the cost of the cast aluminum tooling plate they use in their other tools.

The MIC 6 or ALCA 5 cast aluminum tooling plate is 2x-3X the cost of phenolic. 

Offline Woodtech28

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2018, 12:02 PM »
Hey Everyone, I just want to clear things up a bit...  This is Ed from Woodpeckers and this is my tool. 

First: The accuracy statement.
This is for degrees, so the ".0085" is .0085 degrees per foot.  Typically, the metal squares run much truer than that, but that is the max tolerance.

The MFT Layout & Assembly tool:
In the prototype stages, the MFT Layout & Assembly Square is right there, running about .008 to .009 “Degrees” over the 15” length. 

Offline Cheese

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2018, 12:14 PM »
In the prototype stages, the MFT Layout & Assembly Square is right there, running about .008 to .009 “Degrees” over the 15” length.

Good to hear...thanks for weighing in.  [smile]

Offline RustE

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2018, 12:34 PM »
...

First: The accuracy statement.
This is for degrees, so the ".0085" is .0085 degrees per foot.  Typically, the metal squares run much truer than that, but that is the max tolerance.

...

What about the position of the dog holes with respect to the edges?  Hopefully +\- 0.005” or better.

Offline buckeyeguy

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2018, 12:53 PM »
Hey Everyone, I just want to clear things up a bit...  This is Ed from Woodpeckers and this is my tool. 

First: The accuracy statement.
This is for degrees, so the ".0085" is .0085 degrees per foot.  Typically, the metal squares run much truer than that, but that is the max tolerance.

Well, I guess my credibility just took a hit on here [big grin]

Since it was a new tool offering the person I talked to (who was very pleasant to talk to) wasn't sure of the specifics yet and had to put me on hold to ask. I took the "8 and a half thousandths per foot" as inches and not degrees. My bad. Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks for clearing that up!

A couple of questions for anybody here.

In general, does phenolic material have any tendencies to warp due to heat in the .75" thicknesses? When I refer to heat, I am referring to an non air-conditioned garage which can get quite hot in the summer months.

Also, is phenolic material resistant to wood glue such as the Titebonds (I, II, III)?

Offline promark747

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2018, 12:56 PM »
Hey Everyone, I just want to clear things up a bit...  This is Ed from Woodpeckers and this is my tool. 

First: The accuracy statement.
This is for degrees, so the ".0085" is .0085 degrees per foot.  Typically, the metal squares run much truer than that, but that is the max tolerance.

The MFT Layout & Assembly tool:
In the prototype stages, the MFT Layout & Assembly Square is right there, running about .008 to .009 “Degrees” over the 15” length.

Thanks Ed.  Would you say the better accuracy for the metal squares is due to the material itself or additional machining (grinding, etc)?

Offline Svar

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2018, 01:47 PM »
This is for degrees, so the ".0085" is .0085 degrees per foot. 
If this is degree, than why "per foot"? It's either deviation per distance (for example, inch per foot), or simply angle (deg.)

Offline tomp

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2018, 02:08 PM »
This is for degrees, so the ".0085" is .0085 degrees per foot. 
If this is degree, than why "per foot"? It's either deviation per distance (for example, inch per foot), or simply angle (deg.)

Agreed. It's either made within an accuracy of .0085° or with a deviation of .0085" per foot. The total error would be based on the length of the part - at .0085"/per foot, the error would be .017" for a 2' part, .0255" for a 3' part and so on. Degrees per foot is meaningless. BTW, an accuracy of .0085° would give an error of .0036" at a length of 24" - pretty accurate I would say.

Offline Sparktrician

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2018, 02:18 PM »
My concern is that it's only 3/4" thick.  If you're working with 3/4" material, you have to lower the rail to calibrate it, but in raising the rail to accommodate the 3/4" (or 18mm, or 19mm, or whatever) material, the act of releasing the rail clamp and resetting it to a different height is likely to induce an error, however minor.  If Woodpeckers had chosen to make it thicker, say 1-1/8" (like the original MFT square), one could zero the rail and not be concerned about errors induced by raising and/or lowering the rail once it's been zeroed.  This rather makes the argument about "the '.0085" is .0085 degrees per foot'" insignificant.
- Willy -

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Offline Woodtech28

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2018, 03:02 PM »
A couple of questions for anybody here.

In general, does phenolic material have any tendencies to warp due to heat in the .75" thicknesses? When I refer to heat, I am referring to an non air-conditioned garage which can get quite hot in the summer months.
 

Also, is phenolic material resistant to wood glue such as the Titebonds (I, II, III)?
[/quote]

I have had my Woodpeckers router table for years in my unconditioned shop here in NE Ohio, as well as my coping sleds, and have not had an issue in either the summer heat or winter cold, and unfortunately have used them in both extremes.

I put woodglue (I & II, didn't have any III around at the time) and it cleaned off very easily, both wet and dry.

Ed (Woodpeckers)


Offline Cheese

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2018, 03:21 PM »

I put woodglue (I & II, didn't have any III around at the time) and it cleaned off very easily, both wet and dry.

Ed (Woodpeckers)

That’s one of the reasons you used this material for your clamping cauls, correct?

Offline morts10n

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2018, 03:56 PM »
Seems to me that the pattern of holes, by design, give you 90/45 deg layout when using a rail with rail dogs. In that sense, a square would not be needed at all.

Offline Sparktrician

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2018, 05:22 PM »
Seems to me that the pattern of holes, by design, give you 90/45 deg layout when using a rail with rail dogs. In that sense, a square would not be needed at all.

You are correct.  It will do just that.  However, it aligns the rail such that the cut line crosses the 20mm system holes, leaving a small portion of the material being cut unsupported.  The cut line further weakens the MFT top in that area.  Ideally, the cut line crosses the MFT top between the 20mm holes.  Also, you will need to relocate the feather keys that Festool has ever so kindly placed for your benefit. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Svar

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2018, 05:53 PM »
Seems to me that the pattern of holes, by design, give you 90/45 deg layout when using a rail with rail dogs. In that sense, a square would not be needed at all.
You are correct.  It will do just that.  However, it aligns the rail such that the cut line crosses the 20mm system holes, leaving a small portion of the material being cut unsupported. 
Just use some spacers between dogs and guide rail. A peace of aluminum extrusion, for example, a couple of identical blocks, etc.

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2018, 10:28 PM »
Ed,

Thanks for taking the time to stop by the forum today to answer questions from the forum members and potential buyers of your well-designed MFT squaring solution. It's fantastic for us to have insight and information directly from the product's designer.

Shane
The Tool Nut

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Offline Stoli

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2018, 11:40 PM »
Hey Everyone, I just want to clear things up a bit...  This is Ed from Woodpeckers and this is my tool. 

First: The accuracy statement.
This is for degrees, so the ".0085" is .0085 degrees per foot. 

As others have asked, what does this really mean?  Taken literally, 0.0085deg/foot * 1.5' = 0.0128deg.  But degrees/foot is really strange, as it would imply some kind of spiral (increasing curvature with distance). 
DF500; OF1400; ETS125; CXS; installer Kit;  Kapex

Offline Cheese

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2018, 12:41 AM »
As others have asked, what does this really mean?  Taken literally, 0.0085deg/foot * 1.5' = 0.0128deg.  But degrees/foot is really strange, as it would imply some kind of spiral (increasing curvature with distance).

I think the statement .0085 degrees per foot is just a misnomer on Woodpeckers part. If you take a look at the advertised perpendicularity specifications for other Woodpeckers products, you’ll see they reference .0085 degrees without adding the “ per foot” moniker.

Offline RustE

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2018, 09:23 AM »
I think the statement .0085 degrees per foot is just a misnomer on Woodpeckers part. If you take a look at the advertised perpendicularity specifications for other Woodpeckers products, you’ll see they reference .0085 degrees without adding the “ per foot” moniker.

Perhaps.

Could be related to the inspection method:  deviation of up to 0.0085 degrees as measured at 12 inches or across 12 inches.

Offline Woodtech28

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Re: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2018, 01:17 PM »

I put woodglue (I & II, didn't have any III around at the time) and it cleaned off very easily, both wet and dry.

Ed (Woodpeckers)

That’s one of the reasons you used this material for your clamping cauls, correct?
You are correct!
Ed - Woodpeckers