Author Topic: Woodpeckers OneTime Tool - Festool MFT Layout & Assembly Square (US)  (Read 15370 times)

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Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 141
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Regards:
Woodpeckers' "ONE TIME TOOLS" versus "Whenever Tools".
It's hard to understand how a tool company making PRECISION tools -
Can't keep a FIXED production schedule on ORDERS MADE MONTHS IN ADVANCE.
Last year - When I ordered a WP's "ONE TIME TOOL" - The scheduled date of delivery passed by nearly a month.
So I called 'em - And complained - Saying: "If you can't deliver it - Cancel my $300+ order".
After listening to their excuses about suppliers not delivering materials to make the product - I repeated my "deliver or cancel my order" edict.
That was in the late afternoon (EST - Their time).
Interestingly... Somehow... My completed order arrived the next afternoon.
As my Dad used to say: "Who they tryin’ to fool?"

WP's makes excellent products. I have many of them.
And... I probably/maybe will order another ONE TIME TOOL in the future.
TRUST Woodpeckers as a company? Nada. Nope. Not any more.

At some point - Another company will begin to compete with Woodpeckers.
It almost always happens sooner or later.
Old business saying: "Ignore your customers - They'll go away."
My own addendum: Lie to ‘em - And they’ll run from your business -
“Bad mouthin’ ya” to everybody as they go.

As a caveat - This is about Woodpeckers' ongoing poor business practices.
I, nor I doubt anyone else, has anything but good to say about Shane or The Tool Nut.
My experience has always been that you:
Do what your say your going to do - Are customer oriented - And go out of your way to: "Get it right - Make it right".
You do your best to make up for the failures of your suppliers.
Kudos to you and your team.

« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 05:32 PM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline ProCarpenterRVA

  • Posts: 75
I thought I'd chime in on the One Time Tool thing. Just my thoughts and opinion based on recent experiences over the last year.

I have bought quite a few one time tools over the past year. Some come early, some come late. I don't stress over it because I know that it's going to be made and it'll be a good tool.

Woodpeckers sells a ton of the One Time tool orders. They have a niche market that delivers high quality products for discerning crafts people. These people are willing to work with their schedule because they are getting something that isn't available elsewhere.

Woodpeckers business model for this program is a good way for them to keep inventory at a minimum and offer more products than they would otherwise given their size.

My guess would be that Woodpeckers uses subcontractors for some phases, and that they do have supply chain problems just like I do in my business. Also, I would guess that the earlier you order your tool in the marketing cycle, the sooner you get it when they begin production. That has been the pattern for the delivery of my tools. I am sure that they are very helpful and willing to give some on the delivery if you call and complain,  they're just trying to keep people happy. I doubt that they are trying to mislead or lie to anyone. They're trying to make the stuff and get it out the door!

Lastly, given the current tariff issue for steel and aluminum, they may be facing pressure in the market for raw materials both in cost and availability...

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5052

1. My guess would be that Woodpeckers uses subcontractors for some phases, and that they do have supply chain problems just like I do in my business.

2. Also, I would guess that the earlier you order your tool in the marketing cycle, the sooner you get it when they begin production. That has been the pattern for the delivery of my tools. I am sure that they are very helpful and willing to give some on the delivery if you call and complain,  they're just trying to keep people happy. I doubt that they are trying to mislead or lie to anyone. They're trying to make the stuff and get it out the door!

3. Lastly, given the current tariff issue for steel and aluminum, they may be facing pressure in the market for raw materials both in cost and availability...


1. I've talked with several of the designers and also the owner of Woodpeckers. According to them, everything is done in-house except for the anodizing. They have had issues with the anodizer.

2. I also confirmed the FIFO purchase/ship issue with them.

3. This new tariff issue will be effecting us more and more. Got this note from Starrett just yesterday.


June 1, 2018

Subject: Section 232 Steel Tariffs – June 1, 2018 – Imported Steel
Re: June 8th Effective Surcharge Ground Flat Stock and Drill Rod

The U. S. Government has imposed a 25% duty on steel imported from the European Union effective June 1, 2018. This action will have a significant impact to our cost and, as a result, we will implement an immediate material(s) surcharge.

Without additional notice or exception, effective with the start of business June 8, 2018, The Company shall add a surcharge to all ground flat stock and drill rod of: 10%.

We appreciate your understanding during this unsettled period and we thank you for your continued business.

The L.S. Starrett Company
121 Crescent Street | Athol, MA 01331 - USA
Phone: (978) 249-3551 | Fax: (978) 249-8495

Offline Mike Upstate

  • Posts: 11
 Just cancelled and requesred a refund to my Paypal account.  Customer service at Tool-Nut was accomodating, though insisted that Woodpeckers has not released the tool to any purchasers.

Offline RustE

  • Posts: 342
Just cancelled and requesred a refund to my Paypal account.  Customer service at Tool-Nut was accomodating, though insisted that Woodpeckers has not released the tool to any purchasers.

I would interpret that as none of the ToolNut purchasers have received their order.  The folks at Woodpeckers are shipping orders now that their production issues are mostly resolved.  As previously mentioned they are following the first in, first out philosophy.  What I do not know is if the ToolNut purchasers are in a group near the very end of that list.

Like you, I am growing tired of my money being out on an interest-free loan.  Really tempted to grab an Anderson Plywood square from Amazon for $30/shipped.


Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 628
[

Snipe

June 1, 2018

Subject: Section 232 Steel Tariffs – June 1, 2018 – Imported Steel
Re: June 8th Effective Surcharge Ground Flat Stock and Drill Rod

The U. S. Government has imposed a 25% duty on steel imported from the European Union effective June 1, 2018. This action will have a significant impact to our cost and, as a result, we will implement an immediate material(s) surcharge.
.



We Canucks got hit by the tariffs as well, not just EU and we supply more steel and aluminum than any others. So expect the steel product prices to go all up across the board. If the proposed tariffs on autos materialize, vehicles will get more pricey, too.


Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 628

Snipe
WP's makes excellent products. I have many of them.
And... I probably/maybe will order another ONE TIME TOOL in the future.
TRUST Woodpeckers as a company? Nada. Nope. Not any more.


I have had no experience with WP and so my comment is not about that company. I will not deal with a vendor if it has proved to be distrustful regardless of the quality of the products it sells.

Offline Shane Holland

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  • Posts: 10493
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What I do not know is if the ToolNut purchasers are in a group near the very end of that list.

I think I may have mentioned this before but don't mind sharing it again.

Woodpeckers ships to their own customers first since they are the manufacturer. I have asked several times and have been consistently told that we are shipping products as soon as they finish production for their own customers and are among the first to get OneTime Tools.
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Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 145
To repeat myself.

Ordering one time tools through The Tool Nut gets me free shipping.
Ordering from woodpeckers I pay shipping, but get the tool a little earlier.

After waiting 3-6 months for a tool a few extra weeks is worth the trade-off to me. We don't order one-time tools because they are something we urgently need for a project or a job.

These are luxuries we indulge ourselves with. Why all the anxiety?
"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do almost anything, with nothing at all."

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 628


These are luxuries we indulge ourselves with. Why all the anxiety?

As I see it, the root of the "delay" problem is due to the business model in which a manufacturer sells direct to customers as well as through dealers AND then delivers the finished goods to the direct customers first. Perhaps this is why a dealer offers free shipping as a means to compensate for the "delay".

Those who can't wait have the free option to pay a higher price for an earlier delivery. That is no different from me paying a top-tier courier fee when I want something delivered the next day overseas.

Offline RustE

  • Posts: 342
@Shane Holland - Any news on the timing for this thing?

Offline Shane Holland

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@Shane Holland - Any news on the timing for this thing?

@RustE, we are shipping these today and tomorrow. We just received inventory yesterday. You will receive tracking info shortly for your order.
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Offline nostoct

  • Posts: 5
@shane holland

Does Tool Nut have any extra of these due to canceled orders or otherwise? I missed the deadline but would like to pick one up.

Offline Shane Holland

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@nostoct, I'll check and send you a PM once I know. It'll be tomorrow morning before I have an answer.

Shane
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Offline RustE

  • Posts: 342
Mine arrived today.  I have nothing good to say about the initial appearance.

281142-0  281144-1

Looks like the folks at ToolNut grabbed the Woodpeckers box, slapped a label on it, and sent it on the way.  The square somehow survived shipping as I could not find any visible impact damage.

The machining around the perimeter of the square is not very clean with both visible and tactile marks.  I can tolerate these in the relief areas but not along the primary three edges.


Offline mrgeigh

  • Posts: 8
Please don't blame the Tool Nut for the condition of your package upon delivery. Mine showed up the same way. Woodpeckers could do a better job at packaging but it's the savages at the US postal service and UPS that do the damage. Everything I order that goes through the postal service comes mangled. No wonder it's another government entity that costs us money to run.

Offline RustE

  • Posts: 342
...Woodpeckers could do a better job at packaging but it's the savages at the US postal service and UPS that do the damage....

No disagreement on the shipping savages.

However, the white box that you see is meant for retail display and not for shipping.

Offline Shane Holland

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Guys, if you're shipment is damaged, please let me know and I'll get a replacement sent out. Also, I'll be sure that evaluate to make sure that packaging is adequate to prevent damage in transit. As was mentioned, the delivery folks aren't always gentle.
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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5052
If I remember correctly, as it’s been a couple of months, I received my square from Woodpeckers in the white box which was inside of a brown box with folded paper for cushioning.

I checked the machined edges of mine and they’re all pretty smooth, probably a 63/32 finish except for a spot about 1/2” long which was about 125.

Photo 1. The one poor spot.

Photo 2. All the rest of the machined edges.

Offline RustE

  • Posts: 342
Looking down one of the legs to the relief corner.  The other leg is very clean and smooth.  I am not sure why Woodpeckers chose to have the machine change speeds at this location.

281152-0

Looking at the hypotenuse (longest edge).  The first was taken in the middle and the second was taken towards an end.

281154-1    281156-2

From a realistic perspective, only one edge of this square is a good quality reference surface.

Offline RustE

  • Posts: 342
Just a brief update:  Woodpeckers confirmed that their boxes are meant for retail and not for direct shipping.  I was also told that the MFT square I received is above average quality per the designer's standard.  Really disappointed in the outcome of this deal.



Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 644
I was also told that the MFT square I received is above average quality per the designer's standard.

They consider the one you got to be above average quality?!  That's pathetic.  The average quality must look atrocious then.  The designer really should up their standard - in actuality shouldn't they all be the same??
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Offline RustE

  • Posts: 342
... in actuality shouldn't they all be the same??

Ideally, all of these should look the same (visual standard) and have three quality reference surfaces (dimensional standard).

Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 145
Got my square last week, and there is noticeable slop between the dogs and the square. The dogs have a nice interference fit in my mft, but once there you can rock the square quite a bit in all directions due to the play between the square itself and the dogs.

Is this by design?

I don't plan on using it with the dogs, but it sure doesn't seem like you could get consistent accuracy with this setup.
"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do almost anything, with nothing at all."

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5052
Got my square last week, and there is noticeable slop between the dogs and the square. The dogs have a nice interference fit in my mft, but once there you can rock the square quite a bit in all directions due to the play between the square itself and the dogs.

Is this by design?

I don't plan on using it with the dogs, but it sure doesn't seem like you could get consistent accuracy with this setup.

How well do the Woodpeckers dogs fit in the holes of the Woodpeckers MFT square?

Have you checked the squareness of the Woodpeckers MFT square against a known standard?

Have you checked the squareness of your Festool MFT against a known standard?
 
I talked with Ed the designer of the MFT square and he told me he placed 2 old Festool MFT tops and 1 new Festool MFT top on their vision system and all 3 tops were "out quite a bit".


Offline Welshdog

  • Posts: 48
My layout square and dogs have the same issue - slop.  the square is square, but using the dogs it is loose. I even bought extra dogs and they are loose in any MFT hole I place them in. My Qwas dogs fit with almost no movement.  If I use the Qwas dogs on the square, it fits better, but is still pretty loose. Not sure yet if this really matters to me - depends on how I end up using the square for setup I guess.
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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5052
The square is square, but using the dogs it is loose. I even bought extra dogs and they are loose in any MFT hole I place them in. My Qwas dogs fit with almost no movement.  If I use the Qwas dogs on the square, it fits better, but is still pretty loose. Not sure yet if this really matters to me - depends on how I end up using the square for setup I guess.

Have you measured the squareness of your MFT hole pattern using a known standard?

Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 145
My previous post says it all. The square is square. The dogs fit the mft table appropriately. I'm not talking about how well this fits an mft.

The dogs do NOT fit the square appropriately. They are very loose (I didn't measure the slop, nor will I). If you insert the Woodpeckers dogs in the Woodpeckers square they rattle significantly, thus when you install the square to an mft the square moves on it's own dogs while the dogs are nice and snug in the mft.
"We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do almost anything, with nothing at all."

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3563
If you have a round pin (dog) you might find a round hole it fits well. You might find a bunch of round holes it fits pretty well, especially if the holes were all cut at the same time in the same way in the same material. Like an MFT.

Even on an MFT you’ll find some holes that the pin does not fit as well.

Expecting that pin to fit a hole cut at a different time with different specs with a different tool in a different material is a setup for disappointment.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5052
The dogs do NOT fit the square appropriately. They are very loose (I didn't measure the slop, nor will I). If you insert the Woodpeckers dogs in the Woodpeckers square they rattle significantly, thus when you install the square to an mft the square moves on it's own dogs while the dogs are nice and snug in the mft.

Well I measured mine for you... [smile]  I measured at all 4 hole positions on the MFT Square and with the Woodpeckers dog, all were in the .0025 - .0035" range. I've also measured all the Woodpeckers dogs (4 of them) for another previous issue and they were all within .0005" of each other.

So, if you have that much slop that the dogs actually rattle in their bores, either the dogs are undersized, the bores are oversized or both conditions exist. I'd contact Woodpeckers and chat with them.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 12:48 PM by Cheese »