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Author Topic: 110v kapex slowing to a stop  (Read 10646 times)

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Offline 1Che1

  • Posts: 7
110v kapex slowing to a stop
« on: January 06, 2015, 08:40 AM »
Hi guys, my 110v kapex slows to a stop when trying to cut mitres in hardwood. It does this both when on the extractor (ctl 26) and not. I never have it on a lead from the transformer. I know years ago this was a problem for 110v tools but did not think it would be a problem for festool. I also have the 110v Makita 1650w saw for 1st fix and it does not have this problem. Any help or thoughts?
Thanks

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Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3218
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2015, 10:15 AM »
Snap

I've found mine works ok if it's direct into my 3.3kva transformer though and not through my midi

Offline Festoolfootstool

  • Posts: 2076
  • The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2015, 10:44 AM »
Chris

I would think that a 3.3kva transformer would be to small for the saw and dust extractor have you tried a 5.5kva  trany?
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3218
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2015, 11:54 AM »
Chris

I would think that a 3.3kva transformer would be to small for the saw and dust extractor have you tried a 5.5kva  trany?
Yeah I've used it on a big 10kva one (I think it was 10 anyway) it does run ok direct off the tranny though. Just odd that the old Makita as the OP said works fine. I bet that's down to the speed control as the Makita doesn't have it

Offline ifit

  • Posts: 228
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2015, 12:27 PM »
Mine is the same, you just have to let it get up to speed before cutting and ease off to let it build back up if it starts to slow down

Offline 1Che1

  • Posts: 7
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2015, 01:15 PM »
I tried to cut a mitre on a piece of oak 45mm x 225 with the kapex plugged straight into the transformer and it would not do it in one cut. This is the same problem a lot of 110v tools had back in the early 1990's not the year 2015! Really for the price of the saw you would think it would do what it says "cut wood"
Thanks for all your comments

Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2015, 01:39 PM »
Hi
 With 110v you still need a 'clean' input to the transformer and output to the machine and as big a transformer as possible with a short run of cable that is in good condition. Enough power needs to reach the machine to run the extractor and the machine being used otherwise the power drop can effect the electronics and speed control.
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline 1Che1

  • Posts: 7
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2015, 05:31 PM »
Hi
 With 110v you still need a 'clean' input to the transformer and output to the machine and as big a transformer as possible with a short run of cable that is in good condition. Enough power needs to reach the machine to run the extractor and the machine being used otherwise the power drop can effect the electronics and speed control.
Thx Phil, the input to the transformer was clean, no cable used just the one that comes on the kapex (which is only 2months old) also I tried this with the kapex on its own with no extractor. It still would not cut the oak clean in one go when trying to bevel cut, where as my Makita and my mates dewalt manged it fine (both have other issues though). I really like the kapex but this is a bad fault that needs fixing.
I have a 3.3kva transformer but I will try the 5 to see if this helps.
Thx again for everyone's replys

Offline Handyman Mike

  • Posts: 63
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2015, 05:33 PM »
Sorry for going OT here, but could you satisfy an American's curiosity? Why would you be using 110V tools in the UK?

Offline Bohdan

  • Posts: 889
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2015, 05:46 PM »
When you overload a transformer or approach its max rating the steel becomes magnetically saturated and this causes severe distortion to the waveform. This doesn't affect motors much but it is no longer "clean" and can have random oscillations which will upset and confuse the control electronics which are fitted to most festools.

Offline 1Che1

  • Posts: 7
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2015, 05:49 PM »
Sorry for going OT here, but could you satisfy an American's curiosity? Why would you be using 110V tools in the UK?
most building sites say you have to have it for safety reasons

Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2015, 06:07 PM »
When you overload a transformer or approach its max rating the steel becomes magnetically saturated and this causes severe distortion to the waveform. This doesn't affect motors much but it is no longer "clean" and can have random oscillations which will upset and confuse the control electronics which are fitted to most festools.


Thanks for posting this a cool way to explain the effects.
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2015, 06:08 PM »
Hi
 With 110v you still need a 'clean' input to the transformer and output to the machine and as big a transformer as possible with a short run of cable that is in good condition. Enough power needs to reach the machine to run the extractor and the machine being used otherwise the power drop can effect the electronics and speed control.
Thx Phil, the input to the transformer was clean, no cable used just the one that comes on the kapex (which is only 2months old) also I tried this with the kapex on its own with no extractor. It still would not cut the oak clean in one go when trying to bevel cut, where as my Makita and my mates dewalt manged it fine (both have other issues though). I really like the kapex but this is a bad fault that needs fixing.
I have a 3.3kva transformer but I will try the 5 to see if this helps.

Going up to a 5+ should solve the issue, if not drop me a line.
rg
Phil
Thx again for everyone's replys
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2015, 06:12 PM »
Sorry for going OT here, but could you satisfy an American's curiosity? Why would you be using 110V tools in the UK?


It also explains why not all of the Festool range is available in the U.K on 110v. A 110v needs a seperate electronic from the 230v machines along with a diffrent winding on the armature.
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Ed Bray

  • Posts: 411
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2015, 05:37 AM »
When you overload a transformer or approach its max rating the steel becomes magnetically saturated and this causes severe distortion to the waveform. This doesn't affect motors much but it is no longer "clean" and can have random oscillations which will upset and confuse the control electronics which are fitted to most festools.

110v in the UK is required to be used for commercial applications as a safety feature and was brought in to reduce the number of fatalities caused by electric shock. The 110v supply is derived from two 55 volt dual phase supplies (i.e. no neutral). This is because the risk of being killed by an electric shock is very greatly reduced with AC voltages of less than 60V. Obviously there will still a slight risk but nothing like the risk of fatality if shocked using a 240v single phase supply.

This means there is often a market for cheap used 110v power tools in the UK, although people should be aware that these have usually had a hard life (or have been stolen).

On the upside though, you can purchase 110v tools from the US (I have many times as they are typically cheaper for a given item and have a greater choice available), they run happily from a 110V Site Transformer albeit with a slightly lower speed due to the difference between the US 60hz and the UK 50hz.

 

Offline Handyman Mike

  • Posts: 63
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2015, 11:24 AM »
...
On the upside though, you can purchase 110v tools from the US (I have many times as they are typically cheaper for a given item and have a greater choice available), they run happily from a 110V Site Transformer albeit with a slightly lower speed due to the difference between the US 60hz and the UK 50hz.

You've now got 100V single phase, if I understand this correctly. Does this still meets the safety requirements?

Offline Ed Bray

  • Posts: 411
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2015, 11:34 AM »
...
On the upside though, you can purchase 110v tools from the US (I have many times as they are typically cheaper for a given item and have a greater choice available), they run happily from a 110V Site Transformer albeit with a slightly lower speed due to the difference between the US 60hz and the UK 50hz.

You've now got 100V single phase, if I understand this correctly. Does this still meets the safety requirements?

Nope, but then again neither do any of my 240V tools and as I am not a commercial user or contractor, simply a hobbyist I do not have the H&S at Work Act restrictions placed upon me that they have.

Offline Handyman Mike

  • Posts: 63
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2015, 12:26 PM »
Thanks, all, for your replies on the voltage questions.

Offline ifit

  • Posts: 228
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2015, 02:54 PM »
It would be nice to have a mod that bypasses the electronics in the kapex, it would then be a decent saw

Offline Trumpet

  • Posts: 20
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2015, 03:36 PM »
...
On the upside though, you can purchase 110v tools from the US (I have many times as they are typically cheaper for a given item and have a greater choice available), they run happily from a 110V Site Transformer albeit with a slightly lower speed due to the difference between the US 60hz and the UK 50hz.

You've now got 100V single phase, if I understand this correctly. Does this still meets the safety requirements?

Nope, but then again neither do any of my 240V tools and as I am not a commercial user or contractor, simply a hobbyist I do not have the H&S at Work Act restrictions placed upon me that they have.

Low voltage  is defined as 48V or below I think and deemed safe - i.e.  won't result in a critical voltage across the heart under worst case conditions.

110V trannies are centre tapped with Earth, giving 55v-0V-55V, most likely fault condition is you are earthed and then get exposed to one of the lives resulting in 55V max, which is near enough technically intrinsically safe.

 

Offline Deansocial

  • Posts: 2114
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2015, 03:42 PM »
This is main reason i havent bought a kapex. I need a saw with the power to do the job

Offline 1Che1

  • Posts: 7
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2015, 05:27 PM »
This is main reason i havent bought a kapex. I need a saw with the power to do the job
to be honest I don't Know why it has fancy electrics, I just need the blade to spin and stop. I was more worried about its accuracy over time, which seams good so far. Does anyone use the speed control on a mitre saw?

Offline Deansocial

  • Posts: 2114
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2015, 05:33 PM »
This is main reason i havent bought a kapex. I need a saw with the power to do the job
to be honest I don't Know why it has fancy electrics, I just need the blade to spin and stop. I was more worried about its accuracy over time, which seams good so far. Does anyone use the speed control on a mitre saw?

Yeah to cut aluminium section sometimes. Or plastic

Offline SMJoinery

  • Posts: 530
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2015, 05:46 PM »
It's easier to sharpen pencils in setting 1... [jawdrop]

Haven't worked on site for a while but had some info sent by an industry body sure it gave guidance to say 240v ok with an RCD device fitted?

Offline 1Che1

  • Posts: 7
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2015, 02:59 AM »
It's easier to sharpen pencils in setting 1... [jawdrop]

Haven't worked on site for a while but had some info sent by an industry body sure it gave guidance to say 240v ok with an RCD device fitted?
its not law but most company's insurance will only let you use 110v, so it's a bit like a cscs card if you don't have it you can't work there end of.

Offline Northern Early

  • Posts: 54
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2015, 03:13 AM »
I keep reading about this 220 norm acros the pond. Forgive me if I'm off subject but are most plugs 220 in the uk? Microwaves, lamps, tv's. Are the house wired with both 110 and 220 through out? Or is it similar to US house having all grounded plugs or no grounded plugs.

I need to travel more. Who can I visit and learn about the rest of the world?

Offline Trumpet

  • Posts: 20
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2015, 04:57 AM »
UK - Everything 230/240V like rest of europe (well actually 220V there), just the specs and margins allow nearly all new euipment to work acrss the board. Everything grounded with same 3 pin plug apart from double insulated devices which use the same style plug without ground connected. Europe has a variety of different plug styles.

Offline jonny round boy

  • Posts: 3227
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2015, 12:26 PM »
Low voltage  is defined as 48V or below I think

Here in the UK, 48V would be classed as 'extra low voltage', or ELV. 'Low voltage' is defined* as anything from 50V up to either 1000V (between conductors) or 600V (from conductor to earth). Hence even 3-phase industrial installations are 'low voltage'.

*as defined by BS7671
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Offline richy3333

  • Posts: 198
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2015, 03:52 PM »
It's easier to sharpen pencils in setting 1... [jawdrop]

Haven't worked on site for a while but had some info sent by an industry body sure it gave guidance to say 240v ok with an RCD device fitted?
Agreed, it is an urban myth bolstered by uneducated site administrators that tools HAVE to be 110v and 230v isn't allowed, per section 704 of BS7671:2015.

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3218
Re: 110v kapex slowing to a stop
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2015, 04:08 PM »
Try finding a 240v supply on a proper building site ,you won't unless it's in the site office.