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Author Topic: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?  (Read 4250 times)

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Offline threesixright

  • Posts: 38
Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« on: August 20, 2018, 09:09 AM »
Hi All,

Just a quick question. Just got some of my new FT machines the other day, among it was a new OF 1400.

Opening the Systainer I see a little crack on the inlay, is this normal? Will I be a jerk, to make this a issue? Or for a EUR 700+ box is should be 'perfect'?  I'm kind of disappointing  :-\



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Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2018, 09:13 AM »
Hi,

   I am not sure exactly how the warranty works in your country but it seems like it would be easy to get a replacement insert from Festool.

   

Seth
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 10:47 AM by SRSemenza »

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2018, 09:44 AM »
Asking for a replacement insert would be what I would do in such circumstances.

Offline HarveyWildes

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Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2018, 09:50 AM »
If it's sold as new, expect it to be delivered in new condition.

Offline NL-mikkla

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Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2018, 09:55 AM »
I would start using the tool, the moment you have a few hours in the tool you will never notice the cracks anymore.
To answer your question : yes you are  [big grin]

Offline Joe Felchlin

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Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2018, 09:59 AM »
Things like that can happen - But you paid for “NEW.
I’d definitely ask for a replacement insert.
The Systainer is part of the cost of the tool you paid for -
With the reasonable expectation that the tool and all its parts come undamaged.
It’s not about what others think. It’s about your satisfaction as the CUSTOMER.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 10:01 AM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline Cochese

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Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2018, 10:01 AM »
I'd ask for a replacement insert if the mood struck me a certain way. You'll forget about it in five minutes using the tool.

Offline threesixright

  • Posts: 38
Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2018, 10:30 AM »
Thanks all for the response! (thx. mod for moving it into correct folder!)

I ordered multiple tools. Of which one I guess was a showroom model (ROTEX 125). I had some scratches and the power cable had different zip ties. Not happy with that, so I checked all the other stuff and then you notice these details I think  :-[

Now it will get scratched, thats clear. But you expect it to be new so... And, I was curious if I would be the only one that starts to nag about it :-)

Offline Alex

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Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2018, 10:34 AM »
yes you are  [big grin]

Maybe it's our Dutch mentality but I completely concur, I wouldn't give a second thought about such a crack and start using the tool, it's not a museum piece but a moneymaker, and after a few months I would have added a couple of cracks on my own.

Offline threesixright

  • Posts: 38
Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2018, 10:42 AM »
yes you are  [big grin]

Maybe it's our Dutch mentality but I completely concur, I wouldn't give a second thought about such a crack and start using the tool, it's not a museum piece but a moneymaker, and after a few months I would have added a couple of cracks on my own.

I'm Dutch  [scared]  [eek] [tongue]

I actually really agree, it not for no reason to ask here. Its just a bit of disappointment that it slipped through there Q&A. I expected better...


Offline GoingMyWay

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Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2018, 10:59 AM »
I figured the insert might have been damaged during shipment - either when it was shipped to you or when it was shipped to the dealer (in case you bought it in person).

I personally probably wouldn't make a big deal about it, but that may depend on the mood I was in when I noticed.  I am kind of fearful of damaging or scratching a new product that I've bought.  That is one of the reasons why I like buying reconditioned Festool - there are usually already some preexisting cosmetic scratches or wear marks so I don't have to feel bad about using the tool.
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

TS55, CT26, RO150, CXS, ETS 150/3, ETS EC 150/5, MFT/3, TS75, DF500, DTS400, OF1400, CT SYS

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2018, 11:24 AM »
Snipe

I'm Dutch  [scared]  [eek] [tongue]

I actually really agree, it not for no reason to ask here. Its just a bit of disappointment that it slipped through there Q&A. I expected better...

Can't speak for the Dutch as I am Canadian. But I know when I resell my tools, some of my potential Kijiji buyers could be picky about small things. I sold my TS75 not too long ago, and the buyer who paid top dollars for my saw wanted the original manual, not a printed PDF. He examined not only the saw but also the systainer, and went through all the little things such as the wrench (original?) and the plunge stop.

Each person's requirements are different and not all buyers are the same. I want to sell my tools at their highest possible resale values whether it is Festool or not. My track record speaks for itself: I usually can recover 70% to 130% (partly because the tool prices had gone up over the years) of what I pay for, by paying attention to little things like inserts without cracks (things that I can boast to the buyer(s)), original stickers, etc.)

Why do I resell my tools? I regularly buy new, better toys (the best I could afford, hence Festool, Veritas, SawStop, etc.) and I need to sell my old ones (still in pristine or excellent working conditions) to make room for my shop. I also hate to see very good and functional tools sitting idle, collecting dust.

When I buy a new car which will probably get dented on the doors in a month or two, I will expect a dent-free/scratch-free delivery.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 11:43 AM by ChuckM »

Offline Gregor

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Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2018, 03:16 PM »
To answer your question : yes you are  [big grin]
And, IMHO, rightfully so as you paid for it - it's called Service all included and covers any defects not caused by you abusing the product.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 03:18 PM by Gregor »

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 702
Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2018, 05:31 PM »
I received my TS55 via UPS and the insert arrived damaged, along with the foam block on the top ripped off, yet it was pretty well packaged. Turns out my freight was involved in a train crash, which they clearly stated for a reason it was delayed.  Figured it was a shipping issue not a Festool issue so I never pursued it. Yes I would still like a new insert, but I don't expect Festool to pay for it.






Offline jobsworth

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Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2018, 11:26 PM »
@threesixright


No youre not being nit picky.
 You pay for a new product and expect a new product right.

 Even though we know FT are not inexpensive but I would expect a new product with no damage matter what I bought even if it were $5.

The systainer and the insert are all part of the price of the product.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 11:33 PM by jobsworth »

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2018, 11:39 PM »
@Peter_C

I would call your FT dealer first even its Amazon. They should replace it. As I have already said the Systainer and Insert are all part of the price of the tool.

 If the dealer wont help you then call Festool service.

I look at it like this, from the time the package leaves the dealer until its delivered and you take possession of the tool its their responsibility.

Once you take possession and something happens then it becomes a warranty issue.

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 702
Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2018, 12:13 AM »
@Peter_C

I would call your FT dealer first even its Amazon. They should replace it. As I have already said the Systainer and Insert are all part of the price of the tool.

 If the dealer wont help you then call Festool service.

I look at it like this, from the time the package leaves the dealer until its delivered and you take possession of the tool its their responsibility.

Once you take possession and something happens then it becomes a warranty issue.
It was Hartville Hardware through Amazon, but I guarantee it was damaged in shipping. That means taking it up with UPS. My experiences with UPS have been less than stellar and jeopardizing front door deliveries for a $15 insert is not worth it. Plus it was so long ago I forgot what year I bought the saw, but it was circa 2013.

My point was more that the damage done is often in shipping and you can not blame the manufacturer, nor the seller. Of course I would still like a new insert...

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2018, 12:48 AM »
Interesting that your vendor/shipper liabilities were like that.

I have had different experiences with my online purchases (amazon.ca, ebay, Costco, bestbuy, subscriptions, local merchants, etc.). all delivery issues (damages or losses) had been handled between the vendors and the shipper (Fedex, UPS, Canada, overseas postal services, etc.) or the vendors' insurers after I reported my concerns to the vendors. I was not required to deal with any shippers directly.

Offline ElectricFeet

  • Posts: 80
Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2018, 05:33 AM »
When you buy goods, your contract is with the retailer, not the shipper. Your retailer can take it up with the shipper if they want to. But you should pursue the retailer for remedy. And any retailer that tells you to contact the shipper shouldn’t get any future orders—dealing with shipping issues and damage during shipping is part of the retailer’s cost of doing business.


Offline jobsworth

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Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2018, 10:11 AM »
So up date? Didja contact the dealer?
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 10:16 AM by jobsworth »

Offline threesixright

  • Posts: 38
Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2018, 04:05 PM »
So up date? Didja contact the dealer?
Yeah I opened a ticketed. Waiting for there response...(once I know more I updated you all).

Unfortunately there are more issues. Now I'm talking about it. Are all systainer machines supposed to come in there own carton box? There where some scratches on a brand new Rotex 125 (maybe display model...), smudged manual, missing service cards on all machines (is this something they still do?, I saw it on a youtube unboxing movie).



Offline threesixright

  • Posts: 38
Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2018, 04:11 PM »
My point was more that the damage done is often in shipping and you can not blame the manufacturer, nor the seller. Of course I would still like a new insert...

Well you hitting the nail on the hat I think. Thats also why I needed some reflection on this matter.

Your absolutely right. Often its a shipping issue. The other day I had some clamps coming in, 1 of 4 (allu frame was damaged on the back, twisted). And a new Phiher was sticking out of the box (luckily undamaged, darn there solid!  8) ). The previous one, never made it (via DHL, damaged and lost). These shipping guys don't give a crap  [eek], they keep throwing with (our) stuff (UPS in this case).

Offline mcooley

  • Posts: 215
Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2018, 04:14 PM »
Those plastic inserts are of inferior quality. But this is another reason why I like refurbished tools. They have already gone through the blemish phase and I feel less beholden to them not being perfect. Festool tools are never sealed in the store and so even if someone picked one up once it is possible for the handle or grip to have sawdust or a mark on it etc. Another reason why for me I prefer skipping this phase of buying their tools! At least the tools are still mostly reliable.

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 459
Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2018, 05:35 PM »
Yes. Your being a nit picking jerk.
The  tiny  crack has nothing to do with the tool.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 635
Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2018, 05:47 PM »
Snipe.
These shipping guys don't give a crap  [eek], they keep throwing with (our) stuff (UPS in this case).

We all know that, don't we? That makes it even more important to choose whom we buy from (I choose those who take care of me when problems (shipping or not) arise.)

« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 06:04 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Svar

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Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2018, 06:35 PM »
yes you are  [big grin]
Maybe it's our Dutch mentality but I completely concur, I wouldn't give a second thought about such a crack and start using the tool,
I'm not Dutch, but I agree.
In addition, frivolous returns like this aren't free. FT management is not paying for it from their wallets. The cost is ultimately spread to all the customers.

A good customer service will take care of such situation no questions asked. But I will be nice enough not to abuse the system. Otherwise, it will end up like L.L.Bean. They discontinued their legendary lifetime return guaranty due too many frivolous returns, i.e. customers abusing the policy.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 06:56 PM by Svar »

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2018, 08:44 PM »
@Svar

>>I'm not Dutch, but I agree.
In addition, frivolous returns like this aren't free. FT management is not paying for it from their wallets. The cost is ultimately spread to all the customers.
<<



Festool should send/ charge back the cost to which ever company manufactured the insert for them. Thats how business is done.

 Plus if the damage did happen by the shipper and not the manufacturer then the shipper will pay the replacement cost, not festool.

There should be no reason why anyone should accept damaged products.



Offline Svar

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Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2018, 08:47 PM »
Festool should send/ charge back the cost to which ever company manufactured the insert for them. Thats how business is done.
Perhaps this is how it should work, but this is not how it DOES work in real world.

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2018, 09:46 PM »
that is egggsactly how it does work in the real world. With that being said, its up to the prime (FT) to decide to make a claim to its sub-supplier or shipper. The shipper prolly has some insurance or built in cost to cover such damage.

 Either way the OP doesnt have to accept damaged product.

There are some suppliers who would knock off a few bucks to compensate the customer.

 I dont think that is FT way of doing business though. But FT should make the customer happy ad give him what he paid for .

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Am I being a nitpicking jerk?
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2018, 11:33 PM »
I agree abusing a vendor's return policy is a no-no, and the abused costs eventually are passed to every customer. However, the OP's issue clearly has nothing to do with abuse of any kind, unlike the situation found at L.L. Bean where some customers enjoyed the use of the products and then returned them. The OP is not returning a used product, but asking for a replacement insert which is a legitimate and justified request. He is not returning the whole purchase for a refund.

Of course, anyone in the OP's situation can choose not to file a claim for a replacement and that is totally fine too as long as they pay for their purchases. Here, OP is the payor for the damaged goods, not any one of us.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 11:37 PM by ChuckM »