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Author Topic: Another dead Kapex.  (Read 12117 times)

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Offline NL-mikkla

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #60 on: April 11, 2018, 10:17 AM »
Thanks Ali for the PDF

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Online Festool USA

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #61 on: April 11, 2018, 11:00 AM »
Readers should note that the instructions shown in this thread were developed solely by the writer, and without any input or approval from Festool. Anyone choosing to attempt the aforementioned repairs on their own should be aware that such an attempt will, in all likelihood, void any remaining warranty on their tool and could possibly lead to safety issues, along with other performance-related problems. Festool always recommends that repairs of this type be undertaken only by qualified technicians in a certified Festool repair facility.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 617
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #62 on: April 11, 2018, 11:10 AM »
Thanks for putting out this reminder instead of removing the thread or discussion.

I totally agree that anyone doing their own repair or even modification on any Festool tools should be responsible for their own actions with regard to safety and warranty issues. Each owner must evaluate the benefits, costs and risks of doing a fix themselves.

I have done a lot of fixes on all sorts of things myself with both success and failure stories. I would not have thought of trying to fix my Kapex if one day it broke down before I read ALI's story. With the pdf he has created, I think I would give it a try, but I sincerely hope that day would never come.

Offline Joe Felchlin

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2018, 11:44 AM »
I REALLY wanted to buy the Kapex.
Your SUBJECT line says it all.
I’ll stick with my Bosch 5412L Compound Miter Saw.
Like many other “Green Kool Aid” faithful -
For many years I’ve been pretty much an “exclusive” Festool buyer/user.
I’ve spent $1000’s investing in Festool products.
Sadly - No more.
Just too many, continuing/increasing number of reports -
Of Festool tool failures, the last several years.

It appears that this once exceptional brand of tools - Sold at premium prices -
With relentless annual price increases - Even on unchanged/unimproved tools -
Is now becoming a brand of relatively competitive quality “me too” tools -
Trying to trade on “yesterday’s reputation” of excellence.

As my “out of warranty” Festool tools fail - And require “out of pocket” repairs -
I find myself reluctantly replacing them with tools of competitive brands.
Their failure rates - Are more and more - Comparable to Festool -
But cost 1/2 to 2/3 the prices of Festool products. I’m not alone.

The Wizard of Oz was able to “dazzle ‘em” with hype for a while -
But the “curtain” of reality eventually came down.
Frankly, it’s sad to watch the same thing happening with Festool.☹️
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 540
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #64 on: April 11, 2018, 01:10 PM »
I REALLY wanted to buy the Kapex.
Your SUBJECT line says it all.
I’ll stick with my Bosch 5412L Compound Miter Saw.
Like many other “Green Kool Aid” faithful -
For many years I’ve been pretty much an “exclusive” Festool buyer/user.
I’ve spent $1000’s investing in Festool products.

Copy/Paste much

Are you trying to convince people? Because you did your rent several times already.

Me, like most mature people on the FOG.. I make up my own mind about tools and brands, thank you for your concerns.

Mario
Mario

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #65 on: April 11, 2018, 01:18 PM »
Forum could definitely do with less repetitive cross topic  posting.


Seth
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 01:54 PM by SRSemenza »

Offline mikeyr

  • Posts: 59
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #66 on: April 11, 2018, 06:01 PM »
I understand the legal issues for Festool, maybe if they fixed the Kapex we would not be in this boat.  BUT I can't imagine that any of us here with the skills to work with our hands, could not figure out how to open up the Kapex and swap parts.  I pull motors and gearboxes on cars not saws all the time and its not rocket science, sure the first one is daunting and you might forget to put the reverse gear in (Ok, I didn't forget the reverse gear, I forgot the pawl that moves it into reverse so I had to carefully plan how to park for 2 weeks until I took it apart again) but worries that Festool would not allow the instructions seemed overboard (I know they did allow it, talking about the first 2 pages where people thought they might not).  I doubt there are too many people who would take their saw apart while under warranty, but after warranty is out I also can't imagine any issues for Festool.  Its only a tool.

 Any decent alternator/generator rebuild shop should be able to rewind that armature quite easily.
ex-cabinet maker, now I just play with wood

Offline ALI Construction

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #67 on: April 11, 2018, 07:55 PM »
Mikeyr

You’re right.
As far as permission though, I was specifically via a PM advised not to post anything on here, and that didn’t bother me much.
I am surprised to see this thread not deleted, so that’s a good thing.

As far as rewinding the old armature, I already asked around here Philly, PA. Few shops quoted me 500-700 to rewind and rebalance armature. It’s really small, and most shops don’t wanna touch it.
So far I haven’t tossed the old armature yet because I was thinking of trying to rewind it myself,
Just still have to figure out as far as rebalancing it.

But for $160 I doubt anyone would bother rewinding. Unless a shop that does it is crazy enough to also provide lifetime warranty on their rewind.

Still baffles me, the only thing that’s special about this $160 piece is the aluminum casting that it comes with. Shaft is pressed into it, and then the gear is also pressed onto the shaft.
I’ve replaced armatures in Lakota routers, delta chop saws, and an old bt3000 TS I have, most of those armatures cost half the price of this one, or lower.

And them cheaper (so called inferior) brands are way more reliable

EDIT:
Props to our MODS (I won’t point fingers)
But apparently they have shook a tree, and we got a permission to do stuff like this. Obviously with appropriate warnings like. You WILL void any remaining waranty by trying to fix stuff yourself, but they won’t Frobisher you from doing so I you choose to.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 08:04 PM by ALI Construction »

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 4944
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #68 on: April 11, 2018, 11:20 PM »
...maybe if they fixed the Kapex we would not be in this boat.

Amen...a very serious amen. If this was an exploding gas tank in a Pinto or a scored cylinder in a Vega, the entire world would be all over it. Unfortunately it’s only a bad armature design from a little known tool manufacturer from Germany. It’s all pretty low hanging fruit 🍌...unless of course, you’re the owner of that low hanging fruit, that you paid a high hanging fruit price for.

Come on Festool corporate, just do the right thing and solve the problem you propagated, and continue to propagate on a daily basis as you continue to market and sell the the Kapex without seemingly, any concern for the current user issues. Have you no shame?

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #69 on: April 11, 2018, 11:34 PM »
There has been a small issue with the link. It has been temporarily removed. I expect it will be back shortly. Or even better that the tutorial is just posted on FOG.

UPDATE>  issue has been resolved. There is now a pdf a couple posts down.

Seth
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 09:39 AM by SRSemenza »

Offline Ajax

  • Posts: 193
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #70 on: April 12, 2018, 01:04 AM »
A used TS 75 is my last Festool. 

The Kapex is amazing, but for the cost I shouldn't feel like it's gonna die at any moment.  I should have total confidence in the tool, but I don't.  It's really a shame.  Festool is sending their reputation down the toilet on this.

Thank goodness the user community is allowed to step up when corporate goes silent.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 01:14 AM by Ajax »
Kapex KS120, MFT/3, TS55 REQ, LS130, RTS400, RO90 DX FEQ, D90 Assortment, RO150 REQ, ETS 150/3, PRO5, D150 Assortment, DF 500, Domino 4/5/8/10 Assortment, DF700 XL, Domino 12/14 Assortment,  CT Midi, MFT/3, Kapex MFT, 2 x SysRoll

Offline Gregor

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #71 on: April 12, 2018, 03:57 AM »
There has been a small issue with the link. It has been temporarily removed. I expect it will be back shortly. Or even better that the tutorial is just posted on FOG.
Attached it is, directly, without advertisements.
* Kapex Armature.pdf (2010.94 kB - downloaded 282 times.)

Offline miclee15

  • Posts: 38
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #72 on: April 12, 2018, 07:58 AM »
Attached it is, directly, without advertisements.
(Attachment Link)

Just to clarify, and I hope this won't but probably will get deleted.   
  • I apologize, if I offended or upset anyone with the content
  • I'm glad to see the pdf posted here publicly.
  • I am not afflicated financially with what was in that folder.  I have nothing to gain other then protection of my consumer rights when something doesn't live up to the claims or to protect myself when a defect is known and nothing seems to be done.
  • It was there for my own reference and keeping in case my Kapex does have issue in the future. Mine is still functioning along with a dozen+ other Festools I own.
  • I edited the page only to let people know I asked permission to post here and it was denied so no one would post it. 
   
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 08:29 AM by miclee15 »

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #73 on: April 12, 2018, 09:37 AM »
Attached it is, directly, without advertisements.
(Attachment Link)

Just to clarify, and I hope this won't but probably will get deleted.   
  • I apologize, if I offended or upset anyone with the content
  • I'm glad to see the pdf posted here publicly.
  • I am not afflicated financially with what was in that folder.  I have nothing to gain other then protection of my consumer rights when something doesn't live up to the claims or to protect myself when a defect is known and nothing seems to be done.
  • It was there for my own reference and keeping in case my Kapex does have issue in the future. Mine is still functioning along with a dozen+ other Festools I own.
  • I edited the page only to let people know I asked permission to post here and it was denied so no one would post it. 
   

Except for possibly a bit of confusion in the topic I don't see any reason to delete.

Gregor thanks for adding the pdf directly.

Seth

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 223
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #74 on: April 12, 2018, 12:22 PM »
Readers should note that the instructions shown in this thread were developed solely by the writer, and without any input or approval from Festool. Anyone choosing to attempt the aforementioned repairs on their own should be aware that such an attempt will, in all likelihood, void any remaining warranty on their tool and could possibly lead to safety issues, along with other performance-related problems. Festool always recommends that repairs of this type be undertaken only by qualified technicians in a certified Festool repair facility.


This seems like a very odd disclaimer since any lucky Kapex owner who has warranty coverage still in effect would be highly motivated to have their Kapex fixed at Festool's time and expense, so it would seem that only those who have a dead Kapex that is out of warranty coverage would pursue this repair themselves.  Also the FTC ruled 2 days ago

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2018/04/ftc-staff-warns-companies-it-illegal-condition-warranty-coverage

that it is a violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act for a manufacturer to threaten to void a warranty contingent on requiring the use of specific parts or services unless the warrantor provides the parts or services free of charge.  I am not sure whether free of charge includes warranty related shipping costs but it would seem Festool USA may want to consult with its legal counsel before making such statements to its customers.

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 182
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #75 on: April 12, 2018, 01:59 PM »
@kevinculle - I don't want to detract from this particular discussion but do I want to thank you for posting the link to the FTC press release. In addition to your points, I found, in particular, the second bullet point to be rather informative - particularly how it may relate to Festool and the consumer's use of third-party products (like, for instance, fitting a Seneca adapter to the Domino XL). That said, I also found the third bullet point equally interesting. How often do we hear and/or read the exact opposite guidance (e.g. "don't break the seal or the warranty is voided")? The takeaway for me is that in the U.S.A. it is in contravention of the law for a company that has not otherwise received a waiver to deny a warranty claim based on a) a tool having been serviced outside the company's network, b) a tool having been fitted with unlicensed third-party parts or accessories and c) a factory seal having been torn. Very interesting indeed!     

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #76 on: April 12, 2018, 04:07 PM »

... it would seem that only those who have a dead Kapex that is out of warranty coverage would pursue this repair themselves.

I can speak for myself that I have never fixed any machines or tools (including household items like furnace or water softener, etc.) myself that are still under warranty. My Kapex's warranty just expired in past weeks and ALI's pdf will be my insurance policy for now.

Does Festool offer extended warranty? May be without admission of anything, Festool could offer extended warranty coverage for the Kapex to existing owners for a token price.

Offline TXFIVEO

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #77 on: April 12, 2018, 04:33 PM »
Going to start this reply by saying I’m a huge FESTOOL guy.  Have many of their tools.  But interesting how FESTOOL comments on voiding warranty but not on the obvious Kapex issue.  If it was addressed correctly (extended warranty/“recall”) they would actually make MORE $$$ because I would buy the  Kapex along with many others I’m sure. 

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #78 on: April 13, 2018, 07:36 AM »
@kevinculle - I don't want to detract from this particular discussion but do I want to thank you for posting the link to the FTC press release. In addition to your points, I found, in particular, the second bullet point to be rather informative - particularly how it may relate to Festool and the consumer's use of third-party products (like, for instance, fitting a Seneca adapter to the Domino XL)......   

If I had to guess on the second bullet point about using third party accessories, I'd say that is probably a gray area.  If a third party accessory radically changes the scope of the tool's intended use then I'd guess there would be some leeway for the manufacture to void the warranty.   
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #79 on: April 13, 2018, 07:46 AM »
Does Festool offer extended warranty? May be without admission of anything, Festool could offer extended warranty coverage for the Kapex to existing owners for a token price.

I don't want to pay for an extended warranty.  I want to hold Festool responsible for living up to its obligation to provide its customers the value for high end products we are paying for.

Interestingly, there seems to be a five year warranty for the kapex (motor only??) in Canada.  Its unclear if that longer warranty is on a new Kapex or only on the repair.  I've not heard anyone mention if this is only in Canada or if this is the policy in the US as well.   
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 4944
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #80 on: April 13, 2018, 09:28 AM »
Interestingly, there seems to be a five year warranty for the kapex (motor only??) in Canada.  Its unclear if that longer warranty is on a new Kapex or only on the repair.  I've not heard anyone mention if this is only in Canada or if this is the policy in the US as well.   

Brice, here's the Festool Canada website. Interestingly enough, nowhere does it mention a 5 year warranty on the Kapex. Even if you bring up the Kapex section, it still only mentions a 36 month warranty.

Yet, I've also heard it mentioned on the FOG that there's a 5 year warranty on the Kapex armature in Canada.

https://www.festoolcanada.com

Also interesting, is the website claims a 48 hour turnaround for service.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #81 on: April 13, 2018, 09:44 AM »
Yes! 5 years for Cdn owners accordingly to a recent repair experience shared another member. I better make a reminder note on my saw/paperwork.

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #82 on: April 13, 2018, 09:45 AM »
Brice, here's the Festool Canada website. Interestingly enough, nowhere does it mention a 5 year warranty on the Kapex. Even if you bring up the Kapex section, it still only mentions a 36 month warranty.

Yet, I've also heard it mentioned on the FOG that there's a 5 year warranty on the Kapex armature in Canada.

https://www.festoolcanada.com

Also interesting, is the website claims a 48 hour turnaround for service.

Don't be fooled  [tongue]

Official Festool websites are all the same. Look at the service number. The service phone # is the same for both USA and Can  [eek]

I suspect that there is not a single Festool Canada employee and that Canadians are dealing directly with Festool USA period. I'm wondering if I order a part if I will pay for duties. Any one from Canada have any experience ordering Festool parts from Festool?

Mario
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 09:47 AM by Mario Turcot »
Mario

Online Cheese

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #83 on: April 13, 2018, 10:15 AM »
Don't be fooled  [tongue]

Official Festool websites are all the same. Look at the service number. The service phone # is the same for both USA and Can  [eek]

I suspect that there is not a single Festool Canada employee and that Canadians are dealing directly with Festool USA period.

Well I did notice this on the Canadian website:

Festool Canada Inc.
400 N. Enterprise Blvd
Lebanon, IN 46052
USA
Telephone 1-888-337-8600

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #84 on: April 13, 2018, 10:29 AM »
Never ordered any parts but if I need to, I will do it through Lee Valley Tools where I bought all my Festool machines. May be they have a shipping arrangement that will take care of the import duties matter.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #85 on: April 13, 2018, 10:14 PM »
...I suspect that there is not a single Festool Canada employee and that Canadians are dealing directly with Festool USA period....

There is a service center in Alexandria, ON.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 540
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #86 on: April 13, 2018, 11:20 PM »
There is a service center in Alexandria, ON.

Thanks Brice, good to know

I was curious where in Alexandria this is located and google map the service center address. Looks to me like a certified repair shop, sitting in a residential zone.

Alexandria

Mario
Mario

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #87 on: April 14, 2018, 01:00 PM »

I am surprised to see this thread not deleted, so that’s a good thing.


Yes, and @ALI Construction Thank you for taking the time to document the fix.
Tim

Offline Peter Durand

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #88 on: April 14, 2018, 07:26 PM »
...I suspect that there is not a single Festool Canada employee and that Canadians are dealing directly with Festool USA period....

There is a service center in Alexandria, ON.

Unfortunately I think that that is just a place for Canadians to send their tools that are then forwarded to the USA. (When there are enough to make a consolidated shipment?) When I sent my track saw during the recall I kept track and the message from the carrier was that it was left at the garage door. No one was there to receive during business hours.

Cheers,

Peter

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #89 on: April 14, 2018, 07:38 PM »
i am of the belief that there is at least one service person in Canada.  But frankly who the crap cares if your tools are serviced.

Sometimes the nit picky junk is frankly much.

Hope everyone is working safely and productively this weekend.

Peter