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Author Topic: Another dead Kapex.  (Read 10831 times)

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Offline ALI Construction

  • Posts: 16
Another dead Kapex.
« on: April 08, 2018, 12:03 AM »
Intro: Hi all, my 1st post here thought I've bin reading these forums for few years already.

big festool fan got lots of their stuff alrady: df500, t15 impact with all attachments, 0f1010, ts55 with all rail lengths, trion(hate it), ets125 ec (brushless, love it) ct36, ctMini, bunch of other systainers and sortainers, few router jigs, and misc attachments. also got a kapex 120, with wings.

brief description:
kapex went up in smoke (just like many stories here) i didn't even open it up, knew it was the armature gone, ordered armature and brushes same day, armature came in 4 business days later, brushes took additional 4 days cause they were on back order, but i installed the field with old brushes because i had work to do, and didn't feel like using my old dewalt (temporary saw) any longer then I had to. the whole fix time took mi less then an hour, and that included me realigning the saw with a 5 cut method. (wasn't really necessary but i check it every once in a while)


Longer detailed story:

saw was made in 2014 according to sticker on motor cover, i purchased it from a guy i knew for cash, he originally purchased it from woodcraft at a show, but never used it. he had it sitting for a year. anyways i got it brand new from him because it was still in box, in foam with a big white ziptie holding the head to the table. 2014 was not original purchase date, who knows how long its bin sitting on shelve before 1st sale, the guy just never registered it, hence we had to go by the manufactured date.

when i called festool they could not veryfy any purchase dates via SN or TN, so over the phone they told me we would have to go by manufactured date which put the saw out of warranty automatically cause that was 2014.
I have used the kapex for 2 years so far btw this is my trim/kitchen installation saw only. i frame strictly with skilsaw, and for cutting  firewood i use my old dewalt. i keep my blades cleaned regularly and sharp (had woodcraft sharpen my 2 60T few times already) also bought an 80T. always used festool blades, never any other brands. 99 % of time i run this saw thru my CT 36, never thru a generator or any unstable electricity. almost never use speed control (i don't cut metal with this saw)

so roughly 2 years, and armature pops.
since saw is out of warranty (technically) they let me order parts:
armature: ~ $160
brushes: ~ $20
+tax/shipping total came around $230

now i have a spare unopened set of brushes because my old brushes were barely used when i pulled them i measured and they had 5/8" of graphite left in open position, after new brushes came in i measured them as well and they are 3/4" of graphite as NEW.
so since my old brushes only wore 1/6th of their life I'm leaving them in there.
yes during reinstall i've sanded them down around a socket wrapped with 400 grit paper to make new clean radius (socket same diameter as armature) everything works perfectly again, no sparks smells or smoke for 1 week of every day use so far.

reason i've decided to share this story with u guys is because i feel festool should at least acknowledge they have a COMMON problem with these armatures, and at least provide armatures to us as owners free of charge, i will try to upload pics if i can, the way the old armature looks is there's no way this is wear/tear, but clearly a failed design on their end. i mean $1500 saw with only 3 years of warranty and a known time-bomb?

i've bin reading up on armatures and their failures, and this particular failure according to other sources usually happens when windings have too thin of an insulator (urethane most of the time), and during slightest heat it would short within itself making armature electrically unbalanced. again, i'm no electrical engineer, just few things i've picked up researching

I feel like I should at least order another armature just to keep on the truck as spare now? or using the old armature bracket maybe see if its possible to rig up a stronger motor to the shaft, because armature also includes the aluminum bracket and shaft has the spline that spins the 90 degree transfer to blade. aluminum bracket has 4 holes which would allow me to mount anything i rig up to that shaft to existing side mount. (very unlikely option, but possible)
after all these saws are underpowered.

TO FESTOOL: please come up with a brush-less motor for these kapexes and we will all love you for that. you guys already did it for 5" sanders, just give us a larger brushless motor and will love you guys for instant torque and instant blade break (assuming it will act similar to ets125's instant on/off)


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Festool Note added by Moderator...............

  Readers should note that the instructions shown in this thread were developed solely by the writer, and without any input or approval from Festool. Anyone choosing to attempt the aforementioned repairs on their own should be aware that such an attempt will, in all likelihood, void any remaining warranty on their tool and could possibly lead to safety issues, along with other performance-related problems. Festool always recommends that repairs of this type be undertaken only by qualified technicians in a certified Festool repair facility.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 02:26 PM by ALI Construction »

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 470
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2018, 12:34 AM »
Thank you for sharing your story. I wish I had your kind of mech. skill.

Offline Green Koolaide

  • Posts: 110
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2018, 02:20 AM »
Intro: Hi all, my 1st post here thought I've bin reading these forums for few years already.

big festool fan got lots of their stuff alrady: df500, t15 impact with all attachments, 0f1010, ts55 with all rail lengths, trion(hate it), ets125 ec (brushless, love it) ct36, ctMini, bunch of other systainers and sortainers, few router jigs, and misc attachments. also got a kapex 120, with wings.

brief description:
kapex went up in smoke (just like many stories here) i didn't even open it up, knew it was the armature gone, ordered armature and brushes same day, armature came in 4 business days later, brushes took additional 4 days cause they were on back order, but i installed the field with old brushes because i had work to do, and didn't feel like using my old dewalt (temporary saw) any longer then I had to. the whole fix time took mi less then an hour, and that included me realigning the saw with a 5 cut method. (wasn't really necessary but i check it every once in a while)


Longer detailed story:

saw was made in 2014 according to sticker on motor cover, i purchased it from a guy i knew for cash, he originally purchased it from woodcraft at a show, but never used it. he had it sitting for a year. anyways i got it brand new from him because it was still in box, in foam with a big white ziptie holding the head to the table. 2014 was not original purchase date, who knows how long its bin sitting on shelve before 1st sale, the guy just never registered it, hence we had to go by the manufactured date.

when i called festool they could not veryfy any purchase dates via SN or TN, so over the phone they told me we would have to go by manufactured date which put the saw out of warranty automatically cause that was 2014.
I have used the kapex for 2 years so far btw this is my trim/kitchen installation saw only. i frame strictly with skilsaw, and for cutting  firewood i use my old dewalt. i keep my blades cleaned regularly and sharp (had woodcraft sharpen my 2 60T few times already) also bought an 80T. always used festool blades, never any other brands. 99 % of time i run this saw thru my CT 36, never thru a generator or any unstable electricity. almost never use speed control (i don't cut metal with this saw)

so roughly 2 years, and armature pops.
since saw is out of warranty (technically) they let me order parts:
armature: ~ $160
brushes: ~ $20
+tax/shipping total came around $230

now i have a spare unopened set of brushes because my old brushes were barely used when i pulled them i measured and they had 5/8" of graphite left in open position, after new brushes came in i measured them as well and they are 3/4" of graphite as NEW.
so since my old brushes only wore 1/6th of their life I'm leaving them in there.
yes during reinstall i've sanded them down around a socket wrapped with 400 grit paper to make new clean radius (socket same diameter as armature) everything works perfectly again, no sparks smells or smoke for 1 week of every day use so far.

reason i've decided to share this story with u guys is because i feel festool should at least acknowledge they have a COMMON problem with these armatures, and at least provide armatures to us as owners free of charge, i will try to upload pics if i can, the way the old armature looks is there's no way this is wear/tear, but clearly a failed design on their end. i mean $1500 saw with only 3 years of warranty and a known time-bomb?

i've bin reading up on armatures and their failures, and this particular failure according to other sources usually happens when windings have too thin of an insulator (urethane most of the time), and during slightest heat it would short within itself making armature electrically unbalanced. again, i'm no electrical engineer, just few things i've picked up researching

I feel like I should at least order another armature just to keep on the truck as spare now? or using the old armature bracket maybe see if its possible to rig up a stronger motor to the shaft, because armature also includes the aluminum bracket and shaft has the spline that spins the 90 degree transfer to blade. aluminum bracket has 4 holes which would allow me to mount anything i rig up to that shaft to existing side mount. (very unlikely option, but possible)
after all these saws are underpowered.

TO FESTOOL: please come up with a brush-less motor for these kapexes and we will all love you for that. you guys already did it for 5" sanders, just give us a larger brushless motor and will love you guys for instant torque and instant blade break (assuming it will act similar to ets125's instant on/off)
Can you describe what we are lookingat in image #3


Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

"Five out of every four people have problems with fractions"

Offline Retired Chippy

  • Posts: 49
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2018, 02:57 AM »
Picture #3 is the backside of the whole part shown in picture #2
Wallflower and information sponge

Offline PaulH99

  • Posts: 110
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2018, 06:37 AM »
kapex went up in smoke (just like many stories here) i didn't even open it up, knew it was the armature gone, ordered armature and brushes same day, armature came in 4 business days later, brushes took additional 4 days cause they were on back order, but i installed the field with old brushes because i had work to do, and didn't feel like using my old dewalt (temporary saw) any longer then I had to. the whole fix time took mi less then an hour, and that included me realigning the saw with a 5 cut method. (wasn't really necessary but i check it every once in a while)

Given the expense that many go through to ship their saw back to Festool for this exact repair, would you be open to the possibility of posting a video showing how you opened up the motor and put it back together again? I bet many folks on the forum would appreciate being able to repair their out-of-warranty saw for $230 and an hour of their time instead of sending it back to the service center.
-Paul
CT 26 • DF 500 • ETS 125 • KS 120 • OF 1400 • PS 420 • RO 125 • TS 55 R

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 470
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2018, 06:48 AM »
Excellent suggestion!

Perhaps Festool should do it, even if anonymously.

Offline ALI Construction

  • Posts: 16
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2018, 09:08 AM »
Wow cool crowd here, didn’t think I’d get so many responses over night. (Eastern time zone here)

I’ll reserve this post now for later use, I’ll try to edit it later today hopefully, will take motor cover apart, and maybe a few more things, but not all the way,  because I don’t want to disturb the be top bearing ( I won’t split armature away from field winding) that’s the last step anywais, will just explain how to.

With pictures.

Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1337
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2018, 09:08 AM »
Thank you ALl Construction for an informative post and welcome to the FOG.

Offline PaulH99

  • Posts: 110
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2018, 09:10 AM »
As an alternative, make a completely new post. The moderators might be able to "sticky" it to the top of the forum for those interested in repairing their own saw.
-Paul
CT 26 • DF 500 • ETS 125 • KS 120 • OF 1400 • PS 420 • RO 125 • TS 55 R

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2418
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2018, 09:42 AM »
Appreciate your doing this process.  My Kapex is an original and I’ve had no issues but good to know parts and self repair could be an option.

And welcome to FOG.  BTW I have not had an issue with photo size... definitely larger than 400k for my inserts...

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4582
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2018, 09:49 AM »
Great post...[thumbs up] [thumbs up]...seriously, I feel a lot less angst knowing I can fix the Kapex myself for $230 as opposed to sending it in to Festool and paying $450+.
[sad]

I've always wondered if mine smoked, if I would even fix it or just sell it as-is. This isn't a bad option...it's a great option.  [cool]

Seems like Festool could just put together their own first aid package which would include the armature, brushes, grease and instructions.

Maybe these would become a staple for Kapex owners, I'm serious, what's the difference between keeping a spare $170 Kapex 80 tooth blade around or keeping a spare $160 Kapex armature around?   [tongue]

I'd argue, the armature would be more important to keep as a spare item. That 80 tooth blade won't cut much of anything without a good armature behind it.  [crying]
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 09:53 AM by Cheese »

Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1337
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2018, 09:51 AM »
"Seems like Festool could just put together their own first aid package which would include the armature, brushes, grease and instructions. "

Wise ^^

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7337
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2018, 11:08 AM »
Seems like Festool could just put together their own first aid package which would include the armature, brushes, grease and instructions.

Do you really want their grease?? [tongue]
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
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  • Posts: 11346
  • Another Avatar Coming Soon
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2018, 11:32 AM »
I hate to put my Moderator hat on here, but unless Festool approves ( @TylerC , @Festool USA ) give an approval for posting a video or an image thread about repairing a tool - any tool - here it will probably not be allowed.

This has nothing to do with the Kapex issues posted here.  It has nothing to do with Festool's quietness on the subject.  Although this forum is owned by Festool USA it has always been treated as its own entity.  This is about safety.  We try to not allow depictions of modifications of the tools and I would imagine taking apart a tool to repair it would fall along the same lines.

Other hat on now.  I am a Kapex owner.  I am surprised that nothing has come forth over the months about the Kapex.  I would love to see a video or a pictorial but I imagine that if I were to something like that I would put it on youtube or a place away from the forum and then offer to send links to those interested.

Peter

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3332
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2018, 11:40 AM »
I hate to put my Moderator hat on here, but unless Festool approves ( @TylerC , @Festool USA ) give an approval for posting a video or an image thread about repairing a tool - any tool - here it will probably not be allowed.

This has nothing to do with the Kapex issues posted here.  It has nothing to do with Festool's quietness on the subject.  Although this forum is owned by Festool USA it has always been treated as its own entity.  This is about safety.  We try to not allow depictions of modifications of the tools and I would imagine taking apart a tool to repair it would fall along the same lines.

Other hat on now.  I am a Kapex owner.  I am surprised that nothing has come forth over the months about the Kapex.  I would love to see a video or a pictorial but I imagine that if I were to something like that I would put it on youtube or a place away from the forum and then offer to send links to those interested.

Peter

Word to the wise...

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 470
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2018, 11:43 AM »
If it is considered that this Forum is not the appropriate platform to post the DIY Kapex fix, I hope the OP will consider doing so either on other public channels (youtube or other woodworking forums) or sharing such info. via PM. It may be too much work to create a video, but even step-by-step photos with captions would be a great help.

Offline Green Mojo

  • Posts: 41
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2018, 12:15 PM »
Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me could weigh in... Do you think you could take the dead armature to a motor shop and have it properly rewound?

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5668
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2018, 12:17 PM »
I hate to put my Moderator hat on here, but unless Festool approves ( @TylerC , @Festool USA ) give an approval for posting a video or an image thread about repairing a tool - any tool - here it will probably not be allowed.

I've posted plenty of pictures of tools I've opened and repaired in the past, and it was never a problem, not a single time. And that was mostly under the Shane regime, and I can tell you from experience he was a lot more picky than Tyler, the current Festool representative. Repair is not the same as modification.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5668
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2018, 12:19 PM »
Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me could weigh in... Do you think you could take the dead armature to a motor shop and have it properly rewound?

That's nearly impossible without the proper machine to do that.

Offline Peter Halle

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  • Posts: 11346
  • Another Avatar Coming Soon
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2018, 01:03 PM »
I hate to put my Moderator hat on here, but unless Festool approves ( @TylerC , @Festool USA ) give an approval for posting a video or an image thread about repairing a tool - any tool - here it will probably not be allowed.

I've posted plenty of pictures of tools I've opened and repaired in the past, and it was never a problem, not a single time. And that was mostly under the Shane regime, and I can tell you from experience he was a lot more picky than Tyler, the current Festool representative. Repair is not the same as modification.

Alex,  I just wanted to give the OP a heads up as well as readers about expectations.  I know what it is like to spend time putting together videos and pictorials and then never having the views to justify the time spent.  As far as I am concerned it will be up to Festool USA to allow or disallow.  I have a recollection of numerous posts here about tools being sent in for repair and then the owner decides not to have it repaired and they get it back in parts because of Festool policies dictated by risk management programs.

I was just trying to do what I thought was the right thing in this instance.

Peter

Offline ALI Construction

  • Posts: 16
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2018, 01:58 PM »
Relax ppl I’ll have a tutorial coming soon, I just took it apart and put it back together while taking atleast 25-30 pictures, will edit some, insert text, and make a word or pdf file for everyone who requests to see. Give me an hour or two. Y’all lucky kids r sleeping and I really didn’t feel like taking them anywhere today. Maybe later for them.
Anywais, just wait.
By the way after doing it a second time I really think this is a half hour deal. I mean whole thing with taking pictures took like 35-40 min

As far as technicalities, oh well, this is a grown ups forum, if you as a user rather pay ~$500 for someone else to fix something that should have not bin broken in a first place, you decide.
I say if you do your own oil changes in your car, you can tackle this easily

I am fully aware of the risks I’m taking in taking this saw appart.

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1043
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2018, 02:50 PM »
Nice! A tutorial on this would be awesome! Thanks for putting the time into that!
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 470
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2018, 02:52 PM »
There is no way I will pay $500 to repair my Kapex which three-year warranty just expired if it goes broken, especially there is no guarantee that it will not break down again within a couple of years.

So I am more than willing to take the risk of fixing it myself based on a set of field tested instructions. Thanks in advance for your pdfs and I sure hope, after reviewing them when I get them, I will never have to open them again....

Online kevinculle

  • Posts: 198
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2018, 03:35 PM »
ALI Construction,

Hats off to you for taking the plunge...hearing that this is a less than one hour job makes it a no-brainer in my mind!  Looking forward to seeing your tutorial.

Offline ALI Construction

  • Posts: 16
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2018, 04:19 PM »
so taking it apart with pictures and assembling back together took like 40 min, editing it in word and paint took almost 3hrs.
so i have a PDF of a rudimentary tutorial put together, anyone interested, message me, and ill email it. also since this is my first one ever, please leave feedback/criticism on this forum.

Thx

P.S. don't hate, i'm a carpenter, not a computer geek lol

Offline ALI Construction

  • Posts: 16
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2018, 05:07 PM »
Also another suggestion for festool, this would maybe fit best in suggestions section but oh well:
while i was taking saw apart, why did festool pick the flimsy bevel lever and bevel stops?
Many saws noways have all upfront switches which are very convenient, I love the fine bevel adjust via a know thru right side rail.

What if bevel release would be changed for top rear (not always convenient to reach there) to a quarter turn style and incorporated into the other rail? you guys already have the design.
while were at it, might as well throw a separate selector ring on that same rain between rail and release/tighten knob for he 0-45,+45/-45, and +47/-47 presets? maybe even add a 22.5 degree presets in there?
kinda like turning rear windshield wipers on in most cars where switch sits right next to front wipers switch on a turn signal.

and I'm still longing for a brushless motors on these things. now that's a saw worth $1500 in my opinion.

Online kevinculle

  • Posts: 198
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2018, 07:47 PM »
Although it's far too risky to post here I had a chance to review ALI Construction's document and it makes the Kapex armature repair very doable!  Nice job ALIC!

All that remains is the deafening silence from Festool on the Kapex armature (non-) issue.

Offline dicktill

  • Posts: 297
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2018, 08:08 PM »
Although it's far too risky to post here I had a chance to review ALI Construction's document and it makes the Kapex armature repair very doable!  Nice job ALIC!

All that remains is the deafening silence from Festool on the Kapex armature (non-) issue.

I got it too; thanks, and great job!

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 470
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2018, 08:45 PM »
Thanks for taking so much time to prepare the pdf. I probably would need an hour to replace the parts.

Now, the groundwork has been laid. If any future unfortunate Kapex owner gets to fix his or her saw based on this set of instructions and shoot a video of the process, please share it. Every Kapex owner (other than those who are never worried about theirs) would appreciate it.

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1043
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2018, 09:01 PM »
How large is the PDF file? Can it not be posted as an attachment to a post?
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline ALI Construction

  • Posts: 16
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2018, 09:14 PM »
It’s only just under 3 MB, which is nothing, I don’t have permission to post it here though cause whole thread might get removed, unless we have festool a permission. Oh well, for now I’ll email to anyone that asks, and also anyone that gets it, spread it around, I don’t care what u do with it, if it saves another kapex I’m good with that.

So far quite a few ppl have asked, please include ur emails as well because I can’t attach it via this messaging system.

On my phone for now, will email few ppl that already asked when I get home

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7337
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2018, 10:03 PM »
It’s only just under 3 MB, which is nothing, I don’t have permission to post it here though cause whole thread might get removed, unless we have festool a permission. Oh well, for now I’ll email to anyone that asks, and also anyone that gets it, spread it around, I don’t care what u do with it, if it saves another kapex I’m good with that.

So far quite a few ppl have asked, please include ur emails as well because I can’t attach it via this messaging system.

On my phone for now, will email few ppl that already asked when I get home

Thanks for taking the time to put together the pdf.  Also, thanks for allowing us to pass it around, that way we can make sure this info gets to those that need it now and in the future. 

If any of you do share this pdf be sure to give ALI Construction the credit. 
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1043
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2018, 10:14 PM »
I just tried it and it looks like you should have no problem attaching a 3MB PDF file to a post here.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7337
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2018, 11:08 PM »
I just tried it and it looks like you should have no problem attaching a 3MB PDF file to a post here.

Do not attach the pdf on this forum without permission from ALI Construction and Festool USA.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline JD2720

  • Posts: 972
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2018, 07:20 AM »
Thank you to ALI Construction for taking the time to put this information together..

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 379
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2018, 09:18 AM »
Thank you Ali for putting together that tutorial. You have my permission to call it "Save a Kapex from the trash"  [big grin]

Mario
Mario

Offline PaulH99

  • Posts: 110
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2018, 09:19 AM »
You have my thanks too! It's one of those things that I hope to never need, but I'm happy to keep in my back pocket, "just in case."
-Paul
CT 26 • DF 500 • ETS 125 • KS 120 • OF 1400 • PS 420 • RO 125 • TS 55 R

Online RKA

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2018, 10:18 AM »
Many thanks ALI!! 
-Raj

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1043
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2018, 12:08 PM »
I just tried it and it looks like you should have no problem attaching a 3MB PDF file to a post here.

Do not attach the pdf on this forum without permission from ALI Construction and Festool USA.
Interesting, why is it Festool USA cares if a PDF is attached? And FOG as well? Whats the deal there? And if it's an issue why don't they remove the option?
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline waho6o9

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2018, 12:34 PM »
Thanks for the PDF ALl Construction! it's printed out and filed away.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2018, 12:40 PM »
Interesting, why is it Festool USA cares if a PDF is attached? And FOG as well? Whats the deal there? And if it's an issue why don't they remove the option?

I believe most people know that Festool USA owns and operates the FOG.  As a company owned forum Festool has to be careful about opening themselves up to possible liability when it comes to things like diy repairs posted on this forum.  If in doubt its best to check with Festool first if there is a question if something is appropriate or not.   
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1043
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2018, 12:44 PM »
Interesting, why is it Festool USA cares if a PDF is attached? And FOG as well? Whats the deal there? And if it's an issue why don't they remove the option?

I believe most people know that Festool USA owns and operates the FOG.  As a company owned forum Festool has to be careful about opening themselves up to possible liability when it comes to things like diy repairs posted on this forum.  If in doubt its best to check with Festool first if there is a question if something is appropriate or not.   
Interesting... That sounds a little odd to me, but I guess legal stuff often takes on some wonky logic, so yea. Is this in writing somewhere on the site? What is the official process for gaining approval to post a PDF? Email a mod? Or a particular FOG member?
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5668
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2018, 01:11 PM »
What is the official process for gaining approval to post a PDF? Email a mod? Or a particular FOG member?

There is no official process, you just do it. If the content is not ok with Festool, it might be deleted by the mods. There is no problem with most posts or attachments, only with some that in some way might endanger a person or open Festool to liability.

Is this in writing somewhere on the site?

http://festoolownersgroup.com/forum-rules-guidelines-suggestions/

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1043
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2018, 01:21 PM »
What is the official process for gaining approval to post a PDF? Email a mod? Or a particular FOG member?

There is no official process, you just do it. If the content is not ok with Festool, it might be deleted by the mods. There is no problem with most posts or attachments, only with some that in some way might endanger a person or open Festool to liability.

Is this in writing somewhere on the site?

http://festoolownersgroup.com/forum-rules-guidelines-suggestions/

Thank you, on both points. Thats how I figured it would work and what would be normal. Brice was just making it sound weird.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7337
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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2018, 01:27 PM »
Interesting, why is it Festool USA cares if a PDF is attached? And FOG as well? Whats the deal there? And if it's an issue why don't they remove the option?

I believe most people know that Festool USA owns and operates the FOG.  As a company owned forum Festool has to be careful about opening themselves up to possible liability when it comes to things like diy repairs posted on this forum.  If in doubt its best to check with Festool first if there is a question if something is appropriate or not.   
Interesting... That sounds a little odd to me, but I guess legal stuff often takes on some wonky logic, so yea. Is this in writing somewhere on the site? What is the official process for gaining approval to post a PDF? Email a mod? Or a particular FOG member?

I don't know if its in writing anywhere and there isn't an official process for approval.  Also, this isn't about a pdf, its about posting any information that might be viewed as a liability for Festool. 

Servicing your own tools is a topic that sort of fall into a gray area.  There's nothing wrong with a qualified person servicing tools.  Posting a tutorial on how to service a tool for anyone to use, whether qualified or not, well like I said, its sort of a gray area.

As for inquiring about permission to post something that might be in that gray area, I'd suggest you contact TylerC, he's a Festool employee and the forum administrator.         
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline petar73

  • Posts: 6
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2018, 02:55 PM »
This Is ridiculous , Festool should have sorted kapex’s motor problem years ago if they don’t want people DIY.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 470
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2018, 03:01 PM »
Each forum or site can dictate its own rules  But youtube has many unsafe videos that it seems to have no liability worries.

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1043
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2018, 03:43 PM »
Each forum or site can dictate its own rules  But youtube has many unsafe videos that it seems to have no liability worries.
Ha! Yea really. Good point.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 836
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2018, 07:43 PM »
Servicing your own tools is a topic that sort of fall into a gray area.
Festool sells the parts to their endusers, them having problems with their endusers being educating on how to install these would be a silly stance.

Slap a warning disclaimer on it ('you need to know what you're doing or you should make one that does do it') and post it.

Offline ALI Construction

  • Posts: 16
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2018, 08:05 PM »
Hi all, just got home,
replied to everyone that PM'd me for it.

btw I'm not hosting it anywhere, its just on my desktop so i can only attach it for now and sand it to you via e-mail.

few people that PM'd me forgot to include their emails, so guys don't forget that.

So far i've only bin warned here, and i also asked a moderator for permission to post it here, but got no response yet, so i'll just be emailing it for now.

So far around 30+ ppl already asked and got it.

by the way guys that have it already, please spread it around for all I care.

I'm actually surprised that so many people are interested lol

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 470
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2018, 08:35 PM »

I'm actually surprised that so many people are interested lol

I was interested (thanks for your pdf) because I do not make $250 an hour, the estimated amount of saving I would achieve if I did the repair myself based on the estimated amount of time I would need to fix it and the cost of the parts).  [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5668
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #51 on: April 10, 2018, 01:35 AM »
I'm actually surprised that so many people are interested lol

Lots of worried Kapex owners here.

Offline epicxt

  • Posts: 424
Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #52 on: April 10, 2018, 02:06 AM »
Hi all, just got home,
replied to everyone that PM'd me for it.

btw I'm not hosting it anywhere, its just on my desktop so i can only attach it for now and sand it to you via e-mail.

few people that PM'd me forgot to include their emails, so guys don't forget that.

So far i've only bin warned here, and i also asked a moderator for permission to post it here, but got no response yet, so i'll just be emailing it for now.

So far around 30+ ppl already asked and got it.

by the way guys that have it already, please spread it around for all I care.

I'm actually surprised that so many people are interested lol
There have been enough problems reported with the motor that all of us that have older saws are happy to have a cheaper fix. I've had mine since 2012 with no motor issues yet, but I'm stoked to have this option in case it burns out.

Thanks again!
n = number of Festools I've got.  (n + 1) = Festools I want

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 379
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #53 on: April 10, 2018, 07:42 AM »
Thanks for the PDF Ali, very easy to follow :D

Hi all, just got home,
replied to everyone that PM'd me for it.

btw I'm not hosting it anywhere, its just on my desktop so i can only attach it for now and sand it to you via e-mail.

What grit you've used :P
Mario

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4582
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #54 on: April 10, 2018, 08:48 AM »
Thanks Ali for the Kapex .pdf, it's easy to follow and reads well, I like the tips.  [thumbs up] 

Let's hope I never have to use it, however, I'm not holding my breath.  [eek]

Offline ALI Construction

  • Posts: 16
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #55 on: April 10, 2018, 09:24 AM »
Thanks for the PDF Ali, very easy to follow :D

Hi all, just got home,
replied to everyone that PM'd me for it.

btw I'm not hosting it anywhere, its just on my desktop so i can only attach it for now and sand it to you via e-mail.

What grit you've used :P

This one :)

Offline ALI Construction

  • Posts: 16
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #56 on: April 10, 2018, 10:34 PM »
repplied to all PM's again.

crazy. so far 53 ppl got it. if someone has a desire to host itsomwhere like geocitioes or wherever, go for it, otherwise i hope ill have time every night to keep up with PM's lol

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1043
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2018, 12:13 AM »
I say just post it here. The mods will take it down if they dont like it. Unless they already told you not to...
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline miclee15

  • Posts: 36
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2018, 08:44 AM »
if someone has a desire to host itsomwhere like geocitioes or wherever, go for it

I've put this on a google drive :

« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 11:29 PM by SRSemenza »

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1043
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2018, 10:03 AM »
if someone has a desire to host itsomwhere like geocitioes or wherever, go for it

THERE we go! Thank you!
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 11:26 PM by SRSemenza »
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline NL-mikkla

  • Posts: 248
  • www.m144h.com
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #60 on: April 11, 2018, 10:17 AM »
Thanks Ali for the PDF

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Festool USA

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #61 on: April 11, 2018, 11:00 AM »
Readers should note that the instructions shown in this thread were developed solely by the writer, and without any input or approval from Festool. Anyone choosing to attempt the aforementioned repairs on their own should be aware that such an attempt will, in all likelihood, void any remaining warranty on their tool and could possibly lead to safety issues, along with other performance-related problems. Festool always recommends that repairs of this type be undertaken only by qualified technicians in a certified Festool repair facility.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 470
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #62 on: April 11, 2018, 11:10 AM »
Thanks for putting out this reminder instead of removing the thread or discussion.

I totally agree that anyone doing their own repair or even modification on any Festool tools should be responsible for their own actions with regard to safety and warranty issues. Each owner must evaluate the benefits, costs and risks of doing a fix themselves.

I have done a lot of fixes on all sorts of things myself with both success and failure stories. I would not have thought of trying to fix my Kapex if one day it broke down before I read ALI's story. With the pdf he has created, I think I would give it a try, but I sincerely hope that day would never come.

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 97
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2018, 11:44 AM »
I REALLY wanted to buy the Kapex.
Your SUBJECT line says it all.
I’ll stick with my Bosch 5412L Compound Miter Saw.
Like many other “Green Kool Aid” faithful -
For many years I’ve been pretty much an “exclusive” Festool buyer/user.
I’ve spent $1000’s investing in Festool products.
Sadly - No more.
Just too many, continuing/increasing number of reports -
Of Festool tool failures, the last several years.

It appears that this once exceptional brand of tools - Sold at premium prices -
With relentless annual price increases - Even on unchanged/unimproved tools -
Is now becoming a brand of relatively competitive quality “me too” tools -
Trying to trade on “yesterday’s reputation” of excellence.

As my “out of warranty” Festool tools fail - And require “out of pocket” repairs -
I find myself reluctantly replacing them with tools of competitive brands.
Their failure rates - Are more and more - Comparable to Festool -
But cost 1/2 to 2/3 the prices of Festool products. I’m not alone.

The Wizard of Oz was able to “dazzle ‘em” with hype for a while -
But the “curtain” of reality eventually came down.
Frankly, it’s sad to watch the same thing happening with Festool.☹️
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 379
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #64 on: April 11, 2018, 01:10 PM »
I REALLY wanted to buy the Kapex.
Your SUBJECT line says it all.
I’ll stick with my Bosch 5412L Compound Miter Saw.
Like many other “Green Kool Aid” faithful -
For many years I’ve been pretty much an “exclusive” Festool buyer/user.
I’ve spent $1000’s investing in Festool products.

Copy/Paste much

Are you trying to convince people? Because you did your rent several times already.

Me, like most mature people on the FOG.. I make up my own mind about tools and brands, thank you for your concerns.

Mario
Mario

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #65 on: April 11, 2018, 01:18 PM »
Forum could definitely do with less repetitive cross topic  posting.


Seth
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 01:54 PM by SRSemenza »

Offline mikeyr

  • Posts: 59
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #66 on: April 11, 2018, 06:01 PM »
I understand the legal issues for Festool, maybe if they fixed the Kapex we would not be in this boat.  BUT I can't imagine that any of us here with the skills to work with our hands, could not figure out how to open up the Kapex and swap parts.  I pull motors and gearboxes on cars not saws all the time and its not rocket science, sure the first one is daunting and you might forget to put the reverse gear in (Ok, I didn't forget the reverse gear, I forgot the pawl that moves it into reverse so I had to carefully plan how to park for 2 weeks until I took it apart again) but worries that Festool would not allow the instructions seemed overboard (I know they did allow it, talking about the first 2 pages where people thought they might not).  I doubt there are too many people who would take their saw apart while under warranty, but after warranty is out I also can't imagine any issues for Festool.  Its only a tool.

 Any decent alternator/generator rebuild shop should be able to rewind that armature quite easily.
ex-cabinet maker, now I just play with wood

Offline ALI Construction

  • Posts: 16
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #67 on: April 11, 2018, 07:55 PM »
Mikeyr

You’re right.
As far as permission though, I was specifically via a PM advised not to post anything on here, and that didn’t bother me much.
I am surprised to see this thread not deleted, so that’s a good thing.

As far as rewinding the old armature, I already asked around here Philly, PA. Few shops quoted me 500-700 to rewind and rebalance armature. It’s really small, and most shops don’t wanna touch it.
So far I haven’t tossed the old armature yet because I was thinking of trying to rewind it myself,
Just still have to figure out as far as rebalancing it.

But for $160 I doubt anyone would bother rewinding. Unless a shop that does it is crazy enough to also provide lifetime warranty on their rewind.

Still baffles me, the only thing that’s special about this $160 piece is the aluminum casting that it comes with. Shaft is pressed into it, and then the gear is also pressed onto the shaft.
I’ve replaced armatures in Lakota routers, delta chop saws, and an old bt3000 TS I have, most of those armatures cost half the price of this one, or lower.

And them cheaper (so called inferior) brands are way more reliable

EDIT:
Props to our MODS (I won’t point fingers)
But apparently they have shook a tree, and we got a permission to do stuff like this. Obviously with appropriate warnings like. You WILL void any remaining waranty by trying to fix stuff yourself, but they won’t Frobisher you from doing so I you choose to.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 08:04 PM by ALI Construction »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4582
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #68 on: April 11, 2018, 11:20 PM »
...maybe if they fixed the Kapex we would not be in this boat.

Amen...a very serious amen. If this was an exploding gas tank in a Pinto or a scored cylinder in a Vega, the entire world would be all over it. Unfortunately it’s only a bad armature design from a little known tool manufacturer from Germany. It’s all pretty low hanging fruit 🍌...unless of course, you’re the owner of that low hanging fruit, that you paid a high hanging fruit price for.

Come on Festool corporate, just do the right thing and solve the problem you propagated, and continue to propagate on a daily basis as you continue to market and sell the the Kapex without seemingly, any concern for the current user issues. Have you no shame?

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #69 on: April 11, 2018, 11:34 PM »
There has been a small issue with the link. It has been temporarily removed. I expect it will be back shortly. Or even better that the tutorial is just posted on FOG.

UPDATE>  issue has been resolved. There is now a pdf a couple posts down.

Seth
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 09:39 AM by SRSemenza »

Offline Ajax

  • Posts: 189
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #70 on: April 12, 2018, 01:04 AM »
A used TS 75 is my last Festool. 

The Kapex is amazing, but for the cost I shouldn't feel like it's gonna die at any moment.  I should have total confidence in the tool, but I don't.  It's really a shame.  Festool is sending their reputation down the toilet on this.

Thank goodness the user community is allowed to step up when corporate goes silent.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 01:14 AM by Ajax »
Kapex KS120, MFT/3, TS55 REQ, RTS400, RO90 DX FEQ, D90 Assortment, RO150 REQ, ETS 150/3, PRO5, D150 Assortment, DF 500, Domino 4/5/8/10 Assortment, DF700 XL, Domino 12/14 Assortment,  CT Midi, MFT/3, Kapex MFT, 2 x SysRoll

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 836
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #71 on: April 12, 2018, 03:57 AM »
There has been a small issue with the link. It has been temporarily removed. I expect it will be back shortly. Or even better that the tutorial is just posted on FOG.
Attached it is, directly, without advertisements.
* Kapex Armature.pdf (2010.94 kB - downloaded 203 times.)

Offline miclee15

  • Posts: 36
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #72 on: April 12, 2018, 07:58 AM »
Attached it is, directly, without advertisements.
(Attachment Link)

Just to clarify, and I hope this won't but probably will get deleted.   
  • I apologize, if I offended or upset anyone with the content
  • I'm glad to see the pdf posted here publicly.
  • I am not afflicated financially with what was in that folder.  I have nothing to gain other then protection of my consumer rights when something doesn't live up to the claims or to protect myself when a defect is known and nothing seems to be done.
  • It was there for my own reference and keeping in case my Kapex does have issue in the future. Mine is still functioning along with a dozen+ other Festools I own.
  • I edited the page only to let people know I asked permission to post here and it was denied so no one would post it. 
   
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 08:29 AM by miclee15 »

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #73 on: April 12, 2018, 09:37 AM »
Attached it is, directly, without advertisements.
(Attachment Link)

Just to clarify, and I hope this won't but probably will get deleted.   
  • I apologize, if I offended or upset anyone with the content
  • I'm glad to see the pdf posted here publicly.
  • I am not afflicated financially with what was in that folder.  I have nothing to gain other then protection of my consumer rights when something doesn't live up to the claims or to protect myself when a defect is known and nothing seems to be done.
  • It was there for my own reference and keeping in case my Kapex does have issue in the future. Mine is still functioning along with a dozen+ other Festools I own.
  • I edited the page only to let people know I asked permission to post here and it was denied so no one would post it. 
   

Except for possibly a bit of confusion in the topic I don't see any reason to delete.

Gregor thanks for adding the pdf directly.

Seth

Online kevinculle

  • Posts: 198
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #74 on: April 12, 2018, 12:22 PM »
Readers should note that the instructions shown in this thread were developed solely by the writer, and without any input or approval from Festool. Anyone choosing to attempt the aforementioned repairs on their own should be aware that such an attempt will, in all likelihood, void any remaining warranty on their tool and could possibly lead to safety issues, along with other performance-related problems. Festool always recommends that repairs of this type be undertaken only by qualified technicians in a certified Festool repair facility.


This seems like a very odd disclaimer since any lucky Kapex owner who has warranty coverage still in effect would be highly motivated to have their Kapex fixed at Festool's time and expense, so it would seem that only those who have a dead Kapex that is out of warranty coverage would pursue this repair themselves.  Also the FTC ruled 2 days ago

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2018/04/ftc-staff-warns-companies-it-illegal-condition-warranty-coverage

that it is a violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act for a manufacturer to threaten to void a warranty contingent on requiring the use of specific parts or services unless the warrantor provides the parts or services free of charge.  I am not sure whether free of charge includes warranty related shipping costs but it would seem Festool USA may want to consult with its legal counsel before making such statements to its customers.

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 182
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #75 on: April 12, 2018, 01:59 PM »
@kevinculle - I don't want to detract from this particular discussion but do I want to thank you for posting the link to the FTC press release. In addition to your points, I found, in particular, the second bullet point to be rather informative - particularly how it may relate to Festool and the consumer's use of third-party products (like, for instance, fitting a Seneca adapter to the Domino XL). That said, I also found the third bullet point equally interesting. How often do we hear and/or read the exact opposite guidance (e.g. "don't break the seal or the warranty is voided")? The takeaway for me is that in the U.S.A. it is in contravention of the law for a company that has not otherwise received a waiver to deny a warranty claim based on a) a tool having been serviced outside the company's network, b) a tool having been fitted with unlicensed third-party parts or accessories and c) a factory seal having been torn. Very interesting indeed!     

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 470
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #76 on: April 12, 2018, 04:07 PM »

... it would seem that only those who have a dead Kapex that is out of warranty coverage would pursue this repair themselves.

I can speak for myself that I have never fixed any machines or tools (including household items like furnace or water softener, etc.) myself that are still under warranty. My Kapex's warranty just expired in past weeks and ALI's pdf will be my insurance policy for now.

Does Festool offer extended warranty? May be without admission of anything, Festool could offer extended warranty coverage for the Kapex to existing owners for a token price.

Offline TXFIVEO

  • Posts: 197
Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #77 on: April 12, 2018, 04:33 PM »
Going to start this reply by saying I’m a huge FESTOOL guy.  Have many of their tools.  But interesting how FESTOOL comments on voiding warranty but not on the obvious Kapex issue.  If it was addressed correctly (extended warranty/“recall”) they would actually make MORE $$$ because I would buy the  Kapex along with many others I’m sure. 

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7337
  • Remodeling Contractor
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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #78 on: April 13, 2018, 07:36 AM »
@kevinculle - I don't want to detract from this particular discussion but do I want to thank you for posting the link to the FTC press release. In addition to your points, I found, in particular, the second bullet point to be rather informative - particularly how it may relate to Festool and the consumer's use of third-party products (like, for instance, fitting a Seneca adapter to the Domino XL)......   

If I had to guess on the second bullet point about using third party accessories, I'd say that is probably a gray area.  If a third party accessory radically changes the scope of the tool's intended use then I'd guess there would be some leeway for the manufacture to void the warranty.   
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #79 on: April 13, 2018, 07:46 AM »
Does Festool offer extended warranty? May be without admission of anything, Festool could offer extended warranty coverage for the Kapex to existing owners for a token price.

I don't want to pay for an extended warranty.  I want to hold Festool responsible for living up to its obligation to provide its customers the value for high end products we are paying for.

Interestingly, there seems to be a five year warranty for the kapex (motor only??) in Canada.  Its unclear if that longer warranty is on a new Kapex or only on the repair.  I've not heard anyone mention if this is only in Canada or if this is the policy in the US as well.   
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Offline Cheese

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #80 on: April 13, 2018, 09:28 AM »
Interestingly, there seems to be a five year warranty for the kapex (motor only??) in Canada.  Its unclear if that longer warranty is on a new Kapex or only on the repair.  I've not heard anyone mention if this is only in Canada or if this is the policy in the US as well.   

Brice, here's the Festool Canada website. Interestingly enough, nowhere does it mention a 5 year warranty on the Kapex. Even if you bring up the Kapex section, it still only mentions a 36 month warranty.

Yet, I've also heard it mentioned on the FOG that there's a 5 year warranty on the Kapex armature in Canada.

https://www.festoolcanada.com

Also interesting, is the website claims a 48 hour turnaround for service.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #81 on: April 13, 2018, 09:44 AM »
Yes! 5 years for Cdn owners accordingly to a recent repair experience shared another member. I better make a reminder note on my saw/paperwork.

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #82 on: April 13, 2018, 09:45 AM »
Brice, here's the Festool Canada website. Interestingly enough, nowhere does it mention a 5 year warranty on the Kapex. Even if you bring up the Kapex section, it still only mentions a 36 month warranty.

Yet, I've also heard it mentioned on the FOG that there's a 5 year warranty on the Kapex armature in Canada.

https://www.festoolcanada.com

Also interesting, is the website claims a 48 hour turnaround for service.

Don't be fooled  [tongue]

Official Festool websites are all the same. Look at the service number. The service phone # is the same for both USA and Can  [eek]

I suspect that there is not a single Festool Canada employee and that Canadians are dealing directly with Festool USA period. I'm wondering if I order a part if I will pay for duties. Any one from Canada have any experience ordering Festool parts from Festool?

Mario
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 09:47 AM by Mario Turcot »
Mario

Offline Cheese

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #83 on: April 13, 2018, 10:15 AM »
Don't be fooled  [tongue]

Official Festool websites are all the same. Look at the service number. The service phone # is the same for both USA and Can  [eek]

I suspect that there is not a single Festool Canada employee and that Canadians are dealing directly with Festool USA period.

Well I did notice this on the Canadian website:

Festool Canada Inc.
400 N. Enterprise Blvd
Lebanon, IN 46052
USA
Telephone 1-888-337-8600

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #84 on: April 13, 2018, 10:29 AM »
Never ordered any parts but if I need to, I will do it through Lee Valley Tools where I bought all my Festool machines. May be they have a shipping arrangement that will take care of the import duties matter.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #85 on: April 13, 2018, 10:14 PM »
...I suspect that there is not a single Festool Canada employee and that Canadians are dealing directly with Festool USA period....

There is a service center in Alexandria, ON.
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Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #86 on: April 13, 2018, 11:20 PM »
There is a service center in Alexandria, ON.

Thanks Brice, good to know

I was curious where in Alexandria this is located and google map the service center address. Looks to me like a certified repair shop, sitting in a residential zone.

Alexandria

Mario
Mario

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #87 on: April 14, 2018, 01:00 PM »

I am surprised to see this thread not deleted, so that’s a good thing.


Yes, and @ALI Construction Thank you for taking the time to document the fix.
Tim

Offline Peter Durand

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #88 on: April 14, 2018, 07:26 PM »
...I suspect that there is not a single Festool Canada employee and that Canadians are dealing directly with Festool USA period....

There is a service center in Alexandria, ON.

Unfortunately I think that that is just a place for Canadians to send their tools that are then forwarded to the USA. (When there are enough to make a consolidated shipment?) When I sent my track saw during the recall I kept track and the message from the carrier was that it was left at the garage door. No one was there to receive during business hours.

Cheers,

Peter

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #89 on: April 14, 2018, 07:38 PM »
i am of the belief that there is at least one service person in Canada.  But frankly who the crap cares if your tools are serviced.

Sometimes the nit picky junk is frankly much.

Hope everyone is working safely and productively this weekend.

Peter

Offline Job and Knock

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #90 on: April 15, 2018, 05:31 AM »
Another thank you for posting this, Al. My own Kapex is fine, but It's good to have an insurance policy, although if the armature ever does burn-out on mine I may well also look at building a "Frankenkapex" with a more powerful brushless motor and the necessary control circuitry
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 04:47 PM by Job and Knock »
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Offline Peter Durand

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Re: Another dead Kapex.
« Reply #91 on: April 15, 2018, 11:30 AM »
i am of the belief that there is at least one service person in Canada.  But frankly who the crap cares if your tools are serviced.

Sometimes the nit picky junk is frankly much.

Hope everyone is working safely and productively this weekend.

Peter
[/i]


Well Peter. I guess I am the nitty picky junkie  who cares that that it took a long time for my saw to be forwarded to the US for service. As opposed to the more fortunate folks in the states.

Regards,