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Author Topic: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.  (Read 46857 times)

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Offline Tim Raleigh

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    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #180 on: November 08, 2017, 09:48 AM »
What is this based on?

User (ljraubner) on instagram.
The saw was 9yrs. old and bought used.

JNComplete was charged for his third repair back on 10/8.

All situations are different.
Tim

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Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 117
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #181 on: November 17, 2017, 05:28 PM »
The nearest thing you have is a DW 780, Bosch and Makita.  That’s a pretty huge gap.

What about the 12" Milwaukee with digital angle finder? It doesn't get a lot of press, but I heard it's an excellent saw and rivals Kapex in the dust collection department.
It is physically very large, extremely heavy and the dust extraction isn't a patch on the Kapex, We had two (both brand spanking new) on hire a few years back and whilst they have bags of power the weight issue (they are the only mitre saw I've ever used which absolutely needed 2 men to carry them across site) was something everybody was concerned about. As a point of comparison, at the time I owned a Makita LS1013 and was regularly also using an LS1214 and a deWalt DW718. None of those tools was anywhere near as back breakingly awkward to move about as the Milwaukee. Haven't tried th Bosch glider, though.
 
My own Kapex (110 volt) is 16 months+ old and still working away nicely. Easily the most accurate and easy to use SCMS I've ever used, but obviously the motor issues some people have do tend to lurk at the back of my mind sometimes. Would I buy another one if this one failed - probably (but that would be that)

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Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #182 on: November 17, 2017, 05:53 PM »
Sure , I've actually experienced that myself from FT for other tools.   

But I have not heard of any of that with Kapex.  And like I said earlier, two members with not far out of warranty Kapex (and previously repaired) didn't receive that consideration.

So, don't base your Kapex decision hoping they will single you out.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 11:21 AM by antss »

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 310
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #183 on: November 19, 2017, 12:59 AM »
The nearest thing you have is a DW 780, Bosch and Makita.  That’s a pretty huge gap.

What about the 12" Milwaukee with digital angle finder? It doesn't get a lot of press, but I heard it's an excellent saw and rivals Kapex in the dust collection department.
It is physically very large, extremely heavy and the dust extraction isn't a patch on the Kapex, We had two (both brand spanking new) on hire a few years back and whilst they have bags of power the weight issue (they are the only mitre saw I've ever used which absolutely needed 2 men to carry them across site) was something everybody was concerned about. As a point of comparison, at the time I owned a Makita LS1013 and was regularly also using an LS1214 and a deWalt DW718. None of those tools was anywhere near as back breakingly awkward to move about as the Milwaukee. Haven't tried th Bosch glider, though.
 
My own Kapex (110 volt) is 16 months+ old and still working away nicely. Easily the most accurate and easy to use SCMS I've ever used, but obviously the motor issues some people have do tend to lurk at the back of my mind sometimes. Would I buy another one if this one failed - probably (but that would be that)

I have a DW 782 (Second Cousin to DW 780) It’s a heavy Son of a _____!  It would be hard to call it mobile by any means at 58 pounds.  I have a rolling stand that makes it manageable.  The newer Dewalts are lighter with a trade off on some durability.  It lacks the bevel accuracy of the Kapex.  I have to use Woodpeckers and Incra accessories to improve the Mark.  It ‘s held up well and been used outdoors in the winter when it’s -5 F outside without fail.

I’d be nervous to use a $2K Kapex in the bitter cold.  They don’t look like they made to operate outside in the wintertime.
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Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3545
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #184 on: November 19, 2017, 07:16 AM »
So far I've had no problem operating my Kapex across several winters in my unheated garage shop.  Have you heard things to the contrary?


I’d be nervous to use a $2K Kapex in the bitter cold.  They don’t look like they made to operate outside in the wintertime.
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Online Peter Halle

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Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #185 on: November 19, 2017, 07:51 AM »
Doesn't look like they made it work outside in the wintertime?  Don't tell David:



Peter

Offline Cheese

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Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #186 on: November 19, 2017, 08:17 AM »
Thanks for the post Peter...cool video, haven't seen that one.

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #187 on: November 19, 2017, 08:54 AM »
There is a thread here with that video.  In the thread you can read that David was not compensated for the video, and by looking at his post you can see that he DOES live and work in a cold climate.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/david-askew-integrity-construction-%27i-can%27t-afford-to-buy-bad-tools%27/

Peter

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 457
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #188 on: November 19, 2017, 10:03 AM »
Wow! He is brave...using his Kapex outdoors in such condition.

Mine is used outdoors (on my driveway) occasionally but only if it is summer, sunny and dry!

Cold climate...in the winter, my shop has an average temperature of 10 to 12C (when the heater is on) and much lower when the garage door is opened for photo-shooting purposes. On cold days (-15C and below outside), I hibernate and don't woodwork! I do all my finishing in the shop and then move the finished article indoors right away...repeat the same for every coat till it is done.

Life is much easier in the summer.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 10:12 AM by ChuckM »

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 310
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #189 on: November 19, 2017, 06:54 PM »
Wow! He is brave...using his Kapex outdoors in such condition.

Mine is used outdoors (on my driveway) occasionally but only if it is summer, sunny and dry!

Cold climate...in the winter, my shop has an average temperature of 10 to 12C (when the heater is on) and much lower when the garage door is opened for photo-shooting purposes. On cold days (-15C and below outside), I hibernate and don't woodwork! I do all my finishing in the shop and then move the finished article indoors right away...repeat the same for every coat till it is done.

Life is much easier in the summer.

I wouldn’t want to use any $2k tool that wasn’t explicitly designed to operate outdoors.   
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Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 423
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #190 on: November 19, 2017, 07:51 PM »
I don’t know that the Kapex is strictly a climate controlled use tool, but I do know that I do not wish to subject mine to the rigors of day in and day out general use. I bought mine strictly for fine finishing. For heavier applications, I resort to my other SCMS.

I don’t do it this way because I want to baby the Kapex, but because I want the integrity of the Kapex not to be compromised by heavy use.  If I could justify owning more than one Kapex, then I may not proceed this way.  A friend of mine owns a cabinet shop and they buy Kapex for site work.  Every year they buy a new one and the older ones get retired down the chain based on condition and accuracy.
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline Cheese

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Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #191 on: November 20, 2017, 12:14 AM »
A friend of mine owns a cabinet shop and they buy Kapex for site work.  Every year they buy a new one and the older ones get retired down the chain based on condition and accuracy.

FWIW...this is the same method that digital calipers exchange hands from the aeronautical industry. Once you hit that .001”-.0015” threshold, they’re put down the road. Most trades don’t need that type of precision or repeatability, so there’s a huge market for these gently used calipers.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 12:21 AM by Cheese »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4431
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #192 on: November 20, 2017, 12:25 AM »
I wouldn’t want to use any $2k tool that wasn’t explicitly designed to operate outdoors.

If that’s the case, you’ll be digging the footings for your new home/garage by hand.  [jawdrop]

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1306
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #193 on: November 20, 2017, 01:13 AM »
I’d be nervous to use a $2K Kapex in the bitter cold.  They don’t look like they made to operate outside in the wintertime.
It would probably manage better than others. In freezing temperature one of the most vulnerable parts is drive belt. Unlike almost any other SCMS, Kapex 120 does not have one, it's gear driven.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 192
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #194 on: November 20, 2017, 07:51 AM »
The noteworthy risk issue with Kapex seems to be related to the adequacy of armature cooling under the higher currents seen with 120V operation.  Convective heat transfer is directly proportional to the temperature difference between the armature windings and the air temperature so Kapex armature cooling would benefit greatly from a 50F (28C) or so drop in air temperature.  I have used mine outside for several days in temperatures about freezing with no ill effects.

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 117
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #195 on: November 22, 2017, 07:04 AM »
I don’t know that the Kapex is strictly a climate controlled use tool, but I do know that I do not wish to subject mine to the rigors of day in and day out general use. I bought mine strictly for fine finishing. For heavier applications, I resort to my other SCMS.

I don’t do it this way because I want to baby the Kapex, but because I want the integrity of the Kapex not to be compromised by heavy use.
Precisely why I have a smaller deWalt SCMS for the more general sort of work where the super accuracy of the Kapex would just not be necessary

In freezing temperature one of the most vulnerable parts is drive belt. Unlike almost any other SCMS, Kapex 120 does not have one, it's gear driven.
The older Makitas (LS1013, LS1213/14, etc) also had a gear drive as do the current LS1016 and LS1018 models. But the bevel scales on them all are fairly illegible
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 01:02 PM by Job and Knock »
Simplicity is the embodiment of purity and unity
- Shaker Maxims

Offline SoonerFan

  • Posts: 399
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #196 on: November 22, 2017, 09:24 PM »
I have a Kapex and so far it is trouble free (fingers crossed).  I read this entire thread tonight hoping (but not expecting) for an update from a Festool.  Alas, seems there are still a fair number of issues (who knows how many or what percentage of units have an issue).  No response from Festool as I assumed.

For now I will go back to using my saw, hoping it’s keeps working and then check back on some of these Kapex threads in a few months.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 310
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #197 on: November 22, 2017, 09:49 PM »
I have a Kapex and so far it is trouble free (fingers crossed).  I read this entire thread tonight hoping (but not expecting) for an update from a Festool.  Alas, seems there are still a fair number of issues (who knows how many or what percentage of units have an issue).  No response from Festool as I assumed.

For now I will go back to using my saw, hoping it’s keeps working and then check back on some of these Kapex threads in a few months.



Just don’t play this track while you’re working in your shop.  It’s just bad luck.
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Offline SoonerFan

  • Posts: 399
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #198 on: November 23, 2017, 08:36 AM »

Just don’t play this track while you’re working in your shop.  It’s just bad luck.

I like Queen but don’t like bad karma so will avoid that particular track  [smile]

Offline 1toolshort

  • Posts: 61
    • Big Bob's Carpentry
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #199 on: November 23, 2017, 11:01 AM »
I have been watching the Kapex scenario play out for years.  I turned my buddy onto Festool, and he's bought everything over the last few years, (not everything, but almost!!) including the Kapex.  I do more finish carpentry work than he does, but I also do decks, and basement build outs.  I found for the price of the Kapex, I bought a DWS 703, Bosch sliding 10", and a Bosch sliding 8 1/2".  I've used the 10" Bosch for almost 20 years in the shop.  The DeWalt and smaller sliding saw go out on the job.  Everything is covered that I need.  I don't want to deal with 12" runout.  That configuration covers it all.
Couldn't be happier with the Festool name tools I own.  Wouldn't do anything different.  Kinda glad I never jumped on the Kapex bandwagon.
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Offline shaneken50

  • Posts: 1
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #200 on: November 24, 2017, 01:27 PM »
We build staircases and are hauling the Kapex in and out of the truck all of the time. What I like about it is it's lite and stays true to accuracy. The best saw to date for holding up for being moved around a lot. Yes it is worth the money for what we use it for and Yes the motor is a major flaw. It has been back to the repair shop four times in three years all for the motor. One time the motor started started to smoke, two times no power to cut though a 1x, one time it came back even with lack of power after a few cuts and died. They gave me a new saw after that and  that one went back for motor problems.
  I bought through a dealership, they have been great about sending it back and were the ones that said give him a new saw. The Road Show came to town and I told them about the problem, the guy standing next to me said he had the same problem. The Road Shoe rep said their working on it, to what degree is anyone's guess. We love the saw but it has a MAJOR motor problem.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 527
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #201 on: December 22, 2017, 07:23 PM »
Hmmm, if the "armature" keeps blowing up on these saws; working out in the sub zero arctic winter would probably be
the best thing for it.   [big grin]




Online Peter Halle

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Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #202 on: December 22, 2017, 07:44 PM »
With the warmer winters and summers I've had since 2010 mine is still cooking (running correctly) right along.

Peter

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 527
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #203 on: December 23, 2017, 03:26 AM »
My knees are what are getting warmer. Phantom soreness flashbacks. :D
I finally watched the video and noticed all of the TREX.
It was probably a totally different product then (back when it would get little dots everywhere from mold), but anyway, memories of carrying 20 feet of springy fun-times, driving me into the ground with each footstep.    [scared]








Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 71
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #204 on: January 01, 2018, 03:37 PM »
I wanted to (almost did) buy the Kapex and it’s assorted accessories.
Having read all of the FOGer reviews about problems -
About Kapex tool failures -
And ongoing issues with Festool Service...
Led me to keep using my faithfull/excellent-
BOSCH 5412 12” Compound Miter saw.

After having major issues with a purchase -
Festool XL700 Domino (couldn’t be aligned)...
It’ll be a hot January day in Colorado...
Before I buy another Festool product.
Things have to change... Dramatically.
Regrettably,
Joe
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | ONEIDA DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline houtslager

  • Posts: 1
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #205 on: January 18, 2018, 06:29 PM »
WOW , looks like my kapex is / was not the only lemon . I bought my first kapex a month or 2 after being released in the Netherlands. What grabbed my Euro's was the stated accuracy and of course the dust collection.
Well I needed to make over 400 dubbel verstek { double mitre ??? } joints in some thin 4mm red pine, only 4 inches in length so not to big a cut.
After the first 20, it was no longer cutting accurately    [eek]
Took it directly back to TTS in Mijdrecht , explained the problem again  ??? to their tech guy. After 2 hours of trying to "tune "the tool and getting the lasers to work correctly -
He and I gave , only to be told be said techie - "It's a Monday morning Machine "  [eek] [mad]
SO, was sent a new machine direct from Germany. Despite being told it was all ok , it never met the sales talk, never cutting the double angles 100% accurately, since then , now coming up to 6 years iirc , it has had 2 services , 1 in the UK and 1 in France. It's now having a 4th service as on the 3rd , here in the Netherlands, they did not dail the lasers in properly, and after the first cut after return the lower internal dust shroud broke, making the toop unusable  [mad] [mad]

My advice - DON"T BUY A KAPEX, next mitre saw purchase will be the BOSCH 12"one or DeWalt as these have larger capacity, just as accurate and 1/3rd cheaper.

Just my 2 cents worth

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #206 on: January 18, 2018, 06:41 PM »
WOW , looks like my kapex is / was not the only lemon . I bought my first kapex a month or 2 after being released in the Netherlands. What grabbed my Euro's was the stated accuracy and of course the dust collection.
Well I needed to make over 400 dubbel verstek { double mitre ??? } joints in some thin 4mm red pine, only 4 inches in length so not to big a cut.
After the first 20, it was no longer cutting accurately    [eek]
Took it directly back to TTS in Mijdrecht , explained the problem again  ??? to their tech guy. After 2 hours of trying to "tune "the tool and getting the lasers to work correctly -
He and I gave , only to be told be said techie - "It's a Monday morning Machine "  [eek] [mad]
SO, was sent a new machine direct from Germany. Despite being told it was all ok , it never met the sales talk, never cutting the double angles 100% accurately, since then , now coming up to 6 years iirc , it has had 2 services , 1 in the UK and 1 in France. It's now having a 4th service as on the 3rd , here in the Netherlands, they did not dail the lasers in properly, and after the first cut after return the lower internal dust shroud broke, making the toop unusable  [mad] [mad]

My advice - DON"T BUY A KAPEX, next mitre saw purchase will be the BOSCH 12"one or DeWalt as these have larger capacity, just as accurate and 1/3rd cheaper.

Just my 2 cents worth

Sorry to hear about your dis satisfaction.  Admirable that you continued to use the saw for that length of time.  Most people would have given up.  If you are indeed looking at the 12" Bosch I would love to hear your opinions after you get it and use it for a month or two.

Peter

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 457
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #207 on: January 18, 2018, 07:24 PM »
Admirable that you continued to use the saw for that length of time. 

Peter

6yrs? That admirable point is an understatement. I would have given up in 6 months or so in such circumstances as described by the OP.

Offline M williams

  • Posts: 8
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #208 on: January 24, 2018, 04:25 PM »
Ohh dear..it’s gone again!!. Kapex motor burnout no 2 in under two years. Getting really fed up with this saw now :(

Offline andyraines

  • Posts: 1
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #209 on: January 30, 2018, 01:00 PM »
I am currently raging!! 😡
I have owned a Dewalt DW718 for over 10 years and it’s never missed a beat, it has slight blade wobble and I’ve replaced the motor bearings and bushes once. I decided to upgrade to the Kapex KS120 after seeing so many rave about them. When it arrived I must admit I fell in love straight away. Such an accurate saw and the dust extraction is second to none.
I’ve been using it lightly for 3 weeks now and today it decided not to work, it tries but the motor seems  jammed and it stinks?
I cannot believe I never read any of these threads on FOG before buying it, I feel so let down. The price for the saw is so expensive but I was willing to make the investment, I could have bought 3 new Dewalys for the same price as a Kapex with the UG Stand.