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Author Topic: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.  (Read 52344 times)

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Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3659
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #210 on: January 30, 2018, 03:05 PM »
I think you have 30 days from the date of purchase to take it back.
Wayne H. Tinker

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Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 981
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #211 on: January 30, 2018, 04:18 PM »
I’ve been using it lightly for 3 weeks now and today
You're within the '30 days money back no questions asked', so you can simply return it for a full refund.

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #212 on: January 30, 2018, 04:22 PM »
Unfortunately I believe the poster is in a country where the return period is 15 days.

Peter

Offline IndyMike

  • Posts: 112
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #213 on: August 28, 2018, 10:08 AM »
I just picked up the TS 55 and the CT 36 and was looking at getting the Kapex to replace my Kobalt miter whose dust collection is atrocious...  I was directed to this thread and after reading this and doing a bit more research on my own - Festool has lost a $1,400+ sale here.

It seems to me that it really shouldn't be that hard for Festool to identify what is going wrong with these saws and to update a part/make a change to resolve it.

I do understand nothing lasts forever - and there will be outliers that fail much sooner, and that's what a warranty is for.  That said - there is no way I would spend $1,400+ for a saw that may or may not last more than a couple of years.
Mike

Offline brentasmith

  • Posts: 6
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #214 on: September 05, 2018, 10:27 PM »
Your usage puts you in an entirely different category than the ones experiencing failures... in other words your opinion isn't relevant what so ever


I bought my Kapex soon after they went on sale in the US. I had to get the miter adjuster fix that came out soon after the introduction.

My use ranges from very light to light by the standards of most people on this forum. I have had no issues with the saw like are being described here.

In defense of Festool, the percentage of motor failures appears to be very low. For example, if the failure rate is less than 1 per 1000, then it can be very difficult to pinpoint the cause.

After such a long time, they are now in a difficult position in a marketing and legal terms.

For marketing, it is tricky to make things right when doing so admits you have failures you do not understand. Hardly a great position for a premium tool company.

From a legal point of view, making it right for the customer could be viewed as admission of a problem that has been long known and ignored. That might put them in a position of being accused of knowingly selling defective tools. That would not be tolerated by any corporate legal team.

Festool's best hope is to discover a cause that can be recognized as unknowable in the general sense. If they could claim that, then the above issues can be avoided and customers can be dealt with in a fair manner.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 224
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #215 on: September 06, 2018, 07:52 AM »
Festool has had plenty of time to evaluate the Kapex motor failures.  Even if they are only occuring at 1,000 ppm (1 per thousand) there has been a steady drumbeat here of consistent failure posts for what, at least two years.  Imagine the failure resulted in injury to the operator rather than just a dead saw...I suspect there would have been both a fix and a retrofit kit for all saws in the field some time ago.  This failure presents the kind of risk to Festool's and the Kapex's reputation that Festool should take a belt and suspenders approach and substantially upgrade all of the parts and subsystems in the Kapex that are in the failure path.  I suspect instead they are continuing to build a failure prone tool while they figure out the minimum cost and disruption to their tooling and process revision that is likely to work.  Meanwhile every week or so another Kapex owner sees the smoke let out of his pride and joy SCMS...pity!

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #216 on: September 06, 2018, 09:15 AM »
Your usage puts you in an entirely different category than the ones experiencing failures... in other words your opinion isn't relevant what so ever


I bought my Kapex soon after they went on sale in the US. I had to get the miter adjuster fix that came out soon after the introduction.

My use ranges from very light to light by the standards of most people on this forum. I have had no issues with the saw like are being described here.

In defense of Festool, the percentage of motor failures appears to be very low. For example, if the failure rate is less than 1 per 1000, then it can be very difficult to pinpoint the cause.

After such a long time, they are now in a difficult position in a marketing and legal terms.

For marketing, it is tricky to make things right when doing so admits you have failures you do not understand. Hardly a great position for a premium tool company.

From a legal point of view, making it right for the customer could be viewed as admission of a problem that has been long known and ignored. That might put them in a position of being accused of knowingly selling defective tools. That would not be tolerated by any corporate legal team.

Festool's best hope is to discover a cause that can be recognized as unknowable in the general sense. If they could claim that, then the above issues can be avoided and customers can be dealt with in a fair manner.



Of course it is.  Especially since the failures cover a wide range of users and the terminology that people use  such as "light", "everyday", "heavy", "moderate", etc are all relative. And even if saws that get "light" usage don't fail, that is still useful info.

Seth

Offline deepcreek

  • Posts: 728
    • TimberFire Studio
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #217 on: September 06, 2018, 10:06 AM »
I must admit that the repeated threads on Kapex motor failure have affected me.

I've had my Kapex going on ten years and originally used it to trim out a house I built for my Mom.  It was Craftsman style with custom molding and block paneling so lots of work.

Now my Kapex lives a life of luxury in a shop environment for a few cuts here and there.  Definitely not every day and often not even weekly.

Yesterday, I had to make a couple hundred cuts for a large project.

With each start of the motor, I found myself worrying if this would be the cut where it died.

I know it's irrational but the perception is there.

Managing perception is as important as managing reality.

In my opinion, Festool's silence on the matter has hurt its reputation.
Joe Adams
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

http://www.facebook.com/timberfire

Online tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5710
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #218 on: September 06, 2018, 10:13 AM »
One of mine let out the magic smoke yesterday (the one that's about 10 years old)--don't have time right now to replace the armature--went out and bought another one.

The saw(s) have made money from the first day I've owned them.

It's not the first brand miter saw I've had cook an armature, won't be the last.

Tom

Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 432
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #219 on: September 06, 2018, 10:55 AM »
"Your usage puts you in an entirely different category than the ones experiencing failures... in other words your opinion isn't relevant what so ever."

My opinions are based on the experiences reported in this thread and on senior management behavior I witnessed working in two large companies. They are not based on my personal experience with the Kapex.

My opinions were about the challenges Festool is facing in dealing with this issue. Which of the challenges I mentioned relate to my level of saw usage?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4946
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #220 on: September 06, 2018, 11:59 AM »

With each start of the motor, I found myself worrying if this would be the cut where it died.

I know it's irrational but the perception is there.


I certainly share your angst...everytime I pull the trigger it makes me think about these Kapex threads. Is today the day?

The only other piece of equipment I've owned that's caused me the same amount of trepidation when I used it was a 1958 Chevy Impala with a 348.  [big grin]  Fire it up...cross your fingers...and hope you make it home.  But that was 50 years ago and it was kind of accepted back then, this is now 2018, expectation levels have changed over the last 50 years.   [dead horse]

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 617
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #221 on: September 06, 2018, 12:10 PM »
"Your usage puts you in an entirely different category than the ones experiencing failures... in other words your opinion isn't relevant what so ever."

My opinions are based on the experiences reported in this thread and on senior management behavior I witnessed working in two large companies. They are not based on my personal experience with the Kapex.


Useful and relevant opinions are not just limited to experience. People can offer helpful ideas or even advice based on observations and analysis, drawing on other experiences and assessments of theirs.

A case in point is Peter Drucker whom I admire for his insightful views and writings on organizations. He offered advice to governments, businesses, and non-profit entities. He had never been a CEO, a marketer, etc., but this Austrian thinker predicted, among other things, privatization and decentralization; the rise of Japan to economic world power; the decisive role of marketing (Facebook, Google. etc. were not even born!); and lifelong learning (the recent oil recession has caused many to take a new career path as their old jobs never came back).

I may never have used an XL (I have), but don't discount my opinion on it (if I have any), as I have had solid field experience with the DF500. Don't even discount the opinions of others who have only used a biscuit joiner but not a Domino joiner, because we shall look at the opinions themselves to decide what they are worth. Many tablesaw users, for example, are unsafe users, but I would not listen to them for their opinions on how to work safely in a shop, no matter how "heavily" their saws are used.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 11:17 AM by ChuckM »

Offline IndyMike

  • Posts: 112
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #222 on: September 07, 2018, 08:36 PM »
So is it just the armature that needs replaced when they let out the magic smoke?  Is it an expensive replacement?  Can it be done by the end user?
Mike

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #223 on: September 07, 2018, 11:33 PM »
So is it just the armature that needs replaced when they let out the magic smoke?  Is it an expensive replacement?  Can it be done by the end user?

Armature mainly but there could be other parts.

Yes.

That really depends on the end user.  But for three years it's on Festool.

Seth

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4946
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #224 on: September 08, 2018, 11:09 AM »
So is it just the armature that needs replaced when they let out the magic smoke?  Is it an expensive replacement?  Can it be done by the end user?

See reply 72 in this thread.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/another-dead-kapex-55656/

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 377
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #225 on: September 09, 2018, 10:29 AM »
Is the Kapex 60 Brushless?
If it is I iimagine I'll wait till Festool make a cordless version of that and keep using my old but reliable Makita 110 volt chopsaw in the meantime. Thats been working fine since 2003 or so.
Can't see me buying the 120 anyway as its a big numb thing to move about on a daily basis and I don't need the extra capacity now that I have a HKC.
In the UK we have also kind of got out of the massive crown moulding fashion so its very rare indeed that I need the capacity in both directions the 120 has.
If I had a woodwork shop I might think otherwise but I'm out o  site every working day and for me the big ones size outweighs its usefullness. The 60 however is appealing, as long as its reliable and ideally cordless.
Possibly with a cord that plugs into the battery housing like the new DeWalt flexvolt tools.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4946
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #226 on: September 09, 2018, 11:10 AM »
Is the Kapex 60 Brushless?

I don't believe it is.

Offline IndyMike

  • Posts: 112
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #227 on: September 09, 2018, 01:02 PM »
Kapex is not brushless.
Mike