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Author Topic: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.  (Read 72972 times)

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Offline glass1

  • Posts: 491
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #300 on: January 31, 2019, 07:01 PM »
Cheese and Peter :

This is why I want a ks 60. I do not like any of the other small saws. The ks 60 is light and goes 60 both ways and has good dust collection. Here is my go to setup for serious work, a Makita ls1219l on a sawhelper. I have 4 stops and multiple wings. I love it for big jobs. I like a 12” saw for vertical cut. But when I need to move around or have small quick jobs I would like something smaller, ks 60. The Milwaukee 10” battery saw has some appeal but I found the quality low and the non existent dust collection a no go.

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Offline Lettusbee

  • Posts: 65
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #301 on: January 31, 2019, 07:18 PM »
How did you attach the saw helper to the makita? 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 405
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #302 on: January 31, 2019, 09:25 PM »
But the CT extractors or sanders all have variable speed controls, and why just the Kapex, if it is really is the culprit?

Ya, as far as variable speed tools go, the Kapex is 1600 W, the TS 75 is 1600 W and the OF 2200 is 2200 W.

Haven't heard of many armature issues with the TS or OF tools.  [cool]

This could just be getting further into their problem. Lets say it does link back to the speed control for a moment, they very well designed it using the same design, but a few things change since they didn't just repackage guts directly.  So you are the engineer, you have effectively copied the design that has worked in your other products, made adjustments where needed for that specific tool packaging/layout/etc.  Works great in lab, work great in testing, goes thru all the quality testing and is moved into production and then you start getting dead ones back.  You will be baffled, and if you have used the same design in other tools and it worked, it's going to be that much more frustrating.  Something is now different, but you just can't figure it out. 

Again if I the were changing PNs over time, or new models never have the issue, I'd say they figured it out. If nothing has changed it probably means they having figured it out, and if this has been going on this long there is probably many a people in the company who have given it everything trying to solve this and failed.  This is where you get less angry at them and feel more sorry for them if they have been yelled at in meetings for 10 year or had their job threatened etc, because they can't figure it out.   If festool knows the answer has a fix and simply didn't want to do it, especially if it's cheap and easy that is a major bad on them.  But if they haven't been able to solve it, or it's simply something they can't fix without bringing out a new saw, then there just isn't much you can expect them to do.  Pulling the saw from the market could be an option, and then people would massively complain about not being able to buy it anymore.

There is basically no paths that don't cause other problems for Festool on this, so they very well have just chosen to let it all run it's course.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 405
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #303 on: January 31, 2019, 09:28 PM »
For sure if the new Kapex has the same issues, their issues will be large.  But of course they might just discontinue the 110V model if that happens.

Well if that’s the case, they’ll also have to discontinue the 230/240 volt model that they’ve also had issues with.

How many have failed and is it known to be the same issue.  Some kapex's are going to die one way or the other without a real design flaw.  I have assume 240V deaths were just statistical failures, not anything related to the 110V model issue.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 405
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #304 on: January 31, 2019, 09:47 PM »

Car companies do leave and or never enter the US market because they don't want to re-design certify for the US market.

Yes indeed, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Subaru, Hyundai, Kia, et al have failed miserably at adapting their products to the US market.  Festool has been selling the Kapex here in the US for over 10 years.  For at least 3 years we have a growing drumbeat of armature failures and Festool continues to sell the same saw and sees the same failures and the silence is deafening.  Fanboys providing a smokescreen for Festool just encourages their head-in-the-sand approach.

I'm not sure what your saying here,  Car companies do fail to adapt to the US market, and leave (the french companies, various smaller Japanese and Korean companies, etc).  They bring models that tank in the US because they didn't understand the market.  They bring models that burn them for years or cause them to go back to the drawing board.  They also keep selling massively flawed models (rust being a major one that continues to baffle non-US makers).  Many of course never even try, thus why the US doesn't have all the brands the rest of the world sees.  The brands you list all have had periods, especially when they first came to the US where they just didn't get the market and made a lot of failures.

1 tool having an issue is not a whole company having an issue.  Every company has a lemon from time to time.

I'm not sure if you are referring to me as being a fanboy, far from it as I have plenty of issues with what Festool has done in the US.  Not grabbing a pitchfork and torch going after a company over something is not being a fanboy.  Like often when it comes to companies and product it's easy to throw stones but with rolls reversed, you wouldn't have a good answer either.   Become president of Festool tomorrow, call a meeting to solve the Kapax 110V issue, your engineers tell you "we don't know why the fail" or "we figured it out, the fix cost 850USD per saw" or some similar response, what would you do?  This is where reality kicks in.  Folks say things like armature failure like it's so easy as a bad armature.  I can almost guarantee it's not that simple, if it was, they would have fixed it.

Folks here in engineering or product developement know that when stuff fails, having people think you can "just fix it" "have an answer by 4pm" "push the change out in 2 weeks" and so forth is not how it works.  People yelling helps nothing, and thinking you will always be able to solve it is not realistic. Add cost constraints  or Public relations angles to things to the mix and nothing is so easy.  It sucks when stuff you work on fails, it sucks even more when you just can't figure out why it fails.

We do not know the problem with the Kapex, we do not know if Festool does or does not understand the problem.  Going angry mob on them without knowing some solid parts of the situation that only folks internal to festool would know is not the answer.

Lack of things changing is the good sign that it isn't something easy or cheap.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 432
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #305 on: February 01, 2019, 12:04 AM »
Of course their is plenty of global market for 110V tools,  (UK jobsites, US, Canada, Japan, various Caribbean and south American countries, North Korea) so it's not as specialized as some might think.

Especially North Korea has a huge market  [tongue]

Offline Jaybolishes

  • Posts: 393
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #306 on: February 01, 2019, 12:05 AM »
I’m not  sure what you are saying here either. Sounds like you want people who have multiple motor failures to just say oh well,  lemons happen, lody da.  You  are making a ton of assumptions in that long response. The only point that matters is the armatures are failing and that’s what is important. Keeping pressure on this issue is what’s important. Not to try to stab in the dark as to what festool may or may be doing.  A direct response from Festool should be demanded at this  point. What the heck is going on? This is the biggest lack of a company standing behind their product I can think of.  Instead of backing their product which is ridiculously priced and offering an explanation, they hide and act like its a figment of users imaginations in their silence. If you’re not concerned about the issue then that is fine and dandy but there are a lot of customers who are. This whole situation is an utter embarrassment. If I produce product with my own company and a client has an issue, I don’t hide and hope they go away. This is precisely what’s happening here.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 12:17 AM by Jaybolishes »

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 158
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #307 on: February 01, 2019, 09:33 AM »
I continue to read this elongating thread with interest -
Vaguely remembering a similar circumstance happening a long time ago:
Ford’s Edsel (named it after one of the Ford sons).

The Edsel had some great innovations for its time such as a rolling dome speedometer. And its Teletouch transmission shifting system in the center of the steering wheel worked well at first.
Other design innovations kept pace with the cutting-edge accessories and trim features growing in popularity in the mid-50s. These Included ergonomically designed controls for the driver and self-adjusting brakes.

But... The car was plagued with shoddy workmanship. Many of the vehicles that showed up at the dealer showroom had notes attached to the steering wheel listing the parts not installed. A myriad of other problems continued to be ignored by Ford.
The car just never lived up to the hype.
And... People stopped buying ‘em - Buying Chevys, instead.
Keep on just waiting and watching these problems, Festool.
Old business saying: “Ignore your customers. They'll go away.”

« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 09:38 AM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 743
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #308 on: February 01, 2019, 09:57 AM »
Old business saying: “Ignore your customers. They'll go away.”

A little extreme in this case. I don't see anyone leaving Festool for a different brand over one tool. There are lots of alternatives for mitre saws, some good and some not so much. How about whoever sets up the polls on the site create one for Kapex owners so we can get an idea of the failure rate among members of the FOG. It is most likely a small subset of all Kapex owners, but might be interesting to see.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5610
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #309 on: February 01, 2019, 10:37 AM »
Exactly! Couldn't the same "protection" that is available to the TSs & routers be built into the Kapex?

Here's some interesting conjecture from RicK Christopherson that starts on Reply #7.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/kapex-is-dead-!!!/

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 158
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #310 on: February 01, 2019, 10:37 AM »
JimH2:
You may be right. But... I wonder...
How many faithful current Festool buyer/owners of a variety of their products -
Read this long, ongoing lament about Kapex problems/failures -
And would REALLY like to buy one... But, just won’t take the risk.
I’m one of them.

These Kapex problems/failures -
May, or may not be, a small number of all the Kapex sold.
But, in the business of marketing - And ultimately, the selling products -
PERCEPTION IS (BECOMES) REALITY.
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 743
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #311 on: February 01, 2019, 12:10 PM »
JimH2:
You may be right. But... I wonder...
How many faithful current Festool buyer/owners of a variety of their products -
Read this long, ongoing lament about Kapex problems/failures -
And would REALLY like to buy one... But, just won’t take the risk.
I’m one of them.

These Kapex problems/failures -
May, or may not be, a small number of all the Kapex sold.
But, in the business of marketing - And ultimately, the selling products -
PERCEPTION IS (BECOMES) REALITY.

Mine bit the dust two weeks ago and I ordered the parts to repair it. I have a Dewalt SCMS that I use when I don't need absolute precision. It is holding me over until I get mine repaired (parts arrive today). The Kapex is the only tool I have ever seen anyone complain about. I have been using Festool since the early 2000's, slowly replacing other brand tools as they reached EOL or where the functionality of the Festool equivalent exceeded the current tool. I'm not jaded as I have quite a few Mafell, Dewalt and Bosch tools.

I've never been disappointed with any of them and while I am disappointed the Kapex failing, I have had it since it's release, and I knew statistically the end was coming. The only other failures I have had is the outlet on my CT22 and I had an issue with my OF1010 being stiff. Went through the troubleshooting with service and ended up just buying a new base and shaft. Fixed the issue. I don't ever remember dropping, but do use it a lot.

I do agree too many are reported as failing on FOG compared to other tools, but other than that I don't notice any significant failure. At least those posted here.

If I did not already own one I definitely would not take the leap and buy one and I certainly won't replace this one (or repair) if it fails again. I am always surprised how quick these are snapped up as refurbs knowing the history and propensity to fail. You are right to sit it out until it is resolved.

Just curious what is your SCMS of choice?

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 158
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #312 on: February 01, 2019, 03:51 PM »
JimH2:
My SCMS: Bosch 5412L Sliding Compound Miter Saw -
It’s mounted on a Bosch TracRac T3B Portable Miter Saw Stand.
It’s hooked up to an all metal Dust Deputy (with a metal drum) -
And my faithful Festool CT33 Dust Extractor.
Swapped out the Bosch OEM blade (wasn’t a bad blade) -
And replaced it with a Forrest Chopmaster blade (a great blade).

10+ years old -
This saw/setup cuts everything - Thick or thin - Hard woods or soft -
Absolutely true to the degrees set... Like going through butter.
I check it regularly, but rarely ever have to adjust anything.

Once in a while, I wish I could find a reason to “upgrade” to something newer.
But, that saw won’t “die”. It just keeps on cuttin’.

Full Disclosure:
I’m a Hobbyist, who uses my tools often, and in my shop.
So, the caveat here, is they don’t have to take the handling of regular -
Transporting - Setup/Tear down - And the heavy use of the Professionals.

FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 491
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #313 on: February 01, 2019, 05:11 PM »
Lettusbee. Bolts right into the extension wing holes.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 405
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #314 on: February 01, 2019, 10:16 PM »
I’m not  sure what you are saying here either. Sounds like you want people who have multiple motor failures to just say oh well,  lemons happen, lody da.  You  are making a ton of assumptions in that long response. The only point that matters is the armatures are failing and that’s what is important. Keeping pressure on this issue is what’s important. Not to try to stab in the dark as to what festool may or may be doing.  A direct response from Festool should be demanded at this  point. What the heck is going on? This is the biggest lack of a company standing behind their product I can think of.  Instead of backing their product which is ridiculously priced and offering an explanation, they hide and act like its a figment of users imaginations in their silence. If you’re not concerned about the issue then that is fine and dandy but there are a lot of customers who are. This whole situation is an utter embarrassment. If I produce product with my own company and a client has an issue, I don’t hide and hope they go away. This is precisely what’s happening here.

What you are expecting is not realistic or how companies work.  No one wants a product they buy fail, and no company wants a product they sell fail.  There are warranties, Festool fixes them.  As can't be stressed enough no one here knows the scope of the problem, or if there truly is one. I think it's safe to say the 110V Kapex have an issue, how wide spread, common, etc it is, is completely unknown.  If I owned a Kapex and it died, I wouldn't be happy.  But I wouldn't automatically assume there is a massive problem, design flaws, conspiracies to hide the truth, or expect the company that made it bend over backwards to answer me.  The idea that Festool owes and explanation is off base. This would assume there is in fact a known problem. It opens them up to all forms of consequences by making a statement. This is why lawyers make sure to give direction not to talk, as it can only make things worse. It gives fuel for class action lawsuits and so forth.  Also what do you expect them to say?  They would have to have something to say, and they very well don't.  If it's under warranty they fix it, if it's past warranty, it's past warranty. I assume festool fixes out of warranty stuff for a cost, its up to someone to decide if they want to or not.

Festool makes a lot of tools, they don't generally fail. Issues of one tool is not make or break. As folks on Kapex threads have comment before, if their saw dies they will go buy another, and just factor is as part of business. People know they might fail, everyone wishes the chance was there, folks want to see a knew one and hope there won't be the issue. We all accept when we buy something that it's unlikely to last forever. We accept that warranties expire and at some point it could die and you need to buy something else.  Most folks don't buy stuff that the loss/destruction of said thing is a catastrophic problem.

Do you think festool isn't under pressure?  Warranty returns cost money, lost sales from people being to wary of buying one hurt them.  No one ignores the issue or says it doesn't matter, but that is no where near demanding something out of Festool.  If this is the biggest example of a company not responding to something you really haven't looked far.  Companies almost universally never comment on anything of this nature.  Go online to websites dedicated to almost any activity that involves ownership/purchasing of products from companies.  Almost universally all companies have a product that people feel has an issue, or there is in fact an issue, with people acting the same as with the Kapex, demanding the same thing from the manufacture, and universally no company responds. The companies fix things under warranties, bring out other products and plug away.  One general theme is those who yell the most have unrealistic expectations of things and spent money on something they really didn't have the money to spend on. 

I take far more issue with tool availability, discontinuing of tools, taking metric tools away and so forth with Festool, these are things they can control much more so than 1 tool failing more than normal.

The only point that matters is the armatures are failing and that’s what is important.

And again, no one knows the failure mode.  Armatures failing doesn't mean the armature is the problem/cause.  Festool certainly knows more about the situation than anyone here ever will.   In the end Festool very well has determine the issue to be the users/users electrical.  If that's the case it's pretty simple situation for them.

If you don't own a Kapex and have concern, don't buy one. If you own one and have had no issues, carry on. If you own one and are concerned it could fail, you keep it in mind and accept it could fail the next time you use it.  No reason to treat one saw any differently than everything else in life.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 273
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #315 on: February 01, 2019, 10:42 PM »
Everyone knows the failure mode...the armature on an SCMS that costs 2 to 3 times the going market price goes POOF...up in smoke.  Festool apparently has had no success identifying the root cause of the failure or they know but they don't want to eat the expense of fixing it but they still happily take your money for a saw that may work...or it may not.

Offline awil66

  • Posts: 148
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #316 on: February 06, 2019, 06:58 PM »
Mine failed for the second time on Monday. Low power, burning smell, intermittent starting, then nothing at all. Just over three years from the previous failure. Same MO. I took it apart to the field and armature, and apart from the smell I can’t see any obvious point of failure. Ordered new parts today.
One thing when looking on the ekat, the Canadian and US version diagrams differ in labeling and price for what is the armature. The US diagram calls it the lower field, part 201, and it is a few dollars more than the Canadian diagram which calls it the armature, part 1. Anyone know why this is?

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 11794
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #317 on: February 06, 2019, 07:03 PM »
I would suggest that you call and talk to Festool service about your part order and make sure you are getting what would normally be included if a Kapex with similar symptoms were to be repaired by them.

Just a suggestion.

Peter

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 867
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #318 on: February 06, 2019, 07:08 PM »
Mine failed for the second time on Monday. Low power, burning smell, intermittent starting, then nothing at all. Just over three years from the previous failure.

Someone has just listed his Kapex for sale. As soon as he spotted the smell (the motor had not died yet), he immediately sent it to Festool for repair. The repair report seemed to suggest armature failure. So the smell was a telling sign.

Are you a Canadian or a US owner of the Kapex. I saw elsewhere that Canadian owners get five years of warranty on their Kapex.

By the way, you said low power. What was the setting on your saw (1-5 (or 6?)) when it died?

Offline awil66

  • Posts: 148
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #319 on: February 06, 2019, 08:54 PM »
In the US. Always ran on 6

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 155
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #320 on: February 07, 2019, 05:06 PM »
Vaguely remembering a similar circumstance happening a long time ago:
Ford’s Edsel (named it after one of the Ford sons).
So what you are saying is that I have a Festool Edsel?  [eek]

Just curious what is your SCMS of choice?
Kapex for accuracy, 216mm (8-1/2in) DW for "hack" work, because it'll handle the vast majority of what I do.

I actually do a lot of work for contractors who supply their own (hire company) saws - the big Bosch Glide is too ruddy big and heavy to be mobile and has terrible dust extraction (they also seem to get sloppy after a few years hard use), the 12in Milwaukee is another heavyweight monster, the Hitachi 12in double slide is probably the least accurate saw I've ever used, the big Makitas (LS1218 - we haven't seen the -19 here yet) is another saw which is short on accuracy and again is fairly big and has poor extraction while the DWS780 is probably a better (more accurate) saw to use than any of the others, with shadow line technology for the cut line which is simple and effective, but again it's big and heavy with poor dust extraction. If there weren't a Kapex, that would be my choice, especially as there is a Flexvolt derivative that can run off mains or battery. TBH the Kapex can do most of what those saws do, is easier to cart around site, it's more accurate and the lasers actually work. As to whether or not you think it's worth the money.... But I do admit that a little niggle in the back of my brain is always that motor
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 05:11 PM by Job and Knock »
Simplicity is the embodiment of purity and unity
- Shaker maxim

TS 55 - TS75 - Kapex KS120 - OF1010 - OF2200 - Rotex RO150e - Domino DF500Q -  Domino DF700XL

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 132
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #321 on: March 02, 2019, 01:46 PM »
Over the years, I’ve owned and used professionally, many cross cut miter saws from various brands. There have been pros and cons with the majority of them but, generally they were all pretty good and all served me well for earning a living. I do look after my tools but, these saws were used in every sense of the word, no nursing or babying any of them, they were used in the manner they were designed for. None of them ever suffered motor issues though.

So reading some of the comments in this thread where owners have nursed, baby’d or held back in using the Kapex to it’s potential, is a bit worrying for me. Sure I understand as well as anybody else, that tools should be looked after and treated well in order to keep us earning or pursuing a hobby using them, especially expensive tools.
The expensive part makes it all the harder for me to understand, somebody having to nurse maid the saw when using it?

It’s a great shame, as only today, I saw a good deal on an ex display Kapex 120. I don’t currently need a new saw and had just spent a lot of money on a planer thicknesser. Even so, I was very tempted at the price, until I remembered some of the threads here. So, took one last look before moving on.

It’s a great shame that such an otherwise superb saw, has these motor issues, what’s a greater shame for me, is the way Festool seem keen to play it down, when obviously the problem still exists.

I do like investing in Festool but, for at least the foreseeable future, I’ll give the Kapex a wide berth.
I hope those of you that own one, and have no issues continue to do so. I also hope this issue becomes a distant memory.  ;)

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3822
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #322 on: March 02, 2019, 01:50 PM »
Well said!

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 867
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #323 on: March 02, 2019, 02:45 PM »

Snip.
It’s a great shame, as only today, I saw a good deal on an ex display Kapex 120. I don’t currently need a new saw and had just spent a lot of money on a planer thicknesser. Even so, I was very tempted at the price, until I remembered some of the threads here. So, took one last look before moving on.


If I were not already a Kapex owner and saw that deal (assuming the discount was at least 30% off), I would ask a few questions before walking away: Does the saw have its original motor? How long has it been on display? What is the warranty for the display model? And why the store is selling it?

If I was satisfied after reviewing the info. received and conditions (blade, etc.), I would get the showroom Kapex, at the time trying to push for a little more discount.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 02:56 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5610
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #324 on: March 02, 2019, 02:57 PM »
If I was satisfied after reviewing the info. received, I would get the showroom Kapex trying to push for a 30% off or more the regular price.

If I remember correctly, around the September/October/November time frame, Festool recon was offering Kapex's for either 35% or 40% off. I was surprised at the time however they kept appearing every couple of days so I figured Festool just had a load of them to get rid of...thus the deep discount.

Offline Doug S

  • Posts: 404
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #325 on: March 02, 2019, 02:58 PM »

Snip.
It’s a great shame, as only today, I saw a good deal on an ex display Kapex 120. I don’t currently need a new saw and had just spent a lot of money on a planer thicknesser. Even so, I was very tempted at the price, until I remembered some of the threads here. So, took one last look before moving on.


If I were not already a Kapex owner and saw that deal (assuming the discount was at least 25% off), I would ask a few questions before walking away: Does the saw have its original motor? How long has it been on display? What is the warranty for the display model? And why the store is selling it?

If I was satisfied after reviewing the info. received, I would get the showroom Kapex trying to push for a 30% off or more the regular price.

I suspect the reason they were selling it cheap is that the ex display Kapex would be the old model and the new model is out in the UK now.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 867
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #326 on: March 02, 2019, 04:17 PM »
If I was satisfied after reviewing the info. received, I would get the showroom Kapex trying to push for a 30% off or more the regular price.

If I remember correctly, around the September/October/November time frame, Festool recon was offering Kapex's for either 35% or 40% off. I was surprised at the time however they kept appearing every couple of days so I figured Festool just had a load of them to get rid of...thus the deep discount.

Did recon include saws returned within 30 days of purchase? I suppose if someone used a saw for 3 weeks and returned it, it would not be resold as new.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5610
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #327 on: March 02, 2019, 05:07 PM »
Did recon include saws returned within 30 days of purchase? I suppose if someone used a saw for 3 weeks and returned it, it would not be resold as new.

Yes

Correct, that’s probably what drives the quantities on the recon site. There have been times when the recon site is open for business for 20 minutes or more. Other times it’s only open for business for 20 seconds.


Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 132
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #328 on: March 02, 2019, 07:24 PM »

Snip.
It’s a great shame, as only today, I saw a good deal on an ex display Kapex 120. I don’t currently need a new saw and had just spent a lot of money on a planer thicknesser. Even so, I was very tempted at the price, until I remembered some of the threads here. So, took one last look before moving on.


If I were not already a Kapex owner and saw that deal (assuming the discount was at least 30% off), I would ask a few questions before walking away: Does the saw have its original motor? How long has it been on display? What is the warranty for the display model? And why the store is selling it?

If I was satisfied after reviewing the info. received and conditions (blade, etc.), I would get the showroom Kapex, at the time trying to push for a little more discount.

It wasn’t quite 30% off but close, it looked in very good shape to be fair. There were other Festool ex display tools on offer too, mainly dust extractors and a couple of sanders.
The saw will no doubt be snapped up by somebody, and the chances are it will give years of service without issue. On the other hand.......................

I might have given it more consideration if I were needing a new saw but, I really don’t, and having spent nudging £3k on toys tools today, moving on was safer  ;)

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 405
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #329 on: March 02, 2019, 08:52 PM »
I wouldn't read into the recon site much. They had planex's (planexi?) half off during their big sale in november.  Recently they have popped up for a lot more money.  I would guess they have times they get a pile of tools and just want it cleared out so they drop the price, and a Kapex takes up a lot of space.

We know a new one is coming, it's not like they will want to have a pile of the old ones laying around.  Far as buying one, it's not like the new one will be cheap, so a used/discount/etc Kapex will be a good deal even with a chance of it failing.  As long as you can get the parts to repair one, it's not the end of the world.