Author Topic: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again. (Read 54788 times)

Alex · « **Reply #90 on:** July 29, 2017, 10:39 AM »

Quote from: Holmz on July 29, 2017, 09:15 AM

In any case, in Denmark there is no helmet law.

Uhm, yes there is.

ChuckM · « **Reply #91 on:** July 29, 2017, 10:51 AM »

Quote from: Bohdan on July 29, 2017, 10:03 AM

Quote from: Holmz on July 29, 2017, 09:15 AM

The incidence of accidents is lower without a helmet, which is contrary to "common sense".

Sure about this???

How to prove that? It is like saying using a tablesaw without any safety precautions (no guards, splitters, etc.) would reduce the incidence of accidents.

I can understand that a biker or tabelsaw user might exercise more precaution in such circumstances, but that doesn't necessarily result in lower incidence of accidents than when a helmet or guard is used, as for example, a motor cycle accident can be caused by other users of the road, whether or not a biker wears a helmet.

PatR · « **Reply #92 on:** July 29, 2017, 11:36 AM »

Quote from: Alex on July 29, 2017, 10:39 AM

Quote from: Holmz on July 29, 2017, 09:15 AM
In any case, in Denmark there is no helmet law.

Uhm, yes there is.

Uhm, no there isn't.

It is recommended that you wear a cycle helmet in Denmark but it is neither the law or obligatory. Just like The Netherlands.

Alex · « **Reply #93 on:** July 29, 2017, 01:55 PM »

Quote from: PatR on July 29, 2017, 11:36 AM

Quote from: Alex on July 29, 2017, 10:39 AM
Quote from: Holmz on July 29, 2017, 09:15 AM
In any case, in Denmark there is no helmet law.

Uhm, yes there is.

Uhm, no there isn't.

It is recommended that you wear a cycle helmet in Denmark but it is neither the law or obligatory. Just like The Netherlands.

Interesting how some people seem to jump from motorcycle to bicycle. There's a difference, you know. Maybe read a bit back.

Naildrivingman · « **Reply #94 on:** July 29, 2017, 02:04 PM »

Squirrel

Tinker · « **Reply #95 on:** July 29, 2017, 02:41 PM »

When I was riding motorcycles, I always wore a helmet. anybody who rode on my bike was required to wear a hlmet.
I had a young man orking for me who loved to rid. I allowed him to ride only if he wore a helmet, which, BTW, I supplied. One day he got cut off head on by a driver making an illegal left turn at a traffic light. My helper ended up with a dislocatd shoulder,a stretched knee ligament and an undamaged head. He thanked me for the undamaged head. I told me that he felt and heard his helmet banging along the side of the car. He told me his helmet might have hit the side of the car at least 5 or six times. He and his newly wed wife were happy that he was still alive. They attributed that to having worn a helmet. Just one life saved makes it worth while to me to have insisted. I no longer ride motorcycles. My children and grandchild do ride. AND they all wear helmets when riding.
Tinker

ChuckM · « **Reply #96 on:** July 29, 2017, 02:54 PM »

In my province, one must wear an approved motorcycle helmet when operating a power bicycle/motorcycle.

In addition, 6 years ago, the government made it mandatory for bicycle riders under 18 to wear helmets. Safety experts were applauding the legislation, citing studies "which show helmets reduce head injuries in cycling crashes by 90 per cent."

Naildrivingman · « **Reply #97 on:** July 29, 2017, 09:44 PM »

Rabbit

Cheese · « **Reply #98 on:** July 29, 2017, 11:30 PM »

Quote from: ear3 on July 29, 2017, 08:11 AM

Not to hijack the thread @Cheese , but I've always wondered why people ride motorcycles without helmets. Is it a conscious decision because wearing a helmet cuts down on visibility, or somehow impedes the total experience of being on a bike? It's always seemed to me like a needless risk to go without a helmet, but I'm not a motorcyclist.

Hey Edward...it probably goes back to when I first started riding bikes when I was around 15. At that time, light weight/high strength plastics were not yet available (or maybe even invented) at a reasonable consumer price. The norm was hand laid fiber glass mat and resin. This led to a strong but very heavy helmet.
I preferred a half helmet for dirt biking and a full helmet for street biking.
The half helmet was manageable but the full Bell Star helmet was extremely heavy. It also had limited peripheral vision. To make matters worse, at speeds over 30 mph, air pressure would build inside the helmet and attempt to pull the helmet off your head, straining your neck.
So, between the weight at lower speeds, and the extreme lifting forces at higher speeds along with the decreased peripheral vision, the full Bell Star helmet became a non-starter for me. I found I was more aware of traffic conditions and better able to be out of harms way without a helmet as opposed to with a helmet.

Interestingly enough, I've always worn a helmet for dirt biking and have always worn gloves, jeans and a long sleeved shirt or leather jacket for street riding. The helmet just messed with my visual and aural sensitivities when it came to street riding.
I do use a full face helmet when riding on the interstate...go figure.

ear3 · « **Reply #99 on:** July 30, 2017, 06:38 AM »

Ah, that makes more sense.

Quote from: Cheese on July 29, 2017, 11:30 PM

Quote from: ear3 on July 29, 2017, 08:11 AM
Not to hijack the thread @Cheese , but I've always wondered why people ride motorcycles without helmets. Is it a conscious decision because wearing a helmet cuts down on visibility, or somehow impedes the total experience of being on a bike? It's always seemed to me like a needless risk to go without a helmet, but I'm not a motorcyclist.

Hey Edward...it probably goes back to when I first started riding bikes when I was around 15. At that time, light weight/high strength plastics were not yet available (or maybe even invented) at a reasonable consumer price. The norm was hand laid fiber glass mat and resin. This led to a strong but very heavy helmet.
I preferred a half helmet for dirt biking and a full helmet for street biking.
The half helmet was manageable but the full Bell Star helmet was extremely heavy. It also had limited peripheral vision. To make matters worse, at speeds over 30 mph, air pressure would build inside the helmet and attempt to pull the helmet off your head, straining your neck.
So, between the weight at lower speeds, and the extreme lifting forces at higher speeds along with the decreased peripheral vision, the full Bell Star helmet became a non-starter for me. I found I was more aware of traffic conditions and better able to be out of harms way without a helmet as opposed to with a helmet.

Interestingly enough, I've always worn a helmet for dirt biking and have always worn gloves, jeans and a long sleeved shirt or leather jacket for street riding. The helmet just messed with my visual and aural sensitivities when it came to street riding.
I do use a full face helmet when riding on the interstate...go figure.

glass1 · « **Reply #100 on:** July 30, 2017, 08:18 AM »

Notice how the moderators are not putting it back on topic. I am sure festool execs would rather y'all discuss motorcycle helmets than kapex motor failure.

Peter Halle · « **Reply #101 on:** July 30, 2017, 08:21 AM »

Sorry, had other non-forum stuff to do.

How about we get back on topic please.

Thanks.

Peter

Jozsef Kozma · « **Reply #102 on:** July 30, 2017, 09:42 AM »

No sorry needed Peter

Dovetail65 · « **Reply #103 on:** July 30, 2017, 11:25 AM »

Quote from: glass1 on July 30, 2017, 08:18 AM

Notice how the moderators are not putting it back on topic. I am sure festool execs would rather y'all discuss motorcycle helmets than kapex motor failure.

Threads as long and big as this go off a bit, so what.

Please stop making it seem like it's some coordinated, nefarious effort by Festool. If it were this topic would not exist and every negative thing would be deleted, including yours.

My lord do we want a fun place to talk, or do we just want a data base with information? Humans dont talk without veering off subject a bit. From my perspective we were 10 posts away from moderator intervention.

Lets keep it fun.

That being said I sent 3 Kapex back, but they NEVER had a motor issue. Actually, other than this forum I never heard about a motor issue and I know at least 5 people that own them. I could never get my hands on a broken one here in IL.

Vondawg · « **Reply #104 on:** July 30, 2017, 11:36 AM »

Well said Dovetail65 !

SRSemenza · « **Reply #105 on:** July 30, 2017, 11:41 AM »

Quote from: glass1 on July 30, 2017, 08:18 AM

Notice how the moderators are not putting it back on topic. I am sure festool execs would rather y'all discuss motorcycle helmets than kapex motor failure.

Yes, that's it, you've nailed it! Why just this morning the execs were messaging me to let this topic run wild! That way no one will notice the ten million topics on Kapex problems.

I have never been instructed by Festool to do anything different or particular with the Kapex problems topics.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are a ton of topics that go OT that we don't bother trying to keep on track. There are a number of reasons we might try putting a thread back on topic. Sometimes it is at the OP's request, very commonly it is because the topic is headed into a discussion that is not allowed on FOG or because members are starting to take shots at each other. Or a new member is trying to find out some piece of info without a lot of clutter. Sometimes it is because something interesting or that hasn't been discussed to death is going to get buried by the OT.

Please note that if Festool wanted to bury the Kapex problem topics ........ none of them would have ever been allowed to survive more than about five minutes on FOG. To the contrary the discussion has been allowed to go on ad nauseam.

Seth

glass1 · « **Reply #106 on:** July 31, 2017, 12:20 AM »

Srsemenza. I guess sarcasm is above your pay grade. 😏

Gregor · « **Reply #107 on:** August 14, 2017, 08:46 AM »

I stumbled over this slashdot comment about a marketing approach to 'problematic' products (in the story about how microsoft had been blaming intel for its own bad surface drivers):

Quote

Customers who spend more on premium products tend to be more satisfied even when they are unreliable because they need to justify their own decision-making process.

Yep, this is a very well-known effect. I remember discussing this in a marketing class, and it's why you can find a lot of high-status consumer goods that are not very, umm, good.

Our instructor even quipped: if you that know your product is likely to have a high return rate, you're better off seriously overpricing it and spending extra attention on styling and marketing. People generally hate to admit to being taken and will keep it to themselves. They're more likely to act like the product is everything they expected it to be, sometimes even to the point of telling their friends how great it is. This tendency will lower your rate of returns and will reduce the amount of bad press and word-of-mouth you'll get.

Marketing is a sleazy business.

Made me think about several discussions here (problems with certain tools) and lead me to the question about the extend customers actually can be manipulated that way. Does this strategy really work relieably enough to actually be employed on a wider scale?

And if the answer to the last question is 'yes': how to defend oneself (and others) against such attacks against the brain?

mikeyr · « **Reply #108 on:** August 14, 2017, 12:32 PM »

Quote from: SRSemenza on July 30, 2017, 11:41 AM

Please note that if Festool wanted to bury the Kapex problem topics ........ none of them would have ever been allowed to survive more than about five minutes on FOG. To the contrary the discussion has been allowed to go on ad nauseam.

Seth

Come on, does anyone really believe that the higher ups at Festool even know this forum exists ? They don't care, they got our money when we bought the tool and they are making money when we send it in for repair, its all good for them and they don't care this forum exists. I do agree that if they wanted to bury the problems they would talk to FOG admins and the threads would be killed, but they don't even know there is a FOG or a problem. That is how it works at big companies, by the time you get up the ladder you just know, company made this much or lost this much, the actual reason for profit is not important and if its a loss, its time for new managment, not a fix to the real problem.

kevinculle · « **Reply #109 on:** August 14, 2017, 01:51 PM »

Quote from: Gregor on August 14, 2017, 08:46 AM

I stumbled over this slashdot comment about a marketing approach to 'problematic' products (in the story about how microsoft had been blaming intel for its own bad surface drivers):
Quote
Customers who spend more on premium products tend to be more satisfied even when they are unreliable because they need to justify their own decision-making process.

Yep, this is a very well-known effect. I remember discussing this in a marketing class, and it's why you can find a lot of high-status consumer goods that are not very, umm, good.

Our instructor even quipped: if you that know your product is likely to have a high return rate, you're better off seriously overpricing it and spending extra attention on styling and marketing. People generally hate to admit to being taken and will keep it to themselves. They're more likely to act like the product is everything they expected it to be, sometimes even to the point of telling their friends how great it is. This tendency will lower your rate of returns and will reduce the amount of bad press and word-of-mouth you'll get.

Marketing is a sleazy business.

Made me think about several discussions here (problems with certain tools) and lead me to the question about the extend customers actually can be manipulated that way. Does this strategy really work relieably enough to actually be employed on a wider scale?

And if the answer to the last question is 'yes': how to defend oneself (and others) against such attacks against the brain?

The term of art is expectation bias and it is arguably the reason the scientific process was needed. The psychology behind it is that our expectations (due to word of mouth, appearances, what we paid, shiny bling, whatever...) strongly color our experiences. So if I pay a buttload for something and its pretty and shiny and other people tell me how great it is, I will ignore my actual experience and allow my expectations to bias it. In its ultimate incantation it has people feeling good about overpaying for things because of the exclusivity of being able to overpay! Caveat emptor!

Peter Halle · « **Reply #110 on:** August 14, 2017, 05:58 PM »

I can assure you that the higher ups of FESTOOL know about this forum. CHRISTIAN who is the CSO or CEO (depending on who is writing what) was instrumental in the development and growth of this forum while he was based in the US. He and I have had conversations regarding the forum within the last year and yes, he does regularly read posts. So do others and they have been doing that for years.

Peter

Quote from: mikeyr on August 14, 2017, 12:32 PM

Quote from: SRSemenza on July 30, 2017, 11:41 AM
Please note that if Festool wanted to bury the Kapex problem topics ........ none of them would have ever been allowed to survive more than about five minutes on FOG. To the contrary the discussion has been allowed to go on ad nauseam.

Seth

Come on, does anyone really believe that the higher ups at Festool even know this forum exists ? They don't care, they got our money when we bought the tool and they are making money when we send it in for repair, its all good for them and they don't care this forum exists. I do agree that if they wanted to bury the problems they would talk to FOG admins and the threads would be killed, but they don't even know there is a FOG or a problem. That is how it works at big companies, by the time you get up the ladder you just know, company made this much or lost this much, the actual reason for profit is not important and if its a loss, its time for new managment, not a fix to the real problem.

ChuckM · « **Reply #111 on:** August 14, 2017, 06:11 PM »

Peter Halle link
"I can assure you that the higher ups of FESTOOL know about this forum. CHRISTIAN who is the CSO or CEO (depending on who is writing what) was instrumental in the development and growth of this forum while he was based in the US. He and I have had conversations regarding the forum within the last year and yes, he does regularly read posts. So do others and they have been doing that for years.

Peter"

Other business leaders would die to have the kind of frank feedback -- even though sometimes less friendly or less courteous -- that this Forum has been collecting. I would be very surprised that Festool executives or designated managers would not be monitoring the comments expressed in this Forum. Companies -- banks, automakers, retailers (A&W, MacDonald's, etc.), fashions -- pay outside agencies to collect customer feedback on their behalf and the information they collect is not even as rich as that we see here in the Forum.

Other tool vendors or makers go to woodworking forums to scan and collect information relating to their companies (products, customer service, etc.) so they know what the endusers are saying about them. Woodworking magazines do the same. That is why they join the social media, too, to get in touch with customers in a way that the traditional channels (emails, telephone and snail mails) cannot replace.

In the old days (pre-Internet), the company I worked for had a dedicated dept. (Public Relations & Publicity) that monitored the press, columnists, customer complaints, service feedback and other community channels. Each morning, we received the "Digest" prepared by them covering news, service development and legislation relating to our industry so we all knew more about the outside world around us when we made our internal executive decisions. The people working to collect information were full-time head counts mostly with journalism, business or market survey and research backgrounds. We were just about to incorporate emails in our system in those days.

One more thing: I also had a Manager coordinating and handling complaints, regardless of the nature of them. This way, the complainant had only one party to deal with. The Manager redirected the complaints to the relevant dept or managers as he saw fit. Outsiders didn't know or didn't want to know how your internal system worked and so we put in place one person (at a managerial level) as their contact point.

Arthur444 · « **Reply #112 on:** September 25, 2017, 11:52 AM »

Holy smokes my less then 2 year old Kapex died yesterday. I just joined this forum and I can't believe that with blades I've got over 2000$ in a piece of junk. I'm semi-retired, I sell stuff on Etsy. This saw went from the box to a bench and mostly cuts Cedar 9 months out of the year. It has less then a years worth of professional use. I've had to replace the brushes twice already and I noticed it sounded a little funny but I though it had to be my imagination because cognitive dissonance was not allowing my brain to wrap around the fact my 1500$ miter box was already taking a dump. Sure enough yesterday it stopped working, if you smack the top of the handle it will work for awhile but also I noticed yesterday before I stopped using it I made 16 cuts in repetition on 1/2"x 2 1/2" white pine and the motor housing was too hot to touch. I unplugged it and finished the job with another saw. This saw is literally self destructing.This is really shoddy. I have been stolen from. I was a professional woodworker for 30 yrs. and my Dewalt DW708 lasted 25 of those years without one problem.

antss · « **Reply #113 on:** September 25, 2017, 12:36 PM »

Arthur - sorry to hear about your trouble.

You should probably just send it back to Festool to have it repaired under warranty and then place it for sale, recouping most of your money.

You can read about Makitas new saw , which by all early accounts is just about as good as kapex. Yet, costs roughly 1/3 the price.

Arthur444 · « **Reply #114 on:** September 25, 2017, 12:46 PM »

Yep, I have to find out if it's still under warranty and hopefully get it fixed and sell it. I bought the new Makita this morning for a little over 500$.

SRSemenza · « **Reply #115 on:** September 25, 2017, 12:50 PM »

Quote from: Arthur444 on September 25, 2017, 12:46 PM

Yep, I have to find out if it's still under warranty and hopefully get it fixed and sell it. I bought the new Makita this morning for a little over 500$.

Three year warranty. When did you buy it?

Seth

Arthur444 · « **Reply #116 on:** September 25, 2017, 01:10 PM »

Omg, I bought this 9/3/16. It's barely a year old. Wow, in my whole professional career I've never had a tool be more babied and self destruct this fast. I've got to get this fixed and I want it out of my shop as quickly as possible. You charge 1475$ for this. Shame.

SRSemenza · « **Reply #117 on:** September 25, 2017, 01:17 PM »

Quote from: Arthur444 on September 25, 2017, 01:10 PM

Omg, I bought this 9/3/16. It's barely a year old. Wow, in my whole professional career I've never had a tool be more babied and self destruct this fast. I've got to get this fixed and I want it out of my shop as quickly as possible. You charge 1475$ for this. Shame.

So contact Festool 888-337-8600 .

Seth

Holmz · « **Reply #118 on:** September 25, 2017, 05:31 PM »

Quote from: Arthur444 on September 25, 2017, 11:52 AM

Holy smokes my less then 2 year old Kapex died yesterday...

The evidence of smoke is anything but holy.
But the following does have a religious fervour.

Naildrivingman · « **Reply #119 on:** October 03, 2017, 09:14 PM »

My 1 year and 11 month old Kapex burned up today. I'm not going down the rant road as it serves no purpose. I'm merely posting so other FOGgers are aware of yet another failure.

BTW, my saw has always been plugged directly into a 20A or into my CT26 plugged directly into a 20A. I have never used cords or 15A circuits. I have never used a generator or invertor. I have cut no thicker than 2x soft wood material. I have always used a sharp blade. I have done everything as right as I possibly could.

On to Indiana.