Having trouble with your Festool power tool? Well, we're here to help you. Before posting to the forum, give us a chance to diagnose and resolve your issue. In the U.S. and Canada, call us toll-free at 888-337-8600 on Monday-Friday between 8a-5p EST or contact us via email at service@festoolusa.com. For other countries, please visit http://www.festool.com for contact information for your local Festool service department.

Author Topic: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.  (Read 16593 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rsrflooring

  • Posts: 15
Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« on: July 01, 2017, 10:42 AM »
So my 2.5 year old saw has blown smoke out of the motor and stopped working for the second time in 2 years. To Festools credit the unit was repaired free of charge. They tell me this is isolated. I can see here on fog that they are noy beimg forthcoming. I highly recommend if you do work in the hardwood industry to buy something different. You'll save yourself money and a headache. I own many other festool products i am happy with. I cant find a bad initial review about this saw anywhere. Seems the issues come about 1 year later.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline PA floor guy

  • Posts: 284
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2017, 12:10 PM »
I too install wood floors for a living.  This past week while installing some 5" white oak, I noticed the saw starting to bog down.  Keep in mind I baby this saw, really baby it.  I would be very disgusted if it burnt up.  It's about 2 years old. 

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 458
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2017, 12:16 PM »
So my 2.5 year old saw has blown smoke out of the motor and stopped working for the second time in 2 years. To Festools credit the unit was repaired free of charge. They tell me this is isolated. I can see here on fog that they are noy beimg forthcoming. I highly recommend if you do work in the hardwood industry to buy something different. You'll save yourself money and a headache. I own many other festool products i am happy with. I cant find a bad initial review about this saw anywhere. Seems the issues come about 1 year later.

I blew all these reports of Kapex failure off as bad luck for several years thinking the users just got a lemon or may have been working them to death. Luckily it has never happened to me, but mine was purchased the day they were released in the US. I think it is time to move onto other brands for mitre saws. There are several other manufacturers to pick from. Write it up as a loss and move on. As an installer you can't afford to be without your saw.

Offline Rsrflooring

  • Posts: 15
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2017, 12:51 PM »
I have already decided to sell it and biy the new makita LS1019 when its available. My 7 year makita is still running strong. The new one one has gotten much better dust collection with forward rails like the kapex.

Offline Rsrflooring

  • Posts: 15
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2017, 02:42 PM »
Anyone else have problems let me hear it on instagram. Use #brokenkapex

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 164
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2017, 06:01 PM »
As a Kapex owner (since early 2015), I am increasingly alarmed by this and other similar reports. I wish I had known about this forum before I bought my saw! As a saw, it is, however, excellent in all aspects, from dust collection (no one else is better) to angles to clamping (I don't have any issues with its ergonomics).

Offline Rsrflooring

  • Posts: 15
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2017, 06:33 PM »
I to wish i had known. I do like the saw. Just not willing to keep sinking money in it when the warranty is up.

Online Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 263
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2017, 09:50 PM »
Oh boy...mine is coming three years old and has been babied like the OP's. I'm starting to get worried. Please pray for my saw. Thx.
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 164
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2017, 10:33 PM »
Praying for yours and mine!

Happy Canada Day!


Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1899
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2017, 01:25 AM »
I have already decided to sell it and biy the new makita LS1019 when its available. My 7 year makita is still running strong. The new one one has gotten much better dust collection with forward rails like the kapex.
Interesting new Makita
+1

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 266
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2017, 10:07 AM »
I have already decided to sell it and biy the new makita LS1019 when its available. My 7 year makita is still running strong. The new one one has gotten much better dust collection with forward rails like the kapex.

I have been looking to replace my old Hitachi miter saw and the new Makita looks like a contender. I would never consider the Kapex although I own a lot of Festool tools. The fact that Festool continues to say this is not a problem makes me wonder what kind of a company they are. [unsure]

Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline Rsrflooring

  • Posts: 15
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2017, 10:38 AM »
Whats upsetting to me is that almost every comparison of mitre saws puts the KAPEX at the top. For intial testing, ease of use, dust collection yheu are right. For the ones using the saw to make money every day making hundreds of cuts in hard material, it just can't keep up. Being that is has faulty internals or is underpowered, we can only speculate because its all isolated incidents.

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 10663
  • Let's Redux / Revive / Rewind / Rollback the FOG!
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2017, 11:09 AM »
Whats upsetting to me is that almost every comparison of mitre saws puts the KAPEX at the top. For intial testing, ease of use, dust collection yheu are right. For the ones using the saw to make money every day making hundreds of cuts in hard material, it just can't keep up. Being that is has faulty internals or is underpowered, we can only speculate because its all isolated incidents.

I have no idea where Festool is in their investigation on the Kapex.  I also believe that silence on this issue will hurt them long term.  But they are a large enough company to devote resources and hire consultants to do what they need to do.

That being said, I have had my Kapex since 2010 and have made a bunch of bucks with it.  If it were to die - which I don't think that it will - I would have to get an old Hitachi out of storage to get me thru.  If I had to buy a new saw would I look at a Kapex?  Possibly.  But other brands would be considered primarily and heavily.

I might be a Moderator here but I shop with my dollars.  Hopefully someone at Festool has set up a notification for when I post and they will see this.

Head slap.

Mike drop.

Peter


Offline Doug S

  • Posts: 381
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2017, 12:56 PM »
Well timed post this, my Kapex just smoked for the second time in 5 years. I wasn't going to post about it because everyone gets fed up of the Kapex bashing but since it has started up again I will join in.

Mine first burnt out when it was less then 2 years old, fixed under warranty. It has now just reached its 5th birthday, I was using it on Thursday, it made a funny noise, big puff of smoke out of the back and a really bad acrid smell just the same as the first time.

My Kapex is only used by me, normally in the workshop and certainly never pushed or used hard.

It is a great saw when it comes to extraction, accuracy and portability but the motor is certainly not fit for purpose, Festool should be fixing these saws free of charge even when out of warranty.

It's a 240v UK model so the problem is not just with the 110v American version.

I shall be calling Festool tomorrow for a chat.

Doug

Offline Rsrflooring

  • Posts: 15
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2017, 02:29 PM »
Good luck with your phone call. My last few calls to repairs I spoke with Brett. After disscussing my issue and asking for some sort of resolution I?would be met with silence on the other end. Almost as he was unwilling to say anything. I asked for the tech to call me when my tool was on the work bench so I could inderstand what was happening. He took my repair order number and said they would call. Of course i was not surprised when the tool was returned fixed without getting a phone call.

I was asked the same questions. What environment i use the tool in?

How do I power the tool?

How do I make cuts?

What I am cutting?

What blades and how sharp?

I was also told this issue would likely not happen again. After that my local store got involved. They were told the issue is me not keeping the blade sharp. I have 3 that i rotate and have sharpened.

After answering all the questions and hearing that I am using the tool correctlty I was tranferred to applications. They tell me If using a higher tooth count blade , plug it into the wall and not the Ct 36. Dont cut anything wider than 3 inches.  Goodbye.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 164
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2017, 03:20 PM »
Dont cut anything wider than 3 inches.  Goodbye.

Seriously?!

Did you place your call on ... April the 1st?

I am much impressed with what Peter, the G.M., wrote above. He wrote from his heart...something a lot of people won't do these days to avoid upsetting someone higher up.

Festool has been burying its head in the sand for so long on this big eye-sore, and it is time it came up with a solution for all Kapex owners, before pushing any new tools. Divert and focus any new tool development resources to curing this cancer before its reputation is damaged beyond repair.

Offline Jaybolishes

  • Posts: 353
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2017, 05:22 PM »
It's time everyone demands instant action by festool on  these motors.  There's no denying it, the kapex motors have a good percentage of them being made poorly.  These last few posts have more than irratated me, and I don't even own a kapex, simply because of these issues. I tried a cut with a kapex and the motor is a weakling.  It's no wonder these things burn up.  It should be noted kapex saws are suitable only to cut balsa wood at a slow rate of cut.  What a joke this has all become.  Smh. Festool ruined their brand with this saw. It isn't happening, it happened. And I'm a guy always promoting how awesome festool tools are, but not the kapex.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 05:25 PM by Jaybolishes »

Offline Rsrflooring

  • Posts: 15
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2017, 05:57 PM »
Same here. All the other tools I own from Festool, I really like.

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 266
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2017, 06:06 PM »
The real mystery here is why they have not gotten out in front of this and done right by the people who bought these saws. I think the the cost would be less than the bad publicity this is going to cost them in the long run.

I don't know how you can equate the cost to the Festool name that this is causing but the longer it is left unresolved the harder it is going to be to overcome. [eek]

Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 10663
  • Let's Redux / Revive / Rewind / Rollback the FOG!
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2017, 06:34 PM »
It's time everyone demands instant action by festool on  these motors.  There's no denying it, the kapex motors have a good percentage of them being made poorly.  These last few posts have more than irratated me, and I don't even own a kapex, simply because of these issues. I tried a cut with a kapex and the motor is a weakling.  It's no wonder these things burn up.  It should be noted kapex saws are suitable only to cut balsa wood at a slow rate of cut.  What a joke this has all become.  Smh. Festool ruined their brand with this saw. It isn't happening, it happened. And I'm a guy always promoting how awesome festool tools are, but not the kapex.

Jay,  thank you for causing me to go and look something up! [big grin]

In an effort to be helpful  to others smh = Acronym for 'shake my head' or 'shaking my head.' Usually used when someone finds something so stupid, no words can do it justice.

Peter

Offline Laminator

  • Posts: 287
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2017, 08:28 PM »
My Kapex, which only gets used occasionally, Still runs great. It is several years old (back when they were only $1300.00) and still looks virtually brand new.  I love it and hope (worriedly) that it never burns up..... but, I know of four contractors who drooled over my saw on the job and wanted one. I told them the good (which is all mine has been) and I warned them of the motor trouble that many have experienced and the lack of resolution from festool.  All these guys concluded that  there was no way on earth to justify ANY problem on such an expensive miter saw. These four guys would now be using a Kapex if not for the motor issue.  It is what it is...past time for resolution.

Offline Rsrflooring

  • Posts: 15
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2017, 08:56 PM »
I am really happy to see so many people discussing this. I dont complain when I have small issues. Usually I just roll with them as I did the first time the motor burned up. After my last experience I need somewhere to discuss how I feel. This has been a goos outlet and hopefully someone at Festool see these posts and the amount of views they get.

Offline overanalyze

  • Posts: 401
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2017, 09:52 PM »
I have remained silent for years on our Kapex issues. Festool service has always been great so I didnt think it was a big deal. I LOVE the saw. I bought it back in 2012 or 2013. It blew the magic smoke right under the warranty period. All shipping and repairs covered. Awesome! Then just a few months ago it did it again. All repairs covered, I paid shipping to Indy. Still very pleased!

Now...if it died again?...Not sure what I would do. I use it for work. I am a builder. It is our finish trim saw. It gets used for trim work only. We have 20 year old Dewalts that are our framing and rough use saws.

I was talking to my father about it and he has a good background in electric. I told him how they always ask about length of cords, circuit amperage, etc. The saw says it is a 120v motor. Our area has always had high voltage power. Consistently runs 125v plus. He wondered if high voltage wasnt more an issue than voltage drop.  Certainly never crosse my mind before he said it...wonder if Festool ever looked at that as a possibility...

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3756
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2017, 11:51 PM »
The standard ISO method is that usually one makes a fishbone diagram of the mechanisms that lead to failure. Like ISO 21500, IEC 60034, ISO 1940, ISO 7919... etc... There are tons of them as well as the US 6-sigma.

They should know what is failing as well as the mechanisms that cause those parts to fail.
While magic smoke is escaping, the mechanism of failure is not magical.
There is a design or manufacturing issue that do not allow Kapex' to last the 20+ years like the dewalts... But it should not be magical or mysterious, unless it is just a perception issue.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1168
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2017, 08:40 AM »
I think it's past time that @TylerC 's bosses come on here and make a statement re: this issue, non issue , or whatever they are calling it these days.

While they take a black eye around here , their overall reputation is barely scratched out there in tooldom.  Bloggers and Video reviewers keep lauding the machine, and the general public keeps buying Festools by the boat load.  Which motivates FT to do what exactly?

Now, if Tom's saw blew smoke on ToH, or Peter P.'s went tits up on an episode of the New Brit Workshop, or Popular Mechanics or Tool of the Trade ran an article - then maybe enough public pressure could be brought to bear.  But until Kapex problems lead the Google search string , I'm guessing nothing is going to happen.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 422
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2017, 09:15 AM »
Now, if Tom's saw blew smoke on ToH, or Peter P.'s went tits up on an episode of the New Brit Workshop, or Popular Mechanics or Tool of the Trade ran an article - then maybe enough public pressure could be brought to bear.  But until Kapex problems lead the Google search string , I'm guessing nothing is going to happen.
While something like that might lead to a good thing for the ones already owning one the bottom line would be bad.

I sometimes wonder if something similiar to (Fight Club 'the formula') applies here...

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1168
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2017, 10:37 AM »
Major publicity is just bad for a company's bottom line and image anyway you slice it up.

Problem here is , FOG is not major publicity.  And many of the members take up the cause when a complainer shows up.  They defend FT chalking it up to just plain,ol bad luck ; or saying "what are the odds?" 

And they're right.  More guys have no trouble than not.

 Except.........when you the unlucky sod whose got one of the 2.000047% that aren't supercalafrajolistic ; you're not feeling too good about that $1300-1600 you spent and for a saw that lasted 3 1/2 years.  And all those easy bevel, 12% better dust collection, 5lbs lighter, it's a system features are worthless on an electric paperweight that doesn't even turn on.

Laminator's colleagues are correct. At this price, there should be no failures.

The fix is easy: offer a 10yr warranty on Kapex and eat the cost of all those 2.00047% of saws that break.  But just like the video highlights, the financial reality is doing that makes little sense. Especially when the tools keep flying off of the shelf.

Offline Dave Reinhold

  • Posts: 528
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2017, 01:16 PM »
I had a kapex repaired last year, new armature, new armature  lasted until a few days before Christmas till that one burned. Brought out my backup kapex only to have that last 5 months in the field before that armature went up in smoke.
Now I'm down 2 kapex and went out and bought the Bosch glide. Way too heaven and has a ton of blade wobble. Hoping the new makita is as nova as it looks and can be a kapex replacement. The kapex seems too fragile for everyday work. But it's so hard to find something that can come close to its accuracy and light weight.

Dave
check out www.youtube.com/user/DaveReinholdTV for new tool demos every week

Offline rdr

  • Posts: 65
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2017, 02:36 PM »
I am seriously considering pulling the trigger on a Kapex120 but being a member of FOG is putting me off now. It would be for private use and wouldn't get anywhere near trade use so I worry about the possibility of it going pop outside the warranty period. I understand the complexities around Festools situation, it's a big thing to get to the bottom of issues like this and even bigger admitting it and applying remediation to an existing customer base.

If its not going to be addressed physically then I would like to see Festool offer a 10 year warranty from new on the electronics & drive train or maybe an Extended warranty option to take out at the 3rd year much like you can on cars and home appliances.

Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 68
Re: Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2017, 03:55 PM »
As a member of my local woodworkers guild I am kind of considered the "festool guy" in the group that people come to for festool advice.. This problem has already cost them 2 sales in our small group (myself and another member who was planning to buy one, but asked me for feedback).

FOG members around the world are typically Festools leading enthusiasts,and thus key influencers to many many more potential customers.

For everyone who has run around their community raving about the Domino or CXS there are probably an exponentially larger group telling people not to touch a Kapex with a ten foot pole.

One would think that Festool recognizes the influence of this key group of customers, and would respond appropriately. They obviously believe catering to the FOG makes them money, as evidenced by what they spend for the Roadshow and Connect.

Just a few thoughts..............