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Author Topic: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?  (Read 20455 times)

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Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« on: November 14, 2017, 04:43 PM »
Good evening all,
Since starting up the business again and investing heavily in Festool I have to say on every occasion I’ve been disappointed with the repair order service until someone from higher up the ladder takes control. 
I also feel with the amount of money I’m spending on these tools they should last years and years but the latest sander lasted about 6 months. 
I’m seriously considering changing suppliers now to a different brand.
Since stating up I’ve bought the following tools which have broken down or failed in some way.......
Kapex ks120 110v motor / armature failed 
PDC 18v motor failed and gears were replaced
Rotex 90 110v awaiting collection
Domino xl 700 240v awaiting collection
All of these are lightly used and all under 24 months old.
Just on the above it’s roughly £2500-£3000
I do own other tools and as yet they have not broken down.
The problem I have with Festool at the moment is the poor quality of the tools for the premium price I’m paying and the terrible customer service.
I phoned head office on Monday before filling the repair order and was assured that everything would be done and sorted.
Today I ring to confirm collection and to confirm that my collection order had be forwarded to Fedex, again It was confirmed.
When it gets to 4:30pm and they’ve not turned up I’m saying to myself “ here we go again “
Again I ring only to be told that no order has been placed.......... big breath and breathe.
They are a joke in my view.
Once again I’ll have to go further up the ladder to get anything sorted.
Slight rant, I apologse.
All the best,
Louis



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Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2017, 04:57 PM »
Good evening all,
Since starting up the business again and investing heavily in Festool I have to say on every occasion I’ve been disappointed with the repair order service until someone from higher up the ladder takes control. 
I also feel with the amount of money I’m spending on these tools they should last years and years but the latest sander lasted about 6 months. 
I’m seriously considering changing suppliers now to a different brand.
Since stating up I’ve bought the following tools which have broken down or failed in some way.......
Kapex ks120 110v motor / armature failed 
PDC 18v motor failed and gears were replaced
Rotex 90 110v awaiting collection
Domino xl 700 240v awaiting collection
All of these are lightly used and all under 24 months old.
Just on the above it’s roughly £2500-£3000
I do own other tools and as yet they have not broken down.
The problem I have with Festool at the moment is the poor quality of the tools for the premium price I’m paying and the terrible customer service.
I phoned head office on Monday before filling the repair order and was assured that everything would be done and sorted.
Today I ring to confirm collection and to confirm that my collection order had be forwarded to Fedex, again It was confirmed.
When it gets to 4:30pm and they’ve not turned up I’m saying to myself “ here we go again “
Again I ring only to be told that no order has been placed.......... big breath and breathe.
They are a joke in my view.
Once again I’ll have to go further up the ladder to get anything sorted.
Slight rant, I apologse.
All the best,
Louis

Hi Louis
Sorry to hear of your concerns and I have asked Service team leader to contact you.....just to ensure all details are correct can you PM me your contact details please.
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2017, 05:02 PM »
Hi Phil,
Thankyou for your rapid reply!
As ever you are the main man in these situations and things seem to go a lot quicker and smoother when you are involved.
I’ll text all the details through in the morning
Regards,
Louis

Online GarryMartin

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2017, 05:03 PM »
I have a fair amount invested in Festool over the last five years and I've had one failure (a Ti15) that was dealt with really quickly, efficiently, and without any hassle. My tools aren't heavily used by any standards, but because I have trouble-free use from them, and because I enjoy the quality of them when I'm working, and appreciate the "system" that ties them together, I can't see me ditching them any time soon.

I'd like to think you've been unlucky rather than there's a systematic quality problem, but the service issues are clearly unforgiveable. If there's one thing likely to upset me more than anything else, it's breaking a promise. I've seen @Phil Beckley get involved in issues aired in this forum, but that shouldn't really be required; it shouldn't take Phil's intervention to get the service that is advertised and promised (and as if to prove the point, he's replied while I've been typing this!)

Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2017, 05:07 PM »
Hi Phil,
Thankyou for your rapid reply!
As ever you are the main man in these situations and things seem to go a lot quicker and smoother when you are involved.
I’ll text all the details through in the morning
Regards,
Louis

.....email has been sent. Your details will be in our system so you should be contacted first thing
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 487
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2017, 06:06 PM »
I’ve had two failures:  Pro 5 and Kapex. Both took about 2.5 weeks to resolve. I did not handle anything. I dropped the tools off at my vendor and everything was handled, so I’m thinking that is the way I will go if needed in the future.  I’m sad to hear of your troubles and I hope the very best for you.
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline Shadytree

  • Posts: 24
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2017, 06:37 PM »
I'm switching cordless brands because I am tired of waiting for all the normal (when I say normal I mean impact driver) cordless tools that every other brand has. Bosch finally brought the flexiclick to North America so I have a choice.

Offline DB10

  • Posts: 911
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2017, 06:42 PM »
It took six weeks for me to get my TSC55 repaired down here, frustrating having to re schedule work & not knowing when you will receive your tool back.
I thought I was paying a premium for my Festool tools as I would receive a consistent warranty service if I needed one but service all inclusive has turned out to be a bit of a lottery in my opinion.

Offline overanalyze

  • Posts: 410
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2017, 08:12 PM »
The tools I have I love and have been without issue except for out Kapex. Festool service has been great in dealing with our Kapex. Their Sanders are great! Love all 3 of my vacs, trion, domino, FSK, & ts55.

Offline J0hn

  • Posts: 116
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2017, 08:59 PM »
I haven't had any problems with my track saw, CT 36, Trion jigsaw and a couple of sanders.  With that being said, when I needed another miter saw I bought the Bosch Glide and the Bosch vac to go with it.  Recently I wanted a 1/2 sheet sander and bought the Bosch OS50VC and another Bosch Vac.

So to answer your question - yes


Offline pettyconstruction

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2017, 09:21 PM »
I think looking at a different vender is fine , and if they serve your needs better , then go there.
Every manufacturer has their pluses and minuses so plan accordingly.

What kills me is the guy that totally abandons festool because of one or two issues, to take a hit on Craigslist or eBay just because they are mad.
My festool shave been great, but I don't just buy festool.
I buy from the company that I feel has the best tool ( for me ).
Rant over,
Charlie



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Offline Alex

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2017, 01:52 AM »
I have not ditched the tools because I still think they are good quality, but I have ditched the company because I think their mentality and service are very bad. On every occasion I have used them for service now they have let me down, 5 times in a row. I'm not gonna bother again. They have turned me from a Festool advocate into the opposite.

The tools themselves need very little service and I have quite a few of them. When something breaks I just order the parts and repair it myself. I don't see any problem with the tool's quality, apart for some known issues like the ever failing Plug-It cord, or the 110v Kapex problem, which doesn't apply to me in 220v country.

I have bought most of my Festools but two on the used market, so I never put much money in Festool's pocket in that way, but I have bought for thousands of euros worth of consumables and accessories from them to get the tools going. But that's over now. Now I only buy compatible 3rd party materials.

Offline Timtool

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2017, 02:20 AM »
If you look at my list of tools below and consider the vast majority is now out of warranty, then the only problems I have had was my 10 year old kapex armature, OF1010 armature and the Carvex but can't remember what. The first was repaired by Festool in a reasonable period and for a reasonable cost (this was before I was "known") The second I repaired myself.
Plus some have needed new brushes, so they do get used allot.

However one time I also brought in a sander and a drill for a free checkup before warranty ran out, apparently they were overrun because of that new free checkup policy. 2 months later they ended up sending me two brand new tools because it was taking too long.

So I think your main problem is with your national service, you did kinda well to rant on here because I suppose some will get slapped on the wrist over this, threads like these are terrible PR.
Looks like you dealt directly with them? I always bring them to my dealer, his only goal is to keep me happy so I continue going there, and that way I don't have to deal with sending them somehow. They have more weight to pressure the service, and can give you replacement tools. It's in moments like those that I'm happy to have supported brick and mortar stores for most of my tools.

I do feel that with all these similar threads, some have not been able to covert the honey moon into a sane relationship once the adrenaline and new factory smell are gone. Either because they had unrealistic expectations, but apparently also because the other side wasn't making it easy either. Perhaps festool should introduce a policy to replace any tool that doesn't get repaired within 10 days, or supply a replacement which is preferable. That would kill 90% of these rant threads.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 02:33 AM by Timtool »
BR10, MFK 700, OS 400, ETS EC 150/3, KA 65-plus,TS55R, CT22E, CTLmini, CTL MIDI, CTM 36 AC HD, Kapex KS120, ETS125, ETS150/5, RO150, RO90, CXS-set, T-15+3 set, DTS400, OF900, OF1010, OF2200 set, Carvex PS420 EBQ set, EHL 65, SSU 200, Centrotec installer set, LR32-sys, FS-800, FS-LR-1400x2, domino 500+domino sys, domino 700 XL, Surfix-sys, Sys-box 1, Syslite, LEV-350, Sys-box,MFTB/1-2-4... MFTC, MFSC

Offline Kev

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2017, 03:48 AM »
Ditching? No. Because I have most of the Festool range that I need I probably spend more time in consideration when something new is released.

I rarely put myself in a situation where I only have one option to do a task, but when that happens and if the tool failed I'd also be frustrated if the repair window was long and the interaction with the service team wasn't smooth.

The real question is do you really need to flush your entire tool collection to another single brand or are there specific tools you could consider swapping if you've lost confidence in them?

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2017, 11:38 AM »
I have five Festool tools, including the Kapex. NO plans to ditch anything, but if any of them is broken beyond reasonable repair, I don't think I will replace it with another Festool item, except perhaps the DF500.

I have commented before about the Festool service though I have never -- touch wood -- needed to use it. All my Festool tools are from Lee Valley and so I expect (and hope) I can deal with LV Customer Service and not Festool Customer Service in case anything goes wrong.

Offline #Tee

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2017, 12:04 PM »
kapex abused for about 2 years
cxs used alot, first drill i grab for most things
carvex barely used
ts55 abused most often used saw
ct26 turns on everytime kapex and ts55 is used
t18 used alot as well
of1400 not used much
domino df700 used alot
ets ec 150/5 abused for 1yr

So far ZERO issues with any of the power tools. The mft, stool, work center and all of the power tool accessories ive bought and used NOTHING broke yet and performed the way it was advertised. Been a very happy customer for 4yrs.
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

IG: tee212

Offline Motown

  • Posts: 198
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2017, 01:12 PM »
Ditch? No, but there are some tools that I like less than others and I have replaced them with other brands. I would say that I am 98-99% satisfied with all my Festool purchases and the customer service. At the end of the day, I try to pick the tools that work best for me.

I wanted to add this, I have yet (knock on wood) to have any issues with my Kapex but I am worried about it given the large number of issues communicated on this site. The Bosch glide and vacuum seem like an interesting option.

Offline VW MICK

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2017, 01:19 PM »
kapex abused for about 2 years
cxs used alot, first drill i grab for most things
carvex barely used
ts55 abused most often used saw
ct26 turns on everytime kapex and ts55 is used
t18 used alot as well
of1400 not used much
domino df700 used a lot

So far ZERO issues with any of the power tools. The mft, stool, work center and all of the power tool accessories ive bought and used NOTHING broke yet and performed the way it was advertised. Been a very happy customer for 4yrs.


Ha ha I know every one hates this but plus one

Offline JimH2

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2017, 01:26 PM »
I’ve had two failures:  Pro 5 and Kapex. Both took about 2.5 weeks to resolve. I did not handle anything. I dropped the tools off at my vendor and everything was handled, so I’m thinking that is the way I will go if needed in the future.  I’m sad to hear of your troubles and I hope the very best for you.

Neither of these are a surprise.

Offline VW MICK

  • Posts: 881
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2017, 01:31 PM »
I have never had an idea to ditch Festool

I’ve just completed a build that I have posted and I enjoyed every minute of using my tools they are a pleasure to use and make my life easier

I honestly don’t think I could achieve the complexity and finish of my projects without Festool

I do have other brands for specific jobs wich I also post

MICK

Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2017, 05:14 PM »
Hi,
It’s been really interesting reading through the responses so far, some of you have had no problems, some of you a few problems and some like myself are fed up with the system and particular tools.
I’ve made a complaint to head office regarding the quality of certain tools I own and the poor customer service, I am now waiting for a response regarding this.
Despite contacting the head office 3 times to confirm details for collection it was still a messup.
For the premium price I’m paying I demand a level of service and quality, it’s clear to me it’s non existent.
I have sold the Kapex at a loss as it’s not fit for purpose and replaced it with a dewalt.
The bottom line is these tools should not be breaking so easily.
I have a Milwaukee drill set that’s 12 years old, still going strong and not once had a service or a breakdown. The pdc 18v lasted 6 months before the motor and gears were changed.
Anyhow that’s my bit for now.
Louis

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2017, 05:49 PM »
@Louis@Godfreysjoinery ,

I have read tons of customer service related posts here and I truly offer that yours is a mind-boggling one.  You have had several tool issues and then in the getting-the-tool-to-the-repair-facility-or-back-into-your-hands procedure you have had so many issues.  That is so totally wacky to me, a guy who lives 10+hours from a repair facility.

I originally thought that the whole carrier-pick-up-the-tool-and-deliver-service was so cool in the UK and other places but after reading your post I think that whole system is broken.

Obviously I don't have all the information nor do I have the perfect answer.

Peter

Offline Jim Kirkpatrick

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2017, 05:56 PM »
I wouldn't dream of ditching my Festools.  I must be living in the Bizarro world because I've had nothing but good luck with them.   Only problem I've had was a faulty switch in my CT33 dust extractor that I bought used in 2008.  To this day it is still going strong and sees daily use in my shop. 
Not to mention, what brought me to Festool was the dust collection.  I was ready to quit woodworking altogether because of the sinus problems I had.  Then I discovered their sanders.  Festool has kept me in the game and I am grateful.

Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2017, 06:11 PM »
@Louis@Godfreysjoinery ,

I have read tons of customer service related posts here and I truly offer that yours is a mind-boggling one.  You have had several tool issues and then in the getting-the-tool-to-the-repair-facility-or-back-into-your-hands procedure you have had so many issues.  That is so totally wacky to me, a guy who lives 10+hours from a repair facility.

I originally thought that the whole carrier-pick-up-the-tool-and-deliver-service was so cool in the UK and other places but after reading your post I think that whole system is broken.

Obviously I don't have all the information nor do I have the perfect answer.

Peter

....just to make it clear - the system in the UK is not broken.
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2017, 06:26 PM »
Phil, can you say where the disconnect lies ?

Is it at the local dealer level or the shipper ?  Or just one of those oddities that happens because of post code system? User error ?

Seems like this is the 2nd case of someone posting here recently that they've had trouble getting the UK system to work as intended.


Online Peter Halle

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2017, 07:07 PM »
@Louis@Godfreysjoinery ,

I have read tons of customer service related posts here and I truly offer that yours is a mind-boggling one.  You have had several tool issues and then in the getting-the-tool-to-the-repair-facility-or-back-into-your-hands procedure you have had so many issues.  That is so totally wacky to me, a guy who lives 10+hours from a repair facility.

I originally thought that the whole carrier-pick-up-the-tool-and-deliver-service was so cool in the UK and other places but after reading your post I think that whole system is broken.

Obviously I don't have all the information nor do I have the perfect answer.

Peter

....just to make it clear - the system in the UK is not broken.
Phil

Phil,

When I said broken it was about couriers who are not doing what they should be doing.  No different than when my mail service should be delivering to me in the normal timeframe and then it doesn't.

Peter

Offline yetihunter

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2017, 03:36 AM »
I threw my anemically thin diametered sleeved hose into the bin.
Does that count?  [big grin]

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2673
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2017, 07:16 AM »
Of all the comments here that made me sit up and take notice it was that of @Alex who has been such a strong Festool advocate here on the FOG for  many years.

In many ways he has also summed up the experience of so many here in Australia. Ref the Thread 'One for the Aussies'.

The issues of tool pick up in the UK and US certainly make me smile. I am sure many down here even cringe. The reason is that our 'Service All Inclusive' only offers repairs via dealer pick up. Imagine how that works for many working in remote and not so remote areas of Australia. My Premium Dealer is around 1hr 40 - 50 mins away.

I too have now probably purchased my last Festool. Not out of any great dissatisfaction with the tools themselves, rather I have reached a time when those I have should see out my productive life. Sure some may need replacement, but I can not think of any additional item within the current Festool range that I now need.

Still -  [big grin]
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 07:31 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2017, 08:27 AM »

Snipe.
 Perhaps festool should introduce a policy to replace any tool that doesn't get repaired within 10 days, or supply a replacement which is preferable. That would kill 90% of these rant threads.

This "crazy" idea may sound crazy but it could be the last thing Festool needs to earn back the trust of those who have had really bad encounters with its service.

When drastic measures like that are planned for, given the necessary resources and implemented, they send two messages, one externally and one internally. To outsiders, it means a determination on the part of the company to change things. Internally, the employees see an effort from the top to change the service culture and listen.

Such idea of giving a new tool to a customer after certain # days of a tool remaining unattended to is very powerful because it is costly if the new pledge is not met. Management will see the delinquency where it hurts.

Some companies make pledges about their service time, etc. I remember seeing a pledge at an airport where one airline (Alaska?) boasted that if you don't have your baggage ready after  x minutes of your deboarding, you will get your a discount coupon for your next flight or something like that.

It is a pity that Festool seems to be sitting on its hand and letting its service reputation damage or harm its manufacturing reputation as well as its overall company reputation. It should apply a bit of its innovation brilliance (the domino joiner, e.g.) to the work of revamping its service management. This must be an executive top-down initiative -- to be successful.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 321
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2017, 08:28 AM »
I've ditched a few lines along the way.  After "wasting" a cool grand or so on their cordless drills I decided that there's no sense in throwing additional good money after bad.  That was admittedly many years ago, but there's just so much better value elsewhere in my opinion.

Likewise, I gave up on their saws a decade ago with 3 successive "strikeouts" in the Trion, Kapex & the abominable rail jointing system of the TS55.

My SR5E extractor, 2 Duplex, Deltex & RO90DX sanders were nicked last year & won't be replaced either.  The RS1C sander will, however, as it's an excellent, powerful but crude workhorse that nobody else makes:  most half sheet sanders these days have <5mm orbits, making them much less effective for roughing work.  There's actually nothing wrong with the Deltex apart from being discontinued!  OK maybe the extra finger attachments of the (likewise discontinued) Bosch deltas make them a bit more versatile, but the Deltex was always a smoother running & more aggressive sanding alternative.

But the other sanders; the 2 Duplex in particular were just too slow in operation & the RO90 such an ill-mannered, evil handling little beast in any mode with coarse papers that I'm actually rather pleased to have them gone.  A new DEOS sander from Mirka should be a more effective small orbital than the slow linear action of the Duplex, despite the convenience of their shaped bases.  The smaller diameter version of the random orbit DEROS or the impeccable smoothness of the old SXE400 Metabo sanders will be much more ergonomic & easily handled than that awful little Rotex ever was

I'll keep my old Rotex 150 sander & CT22 vac going indefinitely, however.  I hate the newer ones, with their stupid unreliable plug-it power cords, proprietary bayonet pad mounting & weak, flimsy hose garages.  Just as long as parts are still available, I'll soldier on with these 2 gems, & look for a second hand Festo RS1C or maybe one of the short lived RS100Cs that have a fixed cord.

The old Rotex has a huge range of centre screwed Festo/ol, DeWalt, Metabo, Bosch & aftermarket sanding pads in standard 6 & 9 hole patterns plus a huge variety of multi-hole bases at much cheaper prices that allow the use of those fantastic mesh abrasives, plus hundreds of others from dozens of different suppliers.  The bayonet mounted pads of the newer Rotex sanders severely limit abrasive choice.

So for me it's a bit of a mixed bag.  There's 3 tools in particular that I admire & respect.  Reliable old "friends" that I won't ever willingly part with.  As for the rest of their range, well it's not really that anything in particular (apart from those woeful jigsaws, underperforming cordless range & that ridiculous small Rotex) that's actually bad.  It's just that many of the newer tools from some competitors are just so much better:  in design, performance, reliability & (subjective) value.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 809
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2017, 10:19 AM »
I'm keeping the ones I've got for now, and I even have one more on the wish list.  The number one reason is that I work in an enclosed shop and no other tools I've used handle dust as well as Festool (sanders, routers, saws).  The number two reason is that nothing else does what a Domino does quite as well or quickly.  The number three reason is the versatility of the MFT clamping system.  On that score the Parf Guide system (which I have used very successfully) and other similar jigs mean that Festool and CNC machines no longer have a corner on MFT style tops.  A lot of people are selling a nice variety of 20mm accessories now, so Festool doesn't own that market either.

I ditched a Festool 18V drill because I couldn't see what the value proposition was.  After I bought it, I kept reaching for my Milwaukee M12 for most shop chores, or my 20V DeWalt if I needed big boy power.  I'll probably never get a Festool jigsaw because I hardly use the ones I've got now.  A Kapex is out because it seems to be the poster boy for reliability problems -and- I've already got a Bosch in a dust collection hood that is well tuned.

That said, I am concerned about reliability over time.  My first Festool was a Domino 2.5 years ago, and I've already sent it and a cordless drill in for service.  That's a higher rate of failure than other brands I own, but the service experience in both cases was professional.  However, I'm starting to reach the end of warranty on my earliest purchases, and if my Festool tools continue to fail at more or less the same rate, I'm sure I'll start to buy alternatives.  For now I'm keeping what I've got.

So my suggestion is to be deliberate about what Festool tools you buy.  You're paying more for them, but there is more to value than just price and reliability.  Understand what they offer you, and balance that value against what you will pay for them.  I get a lot of information from other FOG users (thanks to all!) that goes into my decision making, but at the end of the day, I need to make the decisions based on what makes sense for my checkbook, shop, and patterns of work.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 10:23 AM by HarveyWildes »

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Offline Cochese

  • Posts: 300
    • The 144 Workshop
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2017, 11:42 AM »
Ditch? No. I like what I have. But I'm not really interested in much else, which is the bigger problem. Festool not only needs to expand the userbase, but keep the core buyers engaged as well.

I mean, a Rotex and the bigger Domino, and that might be all I ever do.

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 863
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2017, 12:18 PM »
The only tool I’ve thought about replacing is the TS55 and buy the Mafell.  Having the bigger motor of the Mafell is a big plus for me. 

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5175
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2017, 12:35 PM »
I have a lot of Festools...9 sanders, 3 routers, 3 track saws, 2 Dominos and the list goes on. At this stage I think only the Kapex, HKC, TSC 55 and OF 1400 have any of their original 3 year warranty left.

Over the years the only Festool problem I've encountered was one of the LED's in the SysLite Uni burned out. I filled out an on-line form and received a free shipping label within 15 minutes. I walked the package down to UPS the same day and 5 days later I received my repaired SysLite. You can't fault service like that. [cool]

I have replaced the Trion and the Carvex with a P1 cc and am contemplating replacing the TS 55 with a MT 55. Other than that...no, I'm not ditching Festool.  [big grin]

Offline sheperd80

  • Posts: 121
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2017, 10:39 PM »
I have at CT Midi, DF500, OF1010, ETS-EC 150/5, Pro 5, RO90, and TS55.
I love em all and dont see ever ditching the system. This set works very well for me. Might add a DF700 and another sander or router but thats it. The rest... kapex, carvex, vecturo, the drills, the mft, lr32 system... No thanks festool lol. Nice try though.

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Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1822
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2017, 09:20 AM »
I own a number of Festool tools and use them as needed. Right now I don't need any tools period (sad) but can't see any reason why I would sell any of them at this point much "ditch" Festool. They are all great tools.
Randy

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 788
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2017, 11:18 AM »
Hi,

Given the journey you've been through I understand how you feel, I have been there with other brands/services at some point you need to vent and then ditch it eventually to keep sanity.

That said, Festool has been quite the exact opposite experience for me in all regards, so I have zero reasons/plans to ditch any of my Festool tools. All of my Festool tools work like a charm and meet or exceed my expectations. I love working with them.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline McNally Family

  • Posts: 614
  • Festool Atomic Phaser Particle Blaster (APPB Set)
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2017, 02:16 PM »
Ditch Festool tools?  No way!

My wife would like me to ditch my Mafell habit, strictly due to purchase cost.  All she can see is the bottom line, and does not have an appreciation for the finer aspects of the tools.  Her eyes just cross when you try and describe the unique features of the Mafell tools, so if anything, my Mafell purchases make it easier for me to purchase more Festool tools.   

GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26  |  RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | SYS-Rock BR10 | Cordless Sander RTSC 400 Set |  Cordless Delta Sander DTSC 400 Basic | Linear Sander LS 130 | PDC 18/4 set | CXS  2.6Ah Set | Installer Cleaning Set (2018 version) |  New style Festool hose D 27/32 x 3,5m AS/CT | Replacement Hose Garage | Remote control CT-F I/M-Set | MFH1000 work stool | Next purchase: TBD

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2017, 03:14 PM »
Ditch Festool tools?  No way!

My wife would like me to ditch my Mafell habit, strictly due to purchase cost.  All she can see is the bottom line, and does not have an appreciation for the finer aspects of the tools.  Her eyes just cross when you try and describe the unique features of the Mafell tools, so if anything, my Mafell purchases make it easier for me to purchase more Festool tools.

Mine said (a while back)... don't spend any more on those Festools...
So I got a Lamello Zeta and a Mirka.

Their perspective on the value of tools seems to change if they get some pieces made from them... (just say'in)
On the horizon is the bathroom cabinet and some armoir units for the guest room. Which coincidentally translated into "the need" for a puck light jig.

Offline Arvid

  • Posts: 82
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2017, 07:35 PM »
I'm slowly ditching them. have two kapexes left and a drill. after those go no more. none of them were worth it. they didn't last any longer then any other tool out there for half sometimes a quarter the price.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3599
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2017, 07:46 AM »
No.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline chewy

  • Posts: 85
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2017, 04:42 PM »
Not ditch, but just have a much different opinion of them now. It's the reliability, quality control and short tool life that put me off. Fingers crossed it would fail within the 3 year warranty period, if not you're in for a hefty repair bill. Chances are the cost of repair would be enough to buy a similar tool from a well respected brand. Reading all the kapex issues was the final nail in the  coffin.

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Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 570
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2017, 11:33 PM »
Ditch Festool tools?  No way!

My wife would like me to ditch my Mafell habit, strictly due to purchase cost.  All she can see is the bottom line, and does not have an appreciation for the finer aspects of the tools.  Her eyes just cross when you try and describe the unique features of the Mafell tools, so if anything, my Mafell purchases make it easier for me to purchase more Festool tools.

Mine said (a while back)... don't spend any more on those Festools...
So I got a Lamello Zeta and a Mirka.

Their perspective on the value of tools seems to change if they get some pieces made from them... (just say'in)
On the horizon is the bathroom cabinet and some armoir units for the guest room. Which coincidentally translated into "the need" for a puck light jig.

No wife, but a nagging immediate family that seems to know my every expenditure.
I showed my mother and sister some US Makita marketing materials with the spandexed bimbos and then showed them a Festool catalogue with Kayleen McCabe working away with a rotex.   Long story short, they have never negatively criticised my Festool purchases since.  :)


Offline estley

  • Posts: 114
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2017, 10:49 AM »
ditching? no, I'm happy with pretty much all my festool purchases, except maybe the surfix, but then again, my ideal finish is one that applies itself, looks great, and requires no participation on my end.

however, I do a little more research on alternatives nowadays instead of just assuming that the festool offering is the best option out there.


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Offline Coen

  • Posts: 368
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2017, 11:42 PM »
Nope. Ditching to me means; taking a large upfront cost. And in this case I don't see any gains for me as the Festools I have have been doing just fine for me.

However, when looking for a new battery drill... the Festool prices just seem a bit "out there". And since the battery drills don't integrate into a giant system like the FS, MFT, CT, etc. ... I'm tempted to try something else. But then again I like the 90 degree and excenter chuck. Especially the later seems to be nowhere else to be found...

Offline bnaboatbuilder

  • Posts: 130
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2017, 11:58 PM »
Bosch Flexiclick does the same now, 90 degree angle attachment, offcenter as well for half the cost of the CXS set. I have both.

Nope. Ditching to me means; taking a large upfront cost. And in this case I don't see any gains for me as the Festools I have have been doing just fine for me.

However, when looking for a new battery drill... the Festool prices just seem a bit "out there". And since the battery drills don't integrate into a giant system like the FS, MFT, CT, etc. ... I'm tempted to try something else. But then again I like the 90 degree and excenter chuck. Especially the later seems to be nowhere else to be found...
- John

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 368
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2017, 12:11 PM »
Bosch Flexiclick does the same now, 90 degree angle attachment, offcenter as well for half the cost of the CXS set. I have both.

Nope. Ditching to me means; taking a large upfront cost. And in this case I don't see any gains for me as the Festools I have have been doing just fine for me.

However, when looking for a new battery drill... the Festool prices just seem a bit "out there". And since the battery drills don't integrate into a giant system like the FS, MFT, CT, etc. ... I'm tempted to try something else. But then again I like the 90 degree and excenter chuck. Especially the later seems to be nowhere else to be found...

Half the cost!? Huh? I was looking at T18+3 Set vs competition, not in the CXS / GSR12 range. The Flexiclick system with the 90 degree and excenter chuck seems to always come combined with the SDS chuck, for which I don't care at all. At that point the cost of the Bosch balloons to within 15% of the Festool, but has 24% smaller batteries and comes in an L-Boxx, which I can't stack with anything else. At that point...
However, the Bosch system is also available with an impact driver, in a set with 3 batteries (w/o the chucks) for less than just a Festool T18+3 Plus. And Festool doesn't have an impact driver at all at the moment.

I also wonder how the different brands have their switches. Having worked last week with a Metabo 14.4V (Li) from a few years ago, a new 18V (Li) Dewalt and my ancient Festool BPS 15.6 NiCD (with DIY rebuild battery) I found that only my Festool allowed very slow rotation. The other drills seemed to have a minium rotationspeed of like 120 rpm. My Festool was however... significantly heavier with the slowest top RPM. But unlike the Dewalt... the cilindrical chuck didn't need tightening every half hole.

Offline SoonerFan

  • Posts: 416
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2017, 09:31 PM »
I will not be ditching the brand anytime soon.  I have about a dozen Festools and started on the green journey about 4 years ago.  About half of my Festools are out of warranty and about half are not.  So far I have not had an issue with any of the tools.  My purchases have slowed because I have basically what I need and am just a hobbyist so not expecting any to wear out anytime soon.

I am very pleased with the accuracy and at least so far the quality.

Offline sospan

  • Posts: 27
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2017, 02:05 PM »
I am not ditching Festool - exactly the opposite more consolidating onto it.  I used to have routes from DeWalt, Bosh, Makita, Trend, Freud etc. I have replaced all these brands with a few Festool routers and life is much simpler.

The only problem I had was with a problematic Carvex jigsaw which was more down to an incompetent dealer and once Festool UK stepped in it was resolved in a day.

Indeed there is even a regional manager that will call on site should I have a problem or need a demo. There is much better support from Festool in the UK than any other brand I know of.   I don't know if it is available outside of the UK but we get theft replacement service which is very reassuring considering the value of the kit.

For me it is gradual process of selling my older tools and replacing them with the Festool equivalents - just need some good product promotions to speed up the process

Offline green fever

  • Posts: 172
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2017, 12:10 AM »
Okay guys here’s my response regarding service from Festool uk , my kapex 120 which was purchased 2013 had a problem I called service explained what the problem was I completed the online questionnaire regarding the fault , within 24 hours fedex came to my job site collected the saw within three days my saw was returned all the repairs carried out without charge New armiture , brushes & a service, my saw is well over a year out of the warranty period and Festool carried out all the work for free , so would I ditch Festool tools not a chance , what other company would even consider that ? Just a note I have a 2010 kapex that has carried out thousands of cuts and has never had a fault other than a blade guard which was caused by a piece of wood that was split and consequently thrown up into the guard that was repaired again by Festool at the time under warranty, I have used Festool services around 3 times since 2010 and my own personal experience with service has been excellent, the money I have invested in Festool tools is a testament in itself and where I can sympathise with your experience regarding repairs I have found Festool uk very helpful in my case, we as Festool owners expect the tools to last without having them constantly breaking down I hope that your tools are repaired and the recent bad luck is going to change, I can understand your frustration with the tools and the problems you have encountered but I’m sure phil & the service department will get you all sorted out , green

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5293
  • Does Anyone Know What Time It Is?
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2017, 12:42 AM »
@green fever

Good to see you posting again

Offline scholar

  • Posts: 123
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2017, 07:31 PM »
No, I am not thinking of ditching my Festool collection, but the question is thought-provoking.

I am an enthusiast woodworker and manyotherthingsworker – in many ways, my tool collection, whilst all pretty well used and mostly bought with something specific in mind, is a bit of an indulgence; that is, I draw some satisfaction from using tools that are nicely designed and made and, in the case of Festool, was attracted early on to the concept of the “system” and clean, dust-free working (which at the time was quite an innovation).  That is to say that I am not a professional who would more likely have to take a harder line on the economic equation and my tools do not take a hammering (if I was a pro, I would no doubt have the same weaknesses and make no money anyway).

I am in pretty deep and my Festool collection has built up inexorably:
-   My first purchase was a TDD12 drill with the Fastfix attachments which I thought revolutionary.  The build quality of this drill was exceptional – since sold and replaced with a T18+3 plus a TXS 2.6
-   Then a CentroFix set (since added to and now pretty complete)
-   Maybe at the same time, I got a RS400/DS400 sander, closely followed by a Rotex RO150 (since replaced with the newest versions – more about Cleantec adaptors later)
-   I used these with my Fein Dustex that I still have, but added a CT Mini and later a CT26E (with excellent reusable bag)
-   There followed a flurry of:
        -   TS75 plus assortment of guide rails, including the indispensable 3m rail
        -     Kapex - I got the MFT800, but found this a bit chunky and replaced it with the UG cart and extensions).  This was perhaps the first point I saw some imperfections in the Festool offering – I had, and still have, an Elektra Beckum Mitre saw.  It doesn’t have the (excellent) laser guide (although that was an option) or angle thingy of the Kapex, but the Elektra Beckum side extensions are miles better than the original Kapex extensions and the UG replacements.
         -      Domino DF500 etc
         -      OF2200 router, then OF1400 router; I then thought I should complete the set and replaced my trusty old Elu MOF96E router with a OF1010 – this has been a bit of a disappointment, not because there is much wrong with the OF1010, but the MOF96E was a fantastic machine, not least because it had a really good little benchtop router table that I miss a great deal.
-      At some point the Classic systainers were replaced with the T-Locs and I upgraded all of mine to the excellent T-Locs.  At the same time, I ditched all my Bosch L-Boxxes (extensive Bosch 12v collection) and various DeWalt boxes (extensive DeWalt 18V collection) and replaced with Tanos T-Locs with colour-coded latches.
-      I forgot to mention the BS105 belt sander and frame etc (an unbelievably capable tool)
-      Also, the HL850 planer plus bench stand
-      When the Domizilla DF700 came out, I “needed” this for some garage doors (again excellent machine)
-   A more recent infill is the BHC18 hammer drill (only enticed by the free battery offer), that I have yet to use properly.
-   Accessories accumulated include an LR32 set, parallel guides etc, a KAL light (good but poor battery performance), a DUO light (excellent), MFS 400 ++, various hoses and other bits and pieces.

I hope no-one has tried adding up the cost of the above – cost has not been the sole criterion (obvs!).  I do have more tools than I need, partly because my time (and some tools) are split between; two places, home and a family-owned, never-ending project.  The key question implicit in what the OP asked is what I would be happy to be without – for sure, I have other tools that could do the same jobs, other drills, a circular saw that can run against a straight edge, dust extractors, Lamello biscuit joiner and Zeta that will (mostly) do the job of the Domino’s etc etc; however, looking at my list, I have not identified anything I would rather replace with a competing product.

I don’t think that Festool is perfect – in the UK we know that the service function struggles a bit and I have mentioned a few flaws in some products.
I do think that Festool seems to have lost some of its distinctiveness as other brands have caught up.
I do have some frustrations with the product range, notably the seriously flawed (and misnamed) “Cleantec” adapters and the excessive wait for T-Loc fixing on the CT extractors. 
I do value my other-branded tools, notably Bosch,  DeWalt and Lamello.
I do place some value on the FOG as a source of information and inspiration, leaving aside on the one hand some over-exuberant evangelism and on the other hand some whingeing.

So, no, I am not giving up on Festool (but the competition is hot out there).

Just my experience and my thoughts, but thanks for getting me to think about it.

Cheers







« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 07:38 PM by scholar »

Offline BJM9818

  • Posts: 212
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2017, 11:57 PM »
I’ve dropped over $10k in new Festool stuff just this year and had a sizable collection before January. My first purchase was a RO150 and MIDI back in 2006.  Both those still are in working order.

I’m trying to systainerize all my non Festool tools and stuff. They make organization so much easier.


I lost the set screw for a Hilti 2 1/4” SDS core bits the other day.  They only sell the 6” centering pilot bit with the set screw as a package. $85.  That’s one 6” 3/8” bit and a Set screw.  Festool is a bargain after that.


Offline Coen

  • Posts: 368
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2017, 06:25 PM »
Except that Festool doesn't really have anything with SDS, besides that one battery hammer.

Protool used to have some wired hammers, but they seem to have disappeared completely.

Hitachi sells one in a Classic systainer.

Offline charley1968

  • Posts: 491
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2017, 09:00 PM »
Nope. All my Festools perform as advertised. As do my tool from other brands. I'm just one happy customer.
Just for today..

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 321
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #55 on: December 28, 2017, 11:40 PM »
Except that Festool doesn't really have anything with SDS, besides that one battery hammer.

Protool used to have some wired hammers, but they seem to have disappeared completely.

Hitachi sells one in a Classic systainer.

I firmly believe that Bosch is, was & probably will remain the kings in hammers of all varieties:  cordless, corded, sds +, max & even hex.  Some others are up there too.  Both Hilti & Makita make excellent bigger hammers, & Wacker Neumann certainly make the most powerful (3600w, 100+J) electric hammers in the business.

But nobody else has the depth of range in all categories as Bosch.  Not the power & performance edge.  Nor the price points either.  Whilst much of Robert Bosch's tool range leaves a little (or a lot) to be desired, their hammers rule.  All but the biggest should fit into Sys IIs, Midi or maybe MaxiSys/tainers.

FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Claimdude

  • Posts: 338
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #56 on: December 28, 2017, 11:47 PM »
I have a bunch of Festools and never had a failure. The thought of ditching the brand has never crossed my mind. There is a reaon there are multiple manufacturers though.... Different stroke for different folks!

Jack

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 368
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #57 on: December 31, 2017, 01:28 PM »
Except that Festool doesn't really have anything with SDS, besides that one battery hammer.

Protool used to have some wired hammers, but they seem to have disappeared completely.

Hitachi sells one in a Classic systainer.

I firmly believe that Bosch is, was & probably will remain the kings in hammers of all varieties:  cordless, corded, sds +, max & even hex.  Some others are up there too.  Both Hilti & Makita make excellent bigger hammers, & Wacker Neumann certainly make the most powerful (3600w, 100+J) electric hammers in the business.

But nobody else has the depth of range in all categories as Bosch.  Not the power & performance edge.  Nor the price points either.  Whilst much of Robert Bosch's tool range leaves a little (or a lot) to be desired, their hammers rule.  All but the biggest should fit into Sys IIs, Midi or maybe MaxiSys/tainers.

But Bosch doesn't sell them in a Systainer ;). So that tags on another €40.

Nor do they come with Plug-it, although with a hammer that might be less of a problem. Having said that; I used my planer (EHL 65) a few days ago, and it was the only tool with fixed cord, grr. New EHL 65's do have Plug-it though. I have the retrofit-kit, but I'm afraid that will just make it worse.

Offline HAXIT

  • Posts: 234
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #58 on: December 31, 2017, 02:14 PM »
Except that Festool doesn't really have anything with SDS, besides that one battery hammer.

Protool used to have some wired hammers, but they seem to have disappeared completely.

Hitachi sells one in a Classic systainer.

I firmly believe that Bosch is, was & probably will remain the kings in hammers of all varieties:  cordless, corded, sds +, max & even hex.  Some others are up there too.  Both Hilti & Makita make excellent bigger hammers, & Wacker Neumann certainly make the most powerful (3600w, 100+J) electric hammers in the business.

But nobody else has the depth of range in all categories as Bosch.  Not the power & performance edge.  Nor the price points either.  Whilst much of Robert Bosch's tool range leaves a little (or a lot) to be desired, their hammers rule.  All but the biggest should fit into Sys IIs, Midi or maybe MaxiSys/tainers.
To be king or queen, both will be fine. [big grin] Even though, Hilti and Makita with Bosch are very good and I have respect  for all of them, but I would never give up my Flex and Metabo for none of them including Festool. Cordless or corded.
Here is the latest Metabo with dust collector.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=LoLb_BOPQgY

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8647
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #59 on: December 31, 2017, 03:28 PM »
That on board DC is pretty cool!

Seth

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 321
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #60 on: December 31, 2017, 09:05 PM »
Except that Festool doesn't really have anything with SDS, besides that one battery hammer.

Protool used to have some wired hammers, but they seem to have disappeared completely.

Hitachi sells one in a Classic systainer.


I firmly believe that Bosch is, was & probably will remain the kings in hammers of all varieties:  cordless, corded, sds +, max & even hex.  Some others are up there too.  Both Hilti & Makita make excellent bigger hammers, & Wacker Neumann certainly make the most powerful (3600w, 100+J) electric hammers in the business.

But nobody else has the depth of range in all categories as Bosch.  Not the power & performance edge.  Nor the price points either.  Whilst much of Robert Bosch's tool range leaves a little (or a lot) to be desired, their hammers rule.  All but the biggest should fit into Sys IIs, Midi or maybe MaxiSys/tainers.
To be king or queen, both will be fine. [big grin] Even though, Hilti and Makita with Bosch are very good and I have respect  for all of them, but I would never give up my Flex and Metabo for none of them including Festool. Cordless or corded.
Here is the latest Metabo with dust collector.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=LoLb_BOPQgY

I've both owned & tried a few others along the way, too.  DeWalt Max 1500w, Metabo Cordless & Corded Plus, & an old Atlas Copco/Kango/Milwaukee.  Plus quite a few assorted Hiltis, Makitas, DeWalts, Milwaukees etc borrowed and tried out from suppliers, colleagues & employers.

There's a nice long-format 1700w Max combi hammer made in Germany & marketed as an AEG, Milwaukee & Metabo in their respective corporate colours.  It was for years the biggest, i.e. most powerful (I think) SDS Max hammer that still drills (52mm in solids, 150mm cores).  I'm actually on my third one now.  Bosch have a newly-released equivalent out now, too (GBH 12).  But its shorter L-frame chassis layout places too much bending effort on my ageing back for chipping/chiselling.  I like the longer ones for these tasks.

Always went back to the Bosch range 'though.  For me anyway, they just build a better mousetrap.  In each & every size range I required, from 5mm Hilti plug setting, dynabolting & loxton setting, mating new to old slab pours, through-boring cable access holes, chiselling & chasing to heavy demolition of slabs, my carefully selected range of Bosch hammers invariably worked best for me.  Admittedly some better than others, but that's hardly a valid criticism of a range that must have over 50 different variants!

The specs tell part of the story:  in each, size, wattage, cordless voltage, weight class the Bosch version tends to have the most outright power, punch & capacity.  Apart from the overall max & min capacities, their "sweet spot" also tends to be slightly wider too.  For intensive use, they also seem to have "better" vibration damping strategies than the competition.  As an industrial white finger sufferer with recurrent carpal tunnel issues, I take NVH performance seriously.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

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Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 147
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #61 on: January 01, 2018, 03:22 PM »
An ardent hobbyist woodworker for many years,
I’ve been a FOGer since 2007, when I took up with Festool.
As you can see be my “signature”, I’ve bought/own a lot of Festool products.
Early on, Festool QA was excellent, and I almost never had a reason to have a tool sent for service.
As the years have gone by, I’ve had more problems with Festool tools -
And Service has declined appreciably without “intervention from higher up”...
Not only in my own experience, but in reading the FOG over the last several years.
Eventually, the issue gets resolved, but not without increasingly discontentment with the Festool brand/company.
Example:
I really wanted to purchase the Kapex, and it’s assorted assessories.
$$ weren’t/aren’t an object. I’m retired and have the $$.
BUT... Having read about all the issues with the Kapex...
And read about - And personally experienced -
Festool’s Service’s seemingly continued unresolved problems -
I just decided to keep using my perfectly good/excellent -
Bosch 12 In. Dual-Bevel Glide Miter Saw.
I’ve made the same kinds of decisions about other Festool potential purchases.

ALL of these FOGers can’t be wrong in their consistent/ongoing assertions -
About the duel major issues of declines in Product Quality and Service.
One would assume, we are good willed, loyal Festool tool buyers/users;
Not simply a few malcontents.
In my opinion...
It appears that Festool has come to the point of working with -
A COST/BENEFIT (PROFIT) business paradigm -
Where they’re “trading” on “yesterday’s reputation” and quality -
While slowly letting Festool’s quality and service erode.
At the point that Festool’s SALES decline... The paradigm will change.
In the meantime... Faithful FOGers will continue to read the reviews -
Only buying from brands with tools that “measure up”.
Let’s hope that Festool changes the way they’re operating -
Before the current situation spirals “down the tubes”.
Think: SEARS ☹️
Regrettably,
Joe
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 07:30 PM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline Welshdog

  • Posts: 48
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #62 on: February 02, 2018, 01:53 AM »
My concern with Festool is their glacial product development and improvement cycle. Changes to existing products seem to be very infrequent and quite rare.  It's as if they think the first iteration of a tool is the best it can be and there is no need to continue improving or <gasp> fix problems that arise.  The hose garage for the dust extractors is a prime example.  There is no question three things were wrong with the design. 1) the wrong plastic was chosen. 2) the actual design of the garage is flawed with too thin plastic in places and a lack or reinforcement in critical spots. 3) complete failure to understand how normal human beings (not engineers) would use the product.  The domino is another almost orphaned product. Very few changes have been made and only a couple of flaws have been fixed.  As far as I can tell no significant functional improvements to the design have been made ever.  The MFT - does anyone believe, in the many years the current design has been sold, that there could not have been numerous improvements, added features and more accessories developed? Table sag, splinter guard peeling, finicky squaring are all problems that could have been fixed or improved upon.  How about a creative solution for working with small pieces of wood on the MFT - that would make me real happy.  People have mentioned the Plug-it problems.  I have never broken one, but it's pretty easy to understand how that would happen when you use one.  Too much plastic, too much force needed and too long a barrel adds up to a delicate part that can't handle frequent use. I can't remember which tool it is, but every time I attach or remove the Plug-it I cringe a bit because it feels like something is gonna give.  Someday it will, judging by all the reports.

Don't get the wrong impression. I like my MFT, my ATF 55, my CT36, my Domino, my Rotex 125, my OF 1400 and my Pro5. They are all good tools, generally perform well and do unique things.  But when other companies issue new tools with usable improvements every single year, you wonder exactly what it is they are doing at the Festool offices in Germany day in and day out.
DF 500, RO125, MFT/3, ATF55e, OF1400, CT36, Syslite, Pro 5

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 749
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #63 on: February 02, 2018, 02:47 AM »
i have tons. They perform as advertised. ill be sticking around.

Offline ChrisK1970

  • Posts: 578
  • Wicked Awesome
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #64 on: February 02, 2018, 08:08 AM »
I just bought a PDC and am HKC so I’m still pretty happy. Wouldn’t mind another syslite.
Dark Helmet.....Remember! Evil will always triumph over good. Because good is dumb!

Offline sospan

  • Posts: 27
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #65 on: February 02, 2018, 09:07 AM »
My concern with Festool is their glacial product development and improvement cycle. Changes to existing products seem to be very infrequent and quite rare.



Croeso

The problem for Festool is that they aren't a volume manufacturer like DeWalt or Makita and retooling presses and manufacturing takes a long time. We are now only seeing improvement to their extraction range which now includes quite a few changes to functionality, usability and overall design. Festool to bring quite a few tools to market but have also withdrawn quite a few over the last few years - sometimes in a puzzling way.  Festool's product lethargy is probably down to their self imposed ethos - if they can't improve significantly an existing tool then the don't bother.

On the whole I am impressed with Festool, they aren't tools to use out on site, I mainly use them in the workshop and use other brands outside.

Er gwaetha pawb a phopeth Ry'n ni yma o hyd  [wink]



Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 397
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #66 on: February 26, 2018, 11:23 AM »
Saw this today from former FOG poster Erock.  Interesting perspective.........

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 679
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #67 on: February 26, 2018, 11:26 AM »
I was glad to hear his explanation.  I had been very curious why he decided to move away from Festool.  I really enjoy his videos as well.
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

TS55, CT26, RO150, CXS, ETS 150/3, ETS EC 150/5, MFT/3, TS75, DF500, DTS400, OF1400, CT SYS

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 397
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #68 on: February 26, 2018, 11:45 AM »
I was glad to hear his explanation.  I had been very curious why he decided to move away from Festool.  I really enjoy his videos as well.

I will admit that his cabinet making videos were very well done and quite influential when I was deciding whether to get my TS55, MFT3, Domino and LR32 a few years back for a major cabinet making project.  I hope Festool management can listen objectively to his opinion as I think that would be a good thing.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 01:20 PM by Dick Mahany »

Offline McNally Family

  • Posts: 614
  • Festool Atomic Phaser Particle Blaster (APPB Set)
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #69 on: February 26, 2018, 11:47 AM »
While I also miss his posts, and wish he would come back, I feel compelled to point out that his explanation regarding multiple chargers being required with the introduction of cordless sanders is incorrect.  I purchased all three cordless sanders, and still only have one charger in my shop.  The batteries for the cordless sanders fit existing chargers.  The only real exception to this rule is with the CXS or TXS drill.  They require their own unique charger, which is why I have not purchased that model drill (I did win the 90year anniversary model, but keep it pristine as a collectable).

My hope is that Festool utilize the new battery in some other tool, sometime in the future (think Vecturo). 
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 11:51 AM by McNally Family »
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26  |  RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | SYS-Rock BR10 | Cordless Sander RTSC 400 Set |  Cordless Delta Sander DTSC 400 Basic | Linear Sander LS 130 | PDC 18/4 set | CXS  2.6Ah Set | Installer Cleaning Set (2018 version) |  New style Festool hose D 27/32 x 3,5m AS/CT | Replacement Hose Garage | Remote control CT-F I/M-Set | MFH1000 work stool | Next purchase: TBD

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline pettyconstruction

  • Posts: 452
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #70 on: February 26, 2018, 11:48 AM »
I don’t understand Eric’s stance. He is complaining about a change in the tools that he already has.
I could see it if he wanted a tool, and the saw had imperial and he wanted metric but he already had a TS 55 saw.
Seems like selling the car cuz it got a flat tire.
Charlie


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Offline TylerC

  • Festool USA Employee
    FOG Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 1054
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #71 on: February 26, 2018, 12:00 PM »
On the battery platform issue, I completely understand the desire to have a single battery that can work on everything. That's ideal. However, we think it's important to design the battery around the tool — not the other way around. In the case of the cordless sanders, the balance and ergonomics of the sanders would be really off if we used the existing 18 V batteries. While having a single battery is more convenient, it's not worth it if it requires us to compromise on the quality of the tool.

Offline LDBecker

  • Posts: 96
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #72 on: February 26, 2018, 12:59 PM »
I replied to Eric's video on YouTube because I appreciate his videos and what he does - I think he's leaving out the quality of service that you get with Festool verses what you get on cheap-as-possible, Chinese-made, disposable stuff. It may work for a while, but who are you going to take it to for repair? Home Depot? They, at least in the Los Angeles area, sent you to a little shop 30 miles away, and MAYBE in a month, you'll get your repaired tool back. Or not. The repair process on their own Rigid brand seems worse. With Festool - take it to whichever store I bought it from (Anderson Plywood or Woodcraft), and in a week or so it's back and working - even out of warranty stuff. I'm very happy and impressed with the quality of service and support from Festool.
On the issue of batteries/chargers - I personally have tried to standardize my batteries down to just one or two chargers - and I failed miserably. I have the 18v and TSX battery charger for Festool, a Milwaukee 18v charger - love their brushless metal bandsaw, SDS hammer drill, brushless grinder and sawzall, a Makita 18v charger (stapler, older hammer drill), and even a DeWalt charger (amazing level, and now Graco UltraMax handheld sprayer). Oh, and an Eco charger for my lawn blower, edger and soon their mower. I'm now getting more into handplanes - no chargers necessary for them, though I had to put together a sharpening station. It's all kind of fun, isn't it? I'm having a good time with it, and Festool is a big part of that.

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 790
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #73 on: February 26, 2018, 01:17 PM »
Eric is just going from brand loyalist/promoter/devotee/fanboy to simply...user. 

Being the former is about more than just liking or using the products - it's a personal alignment with the brand's design principles, philosophy, ethics, business practices, etc.  For the reasons he stated, they've lost him as a brand ambassador. 

In the grand scheme of things, that may not matter much, but I do think content producers like Eric have been helpful in growing Festool's customer base.

Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 682
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #74 on: February 26, 2018, 02:04 PM »

In the grand scheme of things, that may not matter much, but I do think content producers like Eric have been helpful in growing Festool's customer base.

Although my purchases of Festool products were made before I came across some of Eric's videos (via this Forum), I agree he was helping Festool through his videos. I know nothing about the youtube model and so if he benefited from his videos financially like other youtube video content producers, I don't know.

I am fine with the reasons he gave for his decision. I don't go with any one particular brand for my woodworking needs, except for one thing: all my handplanes (and most other hand tools) are from Veritas.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 02:07 PM by ChuckM »

Offline promark747

  • Posts: 459
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #75 on: February 26, 2018, 02:14 PM »
I agree with Eric on the imperial vs metric issue.  It was a slap in the face to those of us who adopted metric...and if I'm not mistaken, the tools' underlying mechanics (i.e., the racks or screws used for the scales) actually remain metric so the whole implementation is odd.

Regarding the price increase with lack of innovation/improvement, I think the new CT bluetooth modules are a good example.  If Festool had increased prices but added functionality, the price increases would be much easier to swallow.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5175
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #76 on: February 26, 2018, 02:34 PM »
On the battery platform issue, I completely understand the desire to have a single battery that can work on everything. That's ideal. However, we think it's important to design the battery around the tool — not the other way around. In the case of the cordless sanders, the balance and ergonomics of the sanders would be really off if we used the existing 18 V batteries. While having a single battery is more convenient, it's not worth it if it requires us to compromise on the quality of the tool.

Hey @TylerC
It would be very interesting to put together several cordless sanders using the conventional, heavy, hard edge, square Festool battery and bring them along on the roadshow for comparison purposes.  [smile]  Maybe some of the other Eric’s out there would change their mind.  [big grin]


Festool’s correct, design the battery around the tool.  [big grin]
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 05:14 PM by Cheese »

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2044
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #77 on: February 26, 2018, 05:04 PM »
I agree with Cheese the regular batteries would add unnecessary weight and skew the mechanics.  Brice's comments about the imperial/metric change is spot on however.  Festool probably should do more market research before another bonehead mistake like this.  As far as the battery platform business, I use Milwaukee 12 and 18v, Fein and Festool.  I use what ever platform works best.  For example, I have at least 95 systainers to store all my different tools and currently am looking at the new Milwaukee packout system for when I need to cart my stuff around jobsites.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2673
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #78 on: February 26, 2018, 05:31 PM »
I think Eric, for different reasons perhaps, is echoing an increasing dissatisfaction with Festool, THE COMPANY.  This dissatisfaction in increasingly echoed not only on the FOG but also social media.

With a few notable exceptions, Festool makes high quality well designed functional tools. I am not dissatisfied with most of my Festool purchases, although like others I have favourites.

No its dissatisfaction with the Festool the Company, in particular Marketing. Contributing factors are - Annual price rises world wide; in the US the metric/imperial debacle and in Australia - perceptions of price gouging, retail price maintenance, delayed product releases and a poorer version of Service All Includive.


Edit. Festool in Australia is imported by Tootechnic from Festool Germany.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 07:29 PM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Chance B

  • Posts: 44
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #79 on: February 26, 2018, 06:28 PM »
Eric's videos AND more importantly, his excitement and passion for Festool, were definitely an influence on me jumping into the Festool brand. I loved the organization and the "system" that he displayed. Let's be honest, he had quite the collection to show. While I don't necessarily agree with all of his decisions for leaving, I get some of his points for sure.

If people buy the best tool available and not just going for color matching, they are going to have multiple different brands in their arsenal. Festool doesn't make the best of everything. So, the battery excuse mentioned in the video, I just don't get. And, Bosch has an 18v and 12v battery platform as well with large lines in both. Right there, even within brands, their are multiple batteries to carry around.

I have quite a few Festools in my garage. Most I am happy with and would buy again. But, I would replace probably a 1/3rd of them if and when they fail with cheaper options. As good as the Kapex is (and I do think it's a great saw), if it blows up on me, I'm going back to my old faithful Dewalt for a 1/3rd of the cost. I believe I could buy a new Dewalt for the price of the repair bill.


Offline Ash Dash

  • Posts: 137
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #80 on: February 26, 2018, 09:19 PM »
Saw this today from former FOG poster Erock.  Interesting perspective.........
I Agree with EROCK. And I do use these tools for work.  65 systainers later.

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2515
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #81 on: February 26, 2018, 11:51 PM »
Everyone is entitled to a view and opinion. I think Festool does enhance/change tools. Perhaps not as quick as we like, but it happens regularly. Track saws have the 90 degree stop now and wear strips on the bottom sole which is nice. Batteries keep improving and the new hoses and Bluetooth is pretty cool. New saw blades and other things. They are not for everyone and no one tool company has everything nor is any company perfect. I like my Festool stuff and I also like my stuff from competing brands.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #82 on: February 27, 2018, 04:08 AM »
I really get Eric's response and I think I would have reacted the same way over "Imperialgate" ... Festool USA screwed that up big time. I personally have a gripe with Festool locally - TTS Australia in relation to pricing, new product availability and service. I'm not ditching my existing massive investment in Festool, but my new tool buying process no longer starts with "do Festool make one?".

I'll add that I'm getting a lot more comfortable with yellow tools [cool] [big grin]

Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 474
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #83 on: February 27, 2018, 05:24 AM »
If only the US of A had kept to their promise (made in the form of signing an international treaty more than a hundred years ago) to go metric — part of Eric's reasoning would have been moot. : )

That being said: he has a point about pricing, but one should not forget that Festool sold their tools in the US for far less than their prices in the rest of the world for years, probably to gain market share.
The prices are becoming more in line, esp. taking into account the cost of the USD in relation to EUR.

Also: he may have switched to Bosch for a lot of his tools, but still owns the FS *pearls*. And I wager he came out at almost zero cost, switching, on account of the worth of his FS stuff in the 2nd hand market.

Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

TS55 · TS55R · OF1010 · DF500 Mk2 · MFT/3 + TSB1-MW 1000 + VL + CMS TS55 + CMS PS300 + LA-CS 70/CMS · CTL Midi · RTS400 EQ · 2 x CXS Li 1,5 · T15+3 Li 4,2 · TI15 Impact Li 4,2 · Centrotec Sets 2008 + 2015 · PSB300 · LR32-SYS · RO150 · Kapex KS120 · 2 x MFK700 · RO90 · OFK700 · BS75 · OFK500 · OF2200 · CMS-GE … | Mirka 1230L P&C | Hammer A3 31 Silent Power · Hammer N4400 

Offline jonathan-m

  • Posts: 324
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #84 on: February 27, 2018, 05:39 AM »
On the battery platform issue, I completely understand the desire to have a single battery that can work on everything. That's ideal. However, we think it's important to design the battery around the tool — not the other way around. In the case of the cordless sanders, the balance and ergonomics of the sanders would be really off if we used the existing 18 V batteries. While having a single battery is more convenient, it's not worth it if it requires us to compromise on the quality of the tool.

I fully realize it's a knee jerk reaction, but it's something dear to my heart which has downgraded my experience with every tool i use, by a lot. Which is also why I'm very frustrated and upset with it.
That being said, why then did you compromise so darn hard on the new locking vacuum hose ends?

I'll just add, I'm not buying any more Festool that come with these new locking dust ports, they're simply horrible. You have a vacuum costing €500 or more attached to your tool and when you disconnect your hose a bunch of residual dust just falls out... no, just no!

Some people had issues with the hose disconnecting, well you should have simply improved the dust ports on a few of your tools.
What you have now is far worse.
For example the new removeable dust ports on the saws, half of the times when I attach my 7m hose the entire dust port just falls /breaks off the tool. The plastic twist connection is just too weak, they simply can't take the weight of a longer hose.

So in which way is the problem with hoses disconnecting from the saws solved by introducing this ingenious locking hose system? I never, ever had my hose disconnect from my saw in the past, now I have to be super careful with every cut so the entire dust port does not keep breaking off the tool half of the time and wasting my time trying to get to click the entire dust port thing back into my saws.
I also had the priviledge of buying a buch of useless new dust port connectors to hopefuly fix the problem but alas, it's simply a bad design!

So now you've introduced stiffer rubber connectors that are harder & more fiddly to connect, that also happen to leave residual dust every time you disconnect from just about ANY tool AND the dust ports now fall/break off your saws entirely.

So nothing has been fixed, in fact, it's gotten worse on all your tools. So please enlighten me and tell me how this improved the quality at all? Do you test your own equipment at Festool besides dust chambers, do you field test your own products on job sites? If so, then how are these issues not coming up? Judging by all the Kapex threads I'm now just waiting for my 1year old Kapex to fail... when it does, I'm totally done with Festool.

Festool gives it's users that special feeling allright, every time you walk up to your €1200 miter saw with the question, is this the cut that's gonna break it?

So in response to the Original poster, I'm guessing I for one do consider ditching Festool.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 06:37 AM by jonathan-m »
Festool: 2x MFT/3 // OF-1400 // MFS-400 & 700 // RO-90 // SYS-ROLL // VAC-SYS SET SE1 // CT-ASA CT 26/36/SB // KS 120 EB & UG-L & R //  VECTURO OS 400 EQ-Set  // DSG-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 FH // HK 85 EB // HK 55 EB
Protool: 2x VCP 260 LE AC // PDP 20-2
Mafell: MT55cc // P1cc // DD40P // Erika 85 Ec

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5175
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #85 on: February 27, 2018, 08:33 AM »
I'm with @jonathan-m on this one. The new hose connection is ridiculous. I figured I'd solve the issue by purchasing the last 5 original hose connectors that I could find. Well that didn't work out so well because the Pro 5 has the new bayonet mount dust port.  [eek]

This jumped out at me last week when I was doing some drywall sanding with an ETS EC 125/6" pad and the Pro 5. When I was finished, I placed both of them on the kitchen cabinet and walked away. When I returned to collect the 2 sanders the issue was obvious, there was a pile of drywall dust sitting under the Pro5 dust port. Here's a photo of the 2 sanders, it's pretty obvious what the problem is. [mad]

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 397
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #86 on: February 27, 2018, 08:43 AM »
I'm with @jonathan-m on this one. The new hose connection is ridiculous. I figured I'd solve the issue by purchasing the last 5 original hose connectors that I could find. Well that didn't work out so well because the Pro 5 has the new bayonet mount dust port.  [eek]

This jumped out at me last week when I was doing some drywall sanding with an ETS EC 125/6" pad and the Pro 5. When I was finished, I placed both of them on the kitchen cabinet and walked away. When I returned to collect the 2 sanders the issue was obvious, there was a pile of drywall dust sitting under the Pro5 dust port. Here's a photo of the 2 sanders, it's pretty obvious what the problem is. [mad]


Thanks for the photo.  I've read a lot about the reported problem but don't have any of the "new and improved" tool ports and so couldn't picture it.  That set up would be an absolute deal killer for me.  What a terrible design.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5175
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #87 on: February 27, 2018, 08:58 AM »
Thanks for the photo.  I've read a lot about the reported problem but don't have any of the "new and improved" tool ports and so couldn't picture it.  That set up would be an absolute deal killer for me.  What a terrible design.

Ya, and that's after it's already dumped some of its load on the counter top.  [sad]

Offline DrD

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #88 on: February 27, 2018, 09:12 AM »
I have posted several times about my displeasure and outright disgust with Festool Corporate, their pricing policies, lack of meaningful tool updates/accessories, etc. 

It has gotten to the point with me, that for a reasonable offer, I would ditch all my Festools.  It's not that I don't enjoy and appreciate the tools, but rather along the same lines as Eric (erock) I really don't like the company.

KS12 EB Kapex with Delta Folding Table & FastCap Best Fence; TS75 EQ with Parallel Guide Rail Set (FS-PA 495717 & FS-PA-VL 495718) and FS 800/2, 1080/2, 1400/2 LR32, 1400/2, 1900/2 Guide Rails, and Betterly SLC23 Straight Line Connector; DF500 Q with Assortment Systainer; OF1010 EQ with Fine Adjuster for Guide Stop, WA-OF Angle Arm, UP-OF Edging Plate and SF-OF Chip Deflector (486242); OF1400 EQ with OF1400 Dust Hood x 2, OF 1400  Edge Guide x 2, OF 1400  Guide Stop; LR32 Set; PSB399 EQ; EHL65 E; RAS115.04 E; RS2 E; ETS150/3 EQ; RO150 FEQ; Hand Sanding Block Set; CT26 with assortment of AS and Non-AS Hoses; MFT/3 Table x2; SysLite; Assortment of Quick & Screw Clamps, Consumables, Dogs.

Offline sheperd80

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #89 on: February 27, 2018, 09:58 AM »
I agree with those who say they like (some of) the tools but not the company. I researched festool for quite awhile before buying in, and i kinda knew what to expect. Theyre a profit machine that doesnt care what you think as long as the money keeps coming. Just look at the battery platforms, accessories, accessories for the accessories, kits, price increase etc.

Ive built a small system that works together well for what i do, and i never went off the rails and started buying festool everything. The goofy cordless drills never appealed to me in the least, nor the kapex, carvex, or vecturo. I need serious tools, not gimmicky toys. The mft sucks, but it inspired me to make an actual useable work table that cost less than $40 to make. The carts and ports and stuff... come on people... If you keep giving festool hundreds of dollars for plastic, theyll keep selling it.

So for me...No, im not ditching festool anytime soon. Im as hesistant to buy anything as i ever was and will add to my woodworking system as needed.

Festool makes precise, handheld woodworking tools with dust collection... thats ALL they make as far as im concerned.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 10:10 AM by sheperd80 »

Offline promark747

  • Posts: 459
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #90 on: February 27, 2018, 11:25 AM »

but one should not forget that Festool sold their tools in the US for far less than their prices in the rest of the world for years, probably to gain market share.
The prices are becoming more in line, esp. taking into account the cost of the USD in relation to EUR.


Agree with you on the first part, but the USD/EUR exchange rate has decreased substantially over the past several years, which in theory should have benefited people paying in US dollars.

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Offline egmiii

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #91 on: February 27, 2018, 11:28 AM »
For me, as a hobbyist, these tools are a luxury, not a necessity. If they do the job to my satisfaction, at a price that doesn't insult my intelligence (more and more this is happening), then I will continue to purchase new tools.

I was going to purchase the 2018 Midi, but given that it does not support the new Bluetooth module, I have decided to hold off. I can't understand why this functionality was excluded given the redesign, and price increase! If you add the capability a year from now, current buyers will be upset. If you wait 3-7 years for the next redesign, the fence sitters will be upset.

I purchased the module for my CT36. It's a huge feature in my opinion. Why would you handicap half your dust collection lineup? Corporate decisions like this are giving legitimacy to this thread and upsetting brand ambassadors like myself.

Offline JSlovic

  • Posts: 101
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #92 on: February 27, 2018, 12:14 PM »
I have to agree with Eric on some aspects of the annual price increases.
Here's an example- Red Bins for a systainer 498038- they were $15/ a dozen in 2013 they're now $19. 5% annually for 5 years for no apparent reason.

Offline Peter_C

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #93 on: February 27, 2018, 12:35 PM »
Festool has room to grow for sure. Market loss should be a good reason to start improvements. They can start with the guide rail attachments on the MFT/3!

Really the only Festool I wished I hadn't bought is my TS55 REQ, but instead purchased a Mafell saw and their rail system. Typically I run my routers against the backside of the rail so it wouldn't make a difference what brand the rails are for my Festool equipment. Actually my trusty old Festool OF2000 is a Mafell rebranded (Festool did come out the OF2200 which has a lot of improvements).

There are lots of tool brands to choose from today, especially when it comes to cordless tools. No one tool brand makes everything a person needs. Heck I have three types of batteries made by two manufacturers.

I saw Eric in another video using his new Bosch Colt and couldn't help but laugh. Why would anyone go seriously backwards? Not only does the Colt have an issue with the housing dropping, but it does an excellent job of spreading the cuttings everywhere, as shown in his video, and my picture below.

This was one of the last times I used my Bosch Colt, before replacing it with a OF1010. No comparison between the two is even possible.




Offline McNally Family

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #94 on: February 27, 2018, 12:44 PM »
My theory on the annual price increase has much more to do with keeping dealers happy, than anything else.  It takes a good hunk of change to maintain a decent size Festool inventory, and the fact the inventory goes up in value each year, helps justify the investment the dealer has made.  The banks don't pay anywhere near what the ever increasing inventory does....
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26  |  RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | SYS-Rock BR10 | Cordless Sander RTSC 400 Set |  Cordless Delta Sander DTSC 400 Basic | Linear Sander LS 130 | PDC 18/4 set | CXS  2.6Ah Set | Installer Cleaning Set (2018 version) |  New style Festool hose D 27/32 x 3,5m AS/CT | Replacement Hose Garage | Remote control CT-F I/M-Set | MFH1000 work stool | Next purchase: TBD

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline Svar

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #95 on: February 27, 2018, 12:49 PM »
This was one of the last times I used my Bosch Colt, before replacing it with a OF1010. No comparison between the two is even possible.
Not a fair comparison. Try using OF1010 without dust collection. Bosch does sell DC attachment for Colt.

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 725
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #96 on: February 27, 2018, 12:58 PM »
Not a fair comparison. Try using OF1010 without dust collection. Bosch does sell DC attachment for Colt.
Wait until your Bosch Colt drops the bit on a $650 piece of Corian. F$*(#D This is a known issue.

I stand by no comparison. (And yes the housing was tight.)

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 397
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #97 on: February 27, 2018, 01:10 PM »
This was one of the last times I used my Bosch Colt, before replacing it with a OF1010. No comparison between the two is even possible.
Not a fair comparison. Try using OF1010 without dust collection. Bosch does sell DC attachment for Colt.

Not trying to go off topic, but couldn't resist............Dust extraction on my Bosch Colt with my Festool  CT36 is excellent and the 27mm hose fits perfectly.  Now, back to the matter at hand [smile]


Offline Master Carpenter

  • Posts: 91
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #98 on: February 27, 2018, 01:18 PM »
I don't know why people take the annual price increase as a negative. With used Festools often selling for 80% of new value, after a few years of ownership you can sell them for what you paid. Not too many products out there right now like that.

I do understand that Festool needs to maintain the highest level of perceived quality for this to continue to happen. Nobody pays BMW money for a KIA, new or used. I like that my collection increases in value every year.

Festool ABSOLUTELY needs to maintain perfect customer service and deal with any "tool issues" impeccably.
Ts 55, Ts 75, of 1010, lr 32, mft, mfs 700, RO 150 x2 + paper asort, RO 90 + paper asort, pro 5, df 500 + dom asort, hl 850 e, ti 15, t18, cxs, centrotec set, ct48, ct sys, vac sys, 32;55x2;118 tracks, a stack of sys and an og festool first aid kit. Kapex, planex, carvex, conturo.

Offline RustE

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #99 on: February 27, 2018, 01:53 PM »
I don't know why people take the annual price increase as a negative...


Because it is more than my salary goes up some years.  The prices of the tools that I do not own quickly get out of reach.

Very rarely do I sell tools, so resale value is not much of a consideration when buying.  The reason I bought some Festool items was because of features and overall quality.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 682
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #100 on: February 27, 2018, 02:59 PM »
I like that my collection increases in value every year.

Festool ABSOLUTELY needs to maintain perfect customer service and deal with any "tool issues" impeccably.

Me, too. That was why I got a bit disappointed when they did not jack up the price for the Kapex this year!

The resale value of a pricey item is always part, though not a very big one, of my purchase consideration, because it somehow reflects the value of the item. When I buy a new car, I like to know how the resale market looks at the different offers, not necessarily that I plan to resell my car any time soon. 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 03:02 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Paddyfin1

  • Posts: 92
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #101 on: March 03, 2018, 03:07 PM »
I won’t ditch my Festool gear, but I am looking at other manufacturers for future tools as I feel that Festool have become lazy in its R&D compared to the likes of metabo that seem to be gunning for everyone with some great products and an R&D department that is actually listening to its customers

Offline Carl Ommert

  • Posts: 4
Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #102 on: May 29, 2018, 07:12 PM »
Sorry to hear about your issues. I sent my Rotex 125 in last week as the variable speed stopped working. The sander is not frequently used. I was informed I also needed bearings and everything was going to be $368.00 Canadian dollars plus tax. The conversation I had with my Festool dealer is too long to go into, but they will not repair the variable speed unless they repair everything. I am not at all happy about this. I have spent thousands of dollars on Festool and use it for work.
I could see if the sander had heavy use but it does not. They did get the repair price down to $308.00 plus tax but I am still not impressed with a high end tool failing after such light use.
I have Makita tools that take daily heavy use and never had an issue.

Carl

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #103 on: May 29, 2018, 07:31 PM »
So the repair cost would be about 50% of your purchase cost.

I would not spend that kind of money (in terms of %) on repairs. One of my SUVs (year 2003) still has about a market value of $7000Cdn left. I recently spent $550 Cdn (after a COSTCO cash rebate) on a new set of tires that are expected to outlast its remaining life of another 5 to 8 years. Would I spend $3,500 on it to fix any unexpected single repair? Fat chance. I would use that money towards a new SUV. Often, new SUV discounts of $2,000 to $3,000 are offered in promotions and that means I could save five to six thousand dollars in a new purchase.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 07:42 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Anyone considering ditching Festool tools?
« Reply #104 on: May 30, 2018, 07:38 AM »
So the repair cost would be about 50% of your purchase cost.

I would not spend that kind of money (in terms of %) on repairs. One of my SUVs (year 2003) still has about a market value of $7000Cdn left. I recently spent $550 Cdn (after a COSTCO cash rebate) on a new set of tires that are expected to outlast its remaining life of another 5 to 8 years. Would I spend $3,500 on it to fix any unexpected single repair? Fat chance. I would use that money towards a new SUV. Often, new SUV discounts of $2,000 to $3,000 are offered in promotions and that means I could save five to six thousand dollars in a new purchase.

That, and especially if you don't use the sander that often. Don't even replace it and save the money on a nice diner with the lady  [big grin]
Mario