Peter Parfitt
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« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2012, 01:36 AM » |
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For larger circles the Parf Dog as a trammel point is the answer - it is tough and does not move under pressure.
Peter
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Reiska
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« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2012, 06:17 AM » |
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Update: Tried the S 75/4 FSG blade on a slightly smaller circle (37cm) on the same piece of board with a lot better results. This blade actually cut mainly square (it's about 1.5x the thickness of the S 75/2.5) and kept with the curve fairly well. My only gripe with this blade is that the cut quality isn't anywhere near "finish ready" with lots of splintering going on so once I get a replacement board I guess I'll have to use this setup for a rough cut at about 39cm and then rig my router to come in for the last 10mm and hope that it'll be enough safety zone to avoid splinters. Or should I try to tape the edge with blue tape just in case? I guess it's off to the plywood store to get some router base jig material and figure out how I can attach a jig like this trammel thing onto my OF1400 base... And check that I have a long enough straight router bit to trim the 28mm edge in one pass (not totally sure about that even thou I do have multiple straight bit otherwise). On a related note: What's the point of the other gazillion Festool blades since they are too thin to stay square when in the Carvex so why isn't there a fine finish blade which is meant for cutting tight curves and be thick enough to stay square through the piece at the same time? Has anyone dared to try if the Mafell Cunex blade would fit somehow into the Carvex blade holder? If I read the Festool blade guide pictograms correctly then only the three different lenght S75/105/145/4 FSG blades and the S75/4 FS are for cutting squarely and only the FSG blades and the S 50/1.4 K are meant for cutting tight curves? I can understand the different blade geometries are meant for different materials like metal or plastic, but if the blades wonder to random angles sideways while cutting they are worthless in my opinion. What does the black icon mean in the S 50/1.4 K blade 'specialities' column?
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Peter Parfitt
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« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2012, 07:17 AM » |
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Reiska
If you are going to finish off with the router you need to plan how you will guide it around the circle - forgive me if I am teaching you to suck eggs.
Peter
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Kapex 120, OF 2200, OF1400, TS55, TS55R, CMS-TS55R, PSC420, Domino 500, MFT3, Rotex 90, Rotex 150, CTL26, 1400 & 2700 Guide Rails and a lovely watch Wish List: C15, HL850, BS75, DF700, Second Extractor, new secretary
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Kev
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« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2012, 07:33 AM » |
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Update: Tried the S 75/4 FSG blade on a slightly smaller circle (37cm) on the same piece of board with a lot better results. This blade actually cut mainly square (it's about 1.5x the thickness of the S 75/2.5) and kept with the curve fairly well. My only gripe with this blade is that the cut quality isn't anywhere near "finish ready" with lots of splintering going on so once I get a replacement board I guess I'll have to use this setup for a rough cut at about 39cm and then rig my router to come in for the last 10mm and hope that it'll be enough safety zone to avoid splinters. Or should I try to tape the edge with blue tape just in case? I guess it's off to the plywood store to get some router base jig material and figure out how I can attach a jig like this trammel thing onto my OF1400 base... And check that I have a long enough straight router bit to trim the 28mm edge in one pass (not totally sure about that even thou I do have multiple straight bit otherwise). On a related note: What's the point of the other gazillion Festool blades since they are too thin to stay square when in the Carvex so why isn't there a fine finish blade which is meant for cutting tight curves and be thick enough to stay square through the piece at the same time? Has anyone dared to try if the Mafell Cunex blade would fit somehow into the Carvex blade holder? If I read the Festool blade guide pictograms correctly then only the three different lenght S75/105/145/4 FSG blades and the S75/4 FS are for cutting squarely and only the FSG blades and the S 50/1.4 K are meant for cutting tight curves? I can understand the different blade geometries are meant for different materials like metal or plastic, but if the blades wonder to random angles sideways while cutting they are worthless in my opinion. What does the black icon mean in the S 50/1.4 K blade 'specialities' column? Your confusion over Festool jigsaw blades is making me feel a lot less stupid!
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Festoolfootstool
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« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2012, 09:00 AM » |
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Update: Tried the S 75/4 FSG blade on a slightly smaller circle (37cm) on the same piece of board with a lot better results. This blade actually cut mainly square (it's about 1.5x the thickness of the S 75/2.5) and kept with the curve fairly well. My only gripe with this blade is that the cut quality isn't anywhere near "finish ready" with lots of splintering going on so once I get a replacement board I guess I'll have to use this setup for a rough cut at about 39cm and then rig my router to come in for the last 10mm and hope that it'll be enough safety zone to avoid splinters. Or should I try to tape the edge with blue tape just in case? I guess it's off to the plywood store to get some router base jig material and figure out how I can attach a jig like this trammel thing onto my OF1400 base... And check that I have a long enough straight router bit to trim the 28mm edge in one pass (not totally sure about that even thou I do have multiple straight bit otherwise). On a related note: What's the point of the other gazillion Festool blades since they are too thin to stay square when in the Carvex so why isn't there a fine finish blade which is meant for cutting tight curves and be thick enough to stay square through the piece at the same time? Has anyone dared to try if the Mafell Cunex blade would fit somehow into the Carvex blade holder?
If I read the Festool blade guide pictograms correctly then only the three different lenght S75/105/145/4 FSG blades and the S75/4 FS are for cutting squarely and only the FSG blades and the S 50/1.4 K are meant for cutting tight curves? I can understand the different blade geometries are meant for different materials like metal or plastic, but if the blades wonder to random angles sideways while cutting they are worthless in my opinion. What does the black icon mean in the S 50/1.4 K blade 'specialities' column? Your confusion over Festool jigsaw blades is making me feel a lot less stupid! I looked at my cunex blades this morning and it has extra thickness where it fits to the machine I guess it has been engineered this way as to not fit other brands I only have the p1cc so I cant actually try for fit in anything else
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If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......
Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?
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Reiska
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« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2012, 09:07 AM » |
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If you are going to finish off with the router you need to plan how you will guide it around the circle - forgive me if I am teaching you to suck eggs.
No offence taken Peter, I haven't done this with a router before so I'm all ears for suggestions  Reading your previous post I envisioned a strip of thin ply that has centered 5mm holes at suitable distances that are happenstance the same size as the Core jig pin  and the other end would be the shape of the OF1400 bottom and holes to attach it to the router as a "base plate". Just haven't been able to look at the routers base plate to see how it is screwed/attached to the router. I'm expecting to then be able to run the full circle with the router effectively at the 'end of a rod' so to speak. I'm mostly unsure how to keep the piece in place since can't really clamp it from the sides with the clamping element nor putting a clamp in the middle is going to work much better since I'm routing all around it. Wonder could the routing be done in multiple segments of the circumference without too bad burning/misalignment and rotate the board one segment at a time? The only solution that I've come up with the possibility to doing continuous circle is some sort of a stand that's clamped to the table and has something similar material on it like the anti-slip rubber of the guide rails or some sort of a vacuum clamp. Unfortunately I don't have a vacuum clamping system nor the materials to build such a anti-slip stand either. Another question about using a router for this sort of edge trimming is that should I use a straight bit or a spiral cutting bit (up or down)? Does it make a big difference in the finish quality?
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2012, 09:30 AM » |
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I'm mostly unsure how to keep the piece in place since can't really clamp it from the sides with the clamping element Double-sided tape works well. I would also use a downcut-spiral bit and a sacrificial surface underneath as a sort of splinter guard. If you tape the sacrificial piece to the work surface and the work piece to the sacrificial piece (inside and outside of the proposed circle), you should be secure enough for the operation. Tom
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Peter Parfitt
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« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2012, 09:53 AM » |
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Reiska
Toms last post is good advice but make sure that the tape is doing the job before you find out the hard way.
As you are trying to make a hole for a round sink - might there be a lip to the edge of the sink to hide the few mm near the hole? That would give you some wiggle room.
You could use the piece of wood that you have ruined as a base piece.
Fix the new piece of wood to your base piece. At the centre (of the sink) make a hole all the way through your new piece into the base piece - that way when you come to the end of your circle the trammel is still fixed at the centre (of the base piece).
Cut the hole using your trammel taking care at the very end when the plug in your new piece is free to move if the double sided tape has failed.
You could use some thin nails through your nice piece of wood (at the edges and in the centre) into the base piece and fill the holes later.
Spiral bit is good. Do the cut in stages if your meet too much resistance.
Peter
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Kapex 120, OF 2200, OF1400, TS55, TS55R, CMS-TS55R, PSC420, Domino 500, MFT3, Rotex 90, Rotex 150, CTL26, 1400 & 2700 Guide Rails and a lovely watch Wish List: C15, HL850, BS75, DF700, Second Extractor, new secretary
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Jeff2413
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« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2012, 04:06 PM » |
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I have the same saw. It's a joke really. My 18v Makita cuts much better and cost $200. My $100 cordless Dewalt cuts better. My Bosch cuts just as well. Only reason I haven't sold it is it's convenient switching cords between tools and I don't wanna screw the poor dude making the purchase. It's at best a $125 saw. And yes I own many green tools. Just not impressed with this one.
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2012, 04:08 PM » |
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You have a Carvex?
Tom
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jmbfestool
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« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2012, 04:35 PM » |
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ummmmm..................
ill make a video the way I make circles on site quickly. I have some plywood only so I know if your using solid wood you do have grain to contend with but you just go slower and make sure you have a sharp cutter.
Thing is I am making a circle out of ply wood you can use the circle plywood as a template as another method to cut your circle out your main piece if you wanted to instead by just simply clamping or screwing the ply piece on your work piece and then using a coping cutter to trim your piece down you first simply place your circle template on top then mark round with your pencil then free hand with your jigsaw cut 5-10 mm away from you line or as close as you dare to go make sure no wondering blade goes further past and then place your ply template back on and using your router trim back.
Any way ill post a video in a 10 mins wont take me long to make a circle.
JMB
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jmbfestool
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« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2012, 04:38 PM » |
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galwaydude18
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« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2012, 04:46 PM » |
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Christ JMB that's some collection of Festool tools 
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jmbfestool
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« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2012, 04:49 PM » |
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Christ JMB that's some collection of Festool tools  lol No joke you can only see a 35-40% of it in the video  JMB
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« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 04:51 PM by jmbfestool »
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galwaydude18
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« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2012, 04:57 PM » |
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When you get board of them I'll take them off your hands and talent very good care of them caus I'm too poor to buy any festool these days 
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Reiska
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« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2012, 05:02 PM » |
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Thanks JMB - that's pretty much what I was planning on doing based on what Peter wrote above.  Peter: Just to correct a slight misunderstanding in a previous message of yours - I'm not making a hole in the table top for a sink but a cover to the existing sing that's in the camper van. The sink has an internal lip where the cover will seat (top inside diameter 38cm and lower parts inside diameter 35,7cm). When the cover is in place it will double as a cutting board/table surface next to the gas hobs. I was looking at my router tonight after work and there are two screw holes (M6?) in the bottom of the OF1400 baseplate - could these be used for the attachment of the plywood trammel since the 1400 doesn't have the conveniently detachable baseplate of the 2.2k?
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The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. 
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Alan m
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« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2012, 05:10 PM » |
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that detachable base plate looks reaaly handy for jigs like this. i wish the other routers were like that.
reiska, i would drill a 30mm (or other guide bush size but the 30mm is standard in the box) in the jig and the router can rotate about it in the hole.
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now ts 55+2 1400 rails+ 1 lr32 1400 rail, domino+assortment systainer+ domiplate, ct 22 with boom arm+home made thien baffel, lr32 set, rotex 150, home made MFT,home made work center, 6 t locs for other tools, of2000 , ro 90, mft 800, trion , ls 130 wish list of 1400, MFT 3,, even more t locs for other tools
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
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jmbfestool
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« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2012, 05:20 PM » |
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that detachable base plate looks reaaly handy for jigs like this. i wish the other routers were like that.
reiska, i would drill a 30mm (or other guide bush size but the 30mm is standard in the box) in the jig and the router can rotate about it in the hole.
yeah it is dude! Brilliant! Love it makes me actually want to use the CMS with out the detachable base I wouldnt bother with the CMS just pain in the arse. I hardly used it before but now I use it loads more. I think sometimes festool dont try and make stuff site friendly even though its suppose to be portable but dont know about you but I dont like carrying a box full of bits and pieces which take 5-10 mins to screw together to then be taken apart and most likely loose something on a job. JMB
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Reiska
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Hackers build things, Crackers break them.
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« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2012, 05:52 PM » |
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reiska, i would drill a 30mm (or other guide bush size but the 30mm is standard in the box) in the jig and the router can rotate about it in the hole.
Excellent idea and makes the making the jig that much easier - I wish I had already pulled the trigger on getting those fancy Forstner bits... I guess this is a gig for the old adjustable holesaw...
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The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. 
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Peter Parfitt
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« Reply #49 on: August 11, 2012, 01:00 AM » |
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Thanks JMB - that's pretty much what I was planning on doing based on what Peter wrote above.  I was looking at my router tonight after work and there are two screw holes (M6?) in the bottom of the OF1400 baseplate - could these be used for the attachment of the plywood trammel since the 1400 doesn't have the conveniently detachable baseplate of the 2.2k? I imagine that the OF1400 base plate is like that - I made up my trammel by screwing my trammel are to the base of my OF2200. I think that JMB's solution, with the spare base mounted on the trammel, is brilliant and an excellent way to go if you expect to do more than one. It is interesting, we have a round top to the sink in our motorhome. On the underside it has plastic so that it can be used as a chopping board. Peter
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Kapex 120, OF 2200, OF1400, TS55, TS55R, CMS-TS55R, PSC420, Domino 500, MFT3, Rotex 90, Rotex 150, CTL26, 1400 & 2700 Guide Rails and a lovely watch Wish List: C15, HL850, BS75, DF700, Second Extractor, new secretary
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Deansocial
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« Reply #50 on: August 11, 2012, 03:58 AM » |
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I just drill a hole in a scrap of ply and drop the guide bush in. Done holes as smal as 76mm this way. Built this using that method too 
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Peter Parfitt
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« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2012, 04:16 AM » |
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Dean - I did the 49mm hole for this clock that way...
Peter
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Kapex 120, OF 2200, OF1400, TS55, TS55R, CMS-TS55R, PSC420, Domino 500, MFT3, Rotex 90, Rotex 150, CTL26, 1400 & 2700 Guide Rails and a lovely watch Wish List: C15, HL850, BS75, DF700, Second Extractor, new secretary
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Deansocial
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« Reply #52 on: August 11, 2012, 04:40 AM » |
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For a hole as small as that i would cut a 54mm hole in ply then use a 17bush with a 12mm cutter and run it around
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Peter Parfitt
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« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2012, 04:59 AM » |
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Oops - no I did it this way - I think!
Peter
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Kapex 120, OF 2200, OF1400, TS55, TS55R, CMS-TS55R, PSC420, Domino 500, MFT3, Rotex 90, Rotex 150, CTL26, 1400 & 2700 Guide Rails and a lovely watch Wish List: C15, HL850, BS75, DF700, Second Extractor, new secretary
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Reiska
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« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2012, 11:46 AM » |
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Neat shelf Dean 
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The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. 
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richard.selwyn
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Normandy, France
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« Reply #55 on: August 23, 2012, 01:47 PM » |
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"When our engineers sit down to design a new tool, they don't aim for mediocrity. Only the finest engineering, design, components and finish result in a tool worthy of the Festool name."
Must be talking about the Carvex. Was working for some Germans on their holiday home here in France today and he saw me getting angry. When I explained it was the Carvex, again and that I'd left my Bosch in the workshop he said "Yes we make rubbish in Germany sometimes too."
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Reiska
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« Reply #56 on: August 23, 2012, 03:25 PM » |
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Thanks Peter & JMB for the hints - got the lid done nicely with my router and it turned out that when I made the trammel long enough to have a "counter rotation handle" on the other side of the trammel point the work piece stayed happily still without any clamping or taping.  And a couple of pics of it in the campervan:  
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The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. 
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Alan m
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« Reply #57 on: August 23, 2012, 03:46 PM » |
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very nice reiska. much better than using a jigsaw
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now ts 55+2 1400 rails+ 1 lr32 1400 rail, domino+assortment systainer+ domiplate, ct 22 with boom arm+home made thien baffel, lr32 set, rotex 150, home made MFT,home made work center, 6 t locs for other tools, of2000 , ro 90, mft 800, trion , ls 130 wish list of 1400, MFT 3,, even more t locs for other tools
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
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galwaydude18
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« Reply #58 on: August 23, 2012, 03:55 PM » |
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Very nice. You were always going to need to use a router anyhow to make the rebeate. 
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Reiska
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« Reply #59 on: August 23, 2012, 04:46 PM » |
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Yes, I just originally thought that I could do a perfect circle with the jigsaw and then do the rebate with a bearing router bit... This way done the making of the whole lid including sanding & finishing took about ½ of the time to do the jig 
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The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. 
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