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Author Topic: Domino DF500 & DF700 XL conflicting scale types  (Read 1908 times)

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Offline sdes

  • Posts: 21
Domino DF500 & DF700 XL conflicting scale types
« on: May 11, 2018, 08:48 AM »
Let's start with the good bit; I'm lucky enough to have both a Festool DF500 and the DF700 XL Domino jointing machines - but that is sort of what lead to this issue.

Switching from the DF500 to theDF700 XL the other day, I selected the "material thickness" to match what I was using on the slider that gives indexed depth stops, as I would on the DF500, whizz, whizz, 20 seconds later, two holes. Arrrrghhhh, Not in the middle of the material as they would have been with the DF500 but two open-sided cuts half in and half out the bottom edge of the wood. See photo for results!

So, if it were two different companies making a similar tool, I would understand two different logics for what the scale shows, but can anyone shine any light on why Festool followed the "material thickness" protocol for the DF500 and the "cutter centre from reference surface" for the DF700 XL?

Makes zero sense to me, I'm now aware of it obviously, but a waste of time and material as my "lesson in Festool logic".

Any thoughts why they would use two different protocols?279465-0

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Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3573
Re: Domino DF500 & DF700 XL conflicting scale types
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2018, 09:08 AM »
There isn’t a “material thickness scale” on the Domino machines. That vertical scale on the fence indicates the location of the center of the mortise relative to the folded down fence surface.

The results in your photo are perfectly predictable since one of your fences is set to twice the distance as the other. There is no correlation between the plung depth and mortise distance.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 635
Re: Domino DF500 & DF700 XL conflicting scale types
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2018, 09:58 AM »
I have used both the DF500 & DF700 before, but have not made the "mistake" you share here. Probably because of luck!

The DF500 manual uses "height gauge" and "board thickness gauge" while the DF700 simply the "scale" and "selection slide" respectively. In the case of the DF700, the height set is the distance between the bottom of the fence face and the centerline of the mortising bit, which has nothing to do with the thickness of a board, unlike the DF500's board thickness gauge.

Indeed as your experience showed, the two systems of setting the fence height can be confusing to users who operate mostly one of the joiners and then opt to use the other one without noticing or remembering the difference in the two fence height systems.

Any comments from the Festool reps on this?

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3573
Re: Domino DF500 & DF700 XL conflicting scale types
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2018, 10:47 AM »
I bought the 500 soon after it was introduced and I never noticed that it had something called “board thickness gauge”. It’s possible I never read the manual. Festool manuals are notoriously poor. I learned everything about the tool from the FOG.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1810
Re: Domino DF500 & DF700 XL conflicting scale types
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2018, 11:25 AM »
I appreciate that this issue came up because I acquired the 700XL after using the DF500 for awhile. Since I haven't used the 700 all that much and set the height to match a specific height in a project, I didn't even realize that the gauge on the 700  that looks like the DF500 board thickness gauge is merely a height stop on the 700. I'll have to put a note in the 700XL systainer so that I remember this the next time I use the 700. Very confusing when you don't use a tool everyday.
Randy

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Domino DF500 & DF700 XL conflicting scale types
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2018, 05:25 PM »
Yeah, I remember the first time I noticed that and thought it was weird as well. 
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Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2360
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Domino DF500 & DF700 XL conflicting scale types
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2018, 06:14 PM »
I have both Domino units and never really relied on the fence height scales. I just set the fence height by placing the board up against the fence and adjusting the height by eye to about mid board thickness. Crude, but it works. I do double check mortise depth especially if I’m cutting across a board as in building a drawer.
Birdhunter

Offline Doug S

  • Posts: 394
Re: Domino DF500 & DF700 XL conflicting scale types
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2018, 06:57 PM »
I find it annoying, I prefer how the 500 works but maybe that's because I got it first. For me it makes the 500 quicker to set.

Since the 700 is newer I guess Festool had a rethink and thought the 700 is better way of doing it, don't know why, it just confuses things if you have both.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1019
Re: Domino DF500 & DF700 XL conflicting scale types
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2018, 07:31 AM »
Since the 700 is newer I guess Festool had a rethink and thought the 700 is better way of doing it
I think the depth stop on the 700 is more sane as it shows height of the fence (when used) as the offset of the mortice to the reference edge.

On the 500 they have two different numbers for the same measurement (real number on the fence and twice that on the depth stop) which dosn't make sense to me and is confusing. IMHO they should replace the depth stop on the 500 with one that lists the actual fence height - people using a domino should generally be able to divide the thickness of their workpiece by two should they want to align a mortice in the middle of it...

Offline rmhinden

  • Posts: 74
Re: Domino DF500 & DF700 XL conflicting scale types
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2018, 11:13 AM »
I agree.  Having two different numbers for the same measurement on the 500 makes little sense. 


On the 500 they have two different numbers for the same measurement (real number on the fence and twice that on the depth stop) which dosn't make sense to me and is confusing. IMHO they should replace the depth stop on the 500 with one that lists the actual fence height - people using a domino should generally be able to divide the thickness of their workpiece by two should they want to align a mortice in the middle of it...
Bob

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3573
Re: Domino DF500 & DF700 XL conflicting scale types
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2018, 12:16 PM »
Finally, I understand what the op was talking about.

I’ve never used the sliding step thing on either machine. I’m never in that much of a hurry that it’s useful and if I need precision it’s not good enough.

Offline Doug S

  • Posts: 394
Re: Domino DF500 & DF700 XL conflicting scale types
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2018, 01:25 PM »

I’ve never used the sliding step thing on either machine. I’m never in that much of a hurry that it’s useful and if I need precision it’s not good enough.

I always find it interesting how people do things differently, I use the sliding step whenever possible, I like the repeatability it gives me if I am switching between settings.

Sometimes I use a packer on the steps, for example there is no setting on the step for centring DF500 in 18 mm material so I set it for 16 mm and put a 1 mm packer on top of step and then it's centred in the 18 mm (or near enough as long as you always work from the same face).

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1019
Re: Domino DF500 & DF700 XL conflicting scale types
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2018, 02:22 PM »
as long as you always work from the same face.
That what one should always do with the domino, anyway.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 635
Re: Domino DF500 & DF700 XL conflicting scale types
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2018, 02:46 PM »
I just set the fence height by placing the board up against the fence and adjusting the height by eye to about mid board thickness. Crude, but it works.

I set the fence height by using the thickness gauge or the height gauge, but always double check it by sticking out the cutter against the edge/end of the board to be mortised. Any error, like the one reported by the OP, would be caught. The same is done for checking the cutting depth when mortising the face. The verification step by sticking out the cutter has virtually avoided all blunders that I made in the early days.

Offline sdes

  • Posts: 21
Re: Domino DF500 & DF700 XL conflicting scale types
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2018, 05:03 AM »
Thanks for all the responses, and sort of glad to see it has caused confusion for some if not all other users.

No convincing explanation why Festool choose two different methods for one tool type. Perhaps just a case of "nanny knows best" and we just have to accept Festool must know what they are doing, because, well, they are Festool, and usually do.