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Author Topic: Domino Mortise is too narrow  (Read 11860 times)

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Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1423
Domino Mortise is too narrow
« on: June 29, 2017, 01:48 PM »
Your Feedback will be appreciated.

This is an update from my "Zero Response" thread and it now deals with the actual problem I am experiencing with my DF500.  The mortises that the machine bores are too narrow for a stock domino.  As in a lot too narrow.  I have to trim the dominos with a block plane for it to fit in the mortise  (Without significant hammering).  As, such,I sent my machine in for repair.   I got it back after a couple weeks.  The problem is still there.  They provided a list of parts they replaced but there wasn't a write up of what they did or why my machine does what it does. I called service and Bret couldn't provide much info.  He thought it might be the bit but it happens on all bits.  I mostly use 5mm and it seems to be more sensitive.  I have a second 5mm bit and it does the same thing.

It's been doing this since I purchased the machine two years ago.  I've been putting up with it thinking it might be n normal.  Now I'm building quite a few cabinets and I am tired of shaving every domino.  This can't be right.....and at some point I am sure to slip and plane my finger.

To demonstrate the problem I made a video.  I'd like to see if this is normal.  Keep in mind I am using very soft pine in the video.  There is no way to get a "stock" domino into Oak or plywood without causing a lot of damage. 
Many thanks
Luke

« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 02:01 PM by iamnothim »
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline bdiemer

  • Posts: 191
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2017, 02:09 PM »
I live on the great south bay ,Long Island. All my dominoes are swollen and require minor adaption,with sandpaper. Try a domino right out of the plastic.

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1423
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2017, 02:11 PM »
I'm in dry Southern California.  The dominos are very new.
Also, I'd be sanding a long time before they would fit.  Hence the block plane
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Offline Distinctive Interiors

  • Posts: 288
  • Modern Kitchen Specialist
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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2017, 02:23 PM »
All the domino slots that I have cut in solid timber with my DF500 are a tight fit in their respective holes. I certainly can't push them in or pull them out of their holes without the use of pliers. MDF or particle boards are a bit softer so are less of a tight fit.

I keep all my dominos in a Systainer with a couple of little bags of Silica. This keeps the moisture content down.

I mainly use the 4mm,5mm and 6mm cutters/dominos so I can't vouch for the 8mm or 10mm slots width.

Have you tried a fresh batch of dominos, just to be certain that its not your own dominos themselves that are causing the issue..?

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1423
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2017, 02:27 PM »
Thanks for the post.

I too mostly use 5mm.  They are very fresh. They don't hang around long and this has been going on for 2 years.
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Offline drax

  • Posts: 35
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2017, 02:49 PM »
Iamnothim, you can determine for definite if it's your machine or the dominos by measuring accurately the width of the slot with callipers or a rule etc then compare with another fog 500 owner the width. I won't have access to mine until next week unfortunately so can't help there.

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1423
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2017, 02:53 PM »
The mortises are 17.25mm wide
The Dominos are 18.8mm wide
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Offline justaguy

  • Posts: 114
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2017, 02:57 PM »
I think I see the holder for the bit assortment on your bench. Have you tried the other size bits and is the problem consistent with each size?

Sorry I left the edit window open for a while. I now see from later responses that you have tried the other bits.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 03:33 PM by justaguy »

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1423
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2017, 03:00 PM »
It's all good!
Thanks
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Offline RobNJ

  • Posts: 154
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2017, 03:01 PM »
Is the domino width including the ridges on the sides?  I always wind up planing or sanding the ridges away -- though never have have to go more than the small ridge.  Also, it's my standard procedure to throw the Dominos in the microwave for 25 seconds.  Even in the bone dry winter (my shop is in a heated basement) a significant amount of water is left in the bowl post microwave.  The dominos fit much more easily post a quick zap.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3338
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2017, 03:06 PM »
You got me curious so I plunged some 5mm mortises and measure between 18.4-18.5mm on the mortises.  Yours seems to be 1 mm too narrow.

The mortises are 17.25mm wide
The Dominos are 18.8mm wide
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1423
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2017, 03:08 PM »
You got me curious so I plunged some 5mm mortises and measure between 18.4-18.5mm on the mortises.  Yours seems to be 1 mm too narrow.

The mortises are 17.25mm wide
The Dominos are 18.8mm wide

Great information !
Thanks

I also tried two different 5mm bits
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Offline hopper

  • Posts: 108
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2017, 03:34 PM »
I know this is a band-aid fix but try putting a small shim type washer between the bit and bit holder where it threads on. this would make the bit slightly longer consequently making the mortise wider

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1423
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2017, 04:31 PM »
The tool is at UPS on its way to Indiana
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3338
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2017, 04:59 PM »
That's the right move.  I would even flag @TylerC and have him give service a heads up to let them know this is the second time your unit is going in for the same problem, and that you have conferred with other Domino users to establish that it's a genuine issue, and not simply your imagining or misuse.


The tool is at UPS on its way to Indiana
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline TylerC

  • Festool USA Employee
    FOG Administrator
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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2017, 05:03 PM »
That's the right move.  I would even flag @TylerC and have him give service a heads up to let them know this is the second time your unit is going in for the same problem, and that you have conferred with other Domino users to establish that it's a genuine issue, and not simply your imagining or misuse.


The tool is at UPS on its way to Indiana

Yes. I'll send this thread over to the service team. I'll send it to a few other folks internally. Honestly, I'm a bit beyond my depth on this one.

Offline daveg

  • Posts: 55
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2017, 12:51 PM »
I've always had this problem (since my DF500 was new). The domino size and season don't seem to make much difference. I assumed it was by Festool's design to have a very tight fit for alignment purposes. However, I find it very inconvenient for doing dry fit tests before I glue up. In those situations, I use the block plane on the edges like you or I put the dominos in a drying box (foam insulation with a light bulb for heat).

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1423
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2017, 01:22 PM »
I've always had this problem (since my DF500 was new). The domino size and season don't seem to make much difference. I assumed it was by Festool's design to have a very tight fit for alignment purposes. However, I find it very inconvenient for doing dry fit tests before I glue up. In those situations, I use the block plane on the edges like you or I put the dominos in a drying box (foam insulation with a light bulb for heat).

Dave,
It's reassuring that someone else has experienced this problem.   It's very annoying and time consuming. I don't think a production  shop would put up with this.  We shouldn't have to go through these steps either.  It's very dangerous trimming a tiny domino in your fingers on a block plane, yet I've shaved hundreds without giving blood.

My video is with pine.  I should have used oak.  I don't think I could insert a stock domino using a hammer.  I haven't tried for years, I've just plane the dominos as a procedure.  I'll be sure to post the verdict.

Thanks for posting,

Luke
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline Distinctive Interiors

  • Posts: 288
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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2017, 01:38 PM »
I measured my 5mm dominos today. Width was between 19.05mm to 19.12mm. I measured about 20 odd just to get an average size. All measurements were taken with a digital Vernier gauge.
I didn't have time to do a trial slot in some scrap...been busy with designs all day!
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 01:40 PM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1423
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2017, 01:41 PM »
@Distinctive Interiors

That's very wide.
Thanks for thinking about me.
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Offline tjskinny

  • Posts: 67
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2017, 04:39 PM »
I just downloaded the Domino ebook

https://www.festoolusa.com/knowledge/downloads#Magalogs

And this is what it stated under Domino mortise width selection:

DF 500
1 The standard width, corresponding exactly to the domino width: 13 mm plus the cutter diameter
2 The average mortise width, giving the domino some clear- ance (6 mm): 19 mm plus the cutter diameter
3 The largest mortise width, providing a lot of clearance (10 mm): 23 mm plus the cutter diameter

DF 700
1 The standard width for precise routing is: 13.5 mm plus the cutter diameter
2 The mortise width with clearance (3 mm) corresponds to: 16.5 mm plus the cutter diameter


As with some of the others experience, all the domino slots that I have cut in solid wood and plywood with my DF500 are a tight fit in their respective holes. I can't push them in or pull them out of their holes without the use of pliers.





Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1939
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2017, 10:16 PM »
Luke,

Any chance you are over tightening the bit?  I usually just hand tighten, and it will firm up as it spins. The other thing is that you might have a manufacturing defect. If there are too many threads on the shaft or the shaft is just slightly short, it would cause a slightly less-wide domi-hole.

Let us know what they come back with. Next time I am in Orange or LA, I will let you know. I will be in Mountain View next week for a few days, but that is a little hike!

Where is Elon on that tube of his?!?!?

Cheers. Bryan.


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People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1728
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2017, 04:44 PM »
I certainly agree the Dominos themselves are a tight fit. However, I can almost always push them into the slot halfway without using a mallet and, if not, then a couple of passes over rough sandpaper does. I've never even thought of using a block plane. Summers in Illinois are almost always humid and I don't seem to have more trouble during summer than winter (although I do keep the humidity in my basement shop between 50% - 60% in summer.

I assume that, over the life of your Domino, you have purchased more than one batch of Dominos. If not, is it possible that the bag of Dominos you got was not up to spec (or that the tolerance of Festool specs is not so precise as to allow some batches to be just enough to large they don't seem to fit)?
Randy

Offline waterloomarc

  • Posts: 105
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2017, 10:16 PM »
I too always have to shave my dominos down in order to get them to fit. It's annoying but frankly I just thought it was the nature of the beast. I have to do it for all sizes as well. I will go measure my dominos and slots on Monday and see what I've got.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3585
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2017, 09:53 AM »

And this is what it stated under Domino mortise width selection in their ebook:

DF 500
1 The standard width, corresponding exactly to the domino width: 13 mm plus the cutter diameter

DF 700
1 The standard width for precise routing is: 13.5 mm plus the cutter diameter


It's interesting to note that the 700 was designed from the git-go to cut a wider mortise than the 500. So it could also be interesting to cut #8 & #10 mortises with both a 500 and a 700 and compare the fit with the same Domino.

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1423
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2017, 10:52 AM »
Thanks to everyone for relating your experiences, and providing ideas.
The difference between the mortise width and a 5mm Domino width is 1.55mm
Doesn't sound like a lot but it is.  Even on soft wood they won't go in without pliers or a mallet and the Mortise will be damaged.  The the tenon must be shaved. On oak, cherry, or plywood. It just can't be done with a mallet or pliers.  You'd  smash your finger with the mallet. A  total mess. 1mm or so must be removed and sandpaper would take a long time.  Believe me if I didn't have to pull a Domino down the sole of a block plane with my thumb and index finger I wouldn't.  Two years without blood but it's just a matter of time.
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1975
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2017, 12:36 PM »
Please let us know what the repair people find when you get the unit back.
Birdhunter

Offline Kevin W.

  • Posts: 7
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2017, 12:55 PM »
Definately keep us posted, I hope you get this traightened out!

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 577
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2017, 03:07 PM »
Thanks to everyone for relating your experiences, and providing ideas.
The difference between the mortise width and a 5mm Domino width is 1.55mm
Doesn't sound like a lot but it is.  Even on soft wood they won't go in without pliers or a mallet and the Mortise will be damaged.  The the tenon must be shaved. On oak, cherry, or plywood. It just can't be done with a mallet or pliers.  You'd  smash your finger with the mallet. A  total mess. 1mm or so must be removed and sandpaper would take a long time.  Believe me if I didn't have to pull a Domino down the sole of a block plane with my thumb and index finger I wouldn't.  Two years without blood but it's just a matter of time.

A simple jig would reduce the chance of flaying your finger.  I've made a couple for trimming them to length.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3338
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2017, 03:16 PM »
But that would take all the dangerous fun out of it.

Thanks to everyone for relating your experiences, and providing ideas.
The difference between the mortise width and a 5mm Domino width is 1.55mm
Doesn't sound like a lot but it is.  Even on soft wood they won't go in without pliers or a mallet and the Mortise will be damaged.  The the tenon must be shaved. On oak, cherry, or plywood. It just can't be done with a mallet or pliers.  You'd  smash your finger with the mallet. A  total mess. 1mm or so must be removed and sandpaper would take a long time.  Believe me if I didn't have to pull a Domino down the sole of a block plane with my thumb and index finger I wouldn't.  Two years without blood but it's just a matter of time.

A simple jig would reduce the chance of flaying your finger.  I've made a couple for trimming them to length.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1423
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2017, 03:22 PM »
Still no box from UPS. .... I'll keep y'all posted. 
I am far too impatient to build jigs (except for a shooting board).  I think about making them then I figure out how to spend 4x time on the task without one.   It's weird I lack the vision.
I really should make some Fine Woodworking jigs.
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3338
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2017, 03:47 PM »
Speaking of which, I have coming in the mail this book that was recommended to me: Robert Wearing, "Making Woodwork Aids & Devices"

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1861081294/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



Still no box from UPS. .... I'll keep y'all posted. 
I am far too impatient to build jigs (except for a shooting board).  I think about making them then I figure out how to spend 4x time on the task without one.   It's weird I lack the vision.
I really should make some Fine Woodworking jigs.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1423
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2017, 04:03 PM »
Speaking of which, I have coming in the mail this book that was recommended to me: Robert Wearing, "Making Woodwork Aids & Devices"

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1861081294/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Way Cool!  thanks


Still no box from UPS. .... I'll keep y'all posted. 
I am far too impatient to build jigs (except for a shooting board).  I think about making them then I figure out how to spend 4x time on the task without one.   It's weird I lack the vision.
I really should make some Fine Woodworking jigs.
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1423
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2017, 01:35 PM »
Update
No Box
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1423
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2017, 12:14 PM »
News Flash
I called Festool Repair.
Brett said they are waiting on a part to arrive from Germany and they should have it the first part of next week.

I kept my composure during the call.

My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1975
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2017, 05:38 PM »
Thanks for the update.
Birdhunter

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1423
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2017, 04:51 PM »
My Domino is either on it's way or still being repaired

I called for status.  After a few minutes on hold it went to voicemail. Do I know nothing.

I went to the repair ticket email and clicked the link to check the repair status.  The link was broken.  I got a 404 page.   This is so unprofessional.  I need the tool.  it's been over 6 weeks
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline copcarcollector

  • Posts: 1361
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2017, 05:27 PM »
It seems that certain business aspects are falling apart out there in Indiana....  [sad]
@TylerC , I think Tyler is on vacation but maybe he can get someone to check for you...

I would consider just buying a new machine, use the crap out of it for 29 days, then return it. Maybe in that timeframe your original machine will be back from HQ

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1164
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2017, 05:29 PM »
Maybe I am giving him too much credit, but it seems that things have not been the same at the USA Festool HQ since Shane left.  He was always on top of things here on the forum and worked well with the team at the USA repair facility.  I just do not remember these kind of issues when he still worked for Festool, even though he lives hundreds of miles away in a different state.

Offline iamnothim

  • Posts: 1423
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2017, 05:50 PM »
It seems that certain business aspects are falling apart out there in Indiana....  [sad]
@TylerC , I think Tyler is on vacation but maybe he can get someone to check for you...

I would consider just buying a new machine, use the crap out of it for 29 days, then return it. Maybe in that timeframe your original machine will be back from HQ
Great idea
Should have done that a month ago
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline TylerC

  • Festool USA Employee
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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2017, 08:02 PM »
It seems that certain business aspects are falling apart out there in Indiana....  [sad]
@TylerC , I think Tyler is on vacation but maybe he can get someone to check for you...

I would consider just buying a new machine, use the crap out of it for 29 days, then return it. Maybe in that timeframe your original machine will be back from HQ
Great idea
Should have done that a month ago

Yes, I'm out this week (and was traveling last week), but I'll reach out to the service department and see if I can get a more thorough update (and hopefully some progress). I'm checking email once a day, so let me know if there's any movement or needs with this.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 208
Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2017, 10:52 PM »
It seems that certain business aspects are falling apart out there in Indiana....  [sad]

I would consider just buying a new machine, use the crap out of it for 29 days, then return it. Maybe in that timeframe your original machine will be back from HQ
Great idea
Should have done that a month ago

Perhaps, Festool should look into making a limited # of spare tools available for owners to use (like those courtesy loaned cars). They may have refurnished units that can be used for that purpose.

Anything out for a month is horrible; Festool should be more proactive not only in keeping you posted of the progress, but also in offering a tool to use in the interim.

I hope SawStop will remain independent of Festool and maintain its own service dept. as I have not heard of any service disappointments like those seen in this forum.

While I have had no machine breakdowns with any of my Festool machines, I have decided not to buy any more of the Festool power tools, because I place a lot of value on after-sales service, and I want to limit my exposure to unhappy service encounters like many of those reported in this Forum.

I must also point out that it is a fire-fighting symptom when issues get quickly and satisfactorily settled after the involvement of a Festool rep. or someone with inside connection to Festool from the Forum. What happens is that given the same amount of resources, the service team will prioritize and work on those "urgent" cases referred to them and push back other people's service orders.

That can be a very obvious sign of trouble in the service dept. on more than one front. Usually that happens when a small company grows too big and too quickly, or because of a shortage of people with the necessary skills, or due to a dysfunctional communication system that can't handle the workload, or a combination of them.

As I see it, it is not just a service dept. issue; it is a senior management issue and it should receive the dedicated attention of someone on the executive floor to get to the root of the problem which may cover more than one department or division (customer service, repair service, parts, etc.).
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 11:07 PM by ChuckM »

Online Peter Parfitt

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2017, 02:12 AM »
Has anyone asked if there is a possibility that the tip of the cutter may be missing?

This demo, by Frank Jaksch, shows how the Domino cutting action works.



Peter

Offline NL-mikkla

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2017, 03:58 AM »
iamnothim said it was ever since he got the machine and that he has 2 x 5mm cutter, both with the same result.
Sound unlikely that this missing tip is the problem.

FYI, my dominos are always been a super tight fit, so therefor a test fit is impossible and I never do that.
I don't experience any problem with that and have enough mortises under my belt to do it right the first time and really don't need test fit


Online Peter Parfitt

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2017, 04:34 AM »
iamnothim said it was ever since he got the machine and that he has 2 x 5mm cutter, both with the same result.
Sound unlikely that this missing tip is the problem.

FYI, my dominos are always been a super tight fit, so therefor a test fit is impossible and I never do that.
I don't experience any problem with that and have enough mortises under my belt to do it right the first time and really don't need test fit

Thanks for updating me on his two x 5 mm cutters.

I keep about 4 dominos of each size which have been sanded slightly to make then an easier fit. I use these for dry test fits. Like you, my dominos are always quite tight in the holes. I can only get them in about 5 mm by hand.

Peter

Offline NL-mikkla

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #45 on: July 27, 2017, 06:33 AM »
Thanks Peter!
Good tip about the few altered dominos, will look into that if this is working for me.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #46 on: July 27, 2017, 09:24 AM »
For a less tight fit of the dominoes, I microwave them before dry fitting or final assembly. Place them on a coffee filter and after the microwave step (about 10 to 20 secs depending on the no. Of Dominies),  from the paper, you can get an idea of how much moisture is removed.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 09:28 AM by ChuckM »

Offline iamnothim

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2017, 12:50 PM »
Festool repair returned my call.  They received the part.  The machine should be repaired and shipped today
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline iamnothim

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #48 on: July 30, 2017, 12:13 PM »
I have no idea if my Domino has been repaired and shipped because Festool has not tried to contact me.  As I stated in an earlier a post the "Log Into Your Account" link is broken.  This is pathetic. Don't they know their web site is broken?  I would think so.  Why do they include a broken link or failed system in their email?   They can't provide as a  courtesy the return tracking number.

There are companies far smaller than Festool that have robust working customer status systems.  Here's the RMA email I was sent.....

« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 12:16 PM by iamnothim »
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #49 on: July 30, 2017, 12:55 PM »
Tool out for a month, communication breakdown... from what is supposed to be a top-end tool company.

I can feel your frustrations. And you have my sympathy.

Offline justaguy

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2017, 02:45 PM »
I really like my Festool products.

However, recent experience with parts ordering, customer service, and the web site are disappointing. For me it seems. it all started right at the end of 2016 start of 2017 with the computer systems upgrades. I called to order a part and they asked me to call back "in a couple of weeks".

The web site "upgrade" should be viewed as an embarrassment.  I work in IT. If I posted new code to a customers web site and broke user logon, purchase history, repair tracking and told people we would have those functions back in 3 or 4 months my customers would terminate their contract for non-performance. Those customers would be right to do so.



I have no idea if my Domino has been repaired and shipped because Festool has not tried to contact me.  As I stated in an earlier a post the "Log Into Your Account" link is broken.  This is pathetic. Don't they know their web site is broken?  I would think so.  Why do they include a broken link or failed system in their email?   They can't provide as a  courtesy the return tracking number.

There are companies far smaller than Festool that have robust working customer status systems.  Here's the RMA email I was sent.....

(Attachment Link)
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 02:52 PM by justaguy »

Offline Gregor

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2017, 03:05 PM »
I work in IT. If I posted new code to a customers web site and broke user logon, purchase history, repair tracking and told people we would have those functions back in 3 or 4 months my customers would terminate their contract for non-performance. Those customers would be right to do so.
Same here, plus the customers would sue me into oblivion for damages (and would rightfully win).

Offline TylerC

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2017, 01:47 PM »
The link on the email notification was removed this morning. Another hiccup of all of the recent changes.

While we don't publicly discuss individual service claims, our service team has been working @iamnothim offline about his DF 500.

Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #53 on: August 01, 2017, 03:43 PM »
Without violating Festool policy, is there a way to relate what the problem turned out to be?
Birdhunter

Offline iamnothim

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #54 on: August 04, 2017, 10:14 AM »
The machine arrived yesterday.

It's perfect.  I'm pleased with the result.
I inserted a 5mm domino into oak end grain with my fingers. 

Also, I went to the Festool Road Show yesterday and got a demo of a 500series machine with a 5mm bit. I could insert the domino with my fingers.  That one was a tad more snug than mine. 
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline Distinctive Interiors

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #55 on: August 04, 2017, 11:38 AM »
So,.....Does that mean that anyone with a DF500 using a 5mm cutter in it, and its cutting tight domino slots, that their machine is faulty...??? I have always assumed that they were supposed to be that tight fit..??

I will get my Festool End User Manager to take a look at mine the next time he comes to see me and show him this thread...!

Offline NL-mikkla

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #56 on: August 04, 2017, 11:55 AM »
There's a difference between a tight fit or what iamnothim discussed.
It was impossible to get a domino in the wood and when forced the wood was damaged.
Don't panic here...

Offline iamnothim

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #57 on: August 04, 2017, 11:56 AM »
So,.....Does that mean that anyone with a DF500 using a 5mm cutter in it, and its cutting tight domino slots, that their machine is faulty...??? I have always assumed that they were supposed to be that tight fit..??

I will get my Festool End User Manager to take a look at mine the next time he comes to see me and show him this thread...!

I would say yes, your machine is out of spec. I think that the spec number is in the manual.  I have not measured mine. Yet.   
I'd also say if it's a nuisance send it in.  Mine now behaves exactly like the DF500 in the Road Show.  Night and day!
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline iamnothim

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #58 on: August 04, 2017, 11:57 AM »
There's a difference between a tight fit or what iamnothim discussed.
It was impossible to get a domino in the wood and when forced the wood was damaged.
Don't panic here...

Agreed
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #59 on: August 04, 2017, 02:27 PM »
So,.....Does that mean that anyone with a DF500 using a 5mm cutter in it, and its cutting tight domino slots, that their machine is faulty...??? I have always assumed that they were supposed to be that tight fit..??


In the narrowest setting, the fit should be tight with no play for dead-on alignment purposes. How tight? It depends on your humidity conditions. In dry days, I can remove them with finger grips; otherwise, I may need the help of a pair of pliers. Of course, your muscle strength is another factor.

All this to say unless the fit is too loose or too tight that the insertion would damage the wood (or the domino), you should be fine. Regardless, I always microwave the dominoes before the glue-up (the dominoes also swell when you apply glue to them).

Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #60 on: August 04, 2017, 02:28 PM »
Any info on what part was replaced?
Birdhunter

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Offline grbmds

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #61 on: August 04, 2017, 03:57 PM »
The Dominos must fit very snugly. That is the design. Just because there are some 500's out there that might not be right, doesn't mean they all are. Having used the 500 for awhile, I appreciate the fact that the dominos fit into the slot tightly so that the alignment is always dead-on. If that means I need to scrape a ridge off the edges when humidity is higher, then it's worth it for the result. We shouldn't all suddenly feel our 500's are faulty just because the domino fits tightly in the hole. The subject of this post is an excessively tight fitting domino; one that you have difficulty even forcing into the slot.
Randy

Offline iamnothim

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #62 on: August 04, 2017, 05:19 PM »
@grbmds
You are correct.  This was just a defective unit.   It works great now.
I'm in Southern California so I don't have moisture issues. 

I think there are one or two members that have a similar problem.  I'd recommend sending the unit in for repair.  I'll dig up the receipt and post it.  Thanks to all for your support.
My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #63 on: August 04, 2017, 06:32 PM »
I have both the 500 and the 700. I have to tap in the tenons with both units and with various sizes. I have to use pliers to remove the tenons.
Birdhunter

Offline DB10

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #64 on: August 04, 2017, 07:59 PM »
I have both the 500 and the 700. I have to tap in the tenons with both units and with various sizes. I have to use pliers to remove the tenons.
That is a firm fit and that's the same as mine, It's how I like the machine to be.

Offline sac3848

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #65 on: August 04, 2017, 08:57 PM »
use sandpaper on the narrow edges

Offline iamnothim

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #66 on: August 21, 2017, 01:16 PM »
I am delighted with the repair.   The dominos are quite tight as to where you can insert them with your fingers with mild pain.  Pliers are required for extraction.
Here's the parts that were installed the second time.

My reputation pre-deceases me.

Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #67 on: August 21, 2017, 01:59 PM »
Great outcome. Thanks for the update.
Birdhunter

Online Peter Parfitt

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #68 on: August 21, 2017, 02:27 PM »
@iamnothim

I think that this illustrates that a cool, calm and almost inquisitive approach to a problem is far better than a pugilistic one. Well done for taking the sensible route and letting Festool handle the issue.

I am glad that everything is sorted out and that your lovely Domino is now in fine shape.

Peter

Offline Dick Mahany

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #69 on: August 21, 2017, 09:51 PM »
Excellent outcome.  I'm surprised to see that 5 parts were replaced, but it gives me some needed confidence in Festool Service after reading a few other threads that had shaken my confidence.

My DF500 was an absolute game changer for me and enabled new ways to improve my methods (after 40 years ).  Thanks for posting the follow up and now go and have fun with a truly innovative tool.

Offline LDBecker

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Re: Domino Mortise is too narrow
« Reply #70 on: August 31, 2017, 01:39 PM »
My DF 500 was making odd-sized mortises and was breaking bits - I had somehow damaged the mechanism that changes the width of the mortise - I guess you need to change it only when the tool is running. Festool fixed mine for free - two years out of warranty. Hard not to be impressed with that!