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Author Topic: Domino Plate threaded holes  (Read 4465 times)

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Offline lunchman

  • Posts: 77
Domino Plate threaded holes
« on: October 10, 2015, 11:31 AM »
Hello all.  I noticed this morning when I was attaching the Domiplate to my DF500 that it wasn't sitting flat on the sole plate. When I removed the thumbscrews holding the Domiplate in place, I noticed that something had backed out of the threaded hole on the Domino plate. It's a small spring that appears to provide the threading for the holes.

Question is: how do I get this back into the plate? Does it screw back in? Or should I try to tap it back into place?

-Dom

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Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 537
Re: Domino Plate threaded holes
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2015, 12:29 PM »
It sounds like a Helicoil.  It should be screwed, not tapped, back in.

It bad news is they're normally installed using a tool to wind the spring tighter.  You may be able to improvise.

Good luck!

Andrew
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3709
Re: Domino Plate threaded holes
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2015, 12:56 PM »
That's not good...I'd just send it in to Festool for replacement.

I've installed hundreds of Helicoils in motorcycles because of needing a durable thread in aluminum castings. As @Roseland said, these are installed on a "winder" which reduces the od of the insert and allows it to be screwed into the tapped hole. Once in the tapped hole, the winder is reversed, the Helicoil expands and a tang on the bottom of the Helicoil is broken off and it contacts the inside wall of the threaded hole and becomes the anchor for the Helicoil.

I have on occasion experienced the same thing on a motorcycle. If you can get a pliers on a part of the piece that projects from the hole, you can carefully uncoil/unwind (not unscrew) the insert and not damage the internal threads, however then you'll have to install a replacement Helicoil which they sell in quantities of 10 each and you also have to purchase a winding tool for installation.

So you're probably looking at $50 in parts...that's the reason I recommend sending it to Festool.

Offline lunchman

  • Posts: 77
Re: Domino Plate threaded holes
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2015, 01:51 PM »
Thanks, guys. Looking at helicoil insertion videos on youtube showed the normal method of inserting these with the break-off tang. I can grab it with needle-nose pliers and screw it in part way but can't get it to go any further. If I could somehow duplicate the tang by securing the helicoil to the thumbscrew and screwing it in as a single piece.....  If the Domiplate knobs weren't so large I could perhaps work from the other side and pull it through. I don't have any metric equivalents on hand to give this a try.

I guess in the meantime I'll use the Domino fence rather than the Domiplate.

Kind of an odd setup for Festool to use on the Domino plate - helicoils.

I've always had to finesse the Domiplate into position - as if the holes were off by just a little bit.

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3204
Re: Domino Plate threaded holes
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2015, 02:14 PM »




Kind of an odd setup for Festool to use on the Domino plate - helicoils.

Festool don't make the Domiplate its an aftermarket add on that Seneca make.

Offline lunchman

  • Posts: 77
Re: Domino Plate threaded holes
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2015, 02:22 PM »




Kind of an odd setup for Festool to use on the Domino plate - helicoils.

Festool don't make the Domiplate its an aftermarket add on that Seneca make.

The helicoils aren't in the Domiplate. They're in the sole plate of the Domino itself. I was somewhat surprised by this when I took a close look at the holes.

-Dom

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Domino Plate threaded holes
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2015, 03:14 PM »




Kind of an odd setup for Festool to use on the Domino plate - helicoils.

Festool don't make the Domiplate its an aftermarket add on that Seneca make.

Think he means what he said fella. Domino plate vs Domiplate.
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3204
Re: Domino Plate threaded holes
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2015, 03:15 PM »




Kind of an odd setup for Festool to use on the Domino plate - helicoils.

Festool don't make the Domiplate its an aftermarket add on that Seneca make.

Think he means what he said fella. Domino plate vs Domiplate.
Lol its been a long day :)

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3709
Re: Domino Plate threaded holes
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2015, 04:42 PM »

Kind of an odd setup for Festool to use on the Domino plate - helicoils.


Actually, it's not odd but rather the perfect application for a Helicoil. The Domino base plate is either an aluminum alloy or a zinc alloy and quite thin. A Helicoil is stainless and will provide excellent screw retention for the life of the Domino.

Had Festool not installed Helicoils, the base plate would probably be trash after inserting and removing the screws 50-75 times. Each time the screw is torqued down the thread form in the base plate is being distorted a little bit. If it's just a soft alloy material, it distorts, distorts, distorts and then finally just strips out.



Offline NL-mikkla

  • Posts: 216
  • www.m144h.com
Re: Domino Plate threaded holes
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2015, 05:24 PM »
Right on cheese, it's exactly like that.
We used to glue in the helicoils with locktite 'red', super reliable.
 

Offline lunchman

  • Posts: 77
Re: Domino Plate threaded holes
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2015, 05:24 PM »
Your explanation makes perfect sense re: the material used in the Domino plate.

Thanks to all on the helicoil lesson. The problem is resolved. I went down to my local Consumers Auto Parts store and purchased a helicoil insertion kit - worked like a charm and I'm back in business. The size for these is M5. And if it ever happens again, I've got enough helicoils to last me a good long time.  [smile]

Back to cabinet making for me.

-Dom
« Last Edit: October 10, 2015, 08:21 PM by lunchman »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3709
Re: Domino Plate threaded holes
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2015, 06:51 PM »
Thanks to all on the helicoil lesson. The problem is resolved. I went down to my local Consumers Auto Parts store and purchased a helicoil insertion kit - worked like a charm and I'm back in business. The size for these is 5M. And if it ever happens again, I've got enough helicoils to last me a good long time.

-Dom

Thanks for the feedback on the insert size Dom...that's good to know.

I'm glad you were able to resolve the issue yourself. I never know the skill level of the individual I'm trying to help, so I'm glad you took on the task and brought it to successful fruition. My neighbor is one of these guys that always wants to fix things but only succeeds in making things worse. His desire is in the right place, but his skill set is somewhere in left field.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3709
Re: Domino Plate threaded holes
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2015, 07:07 PM »

We used to glue in the helicoils with locktite 'red', super reliable.
 

Never heard that one before, but that's a pretty slick idea...considering all of the surface area involved.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1989
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Domino Plate threaded holes
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2017, 12:24 PM »
I watched a couple of videos on the helicoils. Very neat!

Could they work in wood?
Birdhunter

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3709
Re: Domino Plate threaded holes
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2017, 01:23 PM »
I watched a couple of videos on the helicoils. Very neat!

Could they work in wood?

That's an interesting idea...they probably could if you epoxied them in place.  [big grin]  This could make for a very interesting application.

These inserts are usually used instead because they're readily available and certainly cheaper than Helicoils.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3402
Re: Domino Plate threaded holes
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2017, 01:49 PM »
It would have been interesting to find out if Festool would have honored the warranty given that it manifested during use of an aftermarket accessory.
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Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 383
Re: Domino Plate threaded holes
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2017, 01:54 PM »
I watched a couple of videos on the helicoils. Very neat!

Could they work in wood?

I don't think they would. At least not in softer woods. The coil needs some resistance to function.
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

TS55 · TS55R · OF1010 · DF500 Mk2 · MFT/3 + VL + CMS TS55 + CMS PS300 + LA-CS 70/CMS · CTL Midi · RTS400 EQ · 2 x CXS Li 1,5 · T15+3 Li 4,2 · TI15 Impact Li 4,2 · Centrotec Sets 2008 + 2015 · PSB300 · LR32-SYS · RO150 · Kapex KS120 · 2 x MFK700 · RO90 · OFK700 · BS75 · OFK500 … | Mirka 1230L P&C | Hammer A3 31 Silent Power · Hammer N4400 

Offline Picktool

  • Posts: 118
Re: Domino Plate threaded holes
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2017, 02:13 PM »
I watched a couple of videos on the helicoils. Very neat!

Could they work in wood?

That's an interesting idea...they probably could if you epoxied them in place.  [big grin]  This could make for a very interesting application.

These inserts are usually used instead because they're readily available and certainly cheaper than Helicoils.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-threaded-inserts/=19ycws4
Well Dogey